Guest Dusty Lipschitz Posted March 26, 2002 Share Posted March 26, 2002 Originally posted by beardo native american indians have land, their own government (basically) and casino gaming, i havent heard of them asking for more. dont look now but your republican roots are showing... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest beard Posted March 26, 2002 Share Posted March 26, 2002 no shame. you wont catch me typing up a diatribe about my feelings on any political subjects. i can only gather that you think i believe the idians have been reembersed as much as necessary, which would be a far from correct assumption. i simply stated everything i knew on the subject. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest --zeSto-- Posted March 26, 2002 Share Posted March 26, 2002 I've got to make one statement about the native issue, What was taken from the native american (especially south americans), goes so far beyond land and valuable property. Sure there is a functioning "reservation" system and a certain degree of self-rule, but that does NOTHING to ease the pain of the past. Many native americans are prone to alcohol and substance abuse, which is a form of slavery in itself. And what about having to convert to Catholocisim or die as a savage? Do we really think that a few casinos and racetracks will repair that damage? and just as a side note, When the spanish arrived in Mexico and South America, under the blood thirsty rule of Cortez and the Pizarros, the last remaining ancient civilization was snuffed out. As much as we may want to, it's impossible to recompensate something so severe. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Pilau Hands Posted March 26, 2002 Share Posted March 26, 2002 the moment ends though i feel winds blowing differently than ever before... awww look. it's little beard. that's adorable. that's got a saturday morning cartoon written all over it the merchandise alone... i should register "tiny stinky baby hands" but i digress, yo... "the problem with slave reparations is that there is never going to be a consensus, never going to be some group that isnt pissed the fuck off and feels cheated or betrayed. people are going to look for the answer that makes everyone happy, and that answer never exists. everyone has their own idea about whats fair and right." - Whitey Lipschitz See Dusty, the problem is I generally think along the same lines as you do, but I take one more step down the road, to "Meh-ville." (You will miss this reference...having never watched the Simpsons...psh) Most people think I'm apathetic, and maybe that's true, but I'm only this way after thinking about it for at least two minutes. In my opinion, there are too many issues to which Dusty's quote applies. This leaves me on the fence most of the time. I see both sides...neither look wholly attractive. Therefore I will bring clarity to the situation and simply say this. I love quesadillas. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pilau Hands Posted March 26, 2002 Share Posted March 26, 2002 ...and the show has reached a new low. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest beard Posted March 26, 2002 Share Posted March 26, 2002 hahahass Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest HESHIANDET Posted March 26, 2002 Share Posted March 26, 2002 heres a funny little tid bit of info. don't ask me where i got it from, or when i read it, but i know i read this and it was a credible source. - less than 1% of all blacks in america were/are related to slaves. - even lesser a percentage of that were white slave owners. intersting #'s to ponder when considering weather or not to allocate millions or billions of bling bling. its a crock of shit brought up to get people to watch the news and create advertising revenue. just like enron. blah, i hate life. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Are2 Posted March 26, 2002 Share Posted March 26, 2002 i think it is important to try and see all, or at least a few, of the sides to an issue..reparations may be in order, but i don't think monetary awards are the answer... an acknowledgement of the wrongs perpetrated, and perpetuated by, our government, to many classes and races of citizens may be in order.. japanese-americans were put through hell on the west coast during wwII native americans, african americans, etcetc.. i read recently that some of malcolm x's plans outlining his next actions (just before his death) have been located...these plans include a condemnation of the u.s.'s involvement in slavery.. at some point, the government should aleast acknowledge the fact that some races have been drug through mud in our countries history.. ..and then, fix the history books! , that's reparations.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest BROWNer Posted March 26, 2002 Share Posted March 26, 2002 the idea thats supposed to be at work here is REPARATIONS... and you can't make reparations for whats happened... does that mean we should do nothing? ? this whole thing is smelly. what do i know.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mental invalid Posted March 26, 2002 Author Share Posted March 26, 2002 "intersting #'s to ponder when considering weather or not to allocate millions or billions of bling bling. its a crock of shit brought up to get people to watch the news and create advertising revenue. just like enron. blah, i hate life." dood you need to breathe....didnt you just come back from a glorious sprink break on the slopes? i mean dont get me wrong it always sucked getting back to class, but geesh....go get a guiness.....;) your numbers, if they are right, are mindblowing...can you source that? pilau the fence you mention is hurting my ass and one day ill either fall off due to insanity or because i figured out what side to jump on....whichever comes first...the logic of the arguemnt you speak of does come witha ceratin amount of inaction, with the ability to see both views....ugh i love quesadillas too... thanks for the clarification beardo....for a sec i thought david duke got a hold of your screen name....playing.... i think so far the best idea has been a full blown apology, with money going to major organizations to combat the gaps that have evolved outta the situation facing african americans, ie technology and economic development.... but whose gonna pay for it? and better yet, maybe the best thing we could do as a symbol of our apology is to stomp out slave labor on a global level....maybe then people would buy an apology...but where will my polo shirt be made? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dusty Lipschitz Posted March 26, 2002 Share Posted March 26, 2002 Re: the moment ends though i feel winds blowing differently than ever before... Originally posted by Pilau Hands I love quesadillas. you are the mang! and beards... Originally posted by beardo "don't call me dubya" bush i simply stated everything i knew on the subject. jeez, i dont even know what to type... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest beard Posted March 26, 2002 Share Posted March 26, 2002 ha, its obvious that youre better informed and a better person* than i, dusty, i really dont care dude. *edited to complete a thought Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mental invalid Posted March 26, 2002 Author Share Posted March 26, 2002 "beard"? what the hell is going on here....weird things are abound...... i shudder..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pilau Hands Posted March 26, 2002 Share Posted March 26, 2002 i think what we all need to do is turn up the volume and listen to "Do the Evolution" a few times. I do this every morning, and I'm as fit as a thistle...or a whistle...uhh... eventually this does make you want to jump around and break things, but whose apartment can't stand to have a little cleaning sitting on the just keeps my buns in shape. there are times when i really want to have one stance or another on the issues, but i just can't reconcile calling someone "correct" that's a great power to grant a person or group, and i'm not that nice. here's perhaps the saddest part of all... this is the day santa claus died kids... maybe my answer is that there is none. things have been fucked up for so long, and the entire structure of the world society is so deeply rooted, that it's likely no big change will ever take place. marching and petitions do occasionally get things done...but to what extent. fifty years later, there are times when we still should ask, is "civil rights" really just a buzz word? will reparations happen? probably not. should they? in my opinion...probably not, but i don't care to get into it cause i'm still eating quesadillas (but this time i threw some leftover steak in the mizzix). "Tell you what...how 'bout you just give me some money. Fuck all them. Them mothafuckas is whiney. Give my ass a check and I'll love you forever!" war...i'm crazy... when i'm crazy at war... war...i'm crazy... when i'm crazy at war... war...i'm crazy... when i'm crazy at war... war...i'm crazy... when i'm crazy at war... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Dusty Lipschitz Posted March 26, 2002 Share Posted March 26, 2002 beard, you wan bef? lol, obviously we are both losing something somewhere, including our point, in the post. i wasnt trying to say that one was better then the other, or that.... argh. whatevs. im sure the prob was just that i mis-read or understood your first reply and it snowballed. point? indians dont consider it even arent you from...? ;) (jeezus, i at least hope that joke makes it transcends and makes it thru the T1 connection...) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mental invalid Posted March 26, 2002 Author Share Posted March 26, 2002 ...totally.....you gotta see the video for that.... damit dusty snuck in, pilau you get the point....touring band 2000 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest beard Posted March 26, 2002 Share Posted March 26, 2002 Originally posted by Dusty Lipschitz point? indians dont consider it even exactly, and i agree with the indians. all i was saying were the few points of re embersment that i was familiar with, and dont know if there are any plans for more. if it were up to me, id be asking the indians where its ok for us to live. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pilau Hands Posted March 26, 2002 Share Posted March 26, 2002 i snuck in too roe. haha. up high, down low, too slow! another issue where my thoughts relate to something recent is the hawaiian sovereignty movement. http://www.hawaii-nation.org/nation/index.html anyone who's been to Hawaii...and taken a look around. can you really imagine any kind of real sovereignty taking place? 99% of the island of oahu is a corporate paradise. and then you have the hawaiian homesteads that you DO NOT enter without knowing someone intimately. it's a sad state of affairs. should people stop protesting? no not at all...but...but what? chicken butt. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Dusty Lipschitz Posted March 26, 2002 Share Posted March 26, 2002 beard- cool like ma bell... (beasties reference, hope you pick up on it...) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest HESHIANDET Posted March 26, 2002 Share Posted March 26, 2002 i think are2 is on point. there is something up w/ dusty and beardo. interoffice special olympics i say. and dusty, wtf happened to a home depot run? silly goose Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cracked Ass Posted March 26, 2002 Share Posted March 26, 2002 By the time I read all of the responses I got tired of the idea of adding my own, but I guess I'll try anyway. First off, there are no adequate reparations available for the damage done to blacks, native Americans, or any other group. American CEOs could maybe give away all their corporations to members of races who got shafted in the past, and just invert the power structure for a couple hundred years...that would approach being "fair". We all know it's not going to happen. There is no justice on this earth. I don't say that bitterly, just realistically. In the absence of justice, there is only the pursuit of whatever you can get. So I give props to blacks trying to shake down corporations for anything they can find useful or meaningful, be that money or a simple acknowledgment of past wrongdoing. I think the most realistic solution is to scrap the past and work on the present. Blacks face plenty of disadvantage today which can be addressed via policy changes in education, housing and poverty issues, abandoning the foolish drug war, and other root cause matters. Meanwhile whites must heed what mental invalid pointed out early in the thread: it's easy to forget when there's nothing to forgive. I think a lot of anxious white people are looking for a quick fix, but the slate can't be wiped clean with a few penitent words and a cash handout. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shameless self promotion Posted March 26, 2002 Share Posted March 26, 2002 "I think a lot of anxious white people are looking for a quick fix, but the slate can't be wiped clean with a few penitent words and a cash handout." On point...! Ps. Im a honkey Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Dusty Lipschitz Posted March 26, 2002 Share Posted March 26, 2002 Originally posted by Cracked Ass By the time I read all of the responses I got tired of the idea of adding my own, but I guess I'll try anyway. First off, there are no adequate reparations available for the damage done to blacks, native Americans, or any other group. American CEOs could maybe give away all their corporations to members of races who got shafted in the past, and just invert the power structure for a couple hundred years...that would approach being "fair". We all know it's not going to happen. There is no justice on this earth. I don't say that bitterly, just realistically. In the absence of justice, there is only the pursuit of whatever you can get. So I give props to blacks trying to shake down corporations for anything they can find useful or meaningful, be that money or a simple acknowledgment of past wrongdoing. I think the most realistic solution is to scrap the past and work on the present. Blacks face plenty of disadvantage today which can be addressed via policy changes in education, housing and poverty issues, abandoning the foolish drug war, and other root cause matters. Meanwhile whites must heed what mental invalid pointed out early in the thread: it's easy to forget when there's nothing to forgive. I think a lot of anxious white people are looking for a quick fix, but the slate can't be wiped clean with a few penitent words and a cash handout. i agree with the cracked one the one point that i "disagree" with is the "...is to scrap the past and work on the present.", but knowing cracked, i dont think it was meant in a "forget the past" kind of light. more in an acknowledge, accept, remember, move on kinda of way. just wanted to clarify. and i think the ideal/realistic solution is the are2/cracked combo. accurate portrayal of history combined with the above mentioned. it would be much easier to "fix" if the bottom line damage done to blacks was just monetary, but the reality is that the financial impact of slavery on blacks is so low on the totem pole... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Are2 Posted March 26, 2002 Share Posted March 26, 2002 word there is no easy fix, maybe no 'fix' at all... but i do think that if at least our history books, elementary, and high schools could get the story straight, and accurate, at least the majority of american citizens may be a little more tolerant, a little more educated, a little less ignorant, and feel a little more redeemed.. and of course cracked is right when he says there is no justice in this world...true, but at least those fuckers could give credit where it's due and own up to the mistakes of our forefathers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mental invalid Posted March 26, 2002 Author Share Posted March 26, 2002 are2 when you speak of iconsistencies in history books, what exactly do you mean? thanks for the discussion 12ozers.....goodnite Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Are2 Posted March 27, 2002 Share Posted March 27, 2002 of the history books i used and remember (high school was a very long time ago), there was very little mention of some of the seedier, undesirable parts of u.s. history.. while we hear plenty about some of the more famous massacres of the settler days, and plenty about the horrors of slavery, i think a lot of this information is glossed over..i think very few of the long term social implications of these problems, and the manner in which they have been perpetuated, have been discussed.. and while whites have many celebrated leaders in our history, i think that the history books have largely stuck to just a few black leaders (who are 'safe'), like frederick douglass and harriet tubman, or MLK jr....there were plenty of other folks out there changing history that we do not hear about.. and of course, there is current history, which i think is barely even discussed in history classes..the ins and outs of the civil rights struggle, including all the rioting that went along with it, watergate, vietnam, korea, testing nuclear weapons on american soldiers in the 50's...... these are events that are rarely taught in history class..while they definitely do not all apply to the topic at hand, my point is that out history books tend to highlight the sunny side of the situation... (like when we scammed 2 other countries out of territories..mexico got conned out of california.....this is not at all how the scenario appears in a textbook) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ASER1NE Posted March 27, 2002 Share Posted March 27, 2002 Originally posted by A Fire Inside although they may have had to suffer do to their color in their life, it is not because they were slaves... that is completely wrong , it is entirely because they were slaves , the whole slave trade put whites on a much higher pedastal in comparison to blacks , so much so that this racial divide still hasnt been overcome , all racial bias in one form or another can be rooted back to the days of slavery , and it is extremely naive to think that no one alive has suffered thru slavery , slavery didnt really end until the mid 1950's , and there are hundreds of ppl alive who suffered it themselves or had a family member suffer through it . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Ted Wakowski Posted March 27, 2002 Share Posted March 27, 2002 Blacks deserve something. If the same American Government that decided to count southern black slaves as three-fifths of a man in the name of taxes and representation is ever going to come to peace with itself and hold a real sense of integrity then something should definitely be done, and I don't really think it's for whites to decide. If reparations --should their ever be any real attempt at them-- are to be made then they should be settled by the descendants of the victims themselves. Fuck what our government thinks, find all the black people huddled into every ghetto across North America and take a fucking poll. I think the real joke will be on our racist-bastard predecessors when the world's population is all the same color anyway. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest pulk Posted March 27, 2002 Share Posted March 27, 2002 Originally posted by A Fire Inside Call me dumb, closed-minded, racist, whatever, but I honestly don't see how paying to repair what happened will solve anything. It happened, and it didn't happen to anyone currently alive, so they shouldn't see any of it. (Does that make sense?) I'm just trying to say that the people who will recieve the reparation were not living back then to suffer through it, and although they may have had to suffer do to their color in their life, it is not because they were slaves... I've come to the conclusion it is still too early to think and put words together properly, so hopefully they came off the way I wanted it too... true. i don't see how money will make everything nice and happy again in this case. in fact, i'd feel very guilty if i had great-great-grandparents or whoever who were slaves and essentially got paid for it. think of it as cashing in on the hardships of your ancestors. not very ethical. i haven't heard much about this being in europe but thats my opinion from the impressions i've got. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Poop Man Bob Posted March 27, 2002 Share Posted March 27, 2002 Originally posted by Dusty Lipschitz ok, so me personally? toughie. i think the floodgates/pandoras box gets opened when you start making reperations. you better have one of those red-round-deli counter-take a number and wait for it to flash on the digital sign thingies in place. where does it start? where does it end? the easy example is the WTC victims. why them? what about WTC '93? or what about the US embassy bombing in africa? anyways... what would my answer be? ill have to get back after my second cup of the coffee bean elixer... I'm coming back to this thread after a 10 hour hiatus, so I have yet to read anything beyond this post. With that said, this is a very good point that is often brought up in other cases as well (system-wide discrimination in the application of the death penalty) ... it's hard to pick and choose who is the most "worthy" of a few more dollars in their pockets. And, yes, I understand that it's the representative gesture that is most important - not the actual amount of cash. But, like you said, where will it start, and where will it end? Do we issue an apology to everyone the US has ever pissed off? If so, we'll run out of trees to print the apologies on. I'm not claiming to have any answers ... just bringing up more questions that arise in my heeeeed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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