seeking Posted February 22, 2004 Author Share Posted February 22, 2004 i should learn more about kerry, but truth be told, i dont really think it matters. there is no way that he could fuck up the world like bush has, so as i said, he could be a transvestite klansman, and i'd still vote for him. the sad fact is that if someone 100% 'for the people' came into office, it would fuck things up more than it would fix them. you cant completely change any system without their being serious repercussions. you have to do it gradually. look at iraq for instance. they're 'free' now, but all that means is they dont have electricity, jobs, running water, police, or a soverign government. polls are showing by an overwelming margin that the iraqi people preferred their living conditions under sadaam rather than what they have now. which isnt to say he was good, but it is to say that you cant just turn something upside down, then drop it, and expect it not to break. you've got to slowly roll it over. kerry might not be ralph nader, but he's a step back to the left, which is good enough to start with. our freedoms werent snatched over night, and they cant be taken back that way either. in no uncertain terms, i hate what our country is doing to the world. but no matter what happens, it will be incredible, 50 years from now, to look back on these years and know that we watched it unfold. this election isnt even about america that much. bush or kerry, we'll all pretty much have it the same here in america, this is about foreign policy, how we'll treat the rest of the world, and how they view us. the only other thing that i think will be important, is trying to reverse the loss of jobs to china/mexico in the name of saving billion dollar companies money. that has now climbed the ladder and is perching right with national healthcare on my heirachy of homeland importance. villian, couple words of advice. formulate your posts a little more naturally. you sound like you're giving a lecture instead of expressing oppinion or beliefs. also, keep in mind that most people will have no clue who these folks are that you keep name dropping. if you want to prove a point or try to inform people, which you seem very capable of doing, you need to speak to their level using models and language they can understand. please dont take this as an insult, i liked your replies, and obviously its a topic you care about. i think you could contribute a ton to these discussions, but as you go about it, i think it would pass over most peoples heads. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
villain Posted February 22, 2004 Share Posted February 22, 2004 Originally posted by seeking villian, couple words of advice. formulate your posts a little more naturally. you sound like you're giving a lecture instead of expressing oppinion or beliefs. also, keep in mind that most people will have no clue who these folks are that you keep name dropping. if you want to prove a point or try to inform people, which you seem very capable of doing, you need to speak to their level using models and language they can understand. please dont take this as an insult, i liked your replies, and obviously its a topic you care about. i think you could contribute a ton to these discussions, but as you go about it, i think it would pass over most peoples heads. Hey thanks for the advice seeking. I really am a robot though with very little humanity left in me. But I will try to clarify my points better. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
villain Posted February 22, 2004 Share Posted February 22, 2004 A step back to the left is a step in the right direction.... Though it's a classic case of politics not staying in step with the world. For example the unruly world of cyberspace where napster had completely altered the exchange of media. As far as other issues go we've got alot of stepping to do and there is no time for half stepping (pun intended). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
seeking Posted February 22, 2004 Author Share Posted February 22, 2004 its not that they necessarily need clarification, i just think if you put them in slightly more laymens terms, you could be alot more effective. id never read anything you posted till this thread, so maybe you're stupid and i hate you - i dont know yet, but just from your couple posts, you seem to know what you're talking about. now you just need to get others to know too. the reason i'm 'elequent' or well spoken in debates like this (if i may take the liberty to proclaim such things that is) is that i dont really try and argue details. it's pointless. 99% of people dont know details anyway and it takes way too long to navigate. when you break your leg, you want the doctor to tell you how long before you can walk on it, not how long it will take for the platelets to begin forming around the break, hardening into calcium like deposits, forming a large bond over the area, that will eventually break back down and retake its normal shape. all of that is extranious. in our fast food culture, people need fast food arguments for their fast food problems. if you can get them to relate emotionally to your point, you've 'won'. anyway, maybe you dont care what i have to say, i just for some reason felt like sharing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TURBOCAPSLOK Posted February 22, 2004 Share Posted February 22, 2004 DEANS OUT Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Don't Panic Posted February 22, 2004 Share Posted February 22, 2004 He's been out for three days now. I was surprised that no one made a thread about it...? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hank Parker Posted February 22, 2004 Share Posted February 22, 2004 Originally posted by Kr430n5_666 http://www.kak.ru/images/archive/13-14/dom/DOMdecember01_2.jpg'> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest BROWNer Posted February 22, 2004 Share Posted February 22, 2004 the point, in my view, is not whether he'll fuck up america more than bush, it's that he will keep the status quo perpetuating the massive and glaring problems. kerry is not waltzing in and all of a sudden america is funville again. it will be back to clinton style politics, covert scumbaggin' with a personable smile and trickster demeanor. its also my view that this election is totally about america. bleh. i don't agree that somebody working for real progressive change would cause more harm either. but hey, i'm not kidding myself..it's too bad shit has hit rock bottom before change happens. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
villain Posted February 22, 2004 Share Posted February 22, 2004 Originally posted by seeking its not that they necessarily need clarification, i just think if you put them in slightly more laymens terms, you could be alot more effective. id never read anything you posted till this thread, so maybe you're stupid and i hate you - i dont know yet, but just from your couple posts, you seem to know what you're talking about. now you just need to get others to know too. the reason i'm 'elequent' or well spoken in debates like this (if i may take the liberty to proclaim such things that is) is that i dont really try and argue details. it's pointless. 99% of people dont know details anyway and it takes way too long to navigate. when you break your leg, you want the doctor to tell you how long before you can walk on it, not how long it will take for the platelets to begin forming around the break, hardening into calcium like deposits, forming a large bond over the area, that will eventually break back down and retake its normal shape. all of that is extranious. in our fast food culture, people need fast food arguments for their fast food problems. if you can get them to relate emotionally to your point, you've 'won'. anyway, maybe you dont care what i have to say, i just for some reason felt like sharing. Naw, it's all good seeks. I've actually enjoyed your posts because you actually have something to say rather than bullshitting all the time. I can take some bullshitting here and there but not all the time. You are right though, I should have a more "marketable" argument, however I would like to have the interest of a more sophisticated reader like yourself as well. Perhaps I should have highlights, outlines, and or catch phrases? Hmm... Something to consider. I haven't honestly thought too much about presentation on this board and I think you are right. But I wanted to talk about Iraq, since you had brought it up earlier. Because it may be a poor example for the fact that I'm not all that sure we are actually doing anything at all over there other than guarding our own interests. Yes we've been pulling their cards and we certainly are protecting the oil well since I've heard of no incidents but other than that, from people I've talked to they've just been doing guard duty. The one guy I did talk to in civil affairs was actually pulled out EARLY. We have promised elections to the Iraqi people but even THAT has been pushed back... and I hardly think elections take priority over necessities such as the food (I read about iraqi farmers taking to the streets because of a failure there), water, and electricity. Not to mention security. It seems that "security" is our number 1 priority but how can it be secure there if people are dying and have no jobs? Essentially we seem to be pulling an Isreali jackmove at the expense of american lives. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
villain Posted February 22, 2004 Share Posted February 22, 2004 Originally posted by BROWNer i don't agree that somebody working for real progressive change would cause more harm either. but hey, i'm not kidding myself..it's too bad shit has hit rock bottom before change happens. We could actually take this argument and replace progressive, conservative, democrat, and what have you with statistics of assets and influence and get a more accurate picture of how things work in america. You can actually predict american politics by studying business! For example Afghanistan, which supposedly started all this mess, when it was invaded by the Russians, we recruited the Taliban and all the most extreme muslim fundamentalists we could find to fight the russians. Then once the "evil empire" fell in 1991 we decided to stay in Afghanistan ..... wait a minute. This is getting very detailed. Let me see if I can sum this up... Okay, really this is a power struggle beneath the surface. The two headed beast political system we have really seems to me to be about theatrics more than anything because when have we ever seen any real change? All the talk about helping this, and spending for that, more often than not is empty rhetoric aimed at keeping the people blind to what's really going on. I honestly don't think corruption of this scale would have been possible without todays systems of mass communication. Even newspapers weren't heavily monopolized until the early 1900's (by republicans btw). Only with this massive brainwashing are they capable of such evil. The real progressives never make it into the mass media. Why Ralph Nader was barely a blip on the radar. I really think progressive change is possible. Difficult but possible. Do we really need these massive, corrupt corporations? No. They obviously don't need us since they are going overseas. We could get rid of them and still take care of ourselves. We have everything we need right here. Everything. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
head south Posted February 22, 2004 Share Posted February 22, 2004 Thats a very valid point. America and particularly Bush have never been big on practicing what we preach. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ounceaddict Posted February 22, 2004 Share Posted February 22, 2004 ummm, just so YOU know bringing this up is good. We should all keep in mind the shit our people are going to be known for. BUT, thats the last I agree with you. I call for action, rather than jsut awareness. I call for action that resembles fascism. What the hell so I mean? I mean, for example, when you hear the news say 3 US soldiers died in Iraq, as Americans at home that KNOW this war is FUCKED UP, I, in my heart and mind, say "YES!!, GOOD JOB IRAQIS!!" why the fuck would I do that? Because the Iraquis ar human beings too, and the Americans are NO BETTER THAN ANY OTHER HUMAN BEING. In the case of the Iraq War, the Americans are the ones WE, as people knowing the war is bullshit, WE should hope for Iraqis to fuck our military up. There should be no respect for the military, they are doing something FUCKED UP, and jsut cause they are Americans does not mean they are right, because they are not right, they are wrong. They should be judged by God when they die, Im sure they will. How does that play into your subconcioussly brainwashed political minds? I bet subliminal messages touught you all to hate my politics. And if you know what "Aztlan" is, then feel free to tell eveyone else reading while your at it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest BROWNer Posted February 22, 2004 Share Posted February 22, 2004 i don't know if you edited my post, or i just typed that wrong, but it's should say 'has TO hit rock bottom..'.. villain, i do not take issue with details, they happen to be very important..preach on. a certain intellectual swears by the financial times to glean an accurate picture of world affairs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest BROWNer Posted February 22, 2004 Share Posted February 22, 2004 Re: ummm, just so YOU know man, that's some cold logic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
villain Posted February 22, 2004 Share Posted February 22, 2004 Yes BROWNer, I happen to think that details add weight to your argument, but what seeking was saying I think is that sometimes people are turned off by the sheer intimidation of all this information glut. Especially in our day and age, most people don't have the attention span to read a newspaper article. We want instant gratification. ounceaddict: I understand, yes we are in the wrong Bush knows this and I'm pretty sure that's why he granted our soldiers immunity from the international criminal court. And there is alot of fucked up shit going on that is not in the news. It is natural for iraqis to fight back, but alot of our troops are just following orders you know? There are very few true "boy scouts" these days. Especially after all the shenanigans Bush pulled. There is a clause in the Army Regulations that says we do not have to follow an unlawful order. But what about when the one making the orders also makes the laws? We have a problem. That is our only defense. I have thought about forming a soldiers union, which would be very helpful but I think that could be considered illegal under the fraternization regulations. We are total slaves! WE ARE PROPERTY OF THE US GOV!!! We are not even supposed to have a political opinion! But fuck that, I hate stupid rules. I'm not sure what the procedures for impeachment are but if it involves the judicial branch that is bush controlled. All of government is now republican controlled for the first time in history! Very scary implications indeed! I agree that action must be taken by the people since our own government is failing us. But people cannot take correct action without correct information. Perhaps the networking capabilities of the internet can help with that... instead of funneling all that money and energy and support into Howard Dean and henceforth the Democratic Party, maybe we should rather be supporting our own efforts of excising this cancer of a government. The only problem is that the changes we describe, the changes we desire fall under the umbrella of the democratic party, so until that illusion is shattered there will be little effectiveness. I find it hard to believe that the presidents of these vast corporations all have not an ounce of humanity left in them! Even if just one were to turn it would need just to shatter this illusion and the people can take it from there. Actually the CEO of Kyocera is very zenlike. Seems like a cool dude. Anyways.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest BROWNer Posted February 22, 2004 Share Posted February 22, 2004 i realize that, i'm saying if you want to exbound on your points in detail, i'm all ears. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
villain Posted February 22, 2004 Share Posted February 22, 2004 Hey that's cool thanks for keying in. One of the difficulties of being intellectual is that theres not many people you can actually relate with who actually understand you. I think what I was getting into about afghanistan was how the US wanted the resources of the 6 former russian provinces near there such as Tajikistan, Turkmenistan, Uzbekistan etc... and they wanted a pipeline through Afghanistan. I read in a newspaper right after our invasion of Afghanistan that we built a pipeline to the Dabhol (sp? I keep forgetting it's name) power plant built by Enron in India. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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