My confusion on hip hop

maybe i dont have the same outlook on hip hop as the rest of the world.

as i know graffiti, MC'ing, Dj'ing, and Break Dancing all came from different sources. and i know they'll all branch out into different Cultures.

What confuses me, is how long are these things going to be considered hip hop?

Where is the line between "hip hop" turntablism and other forms of turntablism drawn?

where is the line of hip hop graffiti and other forms of graffiti drawn?

and so on and so forth.

Hip hop is an extremley difficult culture for me to understand, there are so many things people just dont like considering to be hip hop (are raves hip hop? i mean, theres turntablism, mc'ing and breakdancing going on at 'em, yet many of the

'true' hip hop kids dont hesitate to make fun of them)

if i made up a color scheme and a good way to present it, using a large wall as my median. would that be considered graffiti art?

what about if i used words in my piece? would that be considered graffiti art?

or just large median painting?

what is considered graffiti art?

i think i'll do that, go to a legal wall and just remake one of my computer designs on the wall, i'll see how many people do and dont consider it hip hop.

im still confused

everyone has their own take on this. some say none of it go in the same category and some say they do. ive always thought cuz ones before me always said these are the 4 elements of hiphop: MCing, DJing, graffiti, and breakdancing. i still think of it as one whole culture but others will kill me for saying that.

yea i'm confused too...

i mean...4 elements? what ever happened to

beat boxing? shouldn't that be 5?:crazy:

mc's battle. bboy's battle. dj's battle. graffers battle.

beat 'boxers' battle. where's the line that says beat boxing

isn't/shouldn't be an element?

and what about dress code?? wouldn't that

make it 6?? dress code should mos def be an element...

i've seen doods battle for dopest

'ice' ensemble....flyest 'wally's'...most bangin' towel accessorizing...:dazed: :crazy:

hip hop...what the fuckin' nizzlo is it?

BLING BLING!

No but seriously, Rave and club DJs are not turntablism. Turntablism is basically using the turntable as an instrument, Scratching - Invisibl skratch piklz, that is turntablism. Club Djs are Djs, they play and mix records.

Graffiti is so not hip hop, exspecially if you paint frieghts.

whatever dude. djs are djs are djs.

fuck everything and labels.

Just do your own thing and have fun with it man. Rap sucks anyways.

Now for my mindless chowder statement:

hahaha, most of rap currently sucks anyway. c'mon face it. Hip hop culture? pshhhhh, jesus its a bunch of bullcrap for overgrown teenagers and propagando to sell t shirts. haha, whatever.

Just do your own thing and do what you beleive in. simple as that.

I'm tired of hip hop threads already.

THE 6TH ELEMENT IS...POOP! shhhhhh! dont tell those guys!

i knew a guy that was convinced skateboarding was an element of hiphop. we got into a heated debate about it. it became this big ordeal of right and wrong and hiphop past present and future and he got so upset that he denounced hiphop altogether. then i fucked him. :crazy:

If you look at history graffiti has always been grouped with hip hop.This pisses some people off.The way I see it is the hip hop culture of long ago(80searly90s)has always recognized graffiti as art and privided a venue for that talent to be expressed.Look at Style Wars,Wild Style,Beat streat,hell even Breakin.Every time hip hop has been documented and they mention the 4 elements graff is mentioned.but now a days graffwriters are moving away because the hip hop culture is soo corrupt due mostly to shitty rap music about gun toting thugs,and a lot of writers getting used and not being compensated. Now a days every idiot and his brother wears a graffiti t-shirt.This was never the intent for hip hop.From back in the Zulu Nation days the whole point was for kids to do their talent and express them selves nonviolently,if they had a disagreement to handle it nonviolently.But the hip hop culture has been so abused and corrupted I can not even begin to go int it.Turntableism is a skill and it is hard to do! Djing ang turntableism are different.Beatboxing is considered an element as well as crate digging(looking for good records).Look at other countrys like Germany,their hip hop scene is bumpin.Look at Canada they have one of the dopest hip hop scenes right now in my opinion.

The important thing is not to get caught up in the politics and have fun!!Make this what you want it to be for you!

Originally posted by graf-freely!

This pisses some people off.the way I see it is the hip hop culture of long ago(80searly90s)has always recognized graffiti as art and privide a venue for that talent to be expressed.

the hiphop culture of "long ago" i think goes back even a decade furthur than that. but i dont want to start one of those who founded the movement discussions because those never go anywhere.

well i know graffiti goes back further than that.(caveman days)

while we are on the subject ....I was reading the source like a month ago and they had an interveiw in ther with Lady Pink. and she said graffiti has nothing to do with hip hop that its always been its own culture.If she feels this way why would she agree to be in a movie like Wild Stlyle where it shows graffiti as "part of the culture"? jus wondering?

The 4 elements of SHIP HOP:

Jump

Swim

Tread

Drown

It's all a money making scheme. Wear this and buy this and listen to this and you'll belong. It plays on the insecurities of young people. Hip hop just happens to be the selling angle most attached with graffiti.

hip hop is like the equivalent to santa. there is no such no thing. there might have been an attempt to make it a movement but its clearly not a movement. there is no structure there is not founding philosophy. its just a term for people to use and feel down. i'm hip hop yo.

graffiti is graffiti djing is djing. they have little to do with hip hop in my opinion.

As far as raves and that culture...can you really think of a dumber scene? Spend $50 to get into this party, and $30 on this pill so you can actually tolerate the retarded music. Lets not forget that $20 glowinthedark pacifier and those $100 hot pink pleather bellbottoms and the $75 matching faux-fur vest. Maybe in the winter we can blow our trust fund on a trip to Ibiza so we can stay fucked up for 3 months straight. Hell yeah. Now that's something we can all be proud of. A new low in human civilization.

Originally posted by serum

there is not founding philosophy.

good point

“THE REFINITIONS”

and before someone posts this i'll do it for them. i feel its only on paper and a far cry from what it is now. punk has more structure then hip hop. i'm sorry i forgot where i stole this from. its from a dj site somewhere out there.

FOR THE PURPOSE OF UNITING AND ESTABLISHING OUR COMMON IDENTITY AND FULFILLING THE VISION OF KOOL DJ HERC, AFRIKA BAMBAATAA, GRANDMASTER FLASH AND OTHERS, HIPHOP KULTURE UNDER DIVINE GUIDANCE AND INSPIRATION, MANIFESTS THE "REFINITIONS". ESTABLISHING AND EXPRESSING HIPHOP KULTURE'S UNITY, THE "REFINITIONS" MANIFEST THE EVIDENCE OF OUR EXISTENCE.

THERE IS NO OTHER HIPHOP, SAVE THE "REFINITIONS".

R-10 BREAKIN: (The study of Martial Arts). Commonly called “Breakdancing,” it's origins lay in the James Brown dance moves of the early seventies. It now includes up-rocking, pop-locking, jailhouse or slap boxin’, Double Dutch, Electric Boogie, and Capoiera martial arts.

1 Breakin moves are commonly used in aerobics and other exercises that refine the body. Its practitioners are called “B-Boys,” “B-Girls,” and “Breakers.” It is also commonly referred to as “freestyle street dancing.” Break-dancing -- acrobatic style of street dancing. Popularized by the Rock Steady Crew, The New York City Breakers, and others.

R-11 EMCEEIN: (The study of Divine Speech). Commonly referred to as “Rappin” or “Rap.” The Emcee is a mass controller who directs and moves the crowd by rhythmically rhyming in spoken word.

1 The word “Emcee” comes from the abbreviated form of “Master of Ceremonies” (M.C.). In its traditional sense to “Emcee” (M.C.) meant to host an event.

2 Early Hiphoppas transformed the traditional character of the M.C. to include crowd participation routines. Today, the Emcee seeks to be a master of the spoken word, not just the best Rapper.

3 Emcees also deliver poetry readings, lectures and other forms of public instructions. Most Emcees pride themselves on the ability to tell a good story. Its practitioners are known as “Emcees” or “Rappers.”. Popularized by Grandmaster Caz (Cold Crush Four), Cowboy. Melle Mel (Furious Five) and others.

R-12 GRAFFITI ART: (The study of Color, Light and Handwriting). Commonly called “Aerosol Art,” “Life Art,” “Pieces,” “Burners,” and “Urban Murals.” Other forms of this art include “Bombin” and “Taggin.”

1 Today, Graffiti artists seek to be masters of handwriting, not just great artists. Graffiti artists pride themselves on the ability to write, and/or draw, a good story. Its practitioners are known as “writers” and “Graffitist.” Graffiti -- writing or drawing that is scribbled, scratched, or sprayed on a surface. Popularized by Phase Two, Seen, Cope2, TAT's cru and others.

R-13 DEEJAYIN: (The study of Music production and Radio Broadcasting). Commonly refers to the actions of a disc jockey. Hiphop’s disc jockey doesn’t just play vinyl records, tapes, and compact discs. He or she interacts artistically with the performance of a recorded song by “Cuttin,” “Mixin,” and “Scratchin” the song in all of its recorded formats. Its practitioners are known as “Turntablists” “Deejays,” “Grandmasters,” “Mixologists,” “Mixmasters,” “Jammasters,” “Funkmasters” and “Blastmasters.” Disc Jockey -- presenter of recorded pop music. Popularized by Grandmaster Flash, Afrika Bambaataa, Jam Master Jay, Kid Capri, Red Alert, Marley Marl, the Awesome Two and others.

R-14 BEATBOXIN: (The study of Mind and Body Health). Commonly refers to the act of creating rhythmic sounds with various parts of the body, particularly the throat, mouth, and hands.

1 Philosophically, Beatboxin is about seeing the body as an instrument. Earlier versions of this expression included “Handbone” or “Hambone.” It is the act of imitating early electronic drum machines.

2 These machines were some of the original beat boxes and imitating them was called “Beatboxin.” Its practitioners are known as “Human Beatboxes” or “Human Orchestras.” Popularized by Doug-E Fresh, DMX (Just-Ice), Biz Markie, Emanon.

R-15 STREET FASHION: (The study of Human Behavior). Commonly refers to the clothing trends of the inner-city. However, Street Fashion deals with all trends and styles of Hiphop Kulture, what’s in and what’s out regardless of the expression.

1 Self-expression through Street Fashion is an important way to present Hiphop’s identity and ideology to society. Street Fashion also represents the presentation of all Hiphop kultural codes, forms and customs. Its practitioners are known as “Hiphoppas,” “models” and “role models.” Popularized by Dapper Dan, Ron 125th, Karl Kani and others.

R-16 STREET LANGUAGE: (The study of Communication). Commonly referred to as “Black English,” “Urban Slang,” and “Ebonics.” It is Hiphop’s language and linguistic codes, the verbal communication of the “streets.”

1 Advanced Street Language includes the correct pronunciation of ones native and national language as it pertains to life in the inner-city. Its practitioners are known as “Hiphoppas.” Popularized by Hiphoppas.

R-17 STREET KNOWLEDGE: (The study of Universal Law). Commonly refers to the basic common sense and accumulated wisdom of inner-city families. It consists of techniques, phrases, codes and terms used to survive and the ability to reason soundly with or without the ideas or validation of the mainstream. Its practitioners are known as “Sister,” “Brother,” “Goddess,” “God,” “Earth,” “Mother,” “Father,” “Teacha,” “Queen,” “King,” “Princess,” “Prince,” “Lord,” and “Divine.” Streetwise -- knowing how to survive modern urban life. Popularized by Chuck D (Public Enemy), KRS-ONE, Rakim Allah, Poor Righteous Teachas and others.

R-18 STREET ENTREPRENEURIALISM: (The study of Trade and Business Management). Commonly referred to as “having game,” “The Natural Salesman,” “the smooth diplomat who creates business opportunity.” It is the readiness to engage in the creation of a business venture that brings about grassroots business practices. Many of Hiphop’s kultural apprenticeships are included here as well. Its practitioners are known as “Hustlers,” and “Self Starters.” Entrepreneur -- person who undertakes a commercial venture. Popularized by Russell Simmons, Sean "Puffy" Combs, Luther Campbell and others.

R-19 HIPHOP: In its true essence, Hiphop cannot be (and should not be) interpreted or described fully in words. It is a feeling. An awareness.

1 Intellectually, it is an alternative behavior that enables one to transform subjects and objects in an attempt to describe and/or change the character and desires of ones being.

2 Hiphop is a unique inner-city awareness that enhances ones ability to self-create. It is a “sight.”

3 In the past Hiphop was spelled “hip-hop.” True Hiphoppas are advised to spell Hiphop with a capital “H,” as it is the name of our collective consciousness and our kulture.

4 Hiphop, spelled “hip-hop,” means (hip) trendy, (hop) jump or dance. We are not just a “trendy dance” however, those that spell Hiphop like this (hip-hop) usually approaches Hiphop like a trendy dance or music.

5 In addition, Hiphop’s kultural unity is established by spelling Hiphop as one word, “Hiphop,” unless the term “Hiphop” is being displayed as art or in public advertisement.

6 Those that spell Hiphop, “hip-hop” are undermining Hiphop’s kultural unity and demeaning the importance of what Hiphop really is.

7 Know this. Hiphop spelled “Hiphop,” is not only the code for writers that participate in Hiphop’s preservation, generally it is a matter of respect!

R-20 HIPHOP KULTURE: Hiphop Kulture is Hiphop’s character. Hiphop is the consciousness, Hiphop Kulture is the collective character of the Hiphop consciousness. It is the consciousness in action.

1 There is Hiphop, Hiphop’s kulture and Hiphop’s elements. For the sake of convenient conversation, Hiphoppas are allowed to use the term “Hiphop Kulture.” But in reality, it is Hiphop’s kulture that is called “Hiphop Kulture.” True Hiphoppas spell culture with a “K” signifying the "self-aware" Hiphop Kulture.

2 Hiphop Kulture spelled with a “c” (culture) represents those that regard Hiphop as a product (the “hip-hop” culture).

3 Hiphop Kulture spelled with a “K” also represents Hiphop after the year 2000. Hip-Hop culture spelled with a “c” represents “hip-hop” culture before the year 2000.

R-21 HIPHOP ELEMENT: A Hiphop element is one of the contributing factors that express Hiphop’s kulture. It is an aspect of Hiphop’s kulture.

1 By itself it is not the totality of the kulture, it is a representation or an introduction to Hiphop’s kulture. It is a skill that reflects the character of Hiphop’s kulture.

2 An “element” is usually created when the Hiphop “sight” is applied to a subject or object. Presently Hiphop’s elements are: Breakin, Emceein, Graffiti art, Deejayin, Beatboxin, Street Language, Street Knowledge, Street Fashion, Street Entrepreneurialism.

a hiphoppa eh?:D

Henceforth I wish to be referred to as a "graffitist".

Originally posted by HAL

It's all a money making scheme. Wear this and buy this and listen to this and you'll belong. It plays on the insecurities of young people. Hip hop just happens to be the selling angle most attached with graffiti.

finally someone that knows (on 12oz)

Originally posted by metallix

 

finally someone that knows (on 12oz)

Jesus, someone missed my input. Oh well,

and i as a graffitician

hmm..hip-hop culture for along time now has supported graf as part of its whole...sure graffiti,belongs to many other musics or people,but its also is apart of hip-hop...thats how i learned about it,and so did alot of people...i think its a wonderful thing..

so what we have here is a matter of perception ..i see it as being hip hop..if you dont you just looking at it from a different angle than me...

and thats cool with me:)