Vacationland

[bigdork]

Both of these crews have more up in this city than anyone right now... they're STILL not painting enough?

 

Having alot up aint shit in this city.. takes a week or so of walking around.. How about staying up consistentley and on fr8s and in different cities for 10 or more years, talk to me then. Thats what these dudes need to put in mind, not beef. I just see alot of crap, and half assed fills.. I think some of em got alot of talent and love that they are bombing, but your gonna start battling, Really? 95% of em need a handstyle first.. sorry for the real talk..

[nightslicer!]

it's true dork! you can crush this city with your eyes closed.

[BORN+DEAD]

Both of these crews have more up in this city than anyone right now... they're STILL not painting enough?

 

Its not about more, its about more shit that rocks. beef in this city is for the toys. Real crews focus on quality crushing.

[Guest pb4life]

i agree with you 100% BD, but im still backin' ESKO every step of the way.

[Lt Jim Dangle]

Having alot up aint shit in this city.. takes a week or so of walking around.. How about staying up consistentley and on fr8s and in different cities for 10 or more years, talk to me then. Thats what these dudes need to put in mind, not beef. I just see alot of crap, and half assed fills.. I think some of em got alot of talent and love that they are bombing, but your gonna start battling, Really? 95% of em need a handstyle first.. sorry for the real talk..

 

i gotcha.. just seems like a lot of the OG's feel like they deserve all the respect in the world without giving it out at all. i know some of these dudes are up on fr8's but you gotta know it takes time to see that shit rolling through.. not like u can go out and catch fr8's one night and it shows up the next day on 12oz.. but I do agree, thats where the work needs to be put in. But no one can claim hex isn't running soem shit in portland.. I also agree with the mobbin other cities deal.. if you're writing and ur not broke, ur not working hard enough.

[Lt Jim Dangle]

for the record, i do respect new englands writing history... i understand what the first guys went through and that no one around here would have anything to look up to if it wasnt for the OG's..

[bigdork]

Its not about more, its about more shit that rocks. beef in this city is for the toys. Real crews focus on quality crushing.

 

Exactly! Quality crushing, placement, longevity, and a good attitude and being able to go to any city and other writers be like "that dudes got a good hand, or throw" who is he? "Oh hes from Portland, Maine".. example #1-JURNE!

[Lewis and Clark]

18 viewing.. really.. c'mon.

pretty good time to say, there isnt much quality out there right now and people arent bombing enough either! so do both, more... and faster!

[bigdork]

I give mad respect to Cevs, Turdl, Esko, Oniks, Vane, Koi..

and think writers like raket, main, and herby are on the right track...

 

The point that it takes years is the whole fucking idea! This aint a hobby its a lifestyle, you cant bomb for less than a year a be like "yo, I got madd ups" I think HEX crew is just jumping the gun a bit and seem a little fame hungry, they are gonna regret the shit out of their handstyles because they still are really bad! Not that I dont give them respect for being out their, but cmon guys lets work on some things at home first..and not piss on the whole city! My opinion is my opinion and, im not saying im right, just got a bit of experience and my own mistakes to back it up.

[BORN+DEAD]

Having a good attitude is everything for a crew. If a crew begins with a bad attitude, they will get a bad rep and a bad rep will only work against them when they try and branch out to other states and city's. Do you think YME and SFL are where they are now because they were starting beefs and wars with every other writer or crews? YME and SFL worked hard and put in a lot of quality work to network across the country and back again to were it all started. The point here that I am trying to make is a toy is not someone without mastered skills, What really make a toy is a bad attitude and no skill to go with it. Now I'm not calling anyone here a toy, I'm just trying to share some insight from an OG.

[nightslicer!]

what do you do... something that looks nicer are something thats more fun to do?

[Lt Jim Dangle]

I give mad respect to Cevs, Turdl, Esko, Oniks, Vane, Koi..

and think writers like raket, main, and herby are on the right track...

 

The point that it takes years is the whole fucking idea! This aint a hobby its a lifestyle, you cant bomb for less than a year a be like "yo, I got madd ups" I think HEX crew is just jumping the gun a bit and seem a little fame hungry, they are gonna regret the shit out of their handstyles because they still are really bad! Not that I dont give them respect for being out their, but cmon guys lets work on some things at home first..and not piss on the whole city! My opinion is my opinion and, im not saying im right, just got a bit of experience and my own mistakes to back it up.

I feel ya, I'm glad this didn't blow up over nothing. I get what you're saying completely. Just got back from the bay and I couldn't talk to a writer that wasn't up on jurnes shit.. thats 3,000 miles of dedication and lifestyle coming from east bumfuck USA. Glad you explained ur viewpoint a bit more.

[Lt Jim Dangle]

Having a good attitude is everything for a crew. If a crew begins with a bad attitude, they will get a bad rep and a bad rep will only work against them when they try and branch out to other states and city's. Do you think YME and SFL are where they are now because they were starting beefs and wars with every other writer or crews? YME and SFL worked hard and put in a lot of quality work to network across the country and back again to were it all started. The point here that I am trying to make is a toy is not someone without mastered skills, What really make a toy is a bad attitude and no skill to go with it. Now I'm not calling anyone here a toy, I'm just trying to share some insight from an OG.

I guess the real blunt and original point I was trying to make was.. if u threw a roof up, went out bombing that night and noticed ur roof had gotten gone over.. would u not reclaim your spot? I legitimately understand having a good attitude, if you're dick and no one in the city likes ur crew have fun being dissed all day everyday.. but theres a certain sense of protecting a spot once u've thrown shit up i think.

[Major Figure]

I'll give credit for actually going out and getting around and getting up. So far i haven't seen too many cutty spots that make me say "oh damn". I'd like to see more solid fills, better color selections, and less hollows. I've never been one to be too anal on spot selection, but i would like to see more than a one letter fillin in an alley way. Personally i think beef is good for work ethic and nothing more. It's not hard to take over a city this size with only 5 people trying to. And it damn sure isn't hard to be (literally) everywhere. And as far as claiming spots after you've painted them, there arent too many spots thatalready havent been done inthis city.

[bigdork]

And for the record.. I dont really think any crews (maybe a few no name toys) have shitty attitudes in Portland right now, which is real refreshing and a change from the past. I think we are at a good place overall, because our history has really started to solidify and kids under 25 are really realizing who paved the way before them. Took alot of struggle for this to happen believe me! ask Rich? The internet has helped in this way.. but all im saying is chill a little.. this aint a sprint its a marathon.. and dont make it hot for others who want to catch some tags here and their, cause you want to do 30 1 letter throws downtown, when really a simple dead letter or some dope hands in a nice spot or a roof would have the same effect. Cool brosefs.. im done!

[Blee]

i agree with you 100% BD, but im still backin' ESKO every step of the way.

 

lol. Still dickriding Esko. ;)

[BORN+DEAD]

I guess the real blunt and original point I was trying to make was.. if u threw a roof up, went out bombing that night and noticed ur roof had gotten gone over.. would u not reclaim your spot? I legitimately understand having a good attitude, if you're dick and no one in the city likes ur crew have fun being dissed all day everyday.. but theres a certain sense of protecting a spot once u've thrown shit up i think.

 

well when i was coming up there was an unspoken kind of law, that was (if your going to go over someone make sure it is way better than what was there.) for an example I have been in the seen for a long time and if I hit something and lets say BERN wanted to go over it. that would be fine in my eyes as BERN is an older king and I would respect that. but if some 12 year old kid got some spray paint out of his momy's basement and tag over my spot, i would reclaim my spot. Now the kicker in all this going over business is: the toy that went over your shit in the first place is just trying to get notice himself. You may be better off just finding new spots and pushing your self to limits where that toy will not dis your shit anymore. You have a choice to make as a writer, are you going to battle every toy out there or are you going to pull inwards and let your writing on the walls do all the talking for you?

[Lt Jim Dangle]

word.. thats a really good outlook on it.. I can definitely see that stripping a lot of the bullshit drama out of the lifestyle. just let it run till it's done..

[bigdork]

lol. Still dickriding Esko. ;)

 

Shut the fuck up! Its graffiti you retard.. I dickride (or respect) about 200 writers before me and during me coming up.. Its what makes graff so legit and a trade not some faggy art that you do whatever you want. I hate when people saythat shit more than anything.. you like another writer, thats positive! its helps cultivate style..

 

Dream RIP- I dickride

Bern- I dickride

Gkae- I dickride

Twist, Tie RIP, Renos, Spie, Skeme, Mber, Puzl, Tempt, JA, Iksoe, Mes, Aves, Cayper, Seen, Min,Blade,Cav,Mone,Wolf,Smith/SaneRIP, Zephyr,Nace, Kick, Sk8 RIP, Risk, Bles, Bates... etc, etc..

[told]

I've been seeing mention of the need for a good handstyle on this thread for a long time, and it always bugs me a bit. I agree wholeheartedly that handstyles are the foundation and a necessity in the game, no question. HOWEVER, I can't think of a single writer before Jurne came around that has a handstyle that I can even look at and enjoy. I think the newer kids have way more style in their hands then some of the older guys (not all, but as a general rule). And it seems to be the older guys calling out the lack of handstyles in today's game.

 

I always try to stay away from mentioning individuals, but I will say that I can't think of a single handstyle from the YME/SFL crew that I like looking at. Now, that's a personal opinion, and I respect those crews for the other stuff they have done well (and for quite a while), and I am not trying to knock them in the slightest. But come on, are you saying that Ich has a dope handstyle? Alke? Sept? Learn? Pulease. These guys have earned that place in the game, but it wasn't because of their handstyles by any means.

 

I will be the first to say that my handstyles need plenty of work, but that's because when I was coming up (pre-internet) I was influenced by what I saw in person. Some of which were YME/SFL freights. and the locals that I emulated (not in Maine) were the types to do a dope production, and then kind of print or block-letter write their names next to the piece very legibly. That's what I copied when I was starting out, and never bothered with the flares and loopy shit.

 

 

I am not trying to say, in any way, that whoever is saying that kids need handstyles is wrong. I think that is absolutely accurate. But if you're saying that the older school guys did it the right way, I don't know if that's evident in the handstyles that I've seen. Just my $.02

 

Edit: Rich has some good handstyle (not every time) and was around before Jurne. Bern too. And Ember. And Lerk.

[balsamic vinegarette]

hate to be the downer,

[/b]BUT IF YOU AINT GOT A TAG, YOU STILL AINT SHIT[/b]...

 

muhfuggas need to learn the goddamn basics, doin "mad crazy spots yo" and cant even write their name yet... sheeeeeittttt, i aint knockin anybody's hustle, do you, have fun and i dont give a shit, i only care about crew, family and self, but on the real

 

and i dont think most of you really realize the jewels bigdork is dropping on you (for free at that!)...

"it is not a race, it's a marathon"

just think about that shit for a second, then think about your favorite writer(s), if you have any knowledge of the culture you would know that this shit is beyond truth...

[balsamic vinegarette]

Learn hands are fire, period.

Clean, legible and stylish.

[bigdork]

If you knew ICH and asked him about his hand he'd be the first to say its shaky at best..

Alke has a legit gutter style hand

Sept is a bit unorthodox and it might not be your thing, but not toy and not what ive stated is a toy hand at all.

Learn- Dont know where you get that? yeah, its no Vault, Renos, or Twist hand but it has influenced many... including Jurne who got his word from Learn and his orginal handstyles.. and learns hand hold its weight in any city.. especially in the last few years. Ill post examples of all... if you see what standard of handstyles im refrencing as toy and need work, youd understand more... Im not saying everbody has to be JA or Amaze but some basic penmanship and historical retrospect is important.

[told]

Oh no, definitely wouldn't characterize anything from those guys as toyish, but also nothing to be emulated. Like I said, it's my opinion so take it or leave it.

I personally don't care for 85% of the stuff that Ich does, but I'll be the first to say that the man has created a brand and does his thing.

And like I said, not saying that Learn and the others haven't earned their spot or the respect, strictly just speaking about the handstyles. Giving a name to someone doesn't mean your handstyle is dope. Learn's hand is not ugly, but I would say it's basic. Sure, sometimes the "R" faces the wrong way, which could count for style points, but mostly it's just a printed word.

But to clarify, I am not even trying to remotely insinuate that the handstyles are awful or ugly, but I am saying that they are not at a level where they should be treated as the benchmark.

If I can indulge in a metaphor, if they were politicians running for office, I don't think they would need to be worried about their handstyles being used as examples to defame their character. But I also don't think they should be running on a platform touting their handstyle as a strong point.

But, like I said, I'm not trying to be a hater or take any of the well deserved respect away from these guys. I'm just trying to bring up an opposing viewpoint/opinion for thoughtful debate, something that I think is lacking at times in this thread. Or at the very least it seems to only go in one direction.

I'm leary of saying anything engative on the internet, because I don't like to hide behind a screenname (which is why my screenname isn't as cryptic as the rest of y'all), so I don't say anything I wouldn't be willing to have a discussion on in person

[told]

Actually, in thinking about it I can say that I have seen some dope Learn hands, usually a "Learnoner" marker tag or something. So I'm not talking about every single thing I see.

 

But, you admit that Learn hands have also progressed in style in the "last few years". What's that, 10, 13 years later? What I'm interested in is seeing handstyles from 15 years ago, since we're talking about handstyles being the very first thing you must master before you even attempt a piece. I don't think a handstyle from the past few years would support the argument

[bigdork]

I enjoy the discussion.. Learn grew up on the west coast and started "tag banging" in the early 90's when that was popular, so its got that influence plus a little Bay Area "funk".. I can see where youd say basic.. because that is his intention, nothing flashy and legible.. I dont really think they would be treated as anything but a decent to nice hand anywhere else, but here in Portland Maine, a benchmark yes because of the frame of refrence! To kids here and especially years ago, they where along with Bern, Rich, Case, etc.. something that emmulated larger city good hands.. and to be able to bring the most basic and important aspect to Maine, is a huge thing. Im still under the opinion that if you dont have a decent hand you shouldnt even be attempting a piece, writing legibly next to your piece is important, but did you start to do that to cover up that you never really cultivated a legit signature tag? that you actually bombed with.. because writing legible next to your piece should be second nature, along with the essence and soul of graffiti the handstyle!

[told]

Oh, and I'm also viewing this on my work computer, and none of the pictures show up since they'reblocked by my company. So I do not have a frame of reference for what you're referring to as toy tags that have been popping up lately. I am not trying to say any toy shit is better than the older guys stuff, or anything like that. But I'd take a Turdle tag over any of the older guys. I'm also really bored because it's a slow day at work. I rarely post on here at all.

And like I said, I'm only pointing it out because it seems like every day someone says "you should learn a dope handstyle first, like the older generation did" and I just don't see it. Solid and passable, yes. But nothing to throw around as a defining characteristic

[bigdork]

Ask Turdl who his biggest influence handstyle is? remember Loner tags? A learn tag circa 98 to the tee.. Besides that, yes Learn tags have changed, fallen into fads (one flows) and progressed. But do you know without a doubt thats is his signature? no matter what year? Yes! and can they hold weight, for the last 14 years, I think so.. maybe not the illest or flashiest.. but a decent tag that you can take or leave but what tag really isnt despite maybe a handful of writers.. I can post examples dating back to maybe 96.. its a great discussion by the way.

[told]

Ha. That's a good point, actually. I see more of a Boston influence in Turdl tags, but could definitely see the Learn influence in the Loner tags.

And I will also say that Learn probably has one of the more solid hands in those crews, and I thought twice about even throwing his name in there, but I decided to include him. So an argument can definitely be made that I'm way off base. BUT, as a crew(s), I think SFL/YME strongest points are: Volume and Longevity. I don't think they would make anyones list of best handstyles, if the list wasn't limited to Maine. It just doesn't seem like a strong enough platform to be calling other's out on it, ya know?

Say kid's don't paint as much as YME has. No one can argue with that.

Say kid's haven't done it as long. No one can argue with that.

Say kid's don't have a style you can recognize from a distance. No one can argue with that either.

I think the handstyle argument, while valid, is the one of the weaker arguments that YME could make, without coming close to a pot calling the kettle black situation.

[Lt Jim Dangle]

i personally have always liked ICH's handstyles.. they directly resemble the shit he's piecing. I think handstyles are something you need to add when it will add to your piece, if not leave it be.. no sense in putting up some wild handstyle next to a dead letter or anything. 3 examples that always come to mind from ICH:

Shit just falls right into place under the skull.. nice little personal touch on the edgey tall letters.. but not WAY different than the call outs..

 

Again, just basic, but sticks out because its barely different..

 

This one really just reminds me he's a piecer at heart.. always lookin for the 3D

 

all of these rolling at the same spot, but u can distinctively tell it was an artist that understood his style..