russell jones Posted October 17, 2007 Share Posted October 17, 2007 I love those damn Scandinavians, they know how to party! Guy draws cartoon of Mohamed with the body of a dog. Man now has a price on his head, for drawing a picture. Awesome. http://www.cnn.com/2007/WORLD/europe/10/16/artist.controversy/index.html#cnnSTCVideo Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
boogie hands Posted October 17, 2007 Share Posted October 17, 2007 just from reading the article this guy sounds less like someone making a valid comment and more of an inflammatory idiot. mohammed as a dog? jesus as a pedophile? come the fuck on here....if youre going to attack religion maybe try and add a dash of intelligence in with it? i mean youre only trying to parody the strongest force that exists on our planet. seriously....take a break from the hash, retard. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WORDISM45 Posted October 17, 2007 Share Posted October 17, 2007 yeah i see no point in attacking something for the sake of it, offer up something valid and you might be makign a point otherwise you're just as dumb as anything you attack. how scary did that crazy woman look in her robes? the muslim darth vader Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
russell jones Posted October 18, 2007 Author Share Posted October 18, 2007 The point was to piss people off and get them to react in irrational ways. Thereby proving the irrationality of many religious people. Not that it needed proving... It's like performance art, except the performer is not the artist, but the viewer. His subject in the actual work was just a tool, to provoke and offend certainly, but also to get people to realize the power and conversely, the powerlessness of images. His work was intended to illicit death threats, which proves how much religion can cloud people's minds and make them forget what is important. Is this cartoon made by some guy in rural Sweden really have any power whatsoever? Do the people who are offended think that it has somehow reduced the power of their religion? Why not react with images in retaliation rather than violence? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
boogie hands Posted October 18, 2007 Share Posted October 18, 2007 i mean, i see what youre saying, but at the same time the dust from the danish cartoon of mohammad hasnt even settled yet. i guess points 2 and 3 for me would be that someone already did this 2 years ago and 4 years before that a group of muslims flew planes into building to punish the infidels and claim their 72 virgins in heaven. i think that was kind of the pinnacle of clouded views about the world and their gods wishes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WORDISM45 Posted October 19, 2007 Share Posted October 19, 2007 The point was to piss people off and get them to react in irrational ways. Thereby proving the irrationality of many religious people. Not that it needed proving... It's like performance art, except the performer is not the artist, but the viewer. His subject in the actual work was just a tool, to provoke and offend certainly, but also to get people to realize the power and conversely, the powerlessness of images. His work was intended to illicit death threats, which proves how much religion can cloud people's minds and make them forget what is important. Is this cartoon made by some guy in rural Sweden really have any power whatsoever? Do the people who are offended think that it has somehow reduced the power of their religion? Why not react with images in retaliation rather than violence? I think you're wrong when you say it points out the irrationality of religious people. I say this because i believe that if you were to publish an image of Ghandi sucking a bunch of dudes off or the founding fathers all having a massive orgy you'd get the same kinds of reactions from people regardless of religion. It's just inflammatory rubbish from some guy who has nothing better to do with his time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dawood Posted October 19, 2007 Share Posted October 19, 2007 The point was to piss people off and get them to react in irrational ways. Thereby proving the irrationality of many religious people. Not that it needed proving... It's like performance art, except the performer is not the artist, but the viewer. His subject in the actual work was just a tool, to provoke and offend certainly, but also to get people to realize the power and conversely, the powerlessness of images. His work was intended to illicit death threats, which proves how much religion can cloud people's minds and make them forget what is important. Is this cartoon made by some guy in rural Sweden really have any power whatsoever? Do the people who are offended think that it has somehow reduced the power of their religion? Why not react with images in retaliation rather than violence? To be completely honest with you. People like this have no manners. That's the problem with western societies. People lack manners and do things to illicit responses from people that they know they are going to get before they do it. Muslims love the prophet the way they love their parents, their grandparents, wives, husbands,their kids. If anyone spoke about my wife or parents like that I would want to at least beat them down. Call it violent, call it what you want, but people don't have the right to dis-honor the prophets Muhammad and Jesus and think they aren't going to get an emotional, if not violent response especially these days when muslims feel as if the west has their foot on the neck of Islamic civilisation. People Insulted the prophet during his life, but he dealt with them kindly, he wasn't the type to get upset over his own honor, he only got upset for the sake of Allah. But today, muslims feel too much pain from all the suffering at the hands of the modern imperialist who murder thousands of muslims weekly. These people need to learn manners. I hope he learns this one the hard way. At least he will be an "art martyr" ha ha. what a putz. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dawood Posted October 19, 2007 Share Posted October 19, 2007 I think you're wrong when you say it points out the irrationality of religious people. I say this because i believe that if you were to publish an image of Ghandi sucking a bunch of dudes off or the founding fathers all having a massive orgy you'd get the same kinds of reactions from people regardless of religion. It's just inflammatory rubbish from some guy who has nothing better to do with his time. exactly...the dude's an attention whore. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cracked Ass Posted October 19, 2007 Share Posted October 19, 2007 illicit (adj.) = illegal elicit (verb) = to bring forth Reactions validate actors. If you respond to rubbish, you dignify it. When Muslims put a price on the head of somebody with no class with nothing serious to say, they're doing the same thing as the US media when some 10-year old spraypaints a swastika on a headstone: show it on the news, call it a hate crime, start a big uproar. That's all the numbnuts kid wanted. I don't play that game. When my worthless piece of shit white trash next door neighbor questions my manhood, I don't even turn my head to look. I have nothing to prove to that fat fuck, an absolute confidence in his zeroness. It sounds like Muhammad did the same thing personally. His followers look insecure by deviating from his example. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the.crooked Posted October 19, 2007 Share Posted October 19, 2007 The problem with the notion of this as performance art, is that I don't give a fuck. I know people are stupid. If you are trying to make a point to people who will care it surely isn't gonna be anyone that doesn't already get what he is trying to put forth. And in so much as that is the case.... yawn. All homeboy did was make his life most self important. He is sombedoy in his own head just cus he knew a certain reaction would happen. Homeboy should just go suck himself off and save us all the social bullshit things like this cause. Like other people said, if he had something new to say, it would be gravy. But otherwise... fuck it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
russell jones Posted October 19, 2007 Author Share Posted October 19, 2007 To be completely honest with you. People like this have no manners. That's the problem with western societies. People lack manners and do things to illicit responses from people that they know they are going to get before they do it. Muslims love the prophet the way they love their parents, their grandparents, wives, husbands,their kids. If anyone spoke about my wife or parents like that I would want to at least beat them down. Call it violent, call it what you want, but people don't have the right to dis-honor the prophets Muhammad and Jesus and think they aren't going to get an emotional, if not violent response especially these days when muslims feel as if the west has their foot on the neck of Islamic civilisation. People Insulted the prophet during his life, but he dealt with them kindly, he wasn't the type to get upset over his own honor, he only got upset for the sake of Allah. But today, muslims feel too much pain from all the suffering at the hands of the modern imperialist who murder thousands of muslims weekly. These people need to learn manners. I hope he learns this one the hard way. At least he will be an "art martyr" ha ha. what a putz. Didn't you ever hear sticks and stones? Images do not cause physical harm. Although I tend to agree with everyone that the guy is an attention whore, and what he says is not new, I think it needs to be said, over and over again. Things like this have to be said over and over again lest they be forgotten. For instance, most Americans don't know anything about blackface, minstrel shows and other humiliating things that Black entertainers had to do to get work in early Hollywood. And because its been forgotten, there is no context for today. People don't understand why someone would be offended by certain rap videos and characters in films because they have no signpost to compare it to. What do images mean? Why is there violence in this world? Why does somebody want to kill another person? Why do wars start? I think images like this show that we need to come up with different solutions to our problems than violence. What does violence accomplish? Nothing but suffering. A picture might have offended people, but one has never been directly responsible for someone's death. Guns and bombs kill people everyday and for what? Things that are barely more harmful than this picture. Oil... Money... Honor... Are any of these things worth a life? There is nothing more precious than a human life. People who take one rarely have better reasons than the religious fanatics complaining about the picture of their religious leader. Violence is evil, period. Some people will never get that, but that doesn't mean we should stop trying. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dawood Posted October 20, 2007 Share Posted October 20, 2007 I don't agree, Russell. There is a place in this world for violence. I'm not saying that violence should be the rule, but the exception to certain situations. I'm sure you would agree if someone broke into your house you wouldn't watch peacefully while some maniac raped your wife or mother. Now, we may not always agree on what situations warrant violence, but in my opinion some violence (combined with other social preventative measures) curbs many evils in society. One example , cutting the hand of the thief off. Do you know how much crime there is in Saudi Arabia? Next to none. Why? because...not only does the govt. take care of the needs of people if they need to eat, but if you steal, you'll get your hand chopped off. Simple. How many hand cuttings do you think happen a year? Not many. Call it barbaric, but it works and it's better than paying taxes for millions of prisoners. Moral of the story, Violence, even though it should be an exception to being merciful... is not always evil. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WORDISM45 Posted October 20, 2007 Share Posted October 20, 2007 yeah dawood the problem with the hands being chopped off law is A) It's only people born poor who would generally commit the crime and have their hands chopped off, unless of course they chop off the hands of white collar thieves? B )It serves the function of punishing someone for the rest of their lives for what is a minor offense, and it also acts as branding the mfor all others to label them for the rest of their lives as a 'thief' obviously making living in that society suck pretty badly. Offering no real opportunity to fully 'repent' or what have you Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dawood Posted October 20, 2007 Share Posted October 20, 2007 The prophet Muhammad said By Allah, if Fatima, the daughter of Muhammad had committed theft, I would have cut off her hand.!" Volume 8, Book 81, Number 780 Narrated 'Aisha Actually, poor people (in an islamic society) are eligable for Zakat (the government charity fund that is basically like a welfare system) So, there is no need to steal. Also, Repenting is to Allah, not to the people and Allah accepts repentance from sincere people even without a right hand. Yes, the punishment is meant to "label" them. It is meant to disgrace them, because what you call a "minor offense", as you know by living in america turns into grand larceny or worse murder (carjackings, armed robbery shootings, bank robberies gone bad , drug deals gone bad etc.) By instituting a law like that, it "cuts off" (pun intended) the road to evil. Also, I wanted to add, that according to the laws of the shariah, the theft has to be over a certain amount of moneys worth to be considered something punishable by amputation. also, there has to be (I think) 4 witnesses (or 2, i can't remember) Also, during times of extreme hardships, famine etc. If the person stealing can prove that his family was in dire need and he did it out of desperation, then he is excused, so with all of those conditions, most likely only the occupational thieves will be the nubby ones, and they deserve it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stereotype V.0002 Posted October 20, 2007 Share Posted October 20, 2007 [Town meeting in one of the rooms in City Hall. Everyone is talking all at once] Mayor McDaniels: People! People, quiet, please! [the crowd quiets down] We must not panic! Randy: Well what are we gonna do, Mayor?! Part 2 of the Family Guy episode airs in six days! Mayor McDaniels: I believe that Professor Thomas from the University has come up with a solution. Prof. Thomas: [steps up to the podium] Thank you, Mayor. [everyone sits] Now look, everyone, Muslim terrorists and extremists are threatening us for what Family Guy is going to do... because they've wrongly grouped us together. Our only hope is to make the Muslim extremists know... that we had no part in the Muhammad episode. That even though the episode aired, we didn't watch it, we didn't hear it, and we didn't talk about it. Jimbo: So how do we do that? Prof. Thomas: We bury our heads. In sand. [flips a board over to reveal his plan for disavowing any knowledge of the episode] We take twenty to twenty-five dump trucks, fill them with sand from Monarch Lake, and then dump the sand along South Park Avenue. By using approximately eighteen dozen shovels, we can each dig a hole in the sand, stick our heads in the holes, and then have the person to our left bury them. If we can manage to get every person's head buried deep, deep in sand before the Muhammad episode airs, we could avoid looking like we're responsible for any part of this at all. Stephen: No, no, wait a minute, [Mrs. Garrison looks at him] it's ridiculous. [Gerald looks at him] What we need to do is just the opposite. Freedom of speech is at stake here, don't you all see? [makes his way to the board] If anything, we should ALL make cartoons of Muhammad, and show the terrorists and the extremists that we are all united in the belief that every person has a right to say what they want! Look, people, it's... been real easy for us to stand up for free speech lately. For the past few decades we haven't had to risk anything to defend it. But those times are going to come! And one of those times is right now. And if WE... aren't willing to RISK... what we have, then we just believe in free speech, but we don't defend it. [the other people there mull this speech over...] Randy: I like the sand idea. Mr. Mackey: Yeah, me too. Gerald: Yeah. The sand thing sounds a lot simpler. [everyone else agrees] Mayor McDaniels: We're gonna need eight dozen shovels and sixteen tons of sand! Let's move, people! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stereotype V.0002 Posted October 20, 2007 Share Posted October 20, 2007 I'm sure you would agree if someone broke into your house you wouldn't watch peacefully while some maniac raped your wife or mother. Wow, drawing a gay little cartoon, and someone breaking into your home and raping your family. What a great comparison, they are practically the same thing. Thank you for the enlightenment Seyyed Dawood! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dawood Posted October 20, 2007 Share Posted October 20, 2007 shut the fuck up , bitch made nigga! nobodys talking to you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stereotype V.0002 Posted October 20, 2007 Share Posted October 20, 2007 nigga Aren’t you white? Shouldn’t that be “brosef”, or “dude” in your native parlance? Anyways its good to see you can eloquently back up your argument. Peace be with you brother. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
russell jones Posted October 20, 2007 Author Share Posted October 20, 2007 I don't agree, Russell. There is a place in this world for violence. I'm not saying that violence should be the rule, but the exception to certain situations. I'm sure you would agree if someone broke into your house you wouldn't watch peacefully while some maniac raped your wife or mother. This has never happened to me or anyone in my building. So I think it is unlikely. The power of positive thinking is a beautiful thing. I feel if I love first and hate second, little harm will come to me. Call me retarded, but at least I feel good about what I am doing. Violence is something that one often feels like they should do. It's not rational. Once I started feeling like violence wasn't the answer, none has ever come to me. And it's not like I live in an insulated world, people I know get involved in violence, but I don't. Also, violence as a retaliation for stealing an object, is certainly wrong. It's like saying, "I want to stop teen pregnancy so I'm going to cut of the clitoris of every teenage girl to stop it." Oh wait somebody already thought of that. I'm not stupid, if someone personally attacked my family, I would do what I need to do, but personally, I don't prepare for it, because it's love first and hate second for me. Trust before distrust for me. It's working so far... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
russell jones Posted October 20, 2007 Author Share Posted October 20, 2007 [Town meeting in one of the rooms in City Hall. Everyone is talking all at once] Mayor McDaniels: People! People, quiet, please! [the crowd quiets down] We must not panic! Randy: Well what are we gonna do, Mayor?! Part 2 of the Family Guy episode airs in six days! Mayor McDaniels: I believe that Professor Thomas from the University has come up with a solution. Prof. Thomas: [steps up to the podium] Thank you, Mayor. [everyone sits] Now look, everyone, Muslim terrorists and extremists are threatening us for what Family Guy is going to do... because they've wrongly grouped us together. Our only hope is to make the Muslim extremists know... that we had no part in the Muhammad episode. That even though the episode aired, we didn't watch it, we didn't hear it, and we didn't talk about it. Jimbo: So how do we do that? Prof. Thomas: We bury our heads. In sand. [flips a board over to reveal his plan for disavowing any knowledge of the episode] We take twenty to twenty-five dump trucks, fill them with sand from Monarch Lake, and then dump the sand along South Park Avenue. By using approximately eighteen dozen shovels, we can each dig a hole in the sand, stick our heads in the holes, and then have the person to our left bury them. If we can manage to get every person's head buried deep, deep in sand before the Muhammad episode airs, we could avoid looking like we're responsible for any part of this at all. Stephen: No, no, wait a minute, [Mrs. Garrison looks at him] it's ridiculous. [Gerald looks at him] What we need to do is just the opposite. Freedom of speech is at stake here, don't you all see? [makes his way to the board] If anything, we should ALL make cartoons of Muhammad, and show the terrorists and the extremists that we are all united in the belief that every person has a right to say what they want! Look, people, it's... been real easy for us to stand up for free speech lately. For the past few decades we haven't had to risk anything to defend it. But those times are going to come! And one of those times is right now. And if WE... aren't willing to RISK... what we have, then we just believe in free speech, but we don't defend it. [the other people there mull this speech over...] Randy: I like the sand idea. Mr. Mackey: Yeah, me too. Gerald: Yeah. The sand thing sounds a lot simpler. [everyone else agrees] Mayor McDaniels: We're gonna need eight dozen shovels and sixteen tons of sand! Let's move, people! at least somebody gets it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stereotype V.0002 Posted October 20, 2007 Share Posted October 20, 2007 at least somebody gets it. Trey Parker and Matt Stone have their shit together! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stereotype V.0002 Posted October 20, 2007 Share Posted October 20, 2007 I think you're wrong when you say it points out the irrationality of religious people. I say this because i believe that if you were to publish an image of Ghandi sucking a bunch of dudes off or the founding fathers all having a massive orgy you'd get the same kinds of reactions from people regardless of religion. It's just inflammatory rubbish from some guy who has nothing better to do with his time. What a bunch of bullshit, yeah the ghandi fans are really going to come out of the woodwork to behead you for drawing a gay picture. All of the offensive drawings/”art” of every other religious figure and you never ever see anything close to the reaction of muhammad cartoons. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dawood Posted October 20, 2007 Share Posted October 20, 2007 Aren’t you white? Shouldn’t that be “brosef”, or “dude” in your native parlance? Anyways its good to see you can eloquently back up your argument. Peace be with you brother. You have no Idea what my native parlance is. My native parlance might be to smack the mess out of you. NIGGA! I've never used the word brosef and hardly "dude" unless I'm saying something like "you know stereotype? yeah, dude is gay" And no I'm not white, I'm a (muslim) Italian. Who made up this term "white"? White is a mindstate. I don't fit into your Bob Dobolina box, Nigguh. We're talking about violence and it's relevance vs. non relevance. I don't humor you or your sarcastic remarks because you are a condescending shithead and probably have been since you were a kid because you've got it mastered. Most of the people that come on this board don't agree with some of my viewpoints and I haven't met one person that comes in crossfire that agrees with my beliefs (except salafi Zahrah) I come back here because I enjoy the mix of ideas that come through and most people that come to crossfire debate respectfully without being insulting, condescending and plain rude. I've come to like some of the people here (even though we disagree) you're not one of them. I'm confident you don't care whether I like you or not. Just try hard not o be such an asshole and maybe people will respect you more ok? (excuse my language) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dawood Posted October 20, 2007 Share Posted October 20, 2007 This has never happened to me or anyone in my building. So I think it is unlikely. The power of positive thinking is a beautiful thing. I feel if I love first and hate second, little harm will come to me. Call me retarded, but at least I feel good about what I am doing. Violence is something that one often feels like they should do. It's not rational. Once I started feeling like violence wasn't the answer, none has ever come to me. And it's not like I live in an insulated world, people I know get involved in violence, but I don't. Also, violence as a retaliation for stealing an object, is certainly wrong. It's like saying, "I want to stop teen pregnancy so I'm going to cut of the clitoris of every teenage girl to stop it." Oh wait somebody already thought of that. I'm not stupid, if someone personally attacked my family, I would do what I need to do, but personally, I don't prepare for it, because it's love first and hate second for me. Trust before distrust for me. It's working so far... Cutting the hand off a thief who met all the conditions according to a court of law is nothing like cutting the clitoris off every teenage girl. The teenage girl is not convicted of any crime. Look, I don't expect for you to understand or agree, but from the standpoint of what prevents crime better, for sure, stiffer penalties do the trick instead of a slap on the wrist like in America. You can't deny that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stereotype V.0002 Posted October 21, 2007 Share Posted October 21, 2007 Dawood, let me apologize I didn’t know that Italians weren’t white. I should have realized that converting to Islam and using da dopest early 90s street slang negates all whiteness. I was going to invite you to play some squash and then check out a jimmy buffet concert, but alas my hopes have been dashed! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dawood Posted October 21, 2007 Share Posted October 21, 2007 Let me ask you a question, why do you come to a graffiti forum and you don't even post in the graffiti threads? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
russell jones Posted October 21, 2007 Author Share Posted October 21, 2007 I'm Italian. Does that mean I can get reparations? Ahhh... I'd probably just blow all the money on gold crucifixes, an IROC Camaro, some meatballs and a matching velor sweat suit. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
russell jones Posted October 21, 2007 Author Share Posted October 21, 2007 Cutting the hand off a thief who met all the conditions according to a court of law is nothing like cutting the clitoris off every teenage girl. The teenage girl is not convicted of any crime. Look, I don't expect for you to understand or agree, but from the standpoint of what prevents crime better, for sure, stiffer penalties do the trick instead of a slap on the wrist like in America. You can't deny that. The ends don't justify the means. Horribly disfiguring someone for stealing some stuff is just retarded. Stuff is not more important than a body part, I don't care what kind of stuff it is. No loving god would order such a punishment. You know how I could prevent all crime? Kill everyone! That would solve it. By the way, did you know there aren't any gay people in Iran? I did not know that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dawood Posted October 21, 2007 Share Posted October 21, 2007 OK, I guess you know how to prevent crime better than the one who created the heavens and the earth. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dawood Posted October 21, 2007 Share Posted October 21, 2007 I'm Italian. Does that mean I can get reparations? Ahhh... I'd probably just blow all the money on gold crucifixes, an IROC Camaro, some meatballs and a matching velor sweat suit. Reparations for what? bad pizza down south? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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