Juan Fuentes Posted November 24, 2007 Share Posted November 24, 2007 no revolution in venezuela!!! you must be blind! o debes ser escuálido encubierto... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
estrik Posted November 25, 2007 Share Posted November 25, 2007 ningunasolo vivo en venezuela y se como sonlas cosas Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MayorMeanBeans Posted November 26, 2007 Share Posted November 26, 2007 http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/7112424.stm Mr Chavez said that the decision to end his mediation role was "a spit in the face" and denounced Mr Uribe as a liar. In response, Mr Uribe said Mr Chavez wants Colombia to "become the victim of the terrorist government of the Farc". "I declare before the world that I'm putting relations with Colombia in the freezer because I've completely lost confidence with everyone in the Colombian government," said Mr Chavez during a televised speech. "The companies that Colombians have over here, the companies we have over there - all of that will be damaged," he told his cabinet. In announcing the "freeze" in relations with Colombia, Mr Chavez compared the situation to his recent diplomatic row with Spain, which was triggered when the Spanish King, Juan Carlos, told him to "shut up" at a summit meeting in Chile. "It's like the case of Spain: until the king of Spain apologizes, I'm freezing relations with Spain," he said. The French President, Nicolas Sarkozy, has urged Mr Uribe to reconsider his decision to end Mr Chavez's role. President Sarkozy has taken a particular interest in the issue, because one of the hostages - Ingrid Betancourt - holds French citizenship. Mr Sarkozy said he believed the Venezuelan leader was still the best person to broker an exchange. Relatives of Farc-held hostages expressed shock and grief at the end of Mr Chavez's participation as dozens gathered near the presidential palace in Bogota to protest on Thursday. "We thought it was very brave what President Chavez did in three months compared to what the government has failed to do in 10 years," Jose Uriel Perez, whose nephew was taken by Farc in 1998, told AP. "Nothing touches this government - not the deaths, nor our mourning, nor the pain the families of the kidnapped live with." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Juan Fuentes Posted November 26, 2007 Share Posted November 26, 2007 heres the video http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X_PLfc1R21s in Spanish though, for those who want to hear all what Chavez said about the issue, which was more than what BBC stated. because we know how some journalists and news agencies tend to quote the parts that benefit their cause, or lets say, the negative parts of the speeches. eventhough that is always what they do, you cant twist what happened with Uribe's decision on this hostage exchange situation which was going very good. talking about foreign pressure("plan Colombia")...the hostage exchange would not only bring people to their homes but it will soften things in colombia which is a country with years of drug wars, creating a decrease of the fear Colombian people have because of all the terrorism in their country. also a political image boost for Chavez and his government, and the new world order cant accept that. Chavez also said: peace in Colombia is bad for the CIA, because they use that as a reason to stay in that area. Uribe didn't even call Chavez, didn't even showed his face until some days after. cancelled, all and all because of a call that wasn't even political. Chavez called him a liar, and said that Colombia deserves a better president, a decent president. Spain's king saying sorry to Chavez! i would love to see that...seems very hard though Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MayorMeanBeans Posted November 27, 2007 Share Posted November 27, 2007 its all politics homie- releasing hostages shows the nice side of farc, which colombia doesnt want. admitting that uribe would be willing to meet farc, without him being able to spin it to his populace, makes him look weak/ legitimizes the farc, two things a war time president does not want. the cia is in there worddddddd? cuz thats definitely been helping the drug trafficking problem........:lol: sometimes fuentes i feel like you're so narrow sighted mang it infuriates me. im far too busy to get into one of my usual rants though. still waiting on those statistics that prove that the revolution is happening....... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MayorMeanBeans Posted November 27, 2007 Share Posted November 27, 2007 i will say one more thing though. stereotype has caught shit for saying things that are more or less in line with the bush/nwo doctrine, people calling him spokesmen etc. you're more or less a blind mouthpiece of the opposite side of this here game, so what does that make you? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WORDISM45 Posted November 27, 2007 Share Posted November 27, 2007 who are you referring to buddy? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Juan Fuentes Posted November 27, 2007 Share Posted November 27, 2007 i never knew you were waiting for the stats, i must have missed it. i'll see what i can do about it. narrow minded are you for me, and im narrow minded for you. it will never end if we rant about it. please dont try it, i wont read it, it's a waste of time for you and me. of course the CIA been helping the drug business, or you believe them? you see, we have a problem there...... dont have to know 100% about something to know that something takes place in reality. that explains the pointless life some of us have. sometimes i wonder the day you find out, would you think it was all luck and people were speculating or they trully knew? one question though... you think what Uribe did was right? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Juan Fuentes Posted November 27, 2007 Share Posted November 27, 2007 stats i cant seem to find yet, but i have something better. i got some links, and videos, showing you, which you can verify. of course charts are good, but they also can be exaggerated. you have to follow the process in Venezuela to know there is a change, if you dont know it's because you get your news from the nwo's owned news agencies who focus in all the negatives and baseless insults filled with fear mongering speculation. _______________________ Mision Barrio Adentro. wiki article: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mission_Barrio_Adentro (ENGLISH) also MISION VIVIENDA Y HABITAT is the creation of houses(the price depends on your income) that it is given to the poorest of the people. a video with some images of the villages the revolution has created: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EFZKuKjf700 Mission Robinson: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mission_Robinson (ENGLISH) The program uses volunteers to teach reading, writing, and arithmetic to the more than 1.5 million Venezuelan adults who were illiterate prior to Chávez's election to the presidency in 1999. and they not only apply that in Venezuela, they helped other Latin American countries. another great video full of achievements http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4D13cDCNkjk dont want to bomb you with links and videos. you should research it yourself. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MayorMeanBeans Posted November 28, 2007 Share Posted November 28, 2007 http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/7117287.stm The US news channel CNN says it regrets a production mistake which Venezuelan President Hugo Chavez said could encourage assassination attempts. On Monday, CNN's service in Spanish put up a caption reading "Who killed him?" over a report about Mr Chavez. The caption - which was quickly removed - came from another story about the death of an American football star. Mr Chavez has urged Venezuelan prosecutors to consider legal action against CNN. He showed footage of the incident repeatedly during a two-hour appearance on the Venezuelan state television channel. In a statement, CNN said its presenter had immediately made clear on air that there had been a mistake. The channel said it would also broadcast further on-air clarifications of the incident. It is not the first time Mr Chavez has attacked CNN, which he has accused of being involved in a campaign by Washington to destabilise Venezuela. CNN denies that its reporting is biased and says it has no links to the US government. Tense referendum Mr Chavez is campaigning for a referendum on Sunday on a series of constitutional reforms, which include a measure that would allow him to be re-elected indefinitely. Opinion polls suggest it could be the closest contest Mr Chavez has faced since he became president in 1999. In his television appearance, Mr Chavez warned of "destabilisation plans" and said that "a gang of fascists" must not stop "the march of history". He said the security forces were ready and urged his supporters to turn out to vote in large numbers. "We are going to win cleanly", Mr Chavez said. University students are leading the opposition to the constitutional reform plans. They accuse Mr Chavez of seeking to take away basic freedoms and trying to stay in power permanently. --------------------------------------------------------- hmm indeed, incitement to violence right? fuentes videos are not more convincing of socio-economic conditions than statistics put out by development agencies. i would take undp stats over "the revolution will not be televised", 364 out of 365 days a year (i can watch a movie one day a year). stats themselves aren't spun, its the context in which they are introduced that are spun. i never answered your question about uribe.... and i do think what he did was right. its never a good idea to have high profile negotiators in instances like these, because theres no further recourse in the event that they fail. moreover, the only reason chavez was in there was bc uribe asked him to be. would you be mad if you were invited into your friends house, and when they got tired they asked you to leave? of course not. moreover, when chavez is leaking information like uribe willing to meeting with farc leadership (a HUGE concession in a 40 year war), then his utility to the govt is declining. right or wrong is one question. whether or not its good or bad for the political situation is another (of course releasing hostages is an honorable thing, but what does it do for the conflict in a bigger context??). ps. if there truly is a revolution going on, why is this referendum the most closely held election since chavez has come to power? is it because 'campaigns of misinformation by the revolution's enemy?' is chavez not fulfilling his election mandate? are people just not willing to see one person in power for life?? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Juan Fuentes Posted November 29, 2007 Share Posted November 29, 2007 http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/7117287.stm The US news channel CNN says it regrets a production mistake which Venezuelan President Hugo Chavez said could encourage assassination attempts. On Monday, CNN's service in Spanish put up a caption reading "Who killed him?" over a report about Mr Chavez. The caption - which was quickly removed - came from another story about the death of an American football star. Mr Chavez has urged Venezuelan prosecutors to consider legal action against CNN. He showed footage of the incident repeatedly during a two-hour appearance on the Venezuelan state television channel. In a statement, CNN said its presenter had immediately made clear on air that there had been a mistake. The channel said it would also broadcast further on-air clarifications of the incident. It is not the first time Mr Chavez has attacked CNN, which he has accused of being involved in a campaign by Washington to destabilize Venezuela. CNN denies that its reporting is biased and says it has no links to the US government. i saw a video yesterday, from "la hojilla" where Chavez was in the show, and he was shown this weird mistake. you seen it menino? (for anything related to the revolution, aporrea youtube channel helps a lot -Spanish-) it could be many things, speculating will do no good, but you will have doubts when these events take place in a channel like CNN. haven't you heard, CNN showed Mexico's Oaxaca protest images and said that it was Venezuela against Chavez, then the next day they had this reporter woman giving a quick apology because of the incident. come on, CNN, should know what they are doing...coincidences do not exist. Tense referendum Mr Chavez is campaigning for a referendum on Sunday on a series of constitutional reforms, which include a measure that would allow him to be re-elected indefinitely. Opinion polls suggest it could be the closest contest Mr Chavez has faced since he became president in 1999. In his television appearance, Mr Chavez warned of "destabilization plans" and said that "a gang of fascists" must not stop "the march of history". He said the security forces were ready and urged his supporters to turn out to vote in large numbers. "We are going to win cleanly", Mr Chavez said. University students are leading the opposition to the constitutional reform plans. They accuse Mr Chavez of seeking to take away basic freedoms and trying to stay in power permanently. he said he wants to stay in power for some more years to change things to a point it wont have a return to the old Venezuela. give power to the people so there will be no chance for the elite to take it back. basic freedoms will not be taken away, just read the referendum, see it for yourself, those "students" are nothing but manipulated by the media, big time. there are videos of Chavez's supporters going out to the streets, interviewing people of the opposition about the reform and they get all tongue tied they dont know 1% of what is in there. lie or just say something not real due to their ignorance of it. Chavez is needed, i myself didn't think unlimited reelection was needed but without an intelligent leader like Chavez people will be divided and conquered. he truly is not a charlatan, he surprised me with all that he knows when he talks, and i always hated politicians, but this man is an exception. just like Ron Paul, with the American people, you know they almost lost hope on politics and Ron Paul is now awakening a movement of freedom. you can call it a phenomenon, because in the worst times people like these come out like they never have been before in history. --------------------------------------------------------- hmm indeed, incitement to violence right? fuentes videos are not more convincing of socio-economic conditions than statistics put out by development agencies. i would take undp stats over "the revolution will not be televised", 364 out of 365 days a year (i can watch a movie one day a year). so you believe other people not your eyes and ears? OK then. I'm just telling you that is wrong. (the videos i posted up there aren't more than 5 6 7 maybe 8 minutes, short ones) stats themselves aren't spun, its the context in which they are introduced that are spun. i never answered your question about uribe.... and i do think what he did was right. its never a good idea to have high profile negotiators in instances like these, because theres no further recourse in the event that they fail. moreover, the only reason Chavez was in there was bc uribe asked him to be you are wrong, senator piedad Cordoba asked Chavez on a "alo presidente" show and Chavez agreed to cooperate, then Cordoba went to uribe and he accepted, then uribe quits because of a call, come on menino, you know very little about the revolution, thats why you are against it, because you hear the resume of liars and believe it, check it yourself and you'll be appreciating the choice the majority of Venezuelans took in the ballots . would you be mad if you were invited into your friends house, and when they got tired they asked you to leave? of course not. moreover, when Chavez is leaking information like uribe willing to meeting with farc leadership (a HUGE concession in a 40 year war), then his utility to the govt is declining. right or wrong is one question. whether or not its good or bad for the political situation is another (of course releasing hostages is an honorable thing, but what does it do for the conflict in a bigger context??). the picture is bigger than that, everyone in Colombia knows uribe is a paramilitary figure, what can someone expect from that ps. if there truly is a revolution going on, why is this referendum the most closely held election since Chavez has come to power? is it because 'campaigns of misinformation by the revolution's enemy?' is Chavez not fulfilling his election mandate? are people just not willing to see one person in power for life?? with a referendum there is change, a revolution means there will be changes, what more revolutionary than to make new laws to benefit the citizens? the unlimited reelection is for anyone not for Chavez only, so as long as the people want it Chavez will or will not be in power. let the people choose, be democratic. ... 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MayorMeanBeans Posted November 29, 2007 Share Posted November 29, 2007 okay so there are no coincidences (im still on about this cnn thing), so they put the sean taylor on, then the chavez in that exact order, so they could 'screw up', when it was really jsut a hidden code to tell an 'enemy of the revolution' that this was the time to assassinate chavez, right? and chavez 'foiled the plot' when he called out cnn? oh i almost forgot the motive. cnn did it cuz they're working together with the cia, and the cia wanted the most inconspicuous way to let the assassin know!! :lol: in all seriousness though, chavez fucked up a fair a mount with FARC, considering that he had to have known that uribes father was killed by them. uribe said don't talk to his generals, chavez did. uribe doesn't trust chavez, ideological opposites and all that. is it ignorant to say that the roughly 50% of the people who don't support chavez' referendum is "those "students" are nothing but manipulated by the media, big time. " if you looked at every single finding regarding politicized parts of the population, you would realize that students are typically far and away the most astute voters. they read more, talk more, and think more about politics than any other part of the population. who's manipulating them? i would argue that poor people that are coming out the slums en masse to all these rallies are more manipulated. ask a starving person, do you want food????? of course they're going to come out by the 100,000. but as estrik said, things have not gotten better. you can't find a single statistic that says otherwise. i don't need to watch pictures of 250,000 starving people shouting, WE WANT BREAD to convince me that yes, they want it. When you tell me that Chavez hanging out in the jungle with FARC rebels trying to get a French woman out, when his people are starving, is getting the job done? moreover, you tell me that giving unlimited elections to chavez is helping the people out. No one is being helped by him being the president. you are referring to his policies. and his policies do not have to be implemented by him. it is never a good idea to have unlimited elections. i refuse to concede that for so many reasons. ive listed them elsewhere in this thread, you've never really disputed them but i dont know if you just passed over them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Juan Fuentes Posted November 29, 2007 Share Posted November 29, 2007 i got you the stats http://www.ine.gov.ve/tripticos/menuboletines.asp read them check out the videos i previously posted read the referendum watch Venezuelan TV on youtube think for yourself, be skeptical, see the connections learn more about the bolivarian revolution and then rethink what you are talking about because you are way off. really, i tried to educate you on the revolution but you only came back with sarcasm, jokes, pessimism, nwo owned sources and a great ignorance of the situation and history in Venezuela and in Latin America. I'll probably post after December 2nd to update on some news. make sure to pay more attention to it, start from the bottom up, dont think reviews will tell you all about what is happening, it takes time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
estrik Posted November 29, 2007 Share Posted November 29, 2007 hey juan fuentes as i said before im from venezuela im livin here and always have. and let me just tell you something abput those "missions" since you eliminate everyones arguments here by telling them that they dont know as much asyou about the so called "bolivarian revolution" so.. getting to the point.. mision barrio adentro: in the surface sound great. creating health centers on the barrios for the poor people. now lets see who´s on this centers. cuban doctors that don´t known the half about medicine because they are totally unprepared and make basic mistakes like reciping aspirin for a kid with dengue. now i dont know if you know this but since you seem to know so much.. taking aspirin while having dengue is a really bad idea... the virus can react taking your fever to 41 or more.. and you can die... in this particular case the kid died so.. yeah great achievment right there... that´s just one of the many examples. mision robison.. sounds great right? givin education to adults who couldnt even finish highschool... now lets see how this its done.. adults who havent finish highschool and that havent studied for a long long time go to class for a year and a half and get their diploma and an automatic enter to the university... how do you think they are going to do in college?? whit only a year and a half of basic education?? obviusly pretty bad so now you have universities packed with people that cant even finish first semester because they are poorly educated from the base... so yes greeeeat achievment.. instead of going to the root of the problem which is public highschools (these are practicly prisons, profesors are so under paid they barely go to class and it takes students a looogn time to graduate most of them dont.).. lets just pack the universities with people that barely can read. i guess all the time you have dedicated to "research" about venezuela hasnt been enough.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MayorMeanBeans Posted November 29, 2007 Share Posted November 29, 2007 fuentes you my friend have sunk your own ship. the "nwo sources" of the statistical dept of venezuela gave me the following numbers regarding "social deficiencies" (loosely translated): Niños 7 a 12 años que no asisten a la escuela 78,840 88,558 84,032 83,618 93,281 105,742 110,043 91,034 Porcentaje (%) 1.7 1.8 1.7 1.7 1.8 1.9 1.9 1.5 Hacinamiento crítico 629,183 713,226 745,712 765,311 737,382 942,043 950,592 941,844 Porcentaje (%) 13.7 14.6 15.0 15.3 14.1 16.4 16.2 15.7 Viviendas inadecuadas 222,857 319,385 294,599 286,081 283,553 544,816 541,120 528,209 Porcentaje (%) 4.9 6.6 5.9 5.7 5.4 9.5 9.2 8.8 Sin servicios básicos 664,485 762,775 729,242 783,350 730,173 987,434 952,988 941,868 Porcentaje (%) 17.6 15.7 14.7 15.7 14.0 17.1 16.3 15.7 Alta dependencia económica 316,460 300,166 317,352 324,350 312,434 325,709 321,605 323,179 Porcentaje (%) 6.9 6.2 6.4 6.5 6.0 5.7 5.5 5.4 ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- okay just before we analyze, can we both agree that chavez's statistical office is not going to nwo-ize the stats and make them up right? okay- the percentage of people living in shanties has INCREASED. from 4.9 to 8.8 % of the population (just more voters for chavez, right). everything else fluctuates, its hard to put a significant trend on any of that data. that means, NO DEVELOPMENTS. btw- i only opened socio-economic statistics, but feel free to see how well the tourism industry was doing.... we talked abotu schools. until 2004 (the latest year statistics are available), the number of kids under 12 not in school had INCREASED. he has reduced a fair amount the number of people who are economically dependent on the state/family for survival but that makes sense considering that he is just transferring oil wealth to the poor, giving that money a one time use (that is, once its gone, its gone there's no further transferrals in the market place, like, say, a micro-credit agency) - everyone here who is concerned about capitalism's horrible effect on the third world needs to a crash course in micro-credit asap. now that is a real revolution. finally, it seems like 2002 was a shitty year all around for venezuela. you would argue that this was because of the coup. i think an equally plausible argument without further research would be that the coup happened because of the economic situation. it is more consistent with other instances of military coups in history (thailand last year, every coup ever in the 1930s, south korea in the late 50s/early 60s etc.). these statistics just told me what i need to know abotu the effectiveness of the bolivarian revolution. maybe when i don't have school i'll read more about its ideological assertions, but those i guarantee you are hardly revolutionary (lemme guess- our borders were socially constructed by imperialists, the international system is designed to keep us in poverty because of unequal trade exchanges, and if we unite, we'll be able to subvert this brutal cycle of poverty)- check out every supra-national movement and you'll find these assertions there. but yeah- its revoutionary :rolleyes:. ps. what does hacinamiento mean? i've never seen that word before. edit--- it won't let me post the numbers in the chart the way it was before. but you can see it in its original excel form at Indicadores de necesidades básicas insastisfechas . ( http://www.ine.gov.ve/reportesocial/infanexareporte.zip ) have fun. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MayorMeanBeans Posted November 29, 2007 Share Posted November 29, 2007 update- i just asked my boy and he said hacinamiento means overcrowding. therefore, critical overcrowding (i would assume slums and highrises only qualify for that term) has increased as well. VIVA SIMON BOLIVAR Y VIVA HUGO CHAVEZ! ADELANTE!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
estrik Posted November 30, 2007 Share Posted November 30, 2007 that´s right hacinamiento means for example 10 people livin in a one bedroom rancho or for example waht happens opn most barrios wich is ranchos over ranchos over ranchos great way of living huh and numbers are just going up.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MayorMeanBeans Posted November 30, 2007 Share Posted November 30, 2007 10s of thousands of cia operatives. damn those cia fools. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Juan Fuentes Posted November 30, 2007 Share Posted November 30, 2007 hahahahahahahaha http://www.aporrea.org/actualidad/n105564.html Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Juan Fuentes Posted November 30, 2007 Share Posted November 30, 2007 yeah and they didn't forget about doing this... download the short video here, the pacifist students showing their peace. http://www.aporrea.org/oposicion/n105549.html <------ for 8 seconds it aired by "mistake"(you all would love that Chavez gets killed, come on say it) "who killed him" DONT EVEN TRY IT Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
estrik Posted November 30, 2007 Share Posted November 30, 2007 that aporrea article is a bunch of crap i was there... you couldnt even walk cause the street was so packed... people stayed till 8 or 9 oclock and there was like 5 buses on a paralel avenue thats it... great sources juan fuentes... keep it up jajajaja Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MayorMeanBeans Posted November 30, 2007 Share Posted November 30, 2007 fuentes no reply to the stats? hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm plus, you really honestly believe that the cnn were trying to get him assassinated by their headline? that is such a naive thing to think, its almost maddening. and sean taylor was killed so that they could make this 'cia blunder' right?? http://www.nytimes.com/2007/11/30/world/americas/30venez.html?_r=1&ref=world&oref=slogin check out this article. i know i know, another nwo source. but it raises an important question: sundays referendum gives unprecedented centralzied power to chavez, in the form of calling unlimited states of emergency, censoring news organizations, and the ability to suspend rights of due process (trial by jury). chavistas say these powers would never be called anyway, but why try to get them if you don't plan to use them? and isn't it hypocritical for chavistas to admonish bush for suspending rights of due process (gitmo), while supporting someone who is campaigning for that very ability???? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Juan Fuentes Posted December 1, 2007 Share Posted December 1, 2007 the stats are the stats and you are wrong about them, you didn't read them well. CNN is not trying to get him murdered, it is not so black and white like you see it. you cant think freely so you would never understand how the new world order operates. i read the new york times article. it doesn't raise any questions, it is just speculation and lies. Sunday people are voting YES. and YES is winning. that's a lot of people, not the picture up there you showed with a really low angle of shooting. no doubt it looks packed. how they say... patria , socialismo o muerte , venceremos! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MayorMeanBeans Posted December 1, 2007 Share Posted December 1, 2007 rock on fuentes.... how was i reading stats wrong? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Juan Fuentes Posted December 3, 2007 Share Posted December 3, 2007 the results surprised me. it surprised many people on Venezuela. the number of people on the Chavez side is way more than the opposition, but they weren't aware of the reform and that's why many didn't vote. the country wasn't prepared, so after all it was a good thing that it didn't get approved, although i would have voted yes, the results don't push me down because is what God willed. now the good part is that this will bring great task for Venezuelans to take people out of power who many of them are on lazy-mode. Venezuelans always said Chavez is surrounded by a bunch of indecisive, ignorant people. the PSUV is also full of disorganized people. and because of the voting results will make Venezuelans make a tune up to their machine. plus Chavez still has the power till 2013, so God willing he will stay alive all those years to move his country forward creating conscience. he is very intelligent, also did a lot to explain the reform himself. ____________ I'm thinking....will the opposition would want to bring the other articles that they liked? that would be a smart move from them because it will make their hearts a little closer to the revolution(it's their manipulated emotions or/and anti-social behavior that pushed them away), but that would be half of the opposition, about the other half would still obey higher orders. ____________ time will tell. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
estrik Posted December 3, 2007 Share Posted December 3, 2007 lovin all your excuses... the fact is the reform wasnt approved because Venezuela didnt want it and thats it. Now Chavez has to go away on 2012 so i guess we are getting to the end of this crappy government. finally. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MayorMeanBeans Posted December 3, 2007 Share Posted December 3, 2007 fuentes i hear what your saying, as far as them getting their popularity increased in the polity. however from a strictly theoretical sense, this was a major victory for venezuela, all politics aside. it says a lot of chavez, to have an open election and be willing to concede the results. it also greatly increases the chances of a democratic changeover in 2013. and again, i dont think that this indicates a majority of people are against chavez necessarily, i think its that people were wary of the more controversial amendments put forth (ending autonomy of the central bank, for example). however i will say this, i think chavistas need to reaugment their strategy towards the people, they are obviously alienating a large segment of them, if their supporters didn't even know there was a vote (btw, this is a bullshit excuse). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thecoldmidwest Posted December 3, 2007 Share Posted December 3, 2007 I don't live in Venezuela, and I've never been to Latin America. But from what I know, anything that bush/cia back, isn't good for that country. From what I've heard about Chavez, he's fighting balls out for his country against big bullys like the United States. Thats why everyone in our media hates him. From what I've seen he's keeping his country from the greedy hands of our government. Good for him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MayorMeanBeans Posted December 3, 2007 Share Posted December 3, 2007 ^too much hollywood my man. things are never that cut and dry. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thecoldmidwest Posted December 3, 2007 Share Posted December 3, 2007 ^too much hollywood my man. things are never that cut and dry. I would have guessed that hollywood would be againt Chavez, seeing how hollywood is 80% Jewish. I wouldn't know anyhow since I never watch tv... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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