KaBar2 Posted June 12, 2005 Share Posted June 12, 2005 Villain--- They don't play here, either, but there is a definate atmosphere of racism in the deaths of all these convenience store clerks. In 2003, I think it was, we had six murders of covenience store clerks or gas-station owners in a period of a few months. Many of these murders occurred in traditionally black neighborhoods, but several of them occurred in areas that were not usually "high crime" areas. What would happen is that the armed robbers would come in hard, and the immigrant store owners would resist, and the armed robbers would just gun them down. Most times these guys were the head of the family, taking the most dangerous nighttime shifts for themselves, and they were trying to support their families and send their kids to college. When they got killed, it just devastated the family. A lot of times the store closed and left the neighborhood without a convenience store, because the widow was usually too frightened to try and continue business there any longer. There is definately a strong feeling of racism and hatred towards the (usually Asian) store owners. They would start up grocery stores in mostly black neighborhoods because there was an area with an empty, out-of-business grocery store. I guess it didn't occur to them that the reason there was no store was that the previous owners had been driven out of business by repeated robberies and shoplifting. I think that a hard ass neighborhood requires a facility that is hardened, like a bank. The store should be like those stores in New York, where the customers come up to a bullet-proof teller window and make their order, pay, and receive their purchases through a sliding drawer. A lot of the pawn shops in Houston are like that, you can't get in unless the clerk buzzes you in, and then you are in a sort of cage, where you are trapped between two electronically controlled doors until they choose to let you in the store. If you rob the place, you can't get back out, because somebody has to "buzz" you out, and if you rob them, there's nobody in there that will agree to let you out, plus, they are all armed. I suppose an armed robber could take a hostage, but that adds aggravated kidnapping (kidnapping during the commission of a violent felony) to the list of felonies one is committing, and God forbid the hostage should come to harm. Texas juries would give the death penalty for that in a heartbeat. None of this has much to do with hats and hoodies, except that clothing is communication. Everybody knows that. If you communicate "I'm a bad ass motherfucker," by the way you dress, DON'T BE SURPRISED if people take you at your word. If you read up on gang symbols and gang attire, you'll see that a lot of kids who just want to act cool are going around communicating to the rest of the world that they are members of a murderous gang, even if that's not really true. But to the "civilians," and to the other gang members, there's no real way to tell the difference between some kid wearing his hat turned sideways, and some actual members of the Crips or Bloods or Latin Kings or whatever. Just like there's no way for somebody to tell the difference between an actual Klan member and some dumb ass with a Confederate flag on his shirt. Either way, the rest of the world will treat you as they perceive you to be. How you present yourself is your responsibility, not theirs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
villain Posted June 12, 2005 Share Posted June 12, 2005 Alright Kabar... seems like you have a genuine concern over the issue and are not just trying to play partisan politics. I'm actually surprised that so many convenience stores in Houston are not already hardened as the vast majority of those I visit in many an inner city are hardened. Asians seem kinda idealist. There's very low crime rates in east asia.... this could account for that. Maybe a kind of naivete is happening. (the majority of conveninence store owners in Detroit are Chaldees as seeking would say, and their shops are like fortresses). I agree that kids fronting gang symbols is beyond retarted, and kids who used to rep the wrong shit in the wrong area would get hurt bad or killed back in the day.... But I haven't seen so much overt gang sybology these days. Hoodies and hats are not specifically gang related. But I am on my 7th or 8th drink of the day, listening to Captain Beefheart and I need to attempt to cut my own hair now. So that's all I have to say about that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
swannist the oner Posted June 13, 2005 Share Posted June 13, 2005 f...ban hoodies???wtf is that alll about,,,i>>>funny this might just become a step back for you guts in the UK huh? yeah we got to deal with that shit all the time out here in Callifornia...No Gang Attire Please.. haha oy im lovin this site piece Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrJackDaniels Posted June 13, 2005 Share Posted June 13, 2005 how the fuck did this lead (again) to america and its problems??? this is a uk based problem as the opening post says. we dont have the issue of bare store workers getting shot at. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mentor Posted June 14, 2005 Share Posted June 14, 2005 "how the fuck did this lead (again) to america and its problems???" because we live in america and thats whats on our minds.....the two biggest things on my mind right now are unjustified wars and racism ,as is whats on most minds of the working class....you know, those people who fight wars and commonly confront racism Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrJackDaniels Posted June 14, 2005 Share Posted June 14, 2005 if its on your mind, make a thread about how it affects you and yank land. what the fuck has being working class, confronting racism and unjustified wars got to do with uk teens wearing hoods and hats? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dumy Posted June 14, 2005 Share Posted June 14, 2005 Originally posted by MrJackDaniels@Jun 14 2005, 11:59 AM if its on your mind, make a thread about how it affects you and yank land. what the fuck has being working class, confronting racism and unjustified wars got to do with uk teens wearing hoods and hats? Quoted post are you trying to be ironic? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mentor Posted June 14, 2005 Share Posted June 14, 2005 "if its on your mind, make a thread about how it affects you and yank land. what the fuck has being working class, confronting racism and unjustified wars got to do with uk teens wearing hoods and hats?" wtf...first of all youre acting like i turned the conversation into what it is.....i simply pointed it out and explained why....but dawg if you think that people in hoodies, who dress to 'street' or 'hiphop', are only being stereotyped in the uk then youre not paying attention....sure the thread is about uk kids but why start a diffrent thread to talk about how we feel about those stereotypes?its not like we just out of the blue started discussing iraq or someshit....and why are you so high strung....down some jack and chill the fuck out Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrJackDaniels Posted June 15, 2005 Share Posted June 15, 2005 i just get irritated when i see threads get taken over and turn into discussions on america and its present state. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dumy Posted June 15, 2005 Share Posted June 15, 2005 tell 'em why you mad son! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KaBar2 Posted June 16, 2005 Share Posted June 16, 2005 I don't think that the problem of store owners and shopping mall owners banning specific attire (hoodies, baseball caps, whatever) is a problem specific to the UK. If you are just seeing this issue as "I should be able to wear whatever I want wherever I want to wear it," you are adopting a very immature, self-centered attitude. CLOTHING IS COMMUNICATION. Whatever you wear, you are communicating to the rest of the world something about yourself. If you wear a uniform of some sort, whether it be a soldier or police officer wearing the uniform of the government for which he works, or a member of a football squad, or a member of the Rollin' 60's Crips, you are communicating to the rest of the world your status and your intent. Store owners are not banning members of the Salvation Army wearing their uniforms. They are not banning police officers, soldiers, Girl Guides, rugby players, rodeo cowboys or Hasiddic Jews. They are banning people who wear uniforms proclaiming "I am a gangster, and you'd fucking well better leave me alone. I have a lot of friends who are just as contemptuous of rules and the Law as I am, and I intend to do whatever I please, whenever I please, and to whomever I care to do it. Back off, biatch! I am more than ready to use violence to get my way." Now. Let's assume that I am a liberal social worker and I have dedicated my entire life to helping the poor and downtrodden masses, and especially racial minorities. But when I go out into the neighborhoods which I serve, I wear my head shaved, a bright red T-shirt with "SS" runes on the front and "88" on the back, high-water pants with braces and spit-shined combat boots with white parade laces. Let's say I wear these items simply because I like the bold style. I like the boots because I have to walk a lot. I like the artistic impact of wearing "SS" runes on my shirt, and my birthday just happens to be August the 8th, so I like sporting the "88." But for some reason, my potential clients just cannot seem to warm up to me. Despite all my attempts to help them, they slam their doors in my face and herd their children inside whenever I come to their block. I just can't understand it. I guess they just don't want any help from Social Services. Understand? IT DOESN'T MATTER WHAT YOU INTEND BY WEARING HOODIES AND HATS TURNED SIDEWAYS. It matters how other people (in this case, shop owners) perceive you to be, and what your intentions are. If you go about dressed like a Trekkie, don't be surprised if people have a difficult time taking your scientific expertise seriously. If you dress up like Michael Jackson, well...you get the idea. If you aren't a thug, and don't wish people to treat you like a thug, then stop communicating to the entire world "I'm a thug." Then they won't mind letting you into their stores to shop. But on the other hand, if you want people to feel intimidated and resentful towards you, and you want them to be prepared to deal with someone they believe is a self-proclaimed criminal, by all means, wear whatever you please. But don't bitch about the consequences thereof. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dumy Posted June 16, 2005 Share Posted June 16, 2005 Kabar I think when you are refer to "hoodies and hats turned sideways" you should specify that you mean gang related clothing, which means hats and hoodies with specific colors, brands,gang insiginia's..etc, cuz around my way, an urban area where minorities reside in large numbers, I see plenty of little hipster white chicks walking around in hats turned this way and that with hoodies on..and I doubt anyone's intimidated by them in the least or thinking of banning their attire..I think the fact that they want to ban "hoodies and hats" speaks more about a certain stigatism peaple attach to "hip hop clothing" and minorities in general rather than a real threat, which I feel is just being ignorant..now if this ban addresses a real issue, I have no problem with it, when I was in HS they banned black and red patent leather jordans cuz kids we're getting robbed for them (again very specific color, brand) by vice lords, this addressed a specific problem and I felt safer for it...but if you just want to ban hoodies and hats in general cuz it makes you feel uncomfortable when you see blacks and others in "hip hop" clothing..then that's a problem.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gone gone forever Posted June 16, 2005 Author Share Posted June 16, 2005 The reason why in the UK, cetrain places banned the hats and hoodies, was because people feel threatened, and profits were down, apparently. :yuck: :yuck: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
villain Posted June 17, 2005 Share Posted June 17, 2005 Dumy said what I wanted to say. Hoodies and hats are pretty general. I would understand gang specific bans. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Locofanclub Posted June 17, 2005 Share Posted June 17, 2005 Shopping centres ban hoodies & caps...fair point. Pubs on matchdays ban baseball caps,Burberry (yuck!),Aquascuttum,Stone Island,CP company etc etc...ok no worries. Im alright,unless the law bans trilby hats! :haha: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KaBar2 Posted June 17, 2005 Share Posted June 17, 2005 I'm sure there is some degree of racism in the shop owners' ban of "hip hop" clothing. Forty years ago there was a great deal of opposition and animosity towards the styles popular with young people then. I attended a high school in Houston that was predominantly white. There were very few racial minority students, and the minority kids we did have were mostly Asian or Latino. The largest "minority" group in the school were Jewish students. (I know, this seems crazy now.) Teachers, school administrators and parents tried to ban "rythym and blues" and "soul" music at school dances, citing the suggestive nature of some of the lyrics. Of course, by today's standards these lyrics are so tame as to be ridiculously saccharine, but things have changed a great deal in forty years. The real issue wasn't the lyrics, but the fact that the music was "Negro" music, and the authorities did not want to seem to be expressing approval of R&B or soul music, because they were concerned that the (white) students would be influenced to accept "Negro culture and morality." It did not seem to matter to these authorities that in reality, the black parents were usually a lot more conservative and strict than the parents of the (white) students they were trying to "protect". Later, our school was integrated, without any violence or much trouble at all. The school district sent the "cream of the crop" of black students from predominantly black schools to the white schools to be the first wave of integrating students--they were the best of the best: National Honor Society, top athletes, etc. They quickly became popular and accepted by 90% of the white students. I witnessed the arrival of a black student's mother to the Principal's office, called there by the vice principal because her son was caught skipping class and smoking cigarettes. (Of course, I was there because I got in trouble too.) The first thing that happened was that she slapped him hard enough to knock him off his feet. Then she said loudly "Boy, you just wait til I get you home." Then she composed herself and went into the vice principal's office. She was 100% in agreement with the school authorities that he should be suspended from school, and she promised the V.P. that he would be punished at home, and not just permitted to "lay around" during his 3-day suspension. I was thinking, "Man, I'm sure glad my mother isn't that strict." The problem that your UK shopkeepers perceive is that there is no recourse to people's bad behavior (shoplifting, etc.), so the only way to prevent it is to ban people they see as "troublemakers" from their stores. If the mothers of those banned kids enforced discipline and the shopkeepers had recourse to the parents, I doubt seriously that they would feel the need to ban anybody. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mentor Posted June 18, 2005 Share Posted June 18, 2005 truthfully i think its ineffective to ban hoodies and hats but they can do what they want with their stores....its not my place to say what you can or cant do.....i just wont shop there and ill make it known i wont....ill tell as many other people as i can to also not shop at that store....so the owner loses out by their own hand....its still unjustified and unreasonable but ehhh...so what...? i can spend my dough elsewhere or save up to open an identical store to take all the costumers who've been turned away...now if the store continues to be exclusive to a degree that it seems i dunno...RACIST....then its time to throw molotov's through windows.....OH YEAH Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KaBar2 Posted June 18, 2005 Share Posted June 18, 2005 If I made a statement like that, I'd get accused of "internet thuggin'." I agree with the first part of your statement. If the shop owners are rude, deprive them of your trade. As for the molotov cocktail, "no thanks." Arson carries a heavy sentence if you get caught. And here in Texas, the shop owner can use deadly force against an arsonist during the hours of darkness with complete impugnity. That means he can shoot to kill with absolutely no recourse on the arsonist's part. If you shoot back, and get caught, you could be convicted of "retaliation," another serious felony. The law is loaded completely on the side of the business owner or homeowner, and completely against anyone who is attempting to terrorize another person(s) at night. These laws date from 1876. They were designed to crush the Ku Klux Klan's nightriding, after the American Civil War, and they worked very well. Word to the wise in Texas--"DO NOT BREAK THE LAW AT NIGHT." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dumy Posted June 18, 2005 Share Posted June 18, 2005 Texas is a crazy place.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mentor Posted June 19, 2005 Share Posted June 19, 2005 i was kidding about the flaming molotov......it would take more than not allowing me in your store to do something that crazy...but that brief moment in texan history was cool though....thats just one of those tidbits of information most people would never even think about... p.s. only gay white rednecks join the ku klux klan.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
2 blaazed Posted June 19, 2005 Share Posted June 19, 2005 I say it to the lil kids arround here all the time.The only times you should be wearing a hoddie over you hat is because its cold out, or because some shit is gonna pop off.Not because you think it looks gangster or some shit Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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