Guest spectr Posted September 20, 2007 Share Posted September 20, 2007 http://www.guardian.co.uk/alqaida/story/0,,2173071,00.html?gusrc=rss&feed=networkfront Osama bin Laden today called on Pakistanis to "rebel against the apostate" Pervez Musharraf in a video message posted on the internet.The footage, on an islamist militant website, featured the al-Qaida leader's voice over previously released footage of him. In what was the third message from Bin Laden this month, he described Gen Musharraf as an infidel, condemning the president's closeness to the US. He said the decision to send the military into the Red mosque in Islamabad in July had "demonstrated Musharraf's insistence on continuing his loyalty, submissiveness and aid to America against the Muslims ... and makes armed rebellion against him and removing him obligatory". The message added: "So when the capability is there, it is obligatory to rebel against the apostate ruler, as is the case now," according to a transcript of the tape released by Laura Mansfield, a US expert on terrorism who monitors militant messages. The fighting at the Red mosque left at least 102 people - including Abdul Rashid Ghazi, one of the militant leaders - dead. Bin Laden said Ghazi and his followers had been killed for seeking the application of Sharia Islamic law. "So Pervez, his ministers, his soldiers and those who help him are all accomplices in the spilling the blood of those of the Muslims who have been killed," he said. "He who helps him knowingly and willingly is an infidel like him." Bin Laden is believed to be hiding in the border area of Afghanistan and Pakistan. In Islamabad, Major General Waheed Arshad, a Pakistan army spokesman, said: "Such threats, issued through videos or in any other way, cannot deter us from fulfilling our national duty. "We have the aim and objective, as our national duty, to eliminate terrorists and eradicate extremism." In a video posted on the same website earlier, Bin Laden's deputy, Ayman al-Zawahri, said the US was losing battles in Afghanistan and Iraq, as well as on other fronts. The 80-minute video message also condemned the Pakistani military over the Red mosque. "Let the Pakistani army know that the killing of Abdul Rashid Ghazi and his male and female students ... has soaked the history of the Pakistan army in shame and despicableness which can only washed away by retaliation," he said. Zawahri called for attacks on French and Spanish interests in north Africa and on the UN and African peacekeepers due to be deployed in Darfur. The Taliban commander, Dadullah Mansoor, was also featured in the video, threatening to "focus our attacks, Allah willing, on the coalition forces in Afghanistan". ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------ http://www.mg.co.za/articlepage.aspx?area=/breaking_news/breaking_news__international_news/&articleid=319836 Al-Qaeda leader Osama bin Laden called on Muslims in Pakistan to wage holy war against the government of President Pervez Musharraf in a new audio message issued on Thursday. Bin Laden declared al-Qaeda's intention to retaliate for the blood spilled of "champions of Islam", in the new recording produced by the terror network's media arm As-Sahab, United States monitoring organization Site Intelligence Group said. "It is obligatory on the Muslims in Pakistan to carry out jihad [holy war] and fighting to remove Pervez, his government, his army and those who help him," said the voice in the tape. The threat from Bin Laden -- the Western world's most wanted man -- was swiftly dismissed by Pakistan. "We are already committed to fighting extremists and terrorists -- there is no change in our policy," chief military spokesperson Major General Waheed Arshad said. "If someone is hurling threats at us, that is their view. The whole nation is behind us and the Pakistan army is a national institution," he added. The threat against Musharraf surfaced just as Pakistan's election commission named October 6 as the date for a presidential poll in which the embattled military ruler will seek re-election in uniform. A string of videos and audio messages has been issued by al-Qaeda to mark the sixth anniversary of the September 11 attacks on the United States in 2001, some featuring Bin Laden, who had previously not been seen for three years. "The imminent call by Bin Laden to fight against Musharraf demonstrates al-Qaeda's long-standing and deep hatred for the Pakistani regime, its principal enemy in the region," said Yasser Serri, director of the Islamic Observatory based in London. In another video released by al-Qaeda's media arm, Bin Laden's deputy Ayman al-Zawahiri also warned that Musharraf would be "punished" over the killing of leading rebel cleric Abdul Rashid Ghazi in the storming of the Red Mosque in Islamabad in July. Pakistan, which became a US ally after the September 11 2001 attacks, has suffered a dramatic upsurge in Islamist violence since the siege and storming of the al-Qaeda-linked mosque, which left more than 100 people dead. In the tape, the bearded and bespectacled al-Zawahiri branded Pakistani security forces "hunting dogs under [uS President George] Bush's crucifix". "Let the Pakistani army know that the killing of Abdul Rashid Ghazi and his male and female students and the demolishing of his masjid and two madrasas [mosque and religious schools] has soaked the history of the Pakistan army in shame and despicableness which can only be washed away by retaliation against the killers of Abdul-Rashid Ghazi and his students," he said. In the same al-Qaeda video, al-Zawahiri and others taunt the US over alleged Islamist victories in Iraq, Afghanistan and elsewhere and call for Muslim allies of Washington to be driven from power. The 81-minute video is a compilation of old TV news clips mixed with new comments from al-Zawahiri. Al-Zawahiri, Bin Laden's Egyptian-born right-hand man, was last month described by US intelligence chief Michael McConnell as al-Qaeda's "intellectual leader". Despite a massive manhunt and a $25-million bounty on his head, Bin Laden has evaded capture and has regularly taunted the US and its allies through warnings issued on video and audio cassettes. -- AFP Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WORDISM45 Posted September 21, 2007 Share Posted September 21, 2007 i'll be very interested to see what kind of ramifications this has, maybe the Pakistani government will actually try to eradicate the terrorists from their borders now that they are more directly threatened Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Theo Huxtable. Posted September 21, 2007 Share Posted September 21, 2007 ^i was thinking that as well. hopefully al qaeda and the tribal areas would have burned their last bridge. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest spectr Posted September 24, 2007 Share Posted September 24, 2007 Well musharraf actually came to power with the backing of islamic fundamentalists which makes this very interesting... Quite a bit of the pakistani military is in league with "terrorists" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest spectr Posted September 24, 2007 Share Posted September 24, 2007 http://www.cnn.com/2007/WORLD/asiapcf/09/24/pakistan.politics.ap/index.html musharraf is cracking down hardcore on the oppisition right now.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
viperface Posted September 25, 2007 Share Posted September 25, 2007 Oh noes! Al Qaeda mustn't win the next elections! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
viperface Posted October 8, 2007 Share Posted October 8, 2007 BBC: Fifty Pakistani troops 'missing' Correspondents say that these military campaigns are deeply unpopular in Pakistan. They are widely seen as carried out under American pressure since Washington wants Pakistan to crack down on pro-Taleban and al-Qaeda fighters near the Afghan border. It is believed the upper ranks of the army broadly accept this policy whatever their personal misgivings. That includes the new deputy head of the army, Lt Gen Kiani. Lt Gen Ashfaq Pervez Kiani Lt Gen Kiani faces a huge challenge in Waziristan Analysts say the danger is in the lower ranks where morale seems to be low. Another batch of more than 200 soldiers were captured recently by militants, and appeared to have surrendered without a fight. Desertion? Denied casualties? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CALIgula Posted October 9, 2007 Share Posted October 9, 2007 i have a weird feeling (especially after reading this statement) that bin laden is probably hiding on the border of afghanistan and iran....pakistan would be dangerous for him now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dawood Posted October 10, 2007 Share Posted October 10, 2007 nah, dude, he's chilling in a safe house promoting the new world order. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CALIgula Posted October 10, 2007 Share Posted October 10, 2007 new world "realm" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dawood Posted October 11, 2007 Share Posted October 11, 2007 ha ha...pretty clever Cali Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest spectr Posted October 12, 2007 Share Posted October 12, 2007 I just got done reading this dope book called the clash of fundamentalisms which actually provides a pretty good history of the middle east, its political struggles in the 20th century, the rise of fundamentalism islam in the middle east, as a counter to impeiralism... check it out if you get the chance... and after reading this book I am more sure that musharraff is going to be gone pretty soon.... its by tariq ali Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest spectr Posted October 15, 2007 Share Posted October 15, 2007 http://scotlandonsunday.scotsman.com/international.cfm?id=1641152007 this is a actually a really good article... This week is going to be fucking interesting to see what happens... I think that there is a very good chance of there being a major uprising in pakistan in the next month.... Especially considering they are the ones who trained, armed, supported the taliban, and helped put them in power in afghanistan, only to turn around and hunt them for the american government.. ... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dawood Posted October 17, 2007 Share Posted October 17, 2007 I just got done reading this dope book called the clash of fundamentalisms which actually provides a pretty good history of the middle east, its political struggles in the 20th century, the rise of fundamentalism islam in the middle east, as a counter to impeiralism... check it out if you get the chance... and after reading this book I am more sure that musharraff is going to be gone pretty soon.... its by tariq ali By using the word "fundamentalism" are you referring to returning to the "fundamental" beliefs and actions that raised the Islamic empire to religious and wordly greatness? Or are you referring to the "fundamentalism" that is usually followed by words like extremism and terrorism? Because nobody seems to want to make that distinction when they throw words like "fundamentalism" around these days. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
boogie hands Posted October 17, 2007 Share Posted October 17, 2007 The Battle of Badr The Battle of Uhud Battle of the Trench The Arab Conquests Conquest of Palestine and Syria Conquest of Iraq Conquest of Egypt im failing to see a clear distinction between "the acts that raised the islamic empire to religious and worldly greatness" and "terrorism" - which, these days, is simply a subjective term for those fighting against the american empire. fill me in here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dawood Posted October 18, 2007 Share Posted October 18, 2007 the meaning of terrorism and extremism http://www.troid.org/media/pdf/terrorismandextremism.pdf islamic empire Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
boogie hands Posted October 19, 2007 Share Posted October 19, 2007 alright...so, youve given me a definition of terrorism written by a devout (clearly american) muslim and a slide show on three prominent scholars from the era of the islamic empire. i dont really know what you want me to do with this or how exactly you thought this would act as a rebuttal. look, the point i am making here is that the people whom america calls "terrorists" are people fighting in the name of their religion and their beliefs. am i sympathetic? not in the least, but im able to see the origins of this situation and understand the fact these people are not "haters of freedom" as our country would like us to believe (though women under their rule would probably argue that point). in a world where religion is constantly diluted to adhere to an evolving societies perception of what is acceptable behavior, these "extremists" stand their ground. part of me actually has a minute dash of respect (the utter disgust outweighs it, believe me) for the talibans, the warren jeffs and the pat robertsons of the world. i am certainly not the authority on this but my perception is that those called extremists are those adhering to the religion in the way it was originally taught. those labeling them as extremists or fundamentalists or what have you, are simply attempting to distance themselves from socially unacceptable aspects of their religious foundation in order to remain mainstream. islam in america is much different than islam in the middle east. this draws parallels to the old testament being replaced by the new testament, the LDS church renouncing polygamy (a teaching issued directly from god, via joseph smith) unitarian churches, etc. i am not opposed to these changes by any means, however, it makes me wonder how committed these people are to the word of their god. how can gods direct orders, issued many centuries ago, evolve, hand in hand, with our culture? to me, an outsider untainted by religious fervor, it seems to mimic our political system. adjust your values just enough to survive. ive gotten longwinded trying to lead up to this but my point is that the muslims you are trying to dismiss are the muslims who are literally adhering to the teachings of their prophet. you can tell me that things are taken out of context, poorly interpreted, molded to an agenda...i just dont believe it. your religion, like all other religions, is simply keeping up with the times, attempting to retain its prominence and power in an age where understanding about the lives we lead is becoming more abundant. essentially, "extremists" today are revealing the roots of the worlds major religions. in turn, the religious powers structure is widening the gap between themselves and these "extremists", and in doing so, chipping away their religions foundation. how can anyone not see how utterly human this process is? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
boogie hands Posted October 19, 2007 Share Posted October 19, 2007 wow....tangent. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dawood Posted October 19, 2007 Share Posted October 19, 2007 Well, you were asking for a distinction between terrorism and "the acts that raised the islamic empire to religious and worldly greatness" I gave it to you in PDF written by the former MINISTER OF RELIGIOUS AFFAIRS OF SAUDI ARABIA , Sheikh Abdul Aziz Ibn Baz. WHo is clearly NOT an american muslim. It would better your argument if you did research before you made erroneous statements like that. I do admit, I've done the same thing on occasion and it did hurt my argument. Well, we know what terrorism is. That should be clear to most of us. I also, gave you a video link to show you the difference between terrorism and legitimate Islamic Jihad, so that should be clear as well, unless you need to go back and read it / watch it again. Now as for your statement "my point is that the muslims you are trying to dismiss are the muslims who are literally adhering to the teachings of their prophet." It's a very peculiar statement coming from someone who is neither an islamic scholar or a student of islamic knowledge. You being neither , and having the confidence to say which group of muslims are following the teachings of the prophet is beyond me.(what group are you referring to anyway) And where did I make any dissmissive statements about any particular muslims? It just amazes me, everybody's an islamic authority these days. As for religions evolving with the times, there's no problem with religious texts evolving to fit modern times so to speak as long as they are grounded in the original sources and nothing is changed or deleted from the original understanding. Different times warrant different measures, but the main belief will remain the same from the beginning to the end. That can't change. Extremism was never a part of Islam in the first place, but in these times when Islam is tied to terrorist acts it's important to know that Islam doesn't support the killing of innocent people. Also know that, Jihad will never be done away with until the Last Day and will remain until the earth crumbles and it pulverized into dust. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest spectr Posted October 19, 2007 Share Posted October 19, 2007 By using the word "fundamentalism" are you referring to returning to the "fundamental" beliefs and actions that raised the Islamic empire to religious and wordly greatness? Or are you referring to the "fundamentalism" that is usually followed by words like extremism and terrorism? Because nobody seems to want to make that distinction when they throw words like "fundamentalism" around these days. I was referring to the extreme fundamentalists, groups like the taliban... not necessarily terrorist groups,as the taliban wasn't until recently. but to groups who have a very narrow view of what Islam is and wish to enforce that view on all Muslims. Some groups take actions that are very contrary to the Koran in the name of Islam. I do not like to describe all these groups as terrorists since they are not, the vast majority are no different then the religious right in this country, and are just very extreme in their interpretation of Islam. Check the book if you get a chance its actually a really good read... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dawood Posted October 19, 2007 Share Posted October 19, 2007 sounds fair enough to me spectr. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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