sleepyceas2- Posted April 25, 2005 Share Posted April 25, 2005 if america "fell", i dont think that it would be a total fall. as in we wouldnt be sent back. just like every other country that had an empire they still exist and do it well. we would be minimized in world importance, most likely countries like china will dominate. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ledzep Posted April 25, 2005 Share Posted April 25, 2005 ^agreed I think America will fall more like the British Empire than the Roman Empire. China and the EU will probably take its place. I don't know, I have to get back to work. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
carlojensen Posted April 25, 2005 Share Posted April 25, 2005 read an article today about how the whole world is heading towards another economic depression and that GM is about to go bankrupt and how the current monetary system is screwed and how in order to move forward the world needs to go back to the old system although i cant quite remember what that was... however the article was pretty biased. however if such a depression does occur, im keen for becoming a self sustaining hermit in the bushland, growing vegies and smoking myself into oblivion caveman styles... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
angelofdeath Posted April 25, 2005 Share Posted April 25, 2005 i dont see us falling to ruin in our lifetimes. i know alot of the people on here are pretty liberal. that being said if you have an open mind and would open up the book, you must read "A republic not an empire" by patrick buchanan. its from an "Old Right" conservative, not a Neo Con. He argues that in wars past we practiced Isolationism as long as possible, and our foreign policy was dictated by our enemies, (i.e. Japan bombing pearl harbor.) we didnt engage in no win wars early on, and entered only when ABSOLUTELY necessary. for example arguably we contributed the most to winning WW2, and yet we suffered the least amount of casualties. ah... if we would of only elected buchanan in 2000.......... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest sneak Posted April 26, 2005 Share Posted April 26, 2005 Originally posted by angelofdeath@Apr 25 2005, 12:36 PM . for example arguably we contributed the most to winning WW2, and yet we suffered the least amount of casualties. ah... if we would of only elected buchanan in 2000.......... Quoted post arguably, the soldiers of the allie forces who were involved THROUGHOUT THE WAR, NOT JUST AT THE END contributed to us winning the war. just perhaps. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
villain Posted April 26, 2005 Share Posted April 26, 2005 Originally posted by angelofdeath@Apr 25 2005, 07:36 AM i dont see us falling to ruin in our lifetimes. i know alot of the people on here are pretty liberal. that being said if you have an open mind and would open up the book, you must read "A republic not an empire" by patrick buchanan. its from an "Old Right" conservative, not a Neo Con. He argues that in wars past we practiced Isolationism as long as possible, and our foreign policy was dictated by our enemies, (i.e. Japan bombing pearl harbor.) we didnt engage in no win wars early on, and entered only when ABSOLUTELY necessary. for example arguably we contributed the most to winning WW2, and yet we suffered the least amount of casualties. ah... if we would of only elected buchanan in 2000.......... Quoted post Well you know, Buchanan is right. This is the exact reason why Europe is doing so well right now is because they are taking the position that the pre-1945 US took, and that's to focus inward on economic and social issues and make yourself a strong country. Just being a strong country is enough to be influential on the international scene.... especially in this age of increased interdependence. As for WW2, I believe most historians agree that it was the Russians who contributed the most to winning WW2. They took Germany for the most part. We just bombed the shit out of it sporadically, targeting civilians which was nominally effective. Other than a handful of other major battles in the European theater. Our major contribution in WW2 was in the Pacific theater. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
angelofdeath Posted April 26, 2005 Share Posted April 26, 2005 Originally posted by villain@Apr 25 2005, 08:19 PM As for WW2, I believe most historians agree that it was the Russians who contributed the most to winning WW2. They took Germany for the most part. We just bombed the shit out of it sporadically, targeting civilians which was nominally effective. Other than a handful of other major battles in the European theater. Our major contribution in WW2 was in the Pacific theater. Quoted post true, however if you read my whole statement as one, we contributed the most with the least amount of casualties. we will never know what would happen if we didnt enter. i would hope Hitler would of fell, but its only speculation. we did contribute the most in the pacific obviously, but dont forget who took the allies across the channel. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ledzep Posted April 26, 2005 Share Posted April 26, 2005 Originally posted by villain@Apr 25 2005, 09:19 PM As for WW2, I believe most historians agree that it was the Russians who contributed the most to winning WW2. They took Germany for the most part. We just bombed the shit out of it sporadically, targeting civilians which was nominally effective. Other than a handful of other major battles in the European theater. Our major contribution in WW2 was in the Pacific theater. Quoted post You do have to take into account the amount of Aid the U.S. gave the allies before and during the war. If it wasn't for this aid, Britain would have probably fallen, or at least been left in a very poor fighting condition.And had the U.S. not gotten into North Africa, the Germans would have probably beaten the British, and thus been able to concentrate more of thier energies on the Russians. And if the Japanese wouldn't have been busy with the Americans, they probably would have eventually invaded Russia too. So though i think that the Russians did the most fighting, and did contribute alot (alot more than we were taught in grade school at least), I think the U.S. contributed the most. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
villain Posted April 26, 2005 Share Posted April 26, 2005 I think you are underestimating the russians. The Germans suffered heavy, heavy losses when they tried to invade russia. This is essentially why Gehlen had such a powerful underground network in Russia... Because the army was wiped out and they were forced to go underground. This is also where the Werewolves come from, which was essentially the beginnings of modern assymetrical warfare. In fact it was remnants of them, and SS that created the Fedayeen in Egypt. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
porque Posted April 27, 2005 Share Posted April 27, 2005 ...there was a book that came out near the end of last year where it was argued that the EU will very soon surpass the US as the world's super power, or at least share the role...it all boils down to how well the EU can act as one group instead of a bucnh of seperate countries...the first real victory being the EURO surpassing the dollar in value...the Eu has a larger GNP than the US, thus giving it more power in the economic world...the EU has spent that last years building their nations to be stronger and more productive...meanwhile, the US has been waging wars in other countrys for the past four years, with no sign of stopping, while the economy has consistently dwindled... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ledzep Posted April 27, 2005 Share Posted April 27, 2005 I'm not saying that the Russians didn't play a huge part in defeating the Germans (I doubt that the Germans could have been beaten without thier help), but all things considered, the Allied victory owes more to the Americans. Also, you have to remember that both sides suffered heavy casualties in the Barbarossa campaign (Russia suffered the most casualties of all the participants of WW2). Russia did a huge part in defeating the Germans, but this was not because they were good fighters (they were under-equipped through-out most of the war), but because of the sheer number of them ("Quantity has a quality of it's own"-Lenin). Had it not been for the US they would have been even more poorly equipped, and had to hold up against Germany and Japan (which also had alot of manpower), I think they would have had less of a chance than if the US had to take them both on. I think the Allied victory owes more to the U.S., but only a little more than what it owed to Russia. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted April 27, 2005 Share Posted April 27, 2005 'America' never would have won the war for it's independece from Great Brittan without all the help it got from France. To be honest, France did EVERYTHING to win that war. There was no 'American Navy' at the time and the Brits had one of the biggest Navies in the world. Even the treaty ending the war was signed in Paris, and the Statue of Liberty was a gift from France to the new nation. If you really look back at it, everyone owes something big to someone else. And just as an aside, Canada is the only country in history to get independence by asking politely. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
angelofdeath Posted April 27, 2005 Share Posted April 27, 2005 Originally posted by <KEY3>@Apr 27 2005, 12:10 PM 'America' never would have won the war for it's independece from Great Brittan without all the help it got from France. To be honest, France did EVERYTHING to win that war. There was no 'American Navy' at the time and the Brits had one of the biggest Navies in the world. Even the treaty ending the war was signed in Paris, and the Statue of Liberty was a gift from France to the new nation. If you really look back at it, everyone owes something big to someone else. And just as an aside, Canada is the only country in history to get independence by asking politely. Quoted post in my opinion the french did help alot with the revolution. we repaid the favor during the first and second world wars. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
villain Posted April 27, 2005 Share Posted April 27, 2005 Well you may be right armenhammer, though I think a majority of historians believe that the russians contributed the most. Yes, mostly manpower. That's funny about canada key... And strange that america is so close to Great Britain, and drifting away from France. Times really change. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted April 27, 2005 Share Posted April 27, 2005 There wouldn't have been a revolution without France's involvement. I don't think that 're-pay' really works in the world war senario just because it would have been bad for the US to let any other nation get too powerful. Considering that the US stayed out of WWII untill they were attacked also makes me question how eager they were to sebtle old debts. It doesn't really count as 'repayment' when it's the right thing to do. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
villain Posted April 28, 2005 Share Posted April 28, 2005 Originally posted by <KEY3>@Apr 27 2005, 03:40 PM It doesn't really count as 'repayment' when it's the right thing to do. Quoted post Word. Who's keeping dibs on righteousness? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted April 29, 2005 Share Posted April 29, 2005 Madagascar? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sleepyceas2- Posted May 1, 2005 Share Posted May 1, 2005 i really dont think its likely that bread lines would be the ish again Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
smooth talker Posted May 4, 2005 Share Posted May 4, 2005 america fell over four hundred years ago...we are just reveling in the waste of a couple few slave owners who own it all and will kill you for not doing what they say...obviously this sounds like a statement from a native american...well fuck it i was born here so i guess i am...and it doesnt take a genius to see that these slaveran megagiant multinational coporate machines are doing everything they can to destroy the planet as fast as possible with no regard to what flag you or your neighbor waves...so how long will the usa last? As long as it takes for us all to realize our lives are being fed to us through a coporate straw.........................BOTTOMS UPSKI...... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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