Godamn muslims.. dare you to beat our dicks.

[Larry Pubes]

come on guys, officials carry out the stonings....that means it's professional, not some goons off the street who don't know how to throw a rock properly. the awesome thing is that stonings are public, so the whole family can swing by after they pick some veggies from the market and catch a little death and destruction on the way home.

[heavyLox]

its great to differentiate true Islam and false Islam, and i might be to your benefit to do the same for other religions. GWB claims to be a Christian, yet ignores many of the basic tenants of the faith, but the rest of us are lumped into that. I hail rastafari, but will never put my beliefs in front of human life. I understand two wrongs don't make a right but at a certain point everyone on all sides need to man up and talk truth instead of fiction.

Dawood speaks from and idealistically irrelevant point. Islam today is not what it was; the way it 'should' is rarely the way it is. the same applies to GWB, he speaks of christ and the moral high ground yet here at home people starve and suffer injustice. In its essence all religion is right, however it gets turned into a derisive popularity contest. From a stand point of whats going on in the streets world wide, we all have large sticks in our eyes, while we try to recuse our brothers we are blind ourselves.

Dawood i have love for you as a human but, im am not in favor of anything that allows you to cast an entire group or country in to the abyss of heathenism simply because their policy makers walk with faulty steps. Its a slippery slope; if there was a country practicing and flourishing on any perfect religious basis we could then talk about it as a reality; however there is not country whose religious leanings have made them a stronger and more prosperous nation on its own.

 

GWB is as good a Christian as Saddam was a Muslim; religion is a cloak the hides and shields us from seeing beings as human and allows us to treat them like things in our way.

 

PRIDE GOETH BEFORE THE FALL, and brothers we are all free falling right now. and as i see it loving humans not religion is the way to solve it, however i am open to other solutions, that allow you to be you and me to be me. Holla if you hear me.

[Stereotype V.0002]

So dawood, you are going with the compelling argument that I’m an asshole and, if in highschool with me, you would have totally kicked my ass? Wicked pissah, and intimidating! I can see why someone with the “you disagree with me so I am going to hurt you” ideology gravitates to the form of Islam you have chosen. Interesting you are building a house in Egypt, just out of curiosity is it presently in construction or this is just a plan? Do you speak Arabic? Are you going to paint graffiti signs for businesses there to get by? Well enjoy the low crime rates, high income, food, health care, and overall better standard of living...in Egypt. yeah.

 

Its very interesting you brought up the example of the Monrovian style double murder from the other thread as an example of how barbaric the US is...what do you think Arab-muslim militias and the Sudanese govt are doing to blacks in Darfur right now? What do you think is happening to Shias caught in Sunni neighborhoods, or vice versa, in Baghdad or Karachi? What happens in honor killings? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Honor_killing (she had her nose hacked off as a punishment in pakistan apparently)

the website, and image, are media lies because America is on a middle eastern witch hunt right?

 

"I don't readily beleive everything satans news media tells me about that Afghani or this Iranian or Iraqi did because everyone fully knows that America is on a witchunt in the middle east "

Can you really convince yourself all negative things associated with Sharia/Islam doesn’t happen, and its all lies from the media?

[Stereotype V.0002]

"the proper officials handle the execution, not common people off the street throwing rocks at people. "

 

You're full of shit, although I don't see how someone getting killed by an proper rock throwing official is any better than the angry mob that actually does it.

 

"There is not ONE country in the world ruling by sharia, not even Saudi Arabia, they are close,"

 

"first off, I need to contiually remind you that I never said Islamic governments of today were Sharia"

 

No, it isn't true sharia, just close? You know all of the fucked up shit mentioned above happens regularly in the kingdom of saud right? And some might even say the offensively rich royal family are a bit corrupt? You do the exact same thing in other posts about terrorists...they aren't real Muslims or it isn't a "true jihad" yet you justify it in the next sentence. Get a fucking grip. I realize I am being an dick as well but someone who apparently supports the things you do really deserves it. I’d also say I know Christianity was the cause for the same type of fucked up society before the reformation…and there is a very good reason this period of time was called “the dark ages.” But how would you like having your hands chopped off, or being brutally fucking murdered, for graffiti and thievery and other things you did before your enlightenment? Is there a statue of limitations in sharia, or is it different when its happening to you?

[WORDISM45]

I don't know about digging a person in the hole, but if someone commits adultery, they should be stoned to death. If more people were stoned to death for adultery, less people would commit it and there would be faaaaar less social problems as a result of it.

 

Almost ALL of the non muslims that I ge up with have no Idea who their father is. That is unheard of among muslims (except muslims who were raised as non muslims) That's because your women are promiscuous whores who sleep around with every jumpoff in the bar and your men are irresponsible dogs in heat, even worse than animals sniffing eachothers asses and as a result of it you have no Idea who your dad is.

 

hahaha dawood dawood dawood. Just so you know every single non-muslim i know knows exactly who their father is (yes every single one) and over here we have a problem with muslim "irresponsible dogs" going around gang raping young vulnerable girls. you're fuckign full of shit you try to pass yourself off as some benevolent muslim scholar but you're just as much of a violent fundamentalist idiot as your filthy dog brethren that drive around the city trying to find little girls to rape

[WORDISM45]

seriosuly i cannot believe you just called every non-muslim woman a promiscious whore you realyl are a fucking moron. speaking of promiscuity i was reading an article the other day about how heaps of muslim women are getting 'hymenoplasty' (reconstructive surgery for their hymen) because they are afraid when they go to fuck their new husband on their wedding night and they don;t bleed they will be killed.

[Juan Fuentes]

come on guys, officials carry out the stonings....that means it's professional, not some goons off the street who don't know how to throw a rock properly. the awesome thing is that stonings are public, so the whole family can swing by after they pick some veggies from the market and catch a little death and destruction on the way home.

 

not always,and i really dont know the rate of public stonnings which regular people,or animals better yet, participate in throwing stones,but it could be a big number.

barbaric acts,really harsh,so harsh only if God told me to do i would do,still God cannot mandate such thing and has not done so.

 

the psychological impact on those poor ignorant people who see that,i feel sorry for them...

[Dawood]

well, since everyone in here is so fond my posts I'll continue. Let me say now, that these barbaric acts, like cutting peoples nose off and setting them on fire are NOT FROM SHARIAH, so why do people keep posting these references in an attempt to mar the image of Islam. Islam is free from these horrible acts even if you and your news media present them as Islamic. Also, In Islamic countries like Saudi Arabia where there is public stoning for Adultery or sentence of death for drug dealing etc. There are probably no more than 10-25 death sentences like this per year which means what? CRIME IS EXTREMELY LOW THERE!

I was in Saudi arabia for a good period of time, enough to see how safe people were. Enough to see that the difference between America and Saudi Arabia is like night and day in terms of crime and safety. Gold shop owners leave their gold shops un attended to go pray and come back to find them the same they were before they left. People don't steal there...Why? Oh because the evil religion forces them not to, that's why...No, because people fear God first, and don't want their hand cut off , second. It works, It's an effective deterrent, same as Stoning the adulterer. If you get an urge, as all humans do, then be a man, get married and take care of a family. Why do you think Aids is so rampant in America and not in places like egypt and saudi Arabia? This religion is your medicine, and people are too sick to even realize it. It's like the drunk who can't get off the bottle because it hurts too much in the beginning to get off that schwill.

 

And Yum, let me take that back, not every non muslim woman is a whore. It would be rediculous for me to assert that. I was speaking in general, but not all inclusively.

 

Stereotype, if i grew up in an Islamic society, I probably wouldn't have done illegal graffiti and just so you know, there is graffiti in Saudi Arabia. thay don't kill people for it. Don't beleive everything you read or hear......experience is much better than just beleiving hearsay. And I'd still like to whip your ass, not because you disagree with me, but because (as you admitted)...youre a dick.

 

ps. to put it all in perspective, this is 12 oz. and I'm not that mad at you stereotype....still like to jimmy superfly snooka you off the top rope, though.

[Dawood]

not always,and i really dont know the rate of public stonnings which regular people,or animals better yet, participate in throwing stones,but it could be a big number.

barbaric acts,really harsh,so harsh only if God told me to do i would do,still God cannot mandate such thing and has not done so.

 

the psychological impact on those poor ignorant people who see that,i feel sorry for them...

 

what???

 

The woman and the man guilty of illegal sexual intercourse, flog each of them with a hundred stripes. Let not pity withhold you in their case, in a punishment prescribed by Allâh, if you believe in Allâh and the Last Day. And let a party of the believers witness their punishment. (This punishment is for unmarried persons guilty of the above crime but if married persons commit it, the punishment is to stone them to death, according to Allâh's Law). (An-Nur 24:2)

[Stereotype V.0002]

“Let me say now, that these barbaric acts, like cutting peoples nose off and setting them on fire are NOT FROM SHARIAH”

The majority of these incidences are in ass backwards Muslim nations, committed by followers of Islam (most being extremely ignorant/uneducated), because this is how they interpret the Koran. You have previously justified some of these acts, like stoning a women for alleged adultery (or dealing drugs, crimes on the earth, homosexuality, etc in the utopia that is the kingdom of saud). In one sentence this is a perversion of Islam, and in another you condone it.

 

“Islam is free from these horrible acts even if you and your news media present them as Islamic”

Dude, it isn’t a media conspiracy to destroy the image of Islam, these things actually happen. Those are real photos if you want to scroll up the page. It is incredibly common, even in Saudi Arabia. Pull your head out of your ass.

 

”countries like Saudi Arabia where there is public stoning for Adultery or sentence of death for drug dealing etc. There are probably no more than 10-25 death sentences like this per year”

Wrong. And you forgot witchcraft in your list of crimes in which you should go to chop chop Friday. I bet you spent a Friday there when in Saudi Arabia and sat there with a fucking hard on. http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/middle_east/693729.stmhttp://www.amnesty.org/ailib/intcam/saudi/briefing/8.html(I’m sorry about posting those links BTW, they are obviously a plot against you since they prove your bullshit fantasy world to be completely false.)

 

”CRIME IS EXTREMELY LOW THERE!”

Yeah, because Saudi Arabia is super fucking rich. Check out some other less oil rich countries, which for whatever reason don’t get any of their Muslim brothers’ cash to lift them out of squalor. And how do you rationalize the extremely close relationship of America, the baby killing crusader imperialists, with your wetdream of an Islamic nation?

 

” . Why do you think Aids is so rampant in America and not in places like egypt and saudi Arabia?”

Again, very wrong. These countries deal with the problem by completely ignoring it and pretending it doesn’t exist. Muslim nations have some of the highest AIDS/HIV rates.“Riyadh, Asharq Al-Awsat- A senior official at the Ministry of Health in Saudi Arabia criticized on Monday a medical consultant for revealing the number of AIDS cases in the Kingdom.

 

Dr. Aisha Metwalli, a female consultant at King Abdulaziz hospital in Jeddah told a women's cultural conference earlier in the week that, according to the latest medical statistics, the number of people with AIDS has reached 72380 in Saudi Arabia." “

http://www.danielpipes.org/comments/37884

”UNAIDS estimates that 13,000 people in Egypt -- which has the highest hepatitis C prevalence in the world -- in 2005 were HIV-positive,”http://www.medicalnewstoday.com/medicalnews.php?newsid=58526

 

”if i grew up in an Islamic society, I probably wouldn't have done illegal graffiti”

Of course it doesn’t apply to you. You didn’t grow up in one, right? Don’t be such a hypocrite, cut your own hands off. I think the best part of your posts is the constant refrain that you want to beat me up, and everything that you are presented with which proves the fantasy you have in your head wrong is a conspiracy to smear Islam. This is the internet, it isn’t too intimidating my good goomba. And again, do you speak Arabic?

[Juan Fuentes]

dawood,stonning, kills brutally ,that punishment above does not,the flogging.

and after all the moral should be used as to who these "believers" gotta be and not put kids,small kids,watching that stuff,as it normally happens in these soooo "islamic" countries.

i didnt contradicted myself.

 

 

also i need the mathematic answer dawood

 

peace

[WORDISM45]

 

And Yum, let me take that back, not every non muslim woman is a whore. It would be rediculous for me to assert that. I was speaking in general, but not all inclusively.

 

 

man its your exact disgusting mentality that some muslim leaders over here use to excuse these fucked up dog muslim adolescents targeting and raping "white girls". They say that because they weren't completely covered they were tempting the boys and are thus "whores". And use the analogy "you don't blame the cat for stealing uncovered meat"

 

your religions contempt for women really shines through in the fact that you can attempt to defend a generalisation you just made that the majority of the worlds female population are whores.

[El Mamerro]

(she had her nose hacked off as a punishment in pakistan apparently)

 

 

Looks like her eyeballs were removed as well.

[Dawood]

man its your exact disgusting mentality that some muslim leaders over here use to excuse these fucked up dog muslim adolescents targeting and raping "white girls". They say that because they weren't completely covered they were tempting the boys and are thus "whores". And use the analogy "you don't blame the cat for stealing uncovered meat"

 

your religions contempt for women really shines through in the fact that you can attempt to defend a generalisation you just made that the majority of the worlds female population are whores.

 

 

Look, theres no excuce for rape, no matter who it is. You and I both know that , so don't twist my words and act as if I justified anything remotely close to rape, I never even mentioned it, you did. Ignored your comments about muslims riding around in trucks raping women as if it's some huge epidemic in your neighborhood.

I grew up in America, I live in America (presently) and I know the mentality of a HUGE majority of women here. Islam respects women more than you could imagine, that's why it encourages marriage and extra marital sex is considered sinful. TO PROTECT THE SOCIETY. And women specifically. No doubt women shouldn't be uncovered and no doubt a woman in a miniskirt with a tight strap on top is going to attract men. And no doubt, that same woman is most likely going to attract a whole lot of UNWANTED attention, that's why when women become muslim in America and cover themselves in modest dress they talk about how liberated they feel from the unwanted advances of men. And stop putting words in my mouth. You draw conclusions from your own mind and apply them to me and my religion based on the actions of what? one person? One incident? how many Muslim are supposedly riding around town raping women right now? And how many muslim leaders are defending them? Tha's a pile of crap.

 

Women are more respected in the religion of Islam, than you know. Next time you see a practicing muslim woman, just ask her. I'm serious, ask her how she feels about Islam's treatment of women and see the response you get, I'm confident you'll be surprised how strongly she feels about her religion, and that she's not the oppressed , ignorant person the news media want's you to think she is.

[Dawood]

dawood,stonning, kills brutally ,that punishment above does not,the flogging.

and after all the moral should be used as to who these "believers" gotta be and not put kids,small kids,watching that stuff,as it normally happens in these soooo "islamic" countries.

i didnt contradicted myself.

 

 

also i need the mathematic answer dawood

 

peace

 

Juan....forget it, man.

[WORDISM45]

im talking about your attitude to non-muslim women!! try to justify that!!!

 

And it was actually the grand mufti of australia that made the comment i quoted so yeah hes the most prominent muslim figure over here.

 

The last time a publicised rape case was exactly as i described was earlier this year when 2 pakistani brothers were convicted of raping a 15 yr old and their father who is a lawyer tried to use the fact that they were muslims as an excuse for it (because they werent used to a society where a girl could walk around without a burqa on).

 

Another really big case happened one or two years ago which involved a gang of somehting like 20 muslims aged 16-25 serial raping a bunch of different random "white sluts" (as they and you both describe them) whom they kidnapped from the streets, trains etc and took them back to a park gang raped them repeatedly then hosed them down with a public hydrant. they were organised attacks co-ordinated city wide by mobile phone calls between the men g-ing eachother up to come and rape another "aussie slut"

[Dawood]

[quote=Stereotype V.0002;5405832The majority of these incidences are in ass backwards Muslim nations, committed by followers of Islam (most being extremely ignorant/uneducated), because this is how they interpret the Koran. You have previously justified some of these acts, like stoning a women for alleged adultery (or dealing drugs, crimes on the earth, homosexuality, etc in the utopia that is the kingdom of saud). In one sentence this is a perversion of Islam, and in another you condone it.

 

Look, stoning for adultery is part of Islam, Same with Judaism and christianity. It has it's conditions. I never said stoning the adulterer is a perversion of Islam, what I did say is a perversion is these other things like setting people on fire or cutting body parts off, that's not my religion, nor is it the shariah, so don't post it like it is trying to hurt the Image of Islam.

 

Dude, it isn’t a media conspiracy to destroy the image of Islam, these things actually happen. Those are real photos if you want to scroll up the page. It is incredibly common, even in Saudi Arabia. Pull your head out of your ass.

 

Ok, so no media ever distorts things or ever has an agenda. Nobody in the media ever lies or depicts things inaccurately. check. I got it.

 

”countries like Saudi Arabia where there is public stoning for Adultery or sentence of death for drug dealing etc. There are probably no more than 10-25 death sentences like this per year”

Wrong. And you forgot witchcraft in your list of crimes in which you should go to chop chop Friday. I bet you spent a Friday there when in Saudi Arabia and sat there with a fucking hard on. http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/middle_east/693729.stmhttp://www.amnesty.org/ailib/intcam/saudi/briefing/8.html(I’m sorry about posting those links BTW, they are obviously a plot against you since they prove your bullshit fantasy world to be completely false.)

 

Yeah, I totally, beleive these liars more than the dozens of people I know who live there and said it's rare..

I was there over a month and I never heard of or saw anything of the sort.

 

”CRIME IS EXTREMELY LOW THERE!”

Yeah, because Saudi Arabia is super fucking rich. Check out some other less oil rich countries, which for whatever reason don’t get any of their Muslim brothers’ cash to lift them out of squalor. And how do you rationalize the extremely close relationship of America, the baby killing crusader imperialists, with your wetdream of an Islamic nation?

 

Wrong, i lived in Egypt too, and for example, kids don't get abducted and molested in Egypt, It just doesn't happen. I was told that it happened one time in the 80's (in cairo) by a british guy and the people caught him and tore him apart in the streets. Now, you call that barbaric or whatever, but they don't have child abduction problem in Egypt because of the the way they handle the problem.

 

” . Why do you think Aids is so rampant in America and not in places like egypt and saudi Arabia?”

Again, very wrong. These countries deal with the problem by completely ignoring it and pretending it doesn’t exist. Muslim nations have some of the highest AIDS/HIV rates.“Riyadh, Asharq Al-Awsat- A senior official at the Ministry of Health in Saudi Arabia criticized on Monday a medical consultant for revealing the number of AIDS cases in the Kingdom.

 

Dr. Aisha Metwalli, a female consultant at King Abdulaziz hospital in Jeddah told a women's cultural conference earlier in the week that, according to the latest medical statistics, the number of people with AIDS has reached 72380 in Saudi Arabia." “

http://www.danielpipes.org/comments/37884

”UNAIDS estimates that 13,000 people in Egypt -- which has the highest hepatitis C prevalence in the world -- in 2005 were HIV-positive,”http://www.medicalnewstoday.com/medicalnews.php?newsid=58526

 

oh, great, Daniel pipes, how objective....

 

”if i grew up in an Islamic society, I probably wouldn't have done illegal graffiti”

Of course it doesn’t apply to you. You didn’t grow up in one, right? Don’t be such a hypocrite, cut your own hands off. I think the best part of your posts is the constant refrain that you want to beat me up, and everything that you are presented with which proves the fantasy you have in your head wrong is a conspiracy to smear Islam. This is the internet, it isn’t too intimidating my good goomba. And again, do you speak Arabic?

 

I did those things before I became muslim and Islam wipes out the sins prior to it. Also, If I committed a crime in an Islamic country that warranted the punishment of that land I would accept it. There's no hypocracy in that. If I committed a crime here in the states that warranted a certain punishment, I would accept that too, I'm a grown man and I understand that if I break the law, I can be punished by authorities. You are just speaking too much about something you don't understand. So before jumping to conclusions and trying your hardest with google to overcome and out argue me, why don't you try to understand something you obvioulsy don't know about?............Wa na'am Ana taqallum al Lugha'tul Arabia...wa anta kalb

 

 

malikum kayfa tahqumun?

[russell jones]

not all Muslims agree with you Dawood. Check out this site.

 

http://www.freemuslims.org/

[Dawood]

Not everyone who claims to be a muslim is actually a muslim. One of the aims of the U.S govt. is to change Islam and secularize it like christianity.

 

 

here are some excerpts from http://www.freemuslims.org/ weighed against statements from the quran.

 

We believe in the re-interpretation of Islam for the 21st century where terrorism is not justified under any circumstances.

 

 

OK, the part about terrorism not being justified, ok, I'm with that. but the part about re-interpretng the quran??

 

Allah says

This day, I have perfected your religion for you, completed My Favour upon you, and have chosen for you Islâm as your religion. (Al-Ma'idah 5:3)

 

And whoever contradicts and opposes the Messenger (Muhammad SAW) after the right path has been shown clearly to him, and follows other than the believers' way. We shall keep him in the path he has chosen, and burn him in Hell - what an evil destination. (An-Nisa 4:115)

 

 

 

We believe in the separation of religion and state.

 

“And so judge (you O Muhammad) among them by what Allaah has revealed and follow not their vain desires”

 

[al-Maa’idah 5:49]

 

 

 

 

We believe that democracy is the best form of government.

 

“And so judge (you O Muhammad) among them by what Allaah has revealed and follow not their vain desires”

 

Let the people of the Injeel (Gospel) judge by what Allâh has revealed therein. And whosoever does not judge by what Allâh has revealed (then) such (people) are the Fâsiqûn (the rebellious i.e. disobedient (of a lesser degree) to Allâh. (Al-Ma'idah 5:47)

 

[al-Maa’idah 5:49]

 

 

So if we use the quran to judge, like Allah says, then how if someone is claiming to be a muslim, do they think democracy, which is governed by the desires of people is a better system?

 

Ask the Children of Israel how many clear Ayât (proofs, evidences, verses, lessons, signs, revelations, etc.) We gave them. And whoever changes Allâh's Favour after it had come to him, [e.g. renounces the Religion of Allâh (Islâm) and accepts Kufr (disbelief),] then surely, Allâh is Severe in punishment. (Al-Baqarah 2:211)

 

 

and on another note, Allah mentioned in the quran this verse that expalins in totality what is happening today.

 

 

And those who disbelieve are allies to one another, (and) if you (Muslims of the whole world collectively) do not do so (i.e. become allies, as one united block with one Khalifah - chief Muslim ruler for the whole Muslim world to make victorious Allâh's Religion of Islâmic Monotheism), there will be Fitnah (wars, battles, polytheism, etc.) and oppression on earth, and a great mischief and corruption (appearance of polytheism). (Al-Anfal 8:73)

 

 

 

It is to Allaah that we complain when religion becomes a stranger in people’s lives and the immoral enemies of Islam prevail. And Allaah is the One Whose help we seek.

[Dawood]

 

also i need the mathematic answer dawood

 

peace

 

Discussion of numerical miracles in the Qur’aan

 

Many people are infatuated by the different types of miracles in the Qur’aan, including the “numerical miracles”. In newspapers and magazines and on the internet they publish lists of words that are repeated a number of times that corresponds to their structure, and words that are repeated the same number of times as their opposites. They also claim that the word yawm (day) is repeated 365 times and the word shahr (month) is repeated 12 times, and they do this with other words too, such as al-malaa’ikah (angels) and al-shayaateen (devils), and al-dunya (this world) and al-aakhirah (the Hereafter), etc.

Many people think that these numbers are true and that this is one of the miracles of the Qur’aan, but they do not distinguish between subtleties and miracles. Writing a book which contains a specific number of certain words is something that anyone can do; what is so miraculous about that? The miracle that appears in the Book of Allaah is not like these subtleties, rather it is far deeper and greater than that. It is the fact that the most eloquent and well-spoken of the Arabs could not produce anything like the Qur’aan, or ten soorahs of it, or even one soorah. It is not like these subtleties that any writer could produce in any book that he writes, or more.

It should be noted that some people have taken this beyond mere statistics. Some of them have used these numbers to foretell when the state of Israel will fall, and others have used them to say when the Day of Judgement will be. One of the latest fabrications against the Book of Allaah is that which they have published saying that the Qur’aan foretold the explosions in the towers in New York! Based on the number of the verse in al-Tawbah, and the number of the soorah and juz’. All of that is toying with the Book of Allaah which is caused by ignorance of the true nature of the miracle of the Book of Allaah.

Secondly:

By examining the statistics presented by those who have published these numbers, we find that they did not get the numbers of some phrases right, and some of them have been selective in the way they counted the words, and that is so that they might reach the conclusion they want and that they think is in the Book of Allaah.

Shaykh Dr. Khaalid al-Sabt said:

Dr. Ashraf ‘Abd al-Razzaaq Qatanah presented a “study of the numerical miracles in the Holy Qur’aan” which he published in a book entitled: “The Qur’aan and the Numerical Miracles, a critical study of the numerical miracles of the Holy Qur’aan.” In the conclusion to this book he reviews three other books: (1) I’jaaz al-Raqm 19 (The miracle of the number 19) by Baasim Jaraar; (2) al-I’jaaz al-‘Adadi fi’l-Qur’aan (the numerical miracle in the Qur’aan) by ‘Abd al-Razzaaq Nawfal; and (3) al-Mu’jizah (the miracle) by ‘Adnaan al-Rifaa’i. The author reached a conclusion which he describes as follows:

As the result of my study I reached the idea that the “numerical miracle” as presented in these books is not real at all, and these books are based on conditions that are sometimes selective , in order to prove the validity of this view in a way that will make the reader accept these preconceived results referred to above. These selective conditions sometimes lead the author to go against that which is proven according to the consensus of the ummah, such as going against the spelling of the ‘Uthmaani Mus-haf, which is not permissible at all; or adopting the spelling of some words which appears in some Mus-hafs and without paying attention to the spellings in other Mus-hafs. It also goes against basic principles of the Arabic language with regard to synonyms and antonyms.

p. 197, Damascus, Manaar li’l-Nashr wa’l-Tawzee’, first edition, 1420 AH/1999 CE.

Dr. Fahd al-Roomi said something similar about the selective way in which Dr ‘Abd al-Razzaaq Nawfal chose words in order to reach this numerical balance, such as when he said: The word yawm (day) is mentioned 365 times in the Qur’aan, the number of days in a year. In order to prove this he counted the words “al-yawm” and “yawman” but he ignored words such as “yawmukum” (your day) and “yawmuhum” (their day) and yawma’idhin (on that day), because if he had done that, he would have got a different number. The same applies to the word al-isti’aadhah which refers to seeking refuge from the shaytaan. He says that it is repeated 11 times, but he includes in that the words “a’oodhu” (I seek refuge) and “fasta’idh” (seek refuge) but not “ ‘udhtu” (I sought refuge) or “ya’oodhoona” (they seek refuge) or “u’eedhuha” (I seek refuge for her) or “ma’aadh Allaah” (Allaah forbid).

See: Ittijaahaat al-Tafseer fi’l-Qarn al-Raabi’ ‘Ashara (2/699, 700), Beirut, Mu’sasat al-Risaalah, second edition, 1414 AH.

From this well-founded discussion, the answer to the issue of the word “yawm” and the number of times it appears in the Qur’aan, which is mentioned in the question, is clear.

Thirdly:

With regard to the count (of time) (al-hisaab, mentioned in Yoonus 10:5) that Allaah has mentioned in His holy Book, it is the precise count (of time) that does not differ as the years pass, which is the lunar count (of time).

With regard to the verse (interpretation of the meaning):

“And they stayed in their Cave three hundred years, adding nine”

[al-Kahf 18:25],

some of the scholars have stated that the number 300 refers to solar years, and that the number 309 refers to lunar years. This view was refuted by Shaykh Muhammad ibn Saalih al-‘Uthaymeen, who explained in his refutation that the count (of time) with Allaah is lunar, not solar.

Shaykh Muhammad ibn Saalih al-‘Uthaymeen (may Allaah have mercy on him) said:

“adding nine” means that they added nine years to three hundred, so they stayed there for three hundred and nine years. It may be said: Why doesn’t it just say three hundred and nine?

The answer is that this is what is meant, but the Qur’aan is the most eloquent of books, and in order for the ends of the verses to match (in Arabic) it says: “And they stayed in their Cave three hundred (solar) years, adding nine (for lunar years)”. It is not as some people think, that the three hundred refers to solar years and the nine was added for lunar years, because we cannot testify that Allaah meant that. Who can testify that this is what Allaah meant? Even if it so happens that three hundred solar years are equal to three hundred and nine lunar years, we cannot testify about Allaah in this way, because the count (of time) with Allaah is one.

What are the signs by which the count (of time) is reckoned with Allaah?

The answer is that they are the new moons; hence we say that the view that “three hundred years” refers to solar years and “adding nine” refers to lunar years, is a weak view.

Firstly: because we cannot testify that Allaah meant this.

Secondly: because the number of months and years with Allaah is based on the new moons. Allaah says (interpretation of the meaning):

“It is He Who made the sun to be a shining glory and the moon to be a light (of beauty), and measured out stages for it; that ye might know the number of years and the count (of time)”

[Yoonus 10:5]

“They ask you (O Muhammad (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) about the new moons. Say: These are signs to mark fixed periods of time for mankind and for the pilgrimage”

[al-Baqarah 2:189]

Tafseer Soorat al-Kahf.

Reckoning time by the moon and the new moons was well known to the Prophets and their peoples, and reckoning time by the sun was only known to the ignorant followers of false religions, but unfortunately many Muslims follow them nowadays.

Dr Khaalid al-Sabt says, in his refutation of those who say that the verse “The building which they built” [al-Tawbah 9:11] in al-Tawbah refers to the explosions in America:

5 (the fifth point) – These connections are based on the solar calendar, which is a calendar that was inherited from idolatrous nations, and which was of no significance to the Prophets (blessing and peace be upon them). Rather the calendar that counts in sharee’ah is the calendar that is based on the moon and new moons, which is more precise. This indicates that what was known to the Prophets was the lunar calendar. In the hadeeth of Waathilah ibn al-Asqa’ (may Allaah be pleased with him) it says that the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) said: “The Suhuf of Ibraaheem were revealed to him on the first night of Ramadaan, and the Tawrat (Torah) was revealed on the sixth of Ramadaan, and the Injeel (Gospel) on the thirteenth of Ramadaan, and the Furqaan (Qur’aan) was revealed on the twenty-fourth of Ramadaan.” Narrated by Ahmad (4/107) and by al-Bayhaqi in al-Sunan (9/188). Its isnaad is hasan. It was also mentioned by al-Albaani in al-Saheehah (1575). This could not be known unless the calendar was based on the moon and new moons. This is also indicated by the hadeeth which was narrated in al-Saheehayn from Ibn ‘Abbaas (may Allaah be pleased with him) who said: When the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) came to Madeenah, he found the Jews fasting on the day of ‘Ashoora’. He said: “What is this?” They said: This is a good day, this is the day on which Allaah saved the Children of Israel from their enemies. So Moosa fasted on that day … Narrated by al-Bukhaari (2004) and Muslim (1130). And al-Haafiz (may Allaah have mercy on him) stated clearly that they did not base their count (of time) on the sun. See: al-Fath (4/291 and 7/323).

Ibn al-Qayyim (may Allaah have mercy on him) said, commenting on the verses “It is He Who made the sun a shining thing and the moon as a light and measured out for it stages” [Yoonus 10:5] and “And the moon, We have measured for it mansions (to traverse) till it returns like the old dried curved date stalk” [Yaa Seen 36:38, 39]: Hence the lunar calendar was better known among the nations and was less likely to involve errors, and it is more precise than the solar calendar, and all people can follow it easily. Hence Allaah says (interpretation of the meaning): “and measured out for it stages that you might know the number of years and the reckoning” [Yoonus 10:5]. But He did not say that about the sun, hence the months of Hajj, fasting, Eid and other Islamic occasions are based on the lunar calendar. This is by the wisdom of Allaah and His mercy, and so as to protect His religion, as the people may all be able to figure out this count of time easily and avoid mistakes, and so that no differences or confusion would happen to the religion as happened to the people of the Book.

End quote from Miftaah Daar al-Sa’aadah, p. 538, 539.

It may be understood from the last comment of Ibn al-Qayyim (may Allaah have mercy on him) that the people of the Book used to follow a solar calendar, and this was stated clearly by al-Haafiz Ibn Hajar (may Allaah have mercy on him) in his response after he attributed this view to Ibn al-Qayyim. See al-Fath (7/323).

But in fact it played no role in their religion, rather it was introduced after that by the ignorant among them. End quote.

Concerning the things we learn from the verse “They ask you (O Muhammad (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) about the new moons…”, Shaykh Ibn ‘Uthaymeen (may Allaah have mercy on him) said:

… and we learn that the fixed periods of time for all nations are the fixed periods of time that were established by Allaah for them – which are the new moons – so these are global fixed periods of time, because Allaah says “fixed periods of time for mankind”. As for what has happened recently, namely the adoption of the European calendar, there it has no tangible basis and it makes no sense and is not prescribed in sharee’ah. Hence you find that one month has twenty-eight days and some have thirty days and some have thirty one, without any known reason for this discrepancy. Moreover these months have no physical sign that the people can refer to in order to work out time, unlike the lunar months which have a physical sign that is known to everyone. End quote.

Tafseer al-Baqarah (2/371).

Al-Qurtubi said, commenting on the verse “Verily, the number of months with Allaah is twelve months (in a year), so was it ordained by Allaah on the Day when He created the heavens and the earth” [al-Tawbah 9:36]: This verse indicates that rulings on acts of worship and other matters must be connected to the months and years that were known to the Arabs, and not those that were used by the Persians, Byzantines or Copts, and they should not be more than twelve months, because they vary in the number of days; some of them being thirty days and some of them being more or less. But the months of the Arabs never exceed thirty days, although some of them may be less; the ones that are less are not any specific months, rather that varies according to variations in the moon’s movement through the sky. End quote. Tafseer al-Qurtubi (8/133).

And Allaah knows best.

</SPAN>Islam Q&A

[Juan Fuentes]

russell thats more like the guys who are from a muslim background and dont want to lose their CULTURE,not religion,and say anything to please the west and the zionists,they want to "find a way to have a more modern islam that tolerates other faiths" which islam(not the sects) itselfs tolerates other faiths.

so basically they wont want to use the rules of islam on a population,which are light and just,and simple also.but keep the fornication in society and rapists,murderers,torturers and transgresors alive,no death penalty and make islam a ritualistic hobby instead of a system.

 

 

http://www.freeminds.org

 

thats a good website if you want to know about the system of islam.

[Dawood]

oh, so now we're learning islam from the Jehova's witnesses?

[Stereotype V.0002]

Sheikh Tony Dawood Soprano, I don’t speak arabic. I was asking because it would be pretty hilarious if you subscribe to the austere wahabi version yet had never read the “true” Koran. Kalb/kalbat means bitch, or counterfeit money right? That’s a good one! And you use the Egyptian dialect apparently or did someone type that for you?

 

”Women are more respected in the religion of Islam, than you know.”

Did you say that with a straight face? When you were in Saudi Arabia for spring break or whatever I KNOW atleast once you were passed by a guy driving a pick up or flat bed truck with a few goats in the cab with him, and some ninja clad women clutching to the back outside. Literally, they are less than goats. Emphasis on marriage? THEY ARE FORCED MARRIAGES!!!! Women don’t have a choice. I don’t know how young they are married off in Saudi Arabia, but in Pakistan and Afghanistan this happens to girls as young as 9. Let me guess, you also know “literally dozens” of people from there who say that isn’t true. Convincing.

 

”that's why when women become muslim in America and cover themselves in modest dress they talk about how liberated”

You’re right, living in one of those black tents in the 130 degree desert is very “liberating.” And I want to ask you a question about this I would love for you to actually answer and not ignore – the majority of the women covered up like this are in middle eastern countries where it is mandatory, like Saudi Arabia, correct? So what does it say about Muslim men, if they see any skin they are forced to just rape them? Sort of like dogs? And even then they have higher levels of rape than the west. Its ok, you can ignore that question if you want, don’t think too hard. That’s probably just more of the vast media conspiracy to prove you wrong, they don’t really even wear hijabs

 

”stoning for adultery is part of Islam, Same with Judaism and Christianity”

No, that was during medieval times, when people were more primitive. They were also called “the dark ages”.

 

You seem to be constantly killing your argument with the examples you use. Since you seem to think there is a western media plot to discredit you, here is an Egyptian newspaper article about the prevalence of pedophilia in Egypt.

http://www.dailystaregypt.com/article.aspx?ArticleID=4729

You really seem to believe that everything which proves you wrong is a conspiracy against you, and you only vaguely say its a plot you won’t address any specific examples other than “I don’t like it so I don’t believe it”. You wrote off the examples of the high AIDS/HIV rate because one of the links was ‘daniel pipes’, yet it was a reprinted AP article. Amnesty international is really spreading lies to make you look like a jackass? So is the Saudi health minister who gave up the rates of AIDS also part of this conspiracy? And what about Egypt having THE HIGHEST AMOUNT OF HEP C, WHICH IS A STD, IN THE WORLD? That also must be false and the UN is part of the plot to discredit Egypt/muslims/you. You seem very brainwashed/bat shit crazy, and will reject anything because you spent an whole entire month in the kingdom, and know literally “dozens” of people who tell you otherwise. I’m glad my dad didn’t go through a bizarre mental breakdown and move my family into a third world dictatorship when I was a wee lad is all I can say.

[Stereotype V.0002]

"Not everyone who claims to be a muslim is actually a muslim."

The way you tell it, the only true Muslims are former Italian hoods from boston. The majority of Muslims in the west would view someone like dawood, and the 7h century fundamentalist regime he loves so much, as people who are not true Muslims and are really just bastardizing their faith. It seems like a lot of American converts to Islam gravitate towards the stereotypical ultra conservative, like the new Al Qaeda mouth piece or the American taliban. They are always the most vocal about what true Islam is.

[Stereotype V.0002]

"Yeah, I totally, beleive these liars more than the dozens of people I know who live there and said it's rare..

I was there over a month and I never heard of or saw anything of the sort."

You mean you went to Saudi Arabia and didn't check out the national pastime? And what exactly are they lying about...Saudi Arabia really doesn’t have executions? Or they only execute people for adultery/dope and no other crimes? ChopChop square is in the dead city, its called Deerah square, people get their heads taken off gladiator style and its always a crowd pleaser. People from all over go to check that shit out. More lies, right? Next time your there plan a trip and enjoy...I’ll stick to fenway but it seems right up your alley.

 

Thats it for me! Have fun in Egypt, I hope you don't get rolled up by their goon squad, have a good un!

[WORDISM45]

im talking about your attitude to non-muslim women!! try to justify that!!!

 

And it was actually the grand mufti of australia that made the comment i quoted so yeah hes the most prominent muslim figure over here.

 

The last time a publicised rape case was exactly as i described was earlier this year when 2 pakistani brothers were convicted of raping a 15 yr old and their father who is a lawyer tried to use the fact that they were muslims as an excuse for it (because they werent used to a society where a girl could walk around without a burqa on).

 

Another really big case happened one or two years ago which involved a gang of somehting like 20 muslims aged 16-25 serial raping a bunch of different random "white sluts" (as they and you both describe them) whom they kidnapped from the streets, trains etc and took them back to a park gang raped them repeatedly then hosed them down with a public hydrant. they were organised attacks co-ordinated city wide by mobile phone calls between the men g-ing eachother up to come and rape another "aussie slut"

 

i think you might have msised this one dawood i can see your busy defending yourself but id liek a reply

[Juan Fuentes]

It seems like a lot of American converts to Islam gravitate towards the stereotypical ultra conservative

 

culture and religion mix,happens a lot in islam,again A LOT.

thats why they want to show it off.

 

i have nothing against the arabic dressing styles though.or arabs.

[Stereotype V.0002]

culture and religion mix,happens a lot in islam,again A LOT.

thats why they want to show it off.

 

i have nothing against the arabic dressing styles though.or arabs.

 

That was a pretty stupid generalization on my part. With anything the people on the extremes are more vocal, although it seems like the kids in college who convert go towards the more strict versions. There is nothing wrong with anyone being proud of their culture, and I have no problem with people who choose to wear a burqa or whatever. I do have a problem with a country/society where everyone is forced to wear a burqa and other limits on personal freedoms.

[Dawood]

im talking about your attitude to non-muslim women!! try to justify that!!!

 

And it was actually the grand mufti of australia that made the comment i quoted so yeah hes the most prominent muslim figure over here.

 

The last time a publicised rape case was exactly as i described was earlier this year when 2 pakistani brothers were convicted of raping a 15 yr old and their father who is a lawyer tried to use the fact that they were muslims as an excuse for it (because they werent used to a society where a girl could walk around without a burqa on).

 

Another really big case happened one or two years ago which involved a gang of somehting like 20 muslims aged 16-25 serial raping a bunch of different random "white sluts" (as they and you both describe them) whom they kidnapped from the streets, trains etc and took them back to a park gang raped them repeatedly then hosed them down with a public hydrant. they were organised attacks co-ordinated city wide by mobile phone calls between the men g-ing eachother up to come and rape another "aussie slut"

 

 

You and I both know that these types of things can't be justified, even if someone claims the woman wasn't covered or whatever, that's just plain rediculous and obviously this guy was grabbing for whatever he could to save his sons. As for the women, yes, I have an attitude toward non muslim women. For a muslim man in a non muslim society with lewd, loose women all around dressing half naked, it's a bit distracting. As a practicing muslim I keep my contact with them minimal and it's a source of "fitnah" for muslim men. Fitnah being temptation, they tempt you too, but you can just stick and move, we don't roll like that. It's much easier to keep your low desires in check in a society where women are not so flamboyant. And for some reason people always feel as if women are forced to dress Islamically, well, in Egypt for example, there's no law that says women have to cover, but most of them do. Now,as for the attitude toward non muslim women that you referred to, let me clarify. There's a big difference between having animosity and transgressing limits. I might hate a person in my heart, but still not transgress against them. I don't walk around mean mugging women, I'm very respectful to women, muslim or non muslim.

But let's call a spade a spade, I didn't call them whores because they don't wear Islamic clothing. I called them whores because they sleep with every Thomas, Robert and Harold and then some. Some of them don't sleep around and are married so if the shoe doesn't fit, then they don't have to wear it, then do they?

I call a spade a spade. I don't know what the women are like in Australia, but in America...pfffffffft.......just go to myspace , come back and tell me they're not dirty.

 

*<-----that asterisk is my disclaimer that I don't mean all of them. sorry if you don't like the truth, though.

 

Oh, and btw, I never referred to the race of anyone (in response to your "white sluts" comment)

[WORDISM45]

 

Oh, and btw, I never referred to the race of anyone (in response to your "white sluts" comment)

 

yeha sorry my bad

 

 

im presuming your mother didn't convert to Islam with you so would you describe her as a whore/do you hate her in your heart?