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did anyone see thomas friedman report about 9/11 on discovery lasy nite??

Discussion in 'Channel Zero' started by mental invalid, Mar 27, 2003.

  1. mental invalid

    mental invalid Dirty Dozen Crew

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    did anyone see thomas friedman report about 9/11 on discovery lasy nite??

    Discussion started by mental invalid - Mar 27, 2003

    ive been meaning to start a thread about this guy, i think he is just brilliant and does a wonderful job of conveying so much information and emotion into his pieces....i look forward to his op eds every week....he writes for the New York Times.....

    anyways i think discovery is doing an encore of the show, next tuesday, check for local listings....he goes all over the mideast and to indonesia and actually sits down with people of all types, asks good questions, but more importantly just listens....its really quite fascinating....and i think important to hear....unfortunately im sure the one who really should be watching, those of blinded rage and ignorance wont be watching or listening, but maybe you can give them the gist....i highly suggest that the few of you im thinking of make an attempt to check it out....let me know what ya think....

    here just one example of his writing, not for the short attention span


    Repairing the World
    By THOMAS L. FRIEDMAN


    Some days, you pick up the newspaper and you don't know whether to laugh or cry. Let's see, the prime minister of Serbia just got shot, and if that doesn't seem like a bad omen then you missed the class on World War I. Our strongest ally for war in Iraq is Bulgaria — a country I've always had a soft spot for, because it protected its Jews during World War II, but a country that's been on the losing side of every war in the last 100 years. Congress is renaming French fries "freedom fries." George Bush has managed to lose a global popularity contest to Saddam Hussein, and he's looking to build diplomatic support in Europe by flying to the Azores, a remote archipelago in the Atlantic, to persuade the persuaded leaders of Britain and Spain to stand firm with him. I guess the North Pole wasn't available. I've been to the Azores. It was with Secretary of State James Baker on, as I recall, one of his seven trips around the world to build support for Gulf War I. Mr. Baker used the Azores to refuel.

    Having said all that, I am glad Mr. Bush is meeting with Tony Blair. In fact, I wish he would turn over leadership on the whole Iraq crisis to him. Mr. Blair has an international vision that Mr. Bush sorely needs. "President Bush should be in charge of marshaling the power for this war," says the Middle East expert Stephen P. Cohen, "and Tony Blair should be in charge of the vision for which that power should be applied."

    Why? What does Tony Blair get that George Bush doesn't? The only way I can explain it is by a concept from the Kabbalah called "tikkun olam." It means, "to repair the world." If you listened to Tony Blair's speeches in recent weeks they contain something so strikingly absent from Mr. Bush's. Tony Blair constantly puts the struggle for a better Iraq within a broader context of moral concerns. Tony Blair always leaves you with the impression that for him the Iraq war is just one hammer and one nail in an effort to do tikkun olam, to repair the world.

    Did you see Mr. Blair's recent speech about the environment? He called for a new "international consensus to protect our environment and combat the devastating impacts of climate change." "Kyoto is not radical enough," he said. "Ultimately this is about our world as a global community. . . . What we lack at present is a common agenda that is broad and just. . . . That is the real task of statesmanship today."

    Did you hear Mr. Blair talk Friday about the Middle East conflict? "We are right to focus on Saddam Hussein and his weapons of mass destruction," he said, "but we must put equal focus on the plight of the people whose lives are being devastated by lack of progress in the peace process. Israeli civilians and Palestinians."

    Contrast that with Mr. Bush. His White House declaration about resuming the peace process was delivered with all the enthusiasm of someone about to have his teeth drilled. On the environment, the president has never appreciated how damaging it was for him to scrap the Kyoto treaty, which was unimplementable, without offering an alternative. Nothing has hurt America's image more than the impression Mr. Bush has left that when it comes to terrorism — our war — there must be a universal crusade, but on the environment — the universal concern of others — we'll do whatever we want.

    Yes, some people and nations are just jealous of America's power and that's why they oppose us on Iraq. But there is something more to the opposition. I deeply identify with the president's vision of ending Saddam Hussein's tyranny and building a more decent, progressive Iraq. If done right, it could be so important to the future of the Arab-Muslim world, which is why I won't give up on this war. But can this Bush team be counted on to do it right? Mr. Bush's greatest weakness is that too many people, at home and abroad, smell that he's not really interested in repairing the world. Everything is about the war on terrorism.

    Lord knows, I don't diminish the threats we face, but for 18 months all we've been doing is exporting our fears to the world. Virtually all of Mr. Bush's speeches are about how we're going to protect ourselves and whom we're going to hit next. America as a beacon of optimism — America as the world's chief carpenter, not just cop — is gone. We need a little less John Wayne and a little more J.F.K. Once we get this Iraq crisis behind us, we need to get back to exporting our hopes, not just our fears.
     
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  2. Poop Man Bob

    Poop Man Bob Dirty Dozen Crew

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    Poop Man Bob - Replied Mar 27, 2003

    Yeah. That sums up a lot of it.

    I didn't watch the show, but now I will.


    You'll find this article interesting, roe:

    http://www.time.com/time/nation/article/0,...,437267,00.html

     
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  3. mental invalid

    mental invalid Dirty Dozen Crew

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    mental invalid - Replied Mar 27, 2003

    nothing like NOT putting your money where your mouth is....


    jesus christ, its just dumbfounding.......


    you should check that show out bob....id like to know what ya think
     
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  4. mental invalid

    mental invalid Dirty Dozen Crew

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    mental invalid - Replied Mar 27, 2003

    gotta bump
     
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  5. Ferris Bueller

    Ferris Bueller 12oz Elite Member

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    Ferris Bueller - Replied Mar 27, 2003

    good article...one of the few being posted on the boards that I've read in it's entirety..
     
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  6. imported_grim540

    imported_grim540 12oz Member

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    imported_grim540 - Replied Mar 27, 2003

    ha ha

    Tony Blair could be the Godfather

    Bush could be the hit man
     
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  7. mental invalid

    mental invalid Dirty Dozen Crew

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    mental invalid - Replied Mar 27, 2003

    yeah i find his stuff to be on point and not to wordsy or long winded...if you want more ferris you can check some out at the new york times online....

    heres one for the road


    The Western Front

    There are three fronts in this Iraq war: one in Iraq, one between America and its Western allies, and one between America and the Arab world. They are all being affected by this unilateral exercise of U.S. power. For now, I've embedded myself on the Western front, where, I can report, all is quiet. France is shocked and awed.


    No, there is no massive retreat here from the position staked out by the French government and public opinion against the war in Iraq. But the angry chasm this has opened between Paris and both London and Washington has shocked many people here and prompted some to ask whether France went too far. The title of the latest cover story in the French newsmagazine Le Point said it all: "Have They Gone Overboard?" The "they" are President Jacques Chirac and his foreign minister, Dominique de Villepin.

    Messrs. Chirac and de Villepin continue to insist that theirs was a principled opposition that will be vindicated. But some voices within the French foreign policy elite and the business community — which depends heavily on the U.S. for trade and investment — are now saying that Messrs. Chirac and de Villepin did indeed go too far. The term you hear most often is "intoxicated." These two became so intoxicated by how popular their anti-U.S., antiwar stand became across Europe, and in the whole world, that they went from legitimately demanding U.N. endorsement for any use of force in Iraq to blocking any U.N.-approved use of force — effectively making France Saddam's lawyer and protector.

    "People here are a little lost now," said Alain Frachon, the senior editor of Le Monde. "They like that their country stood up for a principle, but they don't like the rift with the U.S. They are embarrassed by it."

    French officials insist that their dispute with the U.S. was about means, not ends, but that is not true. It was about the huge disparity in power that has emerged between the U.S. and Europe since the end of the cold war, thanks to the vast infusion of technology and money into the U.S. military. That disparity was disguised for a decade by the softer touch of the Clinton team and by the cooperation over second-order issues, such as Kosovo and Bosnia.

    But 9/11 posed a first-order threat to America. That, combined with the unilateralist instincts of the Bush team, eventually led to America deploying its expanded power in Iraq, with full force, without asking anyone. Hence the current shock and awe in Europe. As Robert Kagan, whose book "Of Paradise and Power" details this power gap, noted: "We and the Europeans today are like a couple who woke up one day, looked at each other and said, `You're not the person I married!' "

    Yes, we have changed. "What Chirac failed to understand was that between the fall of the Berlin Wall and the fall of the twin towers, a new world was created," said Dominique Moisi, a French foreign policy expert. "In the past, the Americans needed us against the Soviets and would never go so far as to punish France for straying. But that changed after 9/11. You have been at war since then, and we have not, and we have not integrated that reality into our thinking [and what that means] in terms of America's willingness to go it alone. We have fewer common interests now and more divided emotions."

    Indeed, the French argue that only bad things will come from this war — more terrorism, a dangerous precedent for preventive war, civilian casualties. The Bush team argues that this war will be a game-changer — that it will spark reform throughout the Arab world and intimidate other tyrants who support terrorists.

    Can this war produce more of what the Bush team expects than the Europeans predict? Yes, it can. Can the breach between Europe and America be healed? Yes, it can. But both depend on one thing — how we rebuild Iraq. If we turn Iraq into a mess, the whole world will become even more terrified of unshackled U.S. power. If we rebuild Iraq into a decent, democratizing society — about which fair-minded people would say, "America, you did good" — the power gap between America and Europe will be manageable.

    For now, though, Europeans are too stunned by this massive exercise of unilateral U.S. power to think clearly what it's about. I can't quite put my finger on it, but people here seem to feel that a certain contract between America and the world has been broken. Which is why so much is riding, far beyond Iraq, on what the Bush team builds in Iraq. If we build it, they will come around — I hope.
     
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  8. mental invalid

    mental invalid Dirty Dozen Crew

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    mental invalid - Replied Apr 1, 2003

    bump...


    check the local listings, i think its on again tonite
     
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  9. BROWNer

    BROWNer Guest

    BROWNer - Replied Apr 1, 2003

    i'm sorry to be such a negative dink today, but what
    the hell happened to the 9/11 commission?
    talk about political irrelevance.
     
  10. BROWNer

    BROWNer Guest

    BROWNer - Replied Apr 1, 2003

    from another thread

    Undercutting the 9/11 Inquiry from: nytimes op-ed

    It's hard to believe that everything related to the Sept. 11 terrorist attacks will not get the most thorough public scrutiny possible. But the federal investigative committee so reluctantly supported by the White House now seems in danger of being undermined. As the first hearings open in Manhattan today, committee members are chagrined to be going hat in hand to Congress for adequate financing. White House assurances led them to believe needed funds would be included in the supplemental war budget sent to the Capitol last week. But the commission's $11 million request was not there.

    Reasonable people might wonder if the White House, having failed in its initial attempt to have Henry Kissinger steer the investigation, may be resorting to budgetary starvation as a tactic to hobble any politically fearless inquiry. The committee's mandate includes scrutiny of intelligence failures and eight other government areas.

    The White House vows that in coming budget initiatives there will be no shortchanging of the nation's duty to face the facts of the tragedy. As things now stand, $3 million budgeted as start-up funding could run out this summer. An estimated $14 million is needed for the task of finding out precisely how the attackers were able to pull off their plot in which nearly 3,000 people died. This seems a bargain given the importance of the mission. By comparison, the inquiry into the shuttle disaster's loss of seven lives may cost an estimated $40 million, and the inquiry into the Whitewater controversy ate up more than $30 million.

    The nation demands an unflinching 9/11 search. A forthright Congress could easily shake the money loose from the Capitol leadership. Everyone claims to have homeland security as a top priority, but anything less than a robust inquiry will amount to a fresh assault on domestic safety. Tim Roemer, a former congressman and a commission member now buttonholing old colleagues for the missing money, makes the case best: "Facing the facts won't kill us. Not getting them might."
     
  11. mental invalid

    mental invalid Dirty Dozen Crew

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    mental invalid - Replied Apr 1, 2003

    i thought the attempted appointment of kissinger was one of the most outrageous acts the bush admin had done to date......
     
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  12. Poop Man Bob

    Poop Man Bob Dirty Dozen Crew

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    Poop Man Bob - Replied Apr 1, 2003

    8 and 11 PM EST.

    I'm watching. You should too.
     
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  13. krie

    krie Guest

    krie - Replied Apr 1, 2003

    N O
     
  14. mental invalid

    mental invalid Dirty Dozen Crew

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    mental invalid - Replied Apr 2, 2003

    the dumbness of 12oz ceases to amaze me....



    bob-o did you check it out???
     
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