an open letter to the people of the U.S.

[Stereotype V.0002]

she makes great points. islamics destroyed ancient buddhist statues that were sacred to buddhism. buddhists have never bombed islamic shrines or declared any holy war on muslims. if anything, buddhists are probably the most peaceful religious group that i've ever done research on. muslims call buddhists infidels and disrespect their relgiion. buddhists do no such thing to muslims.

 

This happens all the time in SE Asia, they were playing some footage of a bomb rigged up next to a buddhist monk who was shot to blow when the news and police got there. (they-the cable news)

 

then i begin to think that there is perhaps something inherently wrong within islam.

 

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/6680939.stm

People like dawood and derkaderka80 above don’t represent the majority of Muslims in the US. Middle Eastern culture is incredibly fucked up but Muslims who live in other cultures integrate and are like anyone else, for the most part.

 

Don’t waste your time addressing dawood as if he were a person, with the ability to both read and comprehend the information. When someone speaks out against medieval practices, or blows themselves up, 99% of the people practicing Islam aren’t true adherents as dawood is. Then when you criticize anything about dawood he suddenly represents all Muslims and you are just a bigot in part of the giant jew conspiracy to make him look bad.

[lord_casek]

1 in 4 american muslims feels suicide bombing in certain cases is ok.

[Dawood]

1 in 4 american muslims feels suicide bombing in certain cases is ok.

 

 

As for what some people do regarding activities of suicide, tying explosives to themselves and then approaching disbelievers and detonating them amongst them, then this is a case of suicide and Allaah¹s refuge is sought. So whoever commits suicide then he will be considered eternally to Hell-Fire, remaining there forever, as occurs in the hadeeth of the Prophet, (sal-Allaahu `alayhe wa sallam). (i.e., his, (sal-Allaahu `alayhe wa sallam), saying:

((and whoever kills himself with an iron weapon, then the iron weapon will remain in his hand, and he will continuously stab himself in his belly with it in the Fire of Hell eternally, forever and ever)). Reported by al-Bukhaaree, no. 5778 and Muslim, no. 109, in the Book of Eemaan.)

Because this person has killed himself and has not benefited Islaam. So if he kills himself along with ten, or a hundred, or two hundred other people, then Islaam will not benefit by that, since the people will not accept Islaam, contrary to the story of the boy. Rather it will probably just make the enemy more determined, and this action will provoke malice and bitterness in his heart to such an extent that he may seek to wreak havoc upon the Muslims.

This is what is found from the practice of the Jews with the people of Palestine ; so when one of the Palestinian blows himself up and kills six or seven people, then in retaliation they take sixty or more. So this does not produce any benefit for the Muslims, and does not benefit those amongst whose ranks explosives are detonated.

So what we hold is that those people who perform these suicide (bombings) have wrongfully committed suicide, and that this necessitates entry into Hell-Fire, and Allaah¹s refuge is sought and that this person is not a martyr (shaheed). However if a person has done this based upon misinterpretation, thinking that it is permissible, then we hope that he will be saved from sin, but as for martyrdom being written for him, then no, since he has not taken the path of martyrdom. But whoever performs ijtihaad and errs will receive a single reward (if he is a person qualified to make ijtihaad)."

Shaykh Ibn 'Uthaymeen

Riyaadhus-Saaliheen - Volume 1, Pages 165-166

 

 

 

Where do they get this information from? They release this garbage to further their campaign of Islamophobia, let's do a poll and see how many Americans think it's ok to kill Arab men, women and children for Oil and global positioning.

[lord_casek]

sal-Allaahu `alayhe wa sallam[/url]), saying:[/size][/font]

((and whoever kills himself with an iron weapon, then the iron weapon will remain in his hand, and he will continuously stab himself in his belly with it in the Fire of Hell eternally, forever and ever)). Reported by al-Bukhaaree, no. 5778 and Muslim, no. 109, in the Book of Eemaan.)

Because this person has killed himself and has not benefited Islaam. So if he kills himself along with ten, or a hundred, or two hundred other people, then Islaam will not benefit by that, since the people will not accept Islaam, contrary to the story of the boy. Rather it will probably just make the enemy more determined, and this action will provoke malice and bitterness in his heart to such an extent that he may seek to wreak havoc upon the Muslims.

This is what is found from the practice of the Jews with the people of Palestine ; so when one of the Palestinian blows himself up and kills six or seven people, then in retaliation they take sixty or more. So this does not produce any benefit for the Muslims, and does not benefit those amongst whose ranks explosives are detonated.

So what we hold is that those people who perform these suicide (bombings) have wrongfully committed suicide, and that this necessitates entry into Hell-Fire, and Allaah¹s refuge is sought and that this person is not a martyr (shaheed). However if a person has done this based upon misinterpretation, thinking that it is permissible, then we hope that he will be saved from sin, but as for martyrdom being written for him, then no, since he has not taken the path of martyrdom. But whoever performs ijtihaad and errs will receive a single reward (if he is a person qualified to make ijtihaad)."

Shaykh Ibn 'Uthaymeen

Riyaadhus-Saaliheen - Volume 1, Pages 165-166

 

 

 

Where do they get this information from? They release this garbage to further their campaign of Islamophobia, let's do a poll and see how many Americans think it's ok to kill Arab men, women and children for Oil and global positioning.

 

 

dawood, this was a recent poll from the pew research center.

i don't personally think it's ok to kill anyone, muslim, arab, jew, christian, etc.

however, if "you" threaten my life or my family, i will destroy "you" physically.

mano-a-mano

 

 

race/religion do not play a part in that.

[Theo Huxtable.]

While at first glance that "1 and 4 American Muslims sympathize with suicide bombers" claim seems alarming, what the report actually showed was that most American Muslims are more assimilated and less radical than European Muslims.

 

I agree, American Muslims/Arabs that I hung out with listened to rock and/or hiphop, skateboarded and played football. And not once said anything anti-American, as they considered themselves Americans.

 

When I went to Europe. I noticed Muslim/Arab populations are also much larger in Europe. and they just seemed angrier. Perhaps Europe doesn't do as good a job of assimilating other races/cultures, as much as the US. Or perhaps its closer proximity with the Middle East and the Arab/Muslim world has a lot to do with it. Many of the Muslim bombers or plotters that have been caught in Europe, were actually FROM Europe, some were 2nd and 3rd generations. I can't fathom American Muslims becoming suicide bombers, not based on what I know of them. They're pretty well assimilated into American society.

[Dawood]

in Europe, muslims live in "muslim ghettos" and are treated as second class citizens. I don't think it's so much that europeans hate muslims, more than it is that a lot of them are displaced and undereducated so they receive inferior services and jobs.

I'm a firm beleiver that if anyone is going to help you better your condition it is going to be YOU.

I'm not big on blaming people for my problems, although, the best way to fix a problem is to understand it's root and work from there.

Muslims in america assimilate more and I don't know if that's such a good thing. Co-operation and peaceful co-existance is cool and we should strive for that, but I don't think it's a great thing for muslims to assimilate, too many muslims are losing their identity nowadays and changing from Muhammad to "Mo". I don't expect many people here to understand that, but it's important for people to keep their heritage and that's one thing I dislike about the American experience is that it tends to strip people of their heritage and wash it away with a meaningless popular culture. People get sucked into it.

 

And really, Theo, it all comes down to affluence. Muslims in Europe are more or less poor, and poverty plays a huge role in how a person behaves. Religion aside, poor people act up nowadays.

[Dawood]

I And not once said anything anti-American, as they considered themselves Americans.

 

.

 

 

Was that before or after Dubya? The whole world hates America now, Islam doesn't teach hatred toward America, George Bush is the president of the "everyone hates America Campaign" Jimmy Carter knows.

[Stereotype V.0002]

It’s funny comparing the spin in the bbc article compared to the fox article. BBC ignores the negative parts and fox focuses on it. Well the 26% is appalling but that is from muslims in their teens and 20s, also only 2 percent of them look favorably on Al Qaeda. With Muslims in their 30s and over, 9% think suicide bombing is ok. All of that is still better than European countries, and much better than middle eastern countries.

[Juan Fuentes]

u suicide and thats it! u willfully retire from the fight ,thats unislamic!!

they just see it in the tv and its like,dude u saw that? cool dude lets do it,they did it for islam i wanna be muslim too dude!

 

 

posers!

[Theo Huxtable.]

Was that before or after Dubya? The whole world hates America now, Islam doesn't teach hatred toward America, George Bush is the president of the "everyone hates America Campaign" Jimmy Carter knows.

 

Those particular Arab-American Muslims I hung out with; I doubt theyr'e really concerned with politics. George Bush isn't enough to revolutionize their thinking to where they hate America. Like I said, they are Americans. Do people over there in the Middle East think you can't be American and Muslim at the same time?

[Dawood]

actually, yes they do. I don't really know why, but most people in muslim countries think there are no muslims in America. Especially not people born in America.

[Theo Huxtable.]

in Europe, muslims live in "muslim ghettos" and are treated as second class citizens. I don't think it's so much that europeans hate muslims, more than it is that a lot of them are displaced and undereducated so they receive inferior services and jobs.

I'm a firm beleiver that if anyone is going to help you better your condition it is going to be YOU.

I'm not big on blaming people for my problems, although, the best way to fix a problem is to understand it's root and work from there.

Muslims in america assimilate more and I don't know if that's such a good thing. Co-operation and peaceful co-existance is cool and we should strive for that, but I don't think it's a great thing for muslims to assimilate, too many muslims are losing their identity nowadays and changing from Muhammad to "Mo". I don't expect many people here to understand that, but it's important for people to keep their heritage and that's one thing I dislike about the American experience is that it tends to strip people of their heritage and wash it away with a meaningless popular culture. People get sucked into it.

 

And really, Theo, it all comes down to affluence. Muslims in Europe are more or less poor, and poverty plays a huge role in how a person behaves. Religion aside, poor people act up nowadays.

 

I don't see anything wrong with Muslim assimilation in America. Why would you want them to be outcasted, instead of working together with everyon else towards a common goal -- life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness. Unless you think that goes against Muslim teachings as well? No one told these Muslims to stop being Muslim. Do you think it's possible for a Muslim to watch American movies, listen to American music, and play American sports -- and still be a Muslim?

 

A question: Does Islam in general have an "agree to disagree" philosophy towards other cultures/religions -- or do they renounce everything that exists within the confines of non-Islamic culture?

 

America lets people keep their heritage. People are allowed to practice their own religion. But you say America "strips" people of their heritage -- the great thing about America is that, if anyone chooses to "water-down" their heritage or convert to a different religion; it is on their own terms. America isn't a dictatorship that imposes any assimilation or "heritage-loss". In countries like Iran or Saudi Arabia, if you are a Jew or a Christian, then you will be *forced* to lose your heritage/religion. There's the difference.

[Theo Huxtable.]

actually, yes they do. I don't really know why, but most people in muslim countries think there are no muslims in America. Especially not people born in America.

 

Those are some ignorant motherfuckers then. There are plenty of mosques, American-born Muslims, etc. And they're free to practice it as they wish. And they call themselves Americans... "Arab-Americans," etc. Well, one interesting note is that the majority of Arabs that live in the United States are Christian. More than likely fleeing from oppressive discriminatory Muslim regimes. Same with the Iranian/Persians that live here -- most are Jewish or Christian. Blacks make up the majority of Muslims in the US.

 

You gotta school those people over there that America isn't the antithesis or antonym of Islam. Do they realize there's a Muslim in the US Congress? Do they realize that Thomas Jefferson owned a Quran? Do they realize that within the rotunda of the US Supreme Court building, is an engraving of the Prophet Muhammad?

 

I'm assuming that peaceful assimilation and respect for other religions is a concept that many Middle Eastern muslims just do not get. It's a concept that they cannot grasp. That's why they can't fathom the thought of the existance of American muslims, and Islam's peaceful coexistance (for the most part) within American society. Because they themselves do not respect other people's heritages/religions.

[ILOTSMYBRAIN]

I'll agree with you Theo on you're last point.

 

Everyone just points the finger of blame in the opposite direction, which basically has us all chasing our tails.

 

What we're doing is creating a intense hatred for each other, which will only end really really badly.

[Dawood]

I don't see anything wrong with Muslim assimilation in America. Why would you want them to be outcasted, instead of working together with everyon else towards a common goal -- life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness. Unless you think that goes against Muslim teachings as well? No one told these Muslims to stop being Muslim. Do you think it's possible for a Muslim to watch American movies, listen to American music, and play American sports -- and still be a Muslim?

 

A question: Does Islam in general have an "agree to disagree" philosophy towards other cultures/religions -- or do they renounce everything that exists within the confines of non-Islamic culture?

 

America lets people keep their heritage. People are allowed to practice their own religion. But you say America "strips" people of their heritage -- the great thing about America is that, if anyone chooses to "water-down" their heritage or convert to a different religion; it is on their own terms. America isn't a dictatorship that imposes any assimilation or "heritage-loss". In countries like Iran or Saudi Arabia, if you are a Jew or a Christian, then you will be *forced* to lose your heritage/religion. There's the difference.

 

when I mentioned assimilation , I meant it not in such a literal sense. I run a business and get along with people very well. Muslims and otherwise. I don't bring religion or my beleifs into every little issue although I do use it as a guideline on how to deal with people.

That being said. I think you misunderstood what I meant when I was talking about assimilation. Some assimilation is bad and some is not so bad.

 

Islam is a religion that seeks to bring benefit to peoples lives in every way possible so, if it comes to your mind to interpret something I said in a way that what I said would seem to bring harm to people, then assume otherwise. Islam is a religion of moderacy and rectification of heart , soul, body and mind in this life and the hereafter.

I've been studying Islam for 6 years and I don't consider myself a serious student by any means, but Islam has principles that we work by , one of them being. It is always better to weigh the benefit and harm of a situation before making a decision on it. for example, we know that muslims don't eat pig, right? Everyone knows that. But what if I was stranded on an island and all there was to eat was pig? Should I starve myself? Starving myself would undoubtedly be the greater evil , so I would eat the pig to stay alive.

That being said. We use these same principles in our day to day.

 

And, No, Islam doesn't automatically disagree with other cultures , it depends upon what you are talking about. Every issue differs. We may agree on more than you know , Theo, It's just that we're on a message board and I tend to be a voice for Islam here defending the accusations people continually hurl at Islam because certain enemies to Allah's religion have an agenda to associate everything evil with Islam and thus people have boatloads of misconceptions , not to mention, misunderstandings even on issues of morality within their own mind. What's a brother to do?

 

I can't speak on any particular country , but according to islamic law, under Shariah, Jews and Christians are allowed to practice their religion but not allowed to preach it openly. That seems totally reasonable to me beacuse I wouldn't allow anyone to come into my house poppin' that son of God mess and well, since Saudi Arabia is what? 99% muslim and home to the 2 single holiest sites in Islam, I think that's a reasonable request on their part.

[Dawood]

Those are some ignorant motherfuckers then. There are plenty of mosques, American-born Muslims, etc. And they're free to practice it as they wish. And they call themselves Americans... "Arab-Americans," etc. Well, one interesting note is that the majority of Arabs that live in the United States are Christian. More than likely fleeing from oppressive discriminatory Muslim regimes. Same with the Iranian/Persians that live here -- most are Jewish or Christian. Blacks make up the majority of Muslims in the US.

 

You gotta school those people over there that America isn't the antithesis or antonym of Islam. Do they realize there's a Muslim in the US Congress? Do they realize that Thomas Jefferson owned a Quran? Do they realize that within the rotunda of the US Supreme Court building, is an engraving of the Prophet Muhammad?

 

I'm assuming that peaceful assimilation and respect for other religions is a concept that many Middle Eastern muslims just do not get. It's a concept that they cannot grasp. That's why they can't fathom the thought of the existance of American muslims, and Islam's peaceful coexistance (for the most part) within American society. Because they themselves do not respect other people's heritages/religions.

 

 

wait? the majority of Arabs in the Us are what? Chriastian??? I don't beleive that for a second. And to be fair, all I can speak on is my experience in Egypt. People there in General were shocked to see an american born muslim, but those that were educated knew better. The Egyptian govt. sucks and the education is terrible , not to mention the poverty that contributes to the ignorance among a lot of people. Middle eastern people today are being bombarded by all types of propaganda to hate the west. Most of them don't hate americans though, just the american administration, they are human enough to know that people are just people no matter where you are.

[Juan Fuentes]

education is the problem in the middle east,and misinformation.

people is people anywhere,they werent born evil...

[Theo Huxtable.]

wait? the majority of Arabs in the Us are what? Chriastian??? I don't beleive that for a second.

 

 

Yes, I read this in an LA Times article a couple years ago.

 

The main reason they live in the US and other non-Arab countries was to flee discrimination and oppression wrought on upon them by their Islamic governments and their society.

 

Most American Arabs are of Lebanese descent, or are from Lebanon. As you probably already know, Lebanon has the largest Christian-Arab population in the Arab world.

 

 

The Arab American Institute states that most Arabs are non-Muslim.

 

http://www.aaiusa.org/

 

From an article I found:

 

Conversely and somewhat surprisingly, though, the majority of Arab Americans are non-Muslim. This fact runs counter to the common mainstream assumption that the terms "Arab" and "Muslim" are interchangeable. In reality, the major religious affiliations of Arab Americans are as follows: Catholic (42%), Orthodox (23%), Muslim (23%), and Protestant (12%) (Zogby, 2001).

 

http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_qa3934/is_200301/ai_n9170054/pg_4

[Juan Fuentes]

arab as in the so called "arab world",not saudi arabia arabic arab arabian dudes.

[Theo Huxtable.]

what do you mean? yes, iraq, saudi arabia, lebanon, palestine, jordan, egypt -- they're all arabs.

[Dawood]

Yes, I read this in an LA Times article a couple years ago.

 

The main reason they live in the US and other non-Arab countries was to flee discrimination and oppression wrought on upon them by their Islamic governments and their society.

 

Most American Arabs are of Lebanese descent, or are from Lebanon. As you probably already know, Lebanon has the largest Christian-Arab population in the Arab world.

 

 

The Arab American Institute states that most Arabs are non-Muslim.

 

www.aaiusa.org/

 

From an article I found:

 

Conversely and somewhat surprisingly, though, the majority of Arab Americans are non-Muslim. This fact runs counter to the common mainstream assumption that the terms "Arab" and "Muslim" are interchangeable. In reality, the major religious affiliations of Arab Americans are as follows: Catholic (42%), Orthodox (23%), Muslim (23%), and Protestant (12%) (Zogby, 2001).

 

http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_qa3934/is_200301/ai_n9170054/pg_4

 

well, I don't have the time or the resources to see how accurate that is, but surprisingly enough, the majority of muslims are not arab either, they are asian. go figure.

[Juan Fuentes]

what makes an american a american? being from the usa.

arabs are from saudi arabia, because arab is a nationality thing,if not what? race no,religion either. i dont then know theo.

(lebanese, palestinian, jordanian, egyptian)

[Theo Huxtable.]

well, I don't have the time or the resources to see how accurate that is, but surprisingly enough, the majority of muslims are not arab either, they are asian. go figure.

 

I believe that. By Asian I'm assuming you mean East Asian, since many Arab lands are in Asia as well. But yes, Indonesia is the largest Muslim country in the world. Combine that with Muslims in Thailand, Phillipines, Malaysia, Singapore -- East Asian nations with significant Muslim populations.

[Theo Huxtable.]

what makes an american a american? being from the usa.

arabs are from saudi arabia, because arab is a nationality thing,if not what? race no,religion either. i dont then know theo.

(lebanese, palestinian, jordanian, egyptian)

 

Arab is an ethnicity. A Lebanese's nationality may be "Lebanese", but his ethnicity would be Arab.

 

Saudi Arabians' nationality would be "Saudi" or "Saudi Arabian" -- but their ethnicity is Arab, just like an Iraqi's ethnicty is Arab.

 

Basically what I'm saying is that Saudi Arabia is not the only Arab nation.

 

You can compare this to an indigenous American from Mexico, and an indigenous American from Peru. One is Mexican, one is Peruvian -- but they are both the same race (indigenous/native American).

[Juan Fuentes]

well if u see it like that yes,because they really are similar,still different,but it would be more acurate to call them middle eastern because there is a country by that name and there can be confusion...

 

The linguistic and political denotation inherent in the term "Arab" is generally dominant over genealogical considerations...from wiki

[Theo Huxtable.]

well if u see it like that yes,because they really are similar,still different,but it would be more acurate to call them middle eastern because there is a country by that name and there can be confusion...

 

The linguistic and political denotation inherent in the term "Arab" is generally dominant over genealogical considerations...from wiki

 

i have never heard anyone being "confused" and thought arabs only came from saudi arabia. you're the first person i've seen say this. "saudi arabia" just happens to be the name of the country. the common nationality adjective is "saudi", not "arab", since arabs are from many countries in that region.

 

middle eastern is inaccurate, because all countries in the middle east are not arab countries. iran for example (persian). then, not all arab countries are in them middle east (northwest africa). also, "middle eastern" is a eurocentric term -- from a european standpoint, china and japan is seen as "the far east", while the closer persia and mesopotamia was seen as the "middle east". most traditional arabs do not refer to themselves as "middle easterners".

[lord_casek]

thought it was saud since the kings have been from the house of saud....

[Dawood]

yes, Arabia was renamed Saudi Arabia when the family of Saud took control of it. And THeo, so that you know, The term Arab was a commonly known term in the peninsula of arabia before the advent of Islam. Then with islam it spread to other regios that are now known as "arab" regions.

Traditionally, Arabia included the areas now known as Saudi Arabia, Yemen, Oman, the United Arab Emirates, Qatar, Bahrain, and Kuwait.

[WORDISM45]

well if u see it like that yes,because they really are similar,still different,but it would be more acurate to call them middle eastern because there is a country by that name and there can be confusion...

 

The linguistic and political denotation inherent in the term "Arab" is generally dominant over genealogical considerations...from wiki

 

dude it's quite frustrating the way every time you are wrong, no matter how insignificant it is, you can;t just say 'oh hsit my bad' you have to go and make some irrelevant post defending your already debunked point of view

[Juan Fuentes]

when u say arab I(myself,not what i have to be for people to like me) think of arabia,and i dont see it as a race.

 

if not tell me why the term "arab". i dont call u koala i call u australian because u are from australia.

 

the thing here is that u are a denier like theo and u jump for him,nobody called u or asked u so stop the gossip because thats the last thing i come to the net for.

 

pm me if u have any problems so i can disscus it with u. not here.