why did the wtc's collapse? conclusive proof

[Larry Pubes]

hold on, ajax was IRAN dude, not american terrorism on american soil. big difference. *what's more, it's no secret.* i'm not arguing with you over whether or not the US is a terrorist state, or has engaged in state terrorism and all sorts of other shifty shit. you're asserting that the US govt engineered and perpetrated a massive terror plot against it's own citizens. the fact that states have engaged in terror against other states historically doesn't prove a thing in relation to your 9/11 claims.

.mil and .gov links are, when i've asked for specifics, few and far between dude. in fact i don't think you've posted a single .mil or .gov link related to anything that i have specifically asked for. nor have you posted those links to support any specific claims you've made in this thread. your 'evidence' from the rare .mil or .gov link you provide is always disparate bits of information that you later conveniently shamble together as 'proof' and 'evidence' to support your claims of 9/11. your logic seems to go like this: x govt conspiracy happened on this date, decades later y govt conspiracy happened on this date, therefore this proves 1 + 1=2.

[lord_casek]

AJAX was a CIA program. and it was a secret. for quite some time it was a big secret.

NORTHWOODS, not being acted upon, doesn't make it any less of a real plan.

 

the NIST report specifically cites sulfur from an unknown source. buildsings 1,2, and 7

all fell in their own tracks. that pancake theory is just bullshit. and 7 wasn't damaged by any falling debris. you can count the few windows that were blown out. the gas in the basement is

just bullocks. how many times has the NIST backed out on their claims as to how 7 fell?

look at silversteins insurance olicy he took out on the complex weeks before september 11 '01.

look at bush's brothers security contract for the complex that ended on the 11th. look into the ISI connection. look at the would be terrorists. atleast 7 of who are still alive. the leader, atta liked to do cocaine and hang out at strip joints. very devout muslim wouldn't you say?

look at the testimony from their flight school instructor in south florida. they could barely fly small engine planes. how are they going to handle something as big and complex as an airliner? look at that same flight schools conenction to the panamanian/cia drug ring. or the terrorists having residence at pensacola naval air station. now look at the bush family and their known connections with the bin ladens.

 

http://prisonplanet.com/pensacola_nas_link_scrutiny.html

 

how about FEMA being in place on the 10th of september?

 

http://ultrashare.net/hosting/fl/92d117851d/

 

 

read more, flap your jaws less, larry.

[lord_casek]

Context of 'Before September 11, 2001'

 

This page shows all events that either reference, or are referenced by, the event 'Before September 11, 2001'.

 

Before September 11, 2001: Hijackers Drink, Watch Strip Shows on Eve of Attacks

 

A number of the hijackers apparently drink alcohol heavily in bars and watch strip shows. On September 10, three of them spend $200 to $300 apiece on lap dances and drinks in the Pink Pony, a Daytona Beach, Florida strip club. While the hijackers had left Florida by this time, Mohamed Atta is reported to have visited the same strip club, and these men appear to have had foreknowledge of the 9/11 attacks. [boston Herald, 10/10/2001] Marwan Alshehhi and Mohamed Atta are seen entering the Hollywood, Florida, sports bar Shuckums already drunk. They proceed to drink even more hard alcohol there (see September 7, 2001).Atta and Alshehhi are seen at Sunrise 251, a bar in Palm Beach, Florida. They spend $1,000 in 45 minutes on Krug and Perrier-Jouet champagne. Atta is with a tall busty brunette in her late twenties; Alshehhi is with a shortish blonde. Both women are known locally as regular companions of high-rollers. [Daily Mail, 9/16/2001] A stripper at the Olympic Garden Topless Cabaret in Las Vegas, Nevada, recalls Marwan Alshehhi being “cheap,” paying only $20 for a lap dance. [Cox News Service, 10/16/2001] Several hijackers reportedly patronize the Nardone’s Go-Go Bar in Elizabeth, New Jersey. They are even seen there on the weekend before 9/11. [boston Herald, 10/10/2001; Wall Street Journal, 10/16/2001] Majed Moqed visits a porn shop on three occasions, and rents a porn video. The mayor of Paterson, New Jersey, says of the six hijackers who stayed there: “Nobody ever saw them at mosques, but they liked the go-go clubs.” [Newsday, 9/23/2001; Newsweek, 10/15/2001] Nawaf Alhazmi and Khalid Almihdhar often frequented Cheetah’s, a nude bar in San Diego. [Los Angeles Times, 9/1/2002] Hamza Alghamdi watched a porn video on September 10. [Wall Street Journal, 10/16/2001] University of Florida religion professor Richard Foltz states, “It is incomprehensible that a person could drink and go to a strip bar one night, then kill themselves the next day in the name of Islam ... People who would kill themselves for their faith would come from very strict Islamic ideology. Something here does not add up.” [south Florida Sun-Sentinel, 9/16/2001]

 

Entity Tags: Hamza Alghamdi, Majed Moqed, Khalid Almihdhar, Nawaf Alhazmi, Marwan Alshehhi, Mohamed Atta

[lord_casek]

http://www.worldnetdaily.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=24596

Hijacking ringleader

was 'sweating bullets'

Atta's scramble to catch Boston flight casts doubt on notion of flawless plan

[lord_casek]

9/11 five years on

http://news.independent.co.uk/world/americas/article1311190.ece

 

U.S rebuts 9/11 homegrown conspiracy theories

By Jim Wolf

 

WASHINGTON (Reuters) - The United States government is attacking conspiracy theories about the destruction of the World Trade Center in New York as the fifth anniversary of September 11 approaches.

 

According to a Scripps Howard/Ohio University poll carried out in July, more than one-third of Americans suspect U.S. officials helped in the September 11 attacks or took no action to stop them so the United States could later go to war.

 

The State Department responded this week with a rebuttal of World Trade Center demolition theories and doubts about other events of the day that abound on the Internet.

 

It listed some of the most prevalent September 11 myths, led by claims the twin towers were destroyed by secretly planted explosives, not burning passenger jets.

 

"This is how the collapses may have appeared to non-experts, but demolition experts point out many differences," said a department "special feature" available at http://usinfo.state.gov/media/misinformation.html.

 

Demolition professionals always blow the bottom floors of a structure first, while the collapses began at upper levels -- where the hijacked Boeing 767s hit, it said.

 

Nearly 3,000 people were killed on September 11. The Bush administration responded by leading an invasion of Afghanistan and, in 2003, of Iraq.

 

The State Department was providing "corrective information" in response to misinformation in the media and on the Internet, said Joanne Moore, a department spokeswoman.

 

The information in the rebuttal was not new, she added, but drawn from public sources.

 

In a similar vein, the U.S. National Institute of Standards and Technology posted a "fact sheet" on its Web site on Wednesday in question-and-answer format responding to alternative theories about the fire and the collapse.

 

NIST, which carried out a three-year investigation, concluded the towers collapsed after being hit by separate, fuel-laden aircraft flown by hijackers.

 

The resulting fire, which reached temperatures as high as 1,000 degrees C (1,800 degrees F), led to an inward bowing of perimeter columns and subsequent collapses, NIST found in 43 volumes that comprise a final report issued last October.

 

In putting out its answers to 14 questions about the World Trade Center, NIST, an arm of the Commerce Department, said its findings did not support the "pancake theory" of collapse premised on a progressive failure of floor systems consistent with a controlled demolition.

 

"NIST is a group of government scientists whose leaders are Bush appointees, and therefore their report is not likely to veer from the political story," said Kevin Ryan, an editor of the online Journal of 9/11 studies.

 

Ryan says he was a former site manager of a division of Underwriters Laboratories, an independent, not-for-profit product-safety testing and certification organization.

 

"The more information we learn about this investigation, the more concerned we become," he said.

 

http://today.reuters.com/news/articlenews.aspx?type=politicsNews&storyID=2006-09-02T191411Z_01_N02200639_RTRUKOC_0_US-SECURITY-CONSPIRACY.xml&WTmodLoc=Home-C5-politicsNews-2

[lord_casek]

http://lacitybeat.com/article.php?id=1212&IssueNum=66

peace, love, death metal

[Sars.Saw.Chicago]

http://www.loosechange.com/911

 

documentary for those who've never seen one on 911

[Stereotype V.0002]

Casek, the hijackers getting loaded and trying to find some hookers is pretty bad evidence to say they aren’t really devout muslims. Almost as bad as your previous claims that Muslims don’t wear jewelry. The night before suicide bombers kill themselves those types of festivities are pretty common, the reasoning being that if they are going to martyr themselves all sins will be forgiven. There are thousands of “devout muslims” in Saudi Arabia that go get drunk and have sex with imported sex slaves not too far from the big rock.

 

Again, maybe 2 hundred people at a closed off base that the government denies exists, where they can’t leave or have any outside contact, and they are working on a plane and not killing thousands of people, is not the same thing. There has never been anything similar to a conspiracy the size of 9-11 being orchestrated and then kept so nobody came forward, neither the workers the trade tower who escaped, or the thousand plus people who would be involved in a conspiracy as large as you claim.

 

About Pensacola, wouldn’t the government have them go to a more secure and private base? With that aside, you say that the flight school the hijackers supposedly attended was run by the CIA, and these CIA boogieman instructors specifically said the hijackers were terrible students. Why would the CIA sabotage its own operation by making the hijackers seem incapable of doing what they did?

[lord_casek]

muslim men don't wear jewelry. i'll answer the rest later.

[Stereotype V.0002]

look at silversteins insurance olicy he took out on the complex weeks before september 11 '01..

 

That definitely goes along with the rest of such an incredible plan. Take out the insurance a few days before hand, thats just fucking smooth. Is his assistant Whitey Buldger?

[Stereotype V.0002]

muslim men don't wear jewelry. i'll answer the rest later.

(unrelated)

 

You can go do some of that research your always talking about on google if you want more.

[lord_casek]

well, he did get the payoff. i think it was one month beforehand. and it was also the largest policy ever taken out at that time.

[lord_casek]

the president of iran is a christian.

[Stereotype V.0002]

No, he is a Shi'ite Muslim. Are the other photos Christians too?

[lord_casek]

my mistake. i was confusing him for the president of lebanon.

i stand corrected.

[lord_casek]

" In the Qur'an it states that men should not wear gold jewelry, dress to show off, must be modest and not show power or wealth through clothing or jewelry. Women had more freedom to wear jewelry to make themselves beautiful. "

[lord_casek]

thermite cutting technology

http://web.em.doe.gov/aceteam/DD_Technologies.pdf#search=%22thermite%20cutting%20device%22

 

 

http://www.wipo.int/pctdb/en/wo.jsp?KEY=03/06198.030123&ELEMENT_SET=DECL

 

 

http://darwin.nap.edu/books/NI000141/html/16.html

 

 

http://www.civil.northwestern.edu/people/bazant/PDFs/Papers/405.pdf

 

 

http://www.aisc.org/Content/ContentGroups/Documents/ePubs_Innovative_Ideas/FactsForSteelBuildingsFire.pdf

 

 

http://www.dodtechmatch.com/DOD/Patent/PatentView.aspx?id=6766744

[Sars.Saw.Chicago]

so then why are these guys wearing rings and watches?

[lord_casek]

so then why are these guys wearing rings and watches?

 

 

i would propose that they are not the muslim fundamentalists that we are led to believe that they are.

[bionic commando..]

[lord_casek]

good stuff. i'll watch the whole thing later.

[Stereotype V.0002]

So casek, they aren’t real muslims because they don’t follow some minor rule? Ahmadinejad, Nasrallah, an unknown Iraqi in the mahdi army, a unknown Sunni insurgent, and bin Laden aren’t X-treme (to the max)? They just aren’t muslim fundamentalists as we were led to believe...yet the major thing leading me to believe they are fundamentalists is their own actions and words. Are there any muslim fundamentalists in the world at all, or is it just all a CIA misinformation plot?

 

That guy is featured in this http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=3143048862360929736&q=penn+and+teller+bullshit&hl=en

video at about 6:30. The best part of his explanation -

”what’s your proof?”

”why, I don’t know”

[lord_casek]

i'll tell you what i do know.

 

the israeli's helped create hezbolla. the cia helped create al-qaeda.

that's very well known. i think that we're being very misled.

[Stereotype V.0002]

Any proof of that, especially Israel creating Hezbollah? America funded the muj during the Russian invasion of Afghanistan, at which point al Qaeda as an organization did not exist and the main players today were not as radicalized and anti-western. The funding also went through the ISI, not our biggest ally, without a lot of consideration or direction from the US. And none of that explains why the president of Iran or the nobody extremists from Iraq pictured above would have jewelry on.

[lord_casek]

israel also created hamas.

 

and for once, why don't you look it up for yourself?

i'm pretty busy. i was just stopping in to post a link to something i saw.

[ILOTSMYBRAIN]

These people have always been anti-western because we have always backed Isreal.

 

The fact that we were training and giving weapons to people that had neither, may have had something to do with that.

 

Regardless to what any proof you may have against the idea that a criminal element within our goverment helped and carried out plans to bring down the towers. You have to atleast admit that we are being lied to. The truth is being kept secret, and evidence is not only kept locked away, but in most cases it was destroyed.

 

That information alone leads me to believe other things then just hi-jackers were involved in taking the towers down. You believe the story you heard on ABC on what happened, go ahead.

 

Fact is if it was these so called men, then why aren't the photo's from the pentagon released, why was all the debri carted away, so no scientists but our governments could conduct tests on the metal and debri.

 

I could careless about debating with people on this issue on these forums. You aren't going to suddenly see the light, and I sure as hell am not going to sway to the dark side myself.

 

Of course, the dark and light sides, were a joke.

[Dawood]

" In the Qur'an it states that men should not wear gold jewelry, dress to show off, must be modest and not show power or wealth through clothing or jewelry. Women had more freedom to wear jewelry to make themselves beautiful. "

 

where does the quran say that smart guy?

[Dawood]

i would propose that they are not the muslim fundamentalists that we are led to believe that they are.

 

 

so let me me this straight, first you make a bogus claim agianst the quran , than you assert that those who actually "follow" the quran are the fundamentalists and the guys on TV are ok??

 

WOW, I'm blown away. I want these news people to give me my religion back.

 

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=8523733033479133693&q=ummah+film&hl=en

[Dawood]

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=3823055891922953980&q=ummah+film&hl=en

 

this is a video title "flying while muslim"

[Stereotype V.0002]

Casek, I have done a little research on the issues in general, the problem is I don’t frequent the conspiracy theory sites too often and don’t know where to go to find out how Israel created terrorist groups that somehow lets them benefit by the consistent attacks on their country.

 

The Palestinians are the whores of the middle east, every group/dictator/faction from Saddam Hussein who hated shia to wahhabists have used it as some sort of half assed justification for what they do. If that was what they cared so strongly about, they would focus on Israel. Anger about backing of Israel does not explain a shitload of violence either, like Van Gogh’s great nephew being killed because they didn’t like his film, the Bali night club bombing, random murders and beheadings of westerners in south east Asia, whats going on in Darfur, the list goes on and on.