For those about to Rock... I salute You

[WORDISM45]

What a bunch of bullshit, yeah the ghandi fans are really going to come out of the woodwork to behead you for drawing a gay picture. All of the offensive drawings/”art” of every other religious figure and you never ever see anything close to the reaction of muhammad cartoons.

 

thats not true matey what about the big fiasco and death threats surrounding the 'picture of Jesus suspended in urine' ?

 

look i don;t want to get sidetracked into making it look like i'm defending a bunch of fuckwit muslims who want to kill someone for drawing a picture of some dude who lived a thousand years ago.

 

the two things i have to say in thsi thread are

1) the guy is a petty little bitch who has nothing of value to contribute to anyone so he just want to stir the pot.

2) I disagree that it is a RELIGIOUS matter but rather a matter of individuals or groups putting anyone or anything on a pedestal. I do agree that from what i've seen muslims have a way bigger tendency to be emos about this but it's not like they're exclusively the only people that do it.

 

is there nothing that you value high enough that you would be upset if somebody else publicly degraded it stereotype?

[Dawood]

WOW! "putting anyone or anything on a pedestal? Have you read about the life of Muhammad?

Agree or disagree, theres over a billion muslims in this world. I hardly call that just putting anyone or anything on a pedestal. Just because you don't believe doesn't mean the rest of the world doesn't beleive. Americans live in their own alter reality seperate from the rest of the world.

[WORDISM45]

i'm not an american, no i haven;t read about the life of Mohammed, i'm not necessarily saying that some people don;t deserve this treatment i'm just pointing out that it happens and is the cause of a lot of needless animosity

[russell jones]

OK, I guess you know how to prevent crime better than the one who created the heavens and the earth.

 

I think you missed my point. Just because something works doesn't mean it's right. Appealing to an authority I neither believe in or care anything about is not going to help your argument either.

 

Perhaps the statement "violence breeds more violence," is an apt description of the situation here. If the woman who is threatening the artist comes from a culture where brutally violent punishments are acceptable for petty crimes and weaknesses of character, then it makes sense that she would turn to violence to solve her "image" problem, even if the punishment doesn't match the crime.

[MAR]

forget freedom of speech for a minute. what about all the inflammatory cartoons that are drawn by the Muslim people? You cant scream about respect if you have none yourself.

[Dawood]

first of all. I speak for myself, not all muslims around the world. I never drew a cartoon of ANY prophet of any religion. I'm certain that you won't find a muslim on earth that would draw a disrespectful cartoon of any Jewish, Christian or any other religious figure (like prophets) because they are in the quran and we're taught to respect them as we beleive they (Moses and Jesus) are prophets of God as well.

 

And do not insult those whom they (disbelievers) worship besides Allâh, lest they insult Allâh wrongfully without knowledge. Thus We have made fairseeming to each people its own doings; then to their Lord is their return and He shall then inform them of all that they used to do. (Al-An'am 6:108)

 

Also,

You can't use misdoings of muslims against my argument. I don't use them as a measuring stick for what I believe is right. And as for freedom of speech. I swear you people worship your idea of freedom over and above what brings a maximum benefit to people.

 

Here , you yourself (russell) admitted that cutting the hand off the thief works and is a good deterrent to crime (and correct me if I'm wrong for assuming that from what you said)

But, you'd rather make up your own laws according to your whims and desires, while disregarding the laws that were revealed by the one who created even your ability to reason.

 

subhanAllah.

[Dawood]

Look, bottom line.

 

it's really rediculous for us to have this discussion anyway. If the American army wasn't stationed in almost every muslim country around the world killing poeple, blowing up mosques and spreading it's filthy ideology, muslims wouldn't be wigging out, giving you people something to draw pictures and point at.

[Stereotype V.0002]

thats not true matey what about the big fiasco and death threats surrounding the 'picture of Jesus suspended in urine' ?

 

look i don;t want to get sidetracked into making it look like i'm defending a bunch of fuckwit muslims who want to kill someone for drawing a picture of some dude who lived a thousand years ago.

 

the two things i have to say in thsi thread are

1) the guy is a petty little bitch who has nothing of value to contribute to anyone so he just want to stir the pot.

2) I disagree that it is a RELIGIOUS matter but rather a matter of individuals or groups putting anyone or anything on a pedestal. I do agree that from what i've seen muslims have a way bigger tendency to be emos about this but it's not like they're exclusively the only people that do it.

 

is there nothing that you value high enough that you would be upset if somebody else publicly degraded it stereotype?

 

I mentioned the Ghandi example because he is the non violence guy, so I don’t see his followers running out to kill some people. I know muslims arent the only people to do this, but their reaction is much much more retarded than when any other group is offended. The jesus suspended in urine caused a fuss but there weren’t massive world wide riots where people got killed, and the “artist” didn’t wind up dead in the middle of the street with a knife pinning a note to his chest. There are plenty of things that piss me off, but some attention whore gunning for the overblown reaction he got isnt something that concerns me. People should be able to say whatever they want and if you don’t like what they are saying, ignore it or tell them to go fuck themselves or stand in the middle of the road wearing a pink thong with a sign warning people of the oncoming jew-facilitated apocalypse.

[Stereotype V.0002]

I'm certain that you won't find a muslim on earth that would draw a disrespectful cartoon of any Jewish, Christian or any other religious figure

 

Another good one bubba!

from al quds

But Dawood, back on topic, you’ve stolen things and have wrote on things that don’t belong to you in the past. Should you have had your hands cut off back then or do you get special treatment?

 

Another great cartoon....

 

"<< "Hillary" and "Obama" – A Woman and a Negro are Participating in the Campaign for the American Presidency >>

The Religious Man: "This is another sign of the collapse of the Western civilization"

Source: Al-Ahram, Egypt"

[Dawood]

I knew you would make a futile attempt to find cartoons drawn by muslims to contadict me.

First off, there's no confirmation on who drew these cartoons.

Second, neither of them are disrespecting any religious figure. One of them is depicting Saddam on the cross talking to another guy on the other side. They're talking about where they're from saying, something like "hey, I'm from Iraq" and the other is saying "I'm from palestine". I hardly call that similar to depicting Islam's holiest figure as a dog.

 

The second one is a cartoon depicting Hilary and Obama, go google "muslims draw nasty cartoons of Moses" or something, to try and prove your weak point.

 

And as for me, stealing or writing on things etc.

I live in America...Had I been stealing in a place where that is the law and I was caught and convicted by a court of law and sentenced to amputation for it. Whhat could I do? What could you do? Nothing. This isn't about me. It's really about people having respect for one anothers ways of life.

 

THe problem with the whole "freedom of speech" argument is if you had a Jew, christian or Muslim neighbor would you go knock on his door showing him the nice pictures you drew of his respected prophet? You don't have to beleive what he does, but damn, at least have some decency and respect for peoples traditions.

(go ahead stereotype, go find a picture and narrative of a muslim disrespecting someones traditions or religion) And I'll tell you again, I don't use muslims as a measuring stick for what's right or wrong and neither does my religion.

[Stereotype V.0002]

Well I did know that cartoon was of Obama and Clinton, the names “Obama” and “Clinton” in the cartoon sort of gave that away, but thanks.

 

Second, neither of them are disrespecting any religious figure. One of them is depicting Saddam on the cross talking to another guy on the other side. They're talking about where they're from saying, something like "hey, I'm from Iraq" and the other is saying "I'm from palestine". I hardly call that similar to depicting Islam's holiest figure as a dog.

Someone being crucified obviously had no comical allusion to jesus, how silly of me. But I thought ANY depiction of Muhammad or a religious figure was supposed to be offensive? And I guess you are saying all other cartoons aren’t offensive if they don’t have a religious figure in them? What about the holocaust cartoon competition in Tehran? You’re point of view seems to be all of the wildly offensive shit out there against every other group is fine, but if you draw anything directed towards muslims then you should have your head cut off.

 

And as for me, stealing or writing on things etc.

I live in America...Had I been stealing in a place where that is the law and I was caught and convicted by a court of law and sentenced to amputation for it. Whhat could I do? What could you do? Nothing. This isn't about me. It's really about people having respect for one anothers ways of life..

Of course, you are special, the rules don't apply for ole dawood! You certainly are the master of respect for other's way of life.

 

if you had a Jew, christian or Muslim neighbor would you go knock on his door showing him the nice pictures you drew of his respected prophet?

I, and most rational people, wouldn't randomly try go to my neighbors house and fuck with him. And no, most people also would not think the only rational response to a gay little drawing is to murder whoever drew it.

 

THe problem with the whole "freedom of speech" argument is...

That about sums it up. You're a pretty simple guy, I can see how you buy into the cult lifestyle.

[Stereotype V.0002]

I'm certain that you won't find a muslim on earth that would draw a disrespectful cartoon of any Jewish, Christian or any other religious figure

First off, there's no confirmation on who drew these cartoons.

 

So no muslim has ever drawn a cartoon depicting another religion’s holy figures, and if I give you an example its probably been faked since there is no way to confirm it. Basically you need to see, in person, a muslim drawing the cartoon, and even then it could be some sort of cgi special effects. resistance is futile!!!!

[MAR]

you can forget people caring about your prophets as long as you dont care about other people.

http://somebodyhelpme.info/cartoons/anti-Semitic/anti-Semitic.html

 

 

P.s.

[Dawood]

So no muslim has ever drawn a cartoon depicting another religion’s holy figures, and if I give you an example its probably been faked since there is no way to confirm it. Basically you need to see, in person, a muslim drawing the cartoon, and even then it could be some sort of cgi special effects. resistance is futile!!!!

 

I haven't seen any, and I don't see muslims jumping to say, hey look at this disrespectful picture of Moses I drew, so no. All the cartoons I've seen from the arab world have been political in nature.

 

Also, If there were instances where they did, they would clearly be going against Islam and hence rejected.

[Dawood]

Well I did know that cartoon was of Obama and Clinton, the names “Obama” and “Clinton” in the cartoon sort of gave that away, but thanks.

 

 

Someone being crucified obviously had no comical allusion to jesus, how silly of me. But I thought ANY depiction of Muhammad or a religious figure was supposed to be offensive? And I guess you are saying all other cartoons aren’t offensive if they don’t have a religious figure in them? What about the holocaust cartoon competition in Tehran? You’re point of view seems to be all of the wildly offensive shit out there against every other group is fine, but if you draw anything directed towards muslims then you should have your head cut off.

 

 

Of course, you are special, the rules don't apply for ole dawood! You certainly are the master of respect for other's way of life.

 

 

I, and most rational people, wouldn't randomly try go to my neighbors house and fuck with him. And no, most people also would not think the only rational response to a gay little drawing is to murder whoever drew it.

 

 

That about sums it up. You're a pretty simple guy, I can see how you buy into the cult lifestyle.

 

Ha, I'm simple.! You can't even understand my clear response to you when i said that If I had stolen something in a land where that is the law and I was conviced by a court, then I would lose my hand. How does that make me exempt from the rules?

When I was in Saudi Arabia, they used to leave the gold shops open while they left to pray. I could've stole hundreds of thousands of dollars worth of gold. Do you think that if I were caught I'd be exempt? I think not.

 

I'm tired of going tit for tat with you stereotype, you love to derail the main point and try to divert from the main issue so I've decided to respond with a well thought out response for some of the more respectful, thoughtful and intellegent people on this board.

 

As for people who want to feel free to disrespect other peoples religious backgrounds and traditions then let them do it in their own countries under the protection of people like Bush who could care less about you. If you come to the lands of the muslims thinking you are going to spew that same hate and disrespect, then you're going to be fought and killed just like in Iraq, Just like in Afghanistan and just like anywhere where the muslims are. In reality, it's YOUR governments that are the aggressors and antogonizers. People who claim to be civilized, your different constitutions and laws spoil and ruin moral values. They allow you to commit whatever is made illicit by God like fornication, homosexuality, and usury, a gnawing worm on the Economy. All these things are the ruin of civilizations and all prophets have prohibited them.

Actually, your Governments are the ones who have designed the bombs, destruction weapons, and destruction machinery and tools like jetfighters, tanks, and intercontinental missiles. Your governments designed them using your evil minds and brains which do not think except to attack people, injustice, and enslavement of mankind by wounding people, killing them, or controlling their wealth.

 

All with the pretext of civilization, respect of human rights, freedom, and justice! (yeah right)

 

Anyone endowed with intelligence and reason knows this truth and your devious bloodthirsty history filled with barbarism.

 

Whoever ignores this should read the history of colonization of the world or read at least the history of the two world wars during which you were the principal actors and read as well the statistics related to them and their bad consequences. The number of dead people during only the World War I reached more than 10 (ten) millions of young men whereas the number of those suffered wounds and mutilation for life over passed 20 (twenty) millions.

The World War II had left behind it 17 (seventeen) millions of soldiers and 18 (eighteen) millions of civilians who passed away. All this happened during five years and a half. Not to mention the billions of dollars wasted and the destruction of several cities and the flood and the blaze that took place in farming lands causing the loss of livestock and the destruction of industrial factories and ore mines.

 

With that, either you can decide to respect peoples traditions as you would like them to

respect yours or you can keep hiding behind your ability to speak destructive words freely, defending hate and division. Some day this rug of complacent comfortability and protection that America has set up for you might be yanked from underneath you. On that day you'll wish your tounges weren't so loose. trust me. The only way is to respect people. When we're kids in grade school we're taught to have respect for people and their traditions. Why does it stop when we're adults in the name of "free speech"?

 

And for the record it goes both ways. (MAR) I find those Arab-Jew cartoons rediculous. They only stir more hate and were most likely drawn by secularists because drawing Images of human beings is forbidden in Islam.

 

Allâh does not forbid you to deal justly and kindly with those who fought not against you on account of religion and did not drive you out of your homes. Verily, Allâh loves those who deal with equity. (Al-Mumtahinah 60:8)

[Stereotype V.0002]

“Ha, I'm simple.! You can't even understand my clear response to you when i said that If I had stolen something in a land where that is the law and I was conviced by a court, then I would lose my hand. How does that make me exempt from the rules?”

I asked what should have happened, not what actually happened. You advocate severing someone’s limb for petty theft, and attack all western laws and values as unjust evil wickedness blah blah blah....but when it comes down to yourself personally, you prefer the American laws. Just like you prefer to live in the great satan than the magical wonderland of the middle east, where the streets are paved with gold and everyone hugs eachother every day!

 

”is made illicit by God like fornication”

Allah made sex illegal? He should have really rethought the penis/vagina set up.

 

”, it's YOUR governments that are the aggressors and antogonizers. People who claim to be civilized, your different constitutions and laws spoil and ruin moral values.”

Actually its YOUR country too. This land is my land, this land is your land! You were born here, you live here. Comments like the one above are why you’re a hypocrite. And that’s why all of the fundamentalist douches who immigrated to Europe and the US, who gave you talking points you’ve memorized so well, are also hypocrites.

 

”Actually, your Governments are the ones who have designed the bombs, destruction weapons, and destruction machinery and tools like jetfighters, tanks, and intercontinental missiles. Your governments designed them using your evil minds and brains which do not think except to attack people, injustice, and enslavement of mankind by wounding people, killing them, or controlling their wealth.”

I know you are basically quoting a sermon verbatim you’ve listened to, if not copy pasting it, which makes this all the more funny. You completely changed how you normally type. Evil minds...AND brains! Oh snap nigga! Anyway a whole lot more muslims are being killed by other muslims with explosives strapped to their bodies than American made bombs. How do you explain the bloodshed between muslims, in muslim countries, where there are no Americans? Like the recent suicide bombing in Pakistan, or a hundred other examples fitting the same criteria? Oh, I know, you explain it by denying it happened or somehow blaming the US/west since muslims can’t have any personal responsibility for anything ever.

 

”Just like in Afghanistan and just like anywhere where the muslims are”

This might injure your world view a little bit so I apologize in advance, but in Afghanistan over 60% of the population favors the baby killing evil western presence, and only 16% oppose it.

 

”Anyone endowed with intelligence and reason knows this truth and your devious bloodthirsty history filled with barbarism.”

As opposed to the peaceful history of islam. So cutting someones head off in chop chop square with a cheering crowd like its a ballgame, for in some cases literally being accused of “witchcraft” (which is a death penalty resulting crime in saudi arabia) in the house of Saud isn’t barbaric? Seriously, for your second spring break trip, you should definitely check out deerah square, you seem like the type who would really enjoy it. Those harry potter motherfuckers need to be stopped!

 

”were most likely drawn by secularists because drawing Images of human beings is forbidden in Islam.”

Either that or it was faked by teh zionist jewzor oppressors!!

[Stereotype V.0002]

If I didn’t know better I would think that whole post was a joke. You sound like the dad from "leave it to beaver", the kids today with their fornication and rock and roll music! Just a heads up for you, I am not so terrified of death that I need to cling onto some batshit crazy ideology. I also don’t attend your mosque and I am able to think for myself... so all the doom and gloom “one day you will pay for your words infidel!1!1”/idle threats/evil decadent western society spiel isn’t going to have much of an affect on me. We have gone over a lot of the stuff you always retreat to, like the fact that Muslim countries have some of the highest rates of drug usage (heroin), STDs, and the common acceptance of pedophilia (“women are for children and boys are for pleasure”, what a charming pashtun saying). You always respond that this isn’t true, and everything proving it is true is a conspiracy against islam. I am sure you actually believe what you’re saying so I doubt you’ve had much experience in the arab world outside of your several week summer vacation there. Ok you take it easy now andy griffith.

[Cracked Ass]

Dawood, your arguments are weakened by your generalizations. I don't agree with you on a lot of things, but you usually have at least a coherent argument and position. Here your arguments lose credibility for two reasons:

1. Attributing all things evil to all Americans.

"your Governments are the ones who have designed the bombs, destruction weapons, and destruction machinery and tools like jetfighters, tanks, and intercontinental missiles. Your governments designed them using your evil minds and brains which do not think except to attack people, injustice, and enslavement of mankind by wounding people, killing them, or controlling their wealth."

As can be said of Muslims, Americans are a diverse group in terms of philosophy. I'm an atheist, I don't like war, I hate Bush, not a huge fan of capitalism, I respect people who do their thing and show me respect. You are quick though to paint all non-Muslims as degenerate, immoral, evil, selfish, bellicose, etc. Closed minds talk in black and white; bring back the grays or you lose credibility as a thinker.

2. I'm well versed in the history of the world wars. Both started in Europe, and the US got involved only when things were getting out of hand. In WWII in particular we only entered the war after being attacked at Pearl Harbor. I have no interest in defending US policy throughout its history - we have plenty of dark chapters, and Bush's baseless attack on Iraq is the US sinking to a new low - but the reviews of that history are mixed, with some noble aims and some dirty as shit. Again, shades of gray, not absolutes. Stay objective or lose credibility as a debater.

[WORDISM45]

I mentioned the Ghandi example because he is the non violence guy, so I don’t see his followers running out to kill some people. I know muslims arent the only people to do this, but their reaction is much much more retarded than when any other group is offended. The jesus suspended in urine caused a fuss but there weren’t massive world wide riots where people got killed, and the “artist” didn’t wind up dead in the middle of the street with a knife pinning a note to his chest. There are plenty of things that piss me off, but some attention whore gunning for the overblown reaction he got isnt something that concerns me. People should be able to say whatever they want and if you don’t like what they are saying, ignore it or tell them to go fuck themselves or stand in the middle of the road wearing a pink thong with a sign warning people of the oncoming jew-facilitated apocalypse.

Dude i never said he shouldn't be able to say it i just think it's a pointless piece of shit, and the guy seems like a wanktard. I;ve already opted for option A thank you very much

[WORDISM45]

Dawood are you trying ot claim that there is no Usury in Saudi Arabi or any other Muslim country?

[MAR]

And for the record it goes both ways. (MAR) I find those Arab-Jew cartoons rediculous. They only stir more hate and were most likely drawn by secularists because drawing Images of human beings is forbidden in Islam.

 

al-watan:

http://www.al-watan.com/data/20071023/index.asp?page=cartoon.htm

 

tishrin:

http://www.tishreen.info/care.asp

[Fist 666]

 

i lold...

[Theo Huxtable.]

The point was to piss people off and get them to react in irrational ways. Thereby proving the irrationality of many religious people. Not that it needed proving...

 

It's like performance art, except the performer is not the artist, but the viewer. His subject in the actual work was just a tool, to provoke and offend certainly, but also to get people to realize the power and conversely, the powerlessness of images. His work was intended to illicit death threats, which proves how much religion can cloud people's minds and make them forget what is important. Is this cartoon made by some guy in rural Sweden really have any power whatsoever? Do the people who are offended think that it has somehow reduced the power of their religion? Why not react with images in retaliation rather than violence?

 

 

Very good way of putting it.

[Dawood]

So that it's clear. Anything I said above applies to muslims as well if they follow the same evil principles that I mentioned. Muslims aren't exempt from blame (Stereotype) .

I know you like to paint me with the brush of partisanship, but like I said over and over. I don't use muslims as my measuring stick of what right and wrong is.

 

Allah says

 

"O you who believe! Be firm in establishing justice, bearing witness to the truth, for the sake of Allah, even against your own selves or your parents and kinsfolk.... " (4:135)

[Dawood]

Dawood are you trying ot claim that there is no Usury in Saudi Arabi or any other Muslim country?

I wish. The world would run much smoother without the fat cats getting rich off of peoples economic despair. As for Saudi Arabia. I don't know what goes on in their banks, but if they do practice Usury in them, they're in clear violation.

[Dawood]

Dawood, your arguments are weakened by your generalizations. I don't agree with you on a lot of things, but you usually have at least a coherent argument and position. Here your arguments lose credibility for two reasons:

1. Attributing all things evil to all Americans.

"your Governments are the ones who have designed the bombs, destruction weapons, and destruction machinery and tools like jetfighters, tanks, and intercontinental missiles. Your governments designed them using your evil minds and brains which do not think except to attack people, injustice, and enslavement of mankind by wounding people, killing them, or controlling their wealth."

As can be said of Muslims, Americans are a diverse group in terms of philosophy. I'm an atheist, I don't like war, I hate Bush, not a huge fan of capitalism, I respect people who do their thing and show me respect. You are quick though to paint all non-Muslims as degenerate, immoral, evil, selfish, bellicose, etc. Closed minds talk in black and white; bring back the grays or you lose credibility as a thinker.

2. I'm well versed in the history of the world wars. Both started in Europe, and the US got involved only when things were getting out of hand. In WWII in particular we only entered the war after being attacked at Pearl Harbor. I have no interest in defending US policy throughout its history - we have plenty of dark chapters, and Bush's baseless attack on Iraq is the US sinking to a new low - but the reviews of that history are mixed, with some noble aims and some dirty as shit. Again, shades of gray, not absolutes. Stay objective or lose credibility as a debater.

 

 

I didn't pull any punches when I said what I said, but it obviously doesn't apply to every American/westerner or non muslim. Like you said , people vary and what I said may apply to different people on different levels. Some more , some less. I should have put that in my post, but honestly I assumed people would know that.

Another point I was making is one of simple respect. Why is it that it's ok to bash Muhammad this way?, but if someone disrespected Malcolm X like that (who accepted Islam before they killed him) It would turn into an enormous race issue and Blacks around the country wouldn't stand for it. The person who made the comment would eventually apolagise and say how insensitive it was etc. etc.

The point is , we should be teaching people respect. To me, respecting people (even people you don't agree with or like)and especially dead people who happen to be among the most infuential people in the history of the world is more important than having the right to talk foul about them or their deceased leaders. If these people wanted to attack muslims, then at least they could attack someone who is alive to defend himself.

[Dawood]

Let me ask you a question, why do you come to a graffiti forum and you don't even post in the graffiti threads?

 

bump...this was for you sterotype..