Militant Christians want to take away your right to birth control.

[Evangelion>Ogre]

Contra-Contraception

 

By RUSSELL SHORTO

Published: May 7, 2006, Yew York Times

The English writer Daniel Defoe is best remembered today for creating the ultimate escapist fantasy, "Robinson Crusoe," but in 1727 he sent the British public into a scandalous fit with the publication of a nonfiction work called "Conjugal Lewdness: or, Matrimonial Whoredom." After apparently being asked to tone down the title for a subsequent edition, Defoe came up with a new one — "A Treatise Concerning the Use and Abuse of the Marriage Bed" — that only put a finer point on things. The book wasn't a tease, however. It was a moralizing lecture. After the wanton years that followed the restoration of the monarchy, a time when both theaters and brothels multiplied, social conservatism rooted itself in the English bosom. Self-appointed Christian morality police roamed the land, bent on restricting not only homosexuality and prostitution but also what went on between husbands and wives.

 

 

The Abortion Pill: Mifepristone, left, is taken at a clinic; misoprostol is taken 24 to 48 hours later at home.

It was this latter subject that Defoe chose to address. The sex act and sexual desire should not be separated from reproduction, he and others warned, else "a man may, in effect, make a whore of his own wife." To highlight one type of then-current wickedness, Defoe gives a scene in which a young woman who is about to marry asks a friend for some "recipes." "Why, you little Devil, you would not take Physick to kill the child?" the friend asks as she catches her drift. "No," the young woman answers, "but there may be Things to prevent Conception; an't there?" The friend is scandalized and argues that the two amount to the same thing, but the bride to be dismisses her: "I cannot understand your Niceties; I would not be with Child, that's all; there's no harm in that, I hope." One prime objective of England's Christian warriors in the 1720's was to stamp out what Defoe called "the diabolical practice of attempting to prevent childbearing by physical preparations."

 

The wheels of history have a tendency to roll back over the same ground. For the past 33 years — since, as they see it, the wanton era of the 1960's culminated in the Supreme Court's Roe v. Wade decision in 1973 — American social conservatives have been on an unyielding campaign against abortion. But recently, as the conservative tide has continued to swell, this campaign has taken on a broader scope. Its true beginning point may not be Roe but Griswold v. Connecticut, the 1965 case that had the effect of legalizing contraception. "We see a direct connection between the practice of contraception and the practice of abortion," says Judie Brown, president of the American Life League, an organization that has battled abortion for 27 years but that, like others, now has a larger mission. "The mind-set that invites a couple to use contraception is an antichild mind-set," she told me. "So when a baby is conceived accidentally, the couple already have this negative attitude toward the child. Therefore seeking an abortion is a natural outcome. We oppose all forms of contraception."

 

The American Life League is a lay Catholic organization, and for years — especially since Pope Paul VI's "Humanae Vitae" encyclical of 1968 forbade "any action which either before, at the moment of or after sexual intercourse, is specifically intended to prevent procreation" — being anti-contraception was largely a Catholic thing. Protestants and other non-Catholics tended to look on curiously as they took part in the general societywide acceptance of various forms of birth control. But no longer. Organizations like the Christian Medical and Dental Associations, which inject a mixture of religion and medicine into the social sphere, operate from a broadly Christian perspective that includes opposition to some forms of birth control. Edward R. Martin Jr., a lawyer for the public-interest law firm Americans United for Life, whose work includes seeking to restrict abortion at the state level and representing pharmacists who have refused to prescribe emergency contraception, told me: "We see contraception and abortion as part of a mind-set that's worrisome in terms of respecting life. If you're trying to build a culture of life, then you have to start from the very beginning of life, from conception, and you have to include how we think and act with regard to sexuality and contraception." Dr. Joseph B. Stanford, who was appointed by President Bush in 2002 to the F.D.A.'s Reproductive Health Drugs Advisory Committee despite (or perhaps because of) his opposition to contraception, sounded not a little like Daniel Defoe in a 1999 essay he wrote: "Sexual union in marriage ought to be a complete giving of each spouse to the other, and when fertility (or potential fertility) is deliberately excluded from that giving I am convinced that something valuable is lost. A husband will sometimes begin to see his wife as an object of sexual pleasure who should always be available for gratification."

 

As with other efforts — against gay marriage, stem cell research, cloning, assisted suicide — the anti-birth-control campaign isn't centralized; it seems rather to be part of the evolution of the conservative movement. The subject is talked about in evangelical churches and is on the agenda at the major Bible-based conservative organizations like Focus on the Family and the Christian Coalition. It also has its point people in Congress — including Representative Roscoe Bartlett of Maryland, Representative Chris Smith of New Jersey, Representative Joe Pitts and Representative Melissa Hart of Pennsylvania and Senator Tom Coburn of Oklahoma — all Republicans who have led opposition to various forms of contraception.

 

R. Albert Mohler Jr., president of the Southern Baptist Theological Seminary, is considered one of the leading intellectual figures of evangelical Christianity in the U.S. In a December 2005 column in The Christian Post titled "Can Christians Use Birth Control?" he wrote: "The effective separation of sex from procreation may be one of the most important defining marks of our age — and one of the most ominous. This awareness is spreading among American evangelicals, and it threatens to set loose a firestorm.. . .A growing number of evangelicals are rethinking the issue of birth control — and facing the hard questions posed by reproductive technologies."

[Evangelion>Ogre]

"Matrimonial Whoredom"??!?!? And people still subscribe to this school of thought?

 

Seriously, how psychotic are these fanatics?

[Smart]

so... does this mean I can't shoot in her mouth?

[Evangelion>Ogre]

That would be considered murder of innocent future children, of course...

 

Smart, I never figured you for a baby-killer..kudos.

[Smart]

I thought because I stand back and really try to hit her mouth it would count as 'control'... are you sure about that?

 

51% gets you in right?

[Evangelion>Ogre]

That depends..do you use targeting software, or are you talented enough to do it manually?

 

And if you're doing it manually, that's a whole new sin you're committing, on top of all the dead babies..

 

You are sooooo going to hell.

[Dawood]

I mean, I'm all for having children and reproducing, but some people shouldn't be allowed to have kids.

 

Birth control in my veiw should be limited, but then again, I'm torn...some people just don't need to be parents.

 

People are so self centered and all about themselves these days. Poor kids.

 

what'cha gonna do?

[!@#$%]

yeah hahahaa real funny guys

except this is an actual action item for their agenda

 

what is going to happen when all the people who don't want children are forced to have them?

there is no way people will stop having sex, just like people will never stop using drugs.

 

yeah, so self centered, thinking everyone should live by their set of rules.

[alure]

go catch herpes.. and pass them down to your kids..idiot.

[BIF.BEELOWS]

if these crazy ass christians did get rid of birth control or abortion....crime would sky rocket....think about it....

i think crime was pretty bad in the 70's before legal abortion

[angelofdeath]

...and crime is worse now.

 

this sort of argument is like..."illegals do jobs that no american will do."

[Dawood]

yeah hahahaa real funny guys

except this is an actual action item for their agenda

 

what is going to happen when all the people who don't want children are forced to have them?

there is no way people wteredill stop having sex, just like people will never stop using drugs.

 

yeah, so self centered, thinking everyone should live by their set of rules.

 

ha, ha...I just noticed this symbols......

If that comment was directed at me, then let me clarify. If i come across as someone who thinks everyone should live by my set of rules, then let me say now that is not the case.

I don't make up the rules. I can't force anyone to do anything beyond their will. I believe in my heart that my religion is the best way of life, but can I force you to live by it? Of course not because I don't have that authority. I will say.... for the sake of posting on a message board that just because I think that the world would be better if they adopted an upright code of morality and respect and lived according to right guidance and not according to their own desires and whims does that make me self centered? (keeping in mind that I don't make up the rules.)

[!@#$%]

not you in particular, unless you want to align yourself with people who want to take away birth control.

of course that is a wish of people who want others to live by their rules.

 

birth control is not always about 'desires and whims'

have any of these moronic religious fanatics even considered that overpopulation

(and i'm talking in the WORLD here, not the united states)

is destroying our planet?

 

that this so called duty to procreate might actually be the undoing of humanity?

 

religious fanatics have already fucked up AIDS prevention with their fear of condoms.

imagine what a different place africa could be if birth control didn't have such a huge stigma there

 

some of you are living with tunnel vision

[Dawood]

has it ever occoured to you that AIDS is a result of peoples nasty drug use, promiscuity and disgusting sexual habits? To me , AIDS is a punishment. You can't just keep going around thinking nothing is coming back around at you.

[!@#$%]

NO you fucking religious fanatic moron

 

KEEP LIVING IN YOUR SHROUD

 

don't come at me with your self-serving judgement of humanity oh pretentious one.

 

THE ORIGIN OF AIDS is from africans eating BUSHMEAT

PROVEN (even down to the forest where the virus made the species jump)

by tracing MITOCHONDRIAL DNA lines.

 

if you weren't so blinded by your dogma maybe you might learn something REAL

instead of just spouting bullshit rhetoric

 

if you think shits a punishment, then all the muslims dying in iraq right now are also being punished by their god.

[!@#$%]

dawood i used to be able to just think 'oh this guy is really devoted'

now i know you're a piece of shit

[Larry Pubes]

^whoa.

[!@#$%]

people make all kinds of assumptions

this fuckwad dawood never stops to think some people i know might be some of the ones who supposedly got what they deserved

 

 

he can go die a painful death in misery

[Larry Pubes]

ouch! you're being a little dramatic, but hey...you go girl!

[Dawood]

NO you fucking religious fanatic moron

 

 

 

KEEP LIVING IN YOUR SHROUD

 

 

 

don't come at me with your self-serving judgement of humanity oh pretentious one.

 

 

 

THE ORIGIN OF AIDS is from africans eating BUSHMEAT

 

PROVEN (even down to the forest where the virus made the species jump)

 

by tracing MITOCHONDRIAL DNA lines.

 

 

 

if you weren't so blinded by your dogma maybe you might learn something REAL

 

instead of just spouting bullshit rhetoric

 

 

 

if you think shits a punishment, then all the muslims dying in iraq right now are also being punished by their god.

 

 

 

 

 

Thanks for your nice words symbols. My grandmother used to tell me that you catch more flies with honey than you do with !@#$%.

 

 

 

Anyway, I never said anything about the origin of AIDS. I simply said that AIDS is a punishment for promiscuous people and dope feinds. If you don't beleive what goes around comes around then I don't know what to tell you.

 

I wonder why married people who don't do drugs and don't sleep around DON'T GET AIDS...HMMM?

 

 

 

Symbols, listen, don't get al butt-hurt because I call a spade a spade. One of my best friends and graff partners OD'ed just last year. We used to rock freights together every week. Since then, I got religious and married and he got a drug habit and died.

 

So If someone came here and said "man, people who do drugs Over Dose and die"

 

Should I nut up and start flipping out on him? Call him names and make all types of accusations and assumptions about him?

 

 

 

You should be the first one agreeing with what I said (And I quote)

 

 

 

"has it ever occoured to you that AIDS is a result of peoples nasty drug use, promiscuity and disgusting sexual habits?"

 

 

 

Is there anything wrong with what I said? Am I not being sensitive enough to the nasty dopefiend freakazoids?

 

 

Smarten up , seriously, If you know people like this and are close to them, then you should be the first one to agree with me and say, yeah, you know what, guys? Drugs and being a bunch of whores is killing us.(not that I think youre a whore, I don't know you) anyway, It's not easy, but I know you can do it , look you made over 7,000 posts. You can accomplish anything.

 

BTW, do you think you are the only one who knows people with AIDS?

 

Oh , and FYI, I DO beleive that God is punishing the people of Iraq. Either that or testing them. I beleive that nothing bad comes to us except through what our own hands earn.

Meaning that we reap what we sow. If you plant good seeds and nurture them properly, chances are you'll harvest good fruits and vice versa.

 

Muslim or non muslim, we all get what we deserve.

 

and don't pull that drama queen stuff on me anymore, I'm only nice about it once, ok?

I'll suck up those comments you made, i've heard worse.

but seriously, for your sake, it makes you look foolish and I know youre not a fool, symbols.

 

aight? be cool.

[!@#$%]

i didn't read any of your bullshit, i won't bother to read anything you type anymore.

i stand by what i said.

[coffeedependency]

has it ever occoured to you that AIDS is a result of peoples nasty drug use' date=' promiscuity and disgusting sexual habits? To me , AIDS is a punishment. You can't just keep going around thinking nothing is coming back around at you.[/quote']

 

drugs and promiscuous sex were around long before aids made its debut.

[WORDISM45]

if people didnt do drugs and have promiscuous sex they wouldnt get aids. however that doesnt mean that people that do drugs and have promiscuous sex DESERVE to die such a prolongued horrible death (or have any punishment at all). however life isnt fair and i think it is true that people should be a lot more careful about shit like that. i kind of look at it like i do with smokers, if you do it once or twice its probavly not goign to kill you, if you make a habit out of it youre probably going to get caught out in some way or another eventually. Now i have huge sympathy for people dyign of cancer caused by smoking (happening in my family right now) and people who die from aids. however in most cases it is a result of the persons actions, no matter how undeserved.

[2342]

has it ever occoured to you that AIDS is a result of peoples nasty drug use' date=' promiscuity and disgusting sexual habits? To me , AIDS is a punishment. You can't just keep going around thinking nothing is coming back around at you.[/quote']

 

Dawood-

When I lived in Saudi I had a good friend of mine who became very sick. She is married with 4 kids- had been healthy her whole life- in her sickness she had to have a blood transfusion. After the transfusion was initiated there were some complications- that’s when they discovered that the blood being transfused was tainted with the AIDS virus.

I understand that everything in Islam is already written – but-

Was this her fault? Should she be punished? What “bad hand” could she have dealt to deserve this?

Anyway- I am very disappointed in your take on AIDS

[Evangelion>Ogre]

True..Just because you've "Found religion" doesn't make it ok for you to pass judgment

on others, regardless of what your pastor or priest may say. And besides AIDS and STD's,

there is the issue of people who can't afford to have 10 fucking babies...Should a married

couple stop having sex because they've decided they've had enough children? Do you have

sex with your wife with the goal of procreation in mind every time? This is about much more

than just people being slutty, perfectly "Normal" people would be affected greatly by legislation

that banned birth control..then there would be people like you, wondering why your taxes are

rising every few months, and why there are dirty little kids with mothers who don't seem to

give a shit anymore robbing your house while you go on vacation..Things aren't as simple as

black/white, dawood..as much as we might like them to be.

[Dawood]

Dawood-

 

When I lived in Saudi I had a good friend of mine who became very sick. She is married with 4 kids- had been healthy her whole life- in her sickness she had to have a blood transfusion. After the transfusion was initiated there were some complications- that’s when they discovered that the blood being transfused was tainted with the AIDS virus.

 

I understand that everything in Islam is already written – but-

 

Was this her fault? Should she be punished? What “bad hand” could she have dealt to deserve this?

 

Anyway- I am very disappointed in your take on AIDS

 

 

 

 

This particular person is one case. I beleive that whatever bad comes to you it is because of some bad that you put forth with your own hands somewhere down the line, (basically, what goes around comes around). So, in general, yes, I still say AIDS is a punishment for peoples bad behavior. I'm sure there are some people who are married , never cheated , and were never junkies but still caught AIDS, but this is definately not the rule, it's the exception. Should she be punished? I don't know. I cant be the judge, Obviously, she's being punished for one reason or another.

 

I'm not saying people "deserve" punishment in a mean way or to look down on people. All I am saying is that when these things like the AIDS epidemic hit us or earthquakes, wars, hurricaines, tsunamis we should look to ourselves to see what we've been doing to cause these calamities. I don't beleive in a haphazard world where things just happen for no reason , with no provocation just randomly. I beleive in cause and effect. Some times we understand why things happen and sometimes we don't but, there is wisdom in all of it.

If people reflected more on the effects of their lifestyles I think it would change more people but unfortunately, instead of reflection which leads to repairation or a cure most people just look for ways to cover up the symptoms of the diseases they get.

[Dawood]

True..Just because you've "Found religion" doesn't make it ok for you to pass judgment

on others, regardless of what your pastor or priest may say. And besides AIDS and STD's,

there is the issue of people who can't afford to have 10 fucking babies...Should a married

couple stop having sex because they've decided they've had enough children? Do you have

sex with your wife with the goal of procreation in mind every time? This is about much more

than just people being slutty, perfectly "Normal" people would be affected greatly by legislation

that banned birth control..then there would be people like you, wondering why your taxes are

rising every few months, and why there are dirty little kids with mothers who don't seem to

give a shit anymore robbing your house while you go on vacation..Things aren't as simple as

black/white, dawood..as much as we might like them to be.

 

 

I don't think I mentioned anything about birth control in my posts,

but yeah youre right, thing aren't just black and white.

[Dawood]

i didn't read any of your bullshit, i won't bother to read anything you type anymore.

i stand by what i said.

 

 

sorry to upset you symbols...

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

ha, ha you read it.

[fermentor666]

This particular person is one case. I beleive that whatever bad comes to you it is because of some bad that you put forth with your own hands somewhere down the line, (basically, what goes around comes around). So, in general, yes, I still say AIDS is a punishment for peoples bad behavior. I'm sure there are some people who are married , never cheated , and were never junkies but still caught AIDS, but this is definately not the rule, it's the exception. Should she be punished? I don't know. I cant be the judge, Obviously, she's being punished for one reason or another.

 

I'm not saying people "deserve" punishment in a mean way or to look down on people. All I am saying is that when these things like the AIDS epidemic hit us or earthquakes, wars, hurricaines, tsunamis we should look to ourselves to see what we've been doing to cause these calamities. I don't beleive in a haphazard world where things just happen for no reason , with no provocation just randomly. I beleive in cause and effect. Some times we understand why things happen and sometimes we don't but, there is wisdom in all of it.

If people reflected more on the effects of their lifestyles I think it would change more people but unfortunately, instead of reflection which leads to repairation or a cure most people just look for ways to cover up the symptoms of the diseases they get.

 

 

 

If earthquakes and tsunamis and such were punishment for wrongs that mankind has committed, then why do they strike areas like Indonesia or Nepal and massacre thousands of people who have been relatively harmless? If there were a God, I have a hard time believing that he would wipe out entire islands of indiginious people because of the war in Iraq or a genocide in Africa. Although I do agree that there are many people who are getting AIDS because of their carelessness and vice, there are also many who are good people that get this disease. A person can be raped and get the disease. In fact, the rumor was that in Nigeria the men believed that once they got AIDS, having sex with an infant was the cure. There are plenty of people who have sex, both hetero and homosexual sex, that are not promiscious and are not depraved, but still manage to contract the disease. If it were a punishment, then why would a God do so to the undeserving? The problem that I see with thinking like this, Dawood, is that when one specifies a negative event as being purely fate-driven, society leaves itself open to be blindsided by unpreparedness. It reminds me of Katrina, where religious radicals believed that New Orleans was being punished for being sinful. Well, Mississipi and Georgia got battered as well and not all of the towns that got decimated were places of sin. And then Texas got slammed with Rita, even though they're supposed to be "God's Country". So, assuming that everyone repented and lived right down to the core of God's code, would that be enough to protect them from the forces of nature? That's the foolishness in that sort of blanket statement. Cause and effect is something that I believe in, as well. But natural disasters are due to physics. A bit of lava pushes a tectonic plate several thousand feet under the ocean and a giant wave of water wipes out a tropical island.

[Dawood]

something caused that lava to move. I gotta go to work, talk to you later.