First Nations Politics

[Anon]

There is something very wrong the absolute arrogance of some people who commented previously. The sheer ignorance passed in comments written in the year 2005, you'd think I would be reading something written in the fucking 1800's.

What the fucks up with saying shit like "What you need to do is stop having such a victim mentality", these people had their lands taken, were ripped of their traditions, cultures and religion. They were disrespected and spat on culturally and the native languages were obliterated, and all the while they were forced to speak a foreign language of the people who had done this to them. Now how the fuck would you (Killing Butterflies, CACashRefund, Kabar) feel if this ever happened to you or your ancestors?

 

I'm sure you wouldn't be letting that go in a hurry. And what’s worse is the government let the natives live in tiny reservations with huge chunks of land that were previously tribal areas now being used as industry for booming national economy. Never ever forget that that is sacred land, that was sustenance for the people now being logged, cut up, mined etc, those are natural resources- rightly belonging to the first nations people but are now displaced into government hands, who I’m sure does not give a fuck about these people, where is the fucking justice?

I'm not apologizing if I offended any of those people who I’ve just mentioned, because you shouldn't say such ignorant shit in the first place. I’m an indigenous person of New Zealand and although I am not sure of the particulars of some of the things that went down in North America, essentially a lot of the things were the same. We had the same things happen, our land, culture, values, language were stripped off us. My father never taught me the language as his mother (my grandmother) used to get struck with a strap if they spoke a word of Maori at school, they were only allowed to speak English, apparently that was part of integration in society, and there you go Kabar that is assimilation for you.

 

We have a TV Station over here called Maori TV, we get some programmes from Canada, and I just recently saw a programme about the native people of Pakangikum in Alberta. It discussed the subject of suicide in the native youth population, this one elder who was like 93 years old, she had 6 of her grandchildren commit suicide, one other man profiled had 3 of his brothers and his best friend commit suicide, and at the end of the documentary 3 teenagers killed themselves, 2 who were just 13. Although the chief tried to help the community it was difficult due to the lack of funding, taken away from him because he apparently couldn’t support his community adequately?! They subsequently transferred it to a third party manager, some non-native accountant who lived in fucking Quebec and paid himself over $100,000 to manage tribal money. Now that is disgusting- I'm still at a loss as to how this actually helped the community, tell me how assimilation ever helps? Tell me how 3rd party management is helping the 13 year old addicted to sniffing petrol, or that grandmother who cried for her 6 grandchildren. The systems in place are not working; they are not relevant to these people who are conveniently tucked away in reservations forgotten by a majority, in which some (not all) seem to think because this physical and cultural genocide didn’t happen to them, then it shouldn’t really matter. Why worry about the formation of democracy in the Middle East, when you haven’t even sorted out the injustices of your own country?

[SF1]

Aint nobody "woried about the formation of democracy in the Middle East", they just gittin that oil boy wooohoooooo!!!

[shai]

to anon-

 

every land is stolen land, in this year of our lord 2005. bottom line. you can see it happen every day....just turn on the news. except they won't call it "theft", or "rape", or "genocide".... they'll call it "regime change", or "liberation", or some damn thing. there will be people there who don't speak the language....who don't respect the local customs...who kill, maim, and imprison with immunity....who hire focus groups to come up with euphemisms like, "we're bringing democracy to the masses", when they should just be screaming "KICK THEIR ASS! TAKE THEIR GAS! RAH RAH USA!"....the reason this administration gets away with it, is simple. two words- MANIFEST DESTINY.... "God told us that that's OUR gas under THEIR sand....halliburton needs the work...we'll just tell everyone it's the right thing to do...and anyone who disagrees...well, you're either for us...or against us...and next, we'll get the gas in the ANWR in alaska, then venezuela...nigeria..." the reasoning behind this madness is that these bozos actually believe that "since we kicked the natives out of here once, we can do it again, any time, any place. and God help ANYONE who stands in our way."

 

i think you believe that this is the perspective that some of us come from. well, it's not. i agree that the natives in north america have gotten one of the rawest deals in history. not many, if any, of the treaties made in the 19th century are honored today, simply because the prevailing sentiment is that the "common interest" is more important than a man's word...progress means that if you are native, and are lucky enough to live somewhere that isn't a toxic waste dump or in the middle of the desert, someday you may learn what "eminent domain" means when some sharpie decides to plunk condos down right where you live. then, guess what? you gotta go, so sorry, here's a blanket and some smokes...

 

however, i have a bone to pick with folks who say that they are getting screwed....when that's all they do. i read a book once about the indians in northern ontario called, "a poison stronger than love". it was about the high rate of alcoholism and its effects on the indians... the thing is, the book didn't discuss how to solve the problem- it just identified it. and, as fucked up as it sounds, if you treat anyone like a second class citizen long enough, and wear them down through war, disease, deprivation, substance abuse, and racism, THEY WILL GIVE UP. and then, once you've taken away their land and culture, they'll lose their identity and self-worth. at that point, you can do whatever you want to them, and they probably won't fight back.

 

BUT...i also believe in the power of the human spirit, and the power of the truth. and, i think that personal choice and free will are two qualities that have a bearing on one's station in life. some kids choose to strive for a life beyond the ghetto....and some kids can't, or won't, see beyond tomorrow's hustle. people who are bettering themselves so they and their kids can have a better life are too busy to complain about the breaks.

 

here's my vision....

 

what i would like to see, is tribes finding legal representation to win back some of the rights afforded them in treaties. then, attempt to buy back or homestead as much ancestral land as possible- a lot of indian land seized is still owned by the bureau of land management, and it's mostly open space. plus, i think native homesteading is only fair, considering that several treaties have guaranteed unused land to different tribes, and, the debts have gone largely uncollected, with the exception of alcatraz, of course.

 

then, once the land has been settled, develop trade as a means of self-sufficency. it would be based on a sense of responsibility to the community, not on profit. former fishing and water rights could be restored and generate revenue. organic farming, solar energy, and native artisans would also have their place in the economy.

 

schools would be centered around the culture and history of precolumbian america, and would tell both sides of the story of the past five hundred years. native arts, agriculture, medicine, outdoor skills,and religion would be elective courses. a mentorship program and individual counseling would be available for at-risk students. and, of course, the curriculum would be up-to-date and comprehensive to give kids every chance to excel. a trade school or college could provide continued education at little to no cost and would include job training and placement, as well.

 

most importantly, all members of the community would be involved in some capacity. no one would feel left out, or alienated. the tribe would be responsible for each other in the interest of the greater good. most drinking and drug use would probably cease, as one saw his role in society as having meaning and value. medical care would be integrated with native belief, and mental and social health issues would be addressed accordingly. child care would be up to the seniors in the tribe, as it once was.

 

the main roadblock to this is entitlement, or welfare, or reparations, call it what you will. the government was smart- they realized that a lot of poor indians will take cash in the hand instead of saying, "oh, no, wait, we need better services- use our money for that." no, they had to support their families, and unless they were willing to leave their families and work dangerous, low-paying jobs, that grant looked pretty good...and, there were a lot of things that you couldn't hunt or grow, such as everything the cash economy had to offer. also, doctors, schools, and other services tend to go where the money is, or at least the better ones do- all of them have a price, too. so, after landing in a wholly new concept- debt- these poor folks are in thrall to a system that is not on their side. and, that's why they get paid- it simply makes them slide a little further away from dignity and self-respect. that's why the government does it. and, that's why i think it's evil. and, touching on a point i made before, indian casinos are just another kickdown. what pisses me off, is that these indians (i use the term losely) who claim to want to help their people, are just shills for the gambling industry. the tribes don't get that much- they just want people to feel good about losing, is all.

 

you're right, the system is crooked and it's stacked against the little guy, but it's up to the underdogs, and no one else, to make their lot in life better...and if they lie back and take it, then they get exactly what they deserve.

[Killing Butterflies.]

do you think that there will ever be a system of government that can take care of all demands? ignorance was used to frivolously. you aren't going to be able to go back and reverse what happened native americans, jews, irish, african, etc. it is ignorant to ignore the fact it is part of human existence. you choose to participate directly or indirectly, you can't escape exploitation of land, and or peoples. you can have all the best intentions. i would love to live in land of clean running water, and fresh air. i would love to learn to sustain myself via gardens and such. and i love for all of the peoples of the world to be happy and fed. i work everyday towards building a better life for future generations.

instead of trying to work against the nation from the outside in you need to get into the belly:build from within.

and needless to say...

native american tribes warred. it's not as if they did not destroy, or battle each other. there is no saint nation.

[shai]

before i go, there's one more thing.

 

i've done my best to try to look at race or culture as a completely arbitrary factor....it's getting to the point where, one day, the majority of the human race is going to look like tiger woods. and, before i say the following, i KNOW it may piss some people off, and to them i apologize....but, please keep an open mind for a moment.

 

now, if you look past race, or culture, any time people have slaughtered another group of people should be considered a crime against HUMANITY, and not limit to one group of people. as the fellow above said, no one's hands are clean. in addition, avarice (over land, money or resources) and manifest destiny (religion) have motivated far more wars and invasions....this is not to minimize the actions of the nazis, milosevic, stalin, etc. or to minimize the horror of what they did...but, to me, it seems that race oftentimes becomes an rationalization AFTER the killing starts. i would also like to believe that people would not support a campaign based on the racial animosity of a few....but they'll buy just about anything else. it's also known as "the big lie". and, in the end, when the truth comes out, the second lie- "i didn't know"- usually occurs. but, in the end, the more people that die, the bigger black mark it is in history against humanity....

 

....or so i think. comments?

[ILOTSMYBRAIN]

This has been happening through-out history, it is shitty, but these people will most likely receive no compensation for the land they owned, hundred(s) of year(s) ago.

 

If America were to be invaded, and taken over, do you think within a few years, the people that took over would even consider giving land back to the people of the United States? Absofuckinglutely not, and when they arrive would they bring their cultures and ideas and basically face fuck it into us, would they also settle where they want to, and move us out, you fucking bet.

 

I'm not trying to say this isn't wrong, it deffinatly is, but it will continue to happen, as it has been since the dawn of civilization. Unfortunatly, what you have to do is deal with it, and move on. I understand that the situations in these tribes are bad, but there are much worse situations and living conditions elsewhere in the world.

 

The best thing to do, would be to get educated, get out, and then put yourself in a postion to give back to sacred land, and the people you love, other then complaining it isn't fair. Again it sucks, but thats life.

[Krakatau]

Fuck 'em all. Give the land back to the animals.

That goes for you too, New Zealand.

[Killing Butterflies.]

^ha. ha. i like it.

 

that's what i say.

oh wait...

we are animals.

 

:five-o:

[__ __ __ __]

Originally posted by Killing Butterflies.@Aug 31 2005, 02:06 AM

do you think that there will ever be a system of government that can take care of all demands? ....

Quoted post

 

 

whoa can u say NEW WORLD ORDER.... hope thats not what u are going for.. or beleive in..

[shai]

Originally posted by Killing Butterflies.@Aug 31 2005, 03:06 AM

do you think that there will ever be a system of government that can take care of all demands?

there have been societies in the past that did...not so much demands, however, as needs. "demand" implies capitulation to a greater will, to me. for example, we, as a modern capitalist society, place demands on the enviroment that are often unreasonable and unattainable. we demand that our crops be able to feed hundreds of millions of overfed people, and as a result of this use toxic fertilizers to grow our crops, and complain when the wtaer we use is polluted. we demand 99 cent whoppers, and discount or ignore entirely the cost of inhumane treatment of cattle and other livestock. we demand cheap gas so we can drive our four ton suv's three blocks to the store to buy a candy bar, all the while fretting over the war we sent our loved ones to. while driving, we contemplate buying the new issue of people so we can try out that new paris hilton diet, since we are the only culture that sticks its collective head in the sand when doctors tell us to eat less and be more physically active. we expect internet access that works, is accurate, with round-the-clock availability...and curse the exportation of labor by tech corporations who, when asked why jobs are going overseas, say that americans are too expensive, too lazy, and unwilling to retrain or stay current in a rapidly evolving field. we bitch incessantly about the president and his agenda, and neglect to think about the fact that just over half of the country was conned, willingly, into believing he was qualified to run the show for another four years....and deaf and blind to evidence of the contrary.

 

so, as things stand, yes. americans get everything they want, when they want it. i wouldn't say that all needs are being met, such as education, health care, social security, responsible government, peace of mind, civil rights, bipartisan representation in the house and senate, stable markets, job security, crime reduction, corporate oversight, sunshine laws, tax breaks for the lower 90%.....but it seems that if you create enough choices in the marketplace and let hollywood dictate the de facto consciousness and morality of the people, they won't mind. they'll be too busy shopping and watching TV to care.