Eating Organic

[Syracuse99]

never saw a reason to pay more for organic food at the grocery store, plus the garden is full during this time of year. About as organic as it gets, plus more affordable.

[MAR]

One of the most balanced and thoughtful "food future" article I've come across in a long time. The future starts with us... the food consumer.

 

http://motherjones.com/environment/2009/02/spoiled-organic-and-local-so-2008

 

Important point made here:

 

"And for all our focus on the cost of moving food, transportation accounts for barely one-tenth of a food product's greenhouse gas emissions. Far more significant is how the food was produced—its so-called resource intensity. Certain foods, like meat and cheese, suck up so many resources regardless of where they're produced (a pound of conventional grain-fed beef requires nearly a gallon of fuel and 5,169 gallons of water) that you can shrink your footprint far more by changing what you eat, rather than where the food came from. According to a 2008 report from Carnegie Mellon University, going meat- and dairyless one day a week is more environmentally beneficial than eating locally every single day."

 

What you eat is as important as where your food comes from. Factory farming is here to stay, but we could do better.

 

Yeah, I know, it's from Mother Jones, but give it a chance.

Actually, the reason I posted that and subscribe to mother jones in general is because their articles tend to be well balanced. They are, in my opinion, one of the last in depth journalistic magazines.

 

They had another article which i couldn't find online written by a vegan explaining the dangers of soy and also why being vegan/vegetarian is actually worse for the environment currently.

[russell jones]

Cool, that would be a good link to post if you could find it Mar.

[angelofdeath]

The Mother Jones article makes a good point about locally grown produce at farmer's markets. Because each farmer is bringing their own truck to the market, the individual transportation costs and use of fossil fuels is higher than buying from a factory farm thousands of miles away. The factory farm and the supermarket uses big 18 wheelers, which would use less gas for the same amount of food than dozens of farmers in their own trucks.

 

I like to buy stuff at the farmer's market because its cheap, and I can have a bunch a choices for the same produce, so I can pick what I like.

 

points like this make me mock the 'local' movement as a whole even more.

its good that mother jones makes this point because if someone else (a right winger, non-far-lefty, etc) made it they would be mocked out of the argument for not caring for the environment.

 

 

your second point is the exact reason why, in my view, people SHOULD go to the farmers market. a lot of times you get better quality food and you can often find food that is a little more difficult to get from a typical super market. for instance, if im looking for roasting ear corn, i NEVER get it from a grocery store. it seems like it always sucks. while any stand on the side of the road selling it for 3 or 4 bucks a dozen is nearly always good. *enter GMO debate...... right about......NOW*

[MAR]

Cool, that would be a good link to post if you could find it Mar.

 

Here's one on the dangers of soy with a few good links in it.

 

http://motherjones.com/blue-marble/2010/04/which-veggie-burgers-contain-neurotoxin

 

I'm having trouble finding the one of meat, it might not be on the website yet because it was in this month's issue.

[russell jones]

Here's one on the dangers of soy with a few good links in it.

 

http://motherjones.com/blue-marble/2010/04/which-veggie-burgers-contain-neurotoxin

 

I'm having trouble finding the one of meat, it might not be on the website yet because it was in this month's issue.

 

 

Thanks MAR. It seems somewhat silly to remove the fat from soy burgers, since most of the people who eat them are eating very low fat diets and the fats in soy are generally beneficial fats. My philosophy is that fat is not a bad thing. I wanted to lose weight, so I ate less. It is simple as that.

[russell jones]

for instance, if im looking for roasting ear corn, i NEVER get it from a grocery store. it seems like it always sucks. while any stand on the side of the road selling it for 3 or 4 bucks a dozen is nearly always good. *enter GMO debate...... right about......NOW*

 

I'll skip the GMO debate, however, my parents always agreed with you. My father would always buy corn on the way home from work from a farmer who would set up shop on the side of the road. It was always the "sweetest" according to him.

 

The only thing I can say about GMO and corn is that the debate is over, now we have to deal with the possible consequences, there is no stopping GMO's getting into all corn.

[MAR]

GMO's are a tricky topic. The evidence against them is limited and so is the documentation on their impact. There is an obvious benefit in third world countries, but that implies the countries can afford the expense.

 

The only seriously scary argument is the one against the "terminator" seeds. These are seeds that are genetically engineered to produce sterile seeds next crop. Theoretically, its to prevent cross-pollination but its obvious that the seed companies can use it for other purposes.

[russell jones]

The only seriously scary argument is the one against the "terminator" seeds. These are seeds that are genetically engineered to produce sterile seeds next crop. Theoretically, its to prevent cross-pollination but its obvious that the seed companies can use it for other purposes.

 

When I was an undergraduate, I had a student from Tanzania in my class whose grandmother was duped into buying the 'terminator" seeds. They sold it by advertising greater yields, which was true, but neglected to mention that they would not seed and that she would have to buy seeds from them every year.

[angelofdeath]

GMO's are a tricky topic. The evidence against them is limited and so is the documentation on their impact. There is an obvious benefit in third world countries, but that implies the countries can afford the expense.

 

The only seriously scary argument is the one against the "terminator" seeds. These are seeds that are genetically engineered to produce sterile seeds next crop. Theoretically, its to prevent cross-pollination but its obvious that the seed companies can use it for other purposes.

 

yeah, i dont know to much about GMO's or the terminator seeds thing.

food inc was recommended for me to watch, so i started watching it, but had to turn it off after salatin was on there.i couldnt stomach it any more. so i dont know the whole monsanto thing etc etc. although a good friend of mine said that the whole terminator seed thing was a violation of the farmers rights. but unless there was actual fraud or there is something i dont know about these seeds, i dont see any actual rights violations

[Slavicgrip]

please refer to penn & teller: bullshit for answers to organic food.

[cunt sauce]

jeeez...

i know i've been known to shut a thread down in my time, but i didnt even get one small response???

wth

 

 

 

im about to check out that link russ....

 

sorry man, interesting stuff to talk about, but i really dont have time right now,............. i will be back.

[GucciCondom]

[srebmun]

I don't have the time to read this one, but I started to, and the crux of everyone's argument is that organic can't feed everybody on the plant, well, what can? Corporate ag is having trouble with just feeding it's sheep, the Americans!

[angelofdeath]

ok, i'll bite. i'll elaborate on my position.

my original statements eluding to the position of 'organic cant feed the world' was based more on the reductio of the ideal situation of every family producing their own food. which is just a pipe dream, ludditism and would demolish the living standard everyone in the 20th and 21st century worked to give us.

 

the market in food is severely distorted due to subsidies, regulations, and various paternalistic market interventions. so it is a little hard to actually come out and say 'organic cant feed the world.' the current status quo and stats show that organic food production couldnt feed everyone.

but this does NOT take into account the fact that if we lifted regulations governing all aspects of the food industry, you would have an explosion of entrepreneurs into the market place. for instance, grass finished beef isnt competitive against grain finished beef due to various regulations. if you are looking for a local food system, regulations have made it illegal for a cattle producer who feeds only grass to slaughter a cow on his property to sell to his neighbor. he has to cart the cow, dozens or hundreds of miles away to be thrown in with other cows of possibly dubious extraction and hope that he gets the right meat back. then drive it all back home in order to hand to his neighbor over the fence. in essence you cannot process a t bone steak unless you wrap it around in a half a million dollar processing facility. who benefits in this situation due the regulations of the food market? big ag or the little farmer whose food you really want?

so if the grass farmer didnt have to do all this, instead of 20$ a pound for filet mignon, it might only be 14$ which is fairly competitive to a super market filet, and it has the added quality of having low bad fats and high CLA all of which equal lower cholesterol, etc. so then you have an actual choice.

 

if you removed the subsidies on corn and took away the sugar tariffs, corn syrup usage would not be as profitable. if you removed subsidies making corn reflect a market price, they would probably by and large stop feeding it to cows for instance.

 

the problem with the organic movement is the need to try to tell people what is good for them. the food inc/foodie solution seems to be further restrict business by more regulations that are the cause of most of the problems then subsidize organic food making it cheaper. this is nonsense on stilts. if it cant survive by its self on the open market then it shouldnt be subsidized. it should go the way of the do do bird. you can see some of this already by sellers at farmers markets having to take welfare/food stamps/independence cards/etc for the produce. what needs to be done is remove restrictions on food. get rid of the USDA... the same ideology that forbids you from using heroine is the same ideology that tells you you cant drink raw milk or pastured eggs if they have a speck on them. the same regulatory body also says coca cola and rice krispies are great for you but beef produced by your neighbor in a non regulated facility or chickens processed in the open air that are 5 times as clean will kill you.

we must realize that some consumers WANT to eat junk. its that simple. let them eat junk if they want to. the big producers and companies are merely responding to consumer need. look... the same response to consumer need has walmart being a super large distributor of organic foods and selling yogurt whose company has a commie as the CEO. there is no need to be as preachy as the organic movement is. if you want to convince someone to start eating better, just get them to stop eating junk. tell them to eat whole foods (pardon the pun). get them to stop eating potato chips, coke and boxed foods. its that simple. once they get that accomplished, then you can take it to another level. but discussing the merits of organic cookies with regular cookies is absolutely silly... both are equally as bad for you. let alone most of the people who harp on organic foods so much usually smoke or drink in large amounts. even funnier is drinking shitty ass beer where high fructose corn syrup is used. but this doesnt count they say. any difference in health benefits you get from 'organic cookies' instead of corn syrup cookies is instantly negated by the fact that most of these hipster types live in a down town environment and as soon as they walk out of their house the air pollution is hurting their bodies more than any change from normal junk food to organic junk food.

 

look for answers from the bottom up not the top down.

[Delse]