ILOTSMYBRAIN Posted January 25, 2008 Share Posted January 25, 2008 I'm not going to lie. If I was in Palestine right now, I'd probably be all up for getting in on the Jihad. What is being done to those people will come back to haunt us in the future. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MayorMeanBeans Posted January 25, 2008 Share Posted January 25, 2008 While Hamas provides humanitarian aid for the Palestinians their goals seems more like bribery then actual aid. "Lend us the lives of your children and we'll give you food and education." does hamas or any other authority in palestine conscript? you implied here that you shouldn't have to suffer to get food and education, as they are human rights. i agree. its a fucked up part of most of the third world that access to what has been deemed 'universal' is often contingent on either loyalty or apathy politically. i think much of gaza/west bank it is the latter. as far as i can tell (i've never been), the only reason why fatah or hamas has gained power is because the people are too apathetic, too sick of being stomped on. additionally, its a path dependent process, hamas/fatah get the resources because they got in power, and they stay in power because the got the resources. They are hostile, and their ultimate goal is the destruction of Israel. They care little about anyone but themselves. They are responsible for hundreds, if not thousands, of deaths both Jewish and Arab, and preach hatred in the schools that they built to educate. They don't want peace they want all Jews and opposition dead. Hamas rejects the traditional peaceful views of Islam with gross misinterpretations to further their cause. They are radical, two faced, forked tongued, hate mongers. i wouldn't say that their ultimate goal is the destruction of israel, i would say it is the liberation of the palestinian people (hamas proponents equate these as much as their opponents). what is crucial for the negotiation process (if hamas ever enters) is that realistically hamas will have to live with israel's existence, and it gives them the negotiable ability to 'concede' israel's existence. i hope no one in hamas thinks they can destroy israel, cuz its not happening. shortsightedness equates the two, but if hamas ever wants to be a legitimate authority (a primary duty of the state is to protect its citizens, something hamas has hopelessly failed at), it needs to hurry the fuck up and pay lip service real quick. i can imagine the headline. hamas 'accepts' (as if they were in any position to be asked at this point) israel's right to exist. "Hamas acknowledges Israel's right to exist, in a dramatic extension of the olive branch." haha. i laugh cuz i don't know what else to do, but hamas really fucked up after its opportunities to legitimize its platform after elections 2005. they could have recognized israel's right to exist, but have a stronger negotiating platform on the basis of democratic legitimacy, human rights, incorruptibility etc. instead they ostracized themselves. There is nothing they have done that is motivates me to even attempt to see them in a positive light. yeah they've really only demontrated they are more effective as a militant group than a govt. oh- and they more or less wrote a how-to guide of how to ostracize yourself while putting your ideology way ahead of your people's well-being. awesome. anyone actual hamas supporters (policy wise) on here? or just those that unequivically hate on america and 'its interests'? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MAR Posted January 25, 2008 Share Posted January 25, 2008 i wouldn't say that their ultimate goal is the destruction of israel, I would. On 30 March 2007, Hamas spokesman Ismail Radwan ended his "prayers to Allah" in a sermon broadcast on the Palestinian Authority’s TV quoting the hadith "The Hour [of Resurrection] will not take place until the Muslims fight the Jews and the Muslims kill them, and the rock and the tree will say: 'Oh, Muslim, servant of Allah, there is a Jew behind me, kill him!'" Al Aqsa mosque would be "liberated" "through the rifle", since the Israeli occupation knew no other language. He asked "Jihad-fighting worshippers" in "Palestine and everywhere" and Allah to take away the oppressor Jews and Americans and their supporters!"[73] In April 2007, Palestinian Media Watch released a video in which "Dr. Ahmad Bahar, acting speaker of the Palestinian Legislative Council," refers to Israel's Jewish citizens as a "cancerous lump" and prays to Allah to "count them and kill them to the last one, and don't leave even one." In an article published on April 23, 2007 in the Hamas paper Al-Risalah, its author Kan'an Ubayd stated: "... the extermination of Jews is good for the inhabitants of the worlds on a land, to which Allah gave his blessing for the sake of the inhabitants of the worlds.” http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hamas Not to mention they like to quote Protocol of the Elders of Zion a lot. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MayorMeanBeans Posted January 25, 2008 Share Posted January 25, 2008 i know that they say that their ultimate goal is the destruction of israel, and of course it makes sense for israel to take that very seriously, and i don't blame israel for not negotiating until hamas recognizes them. that makes perfect sense to me. however- realistically, this isn't going to happen. no matter what any sermon says, hamas is either going to be forever doomed to be a militant group with limited popular support for hits extremist inclinations regarding israel, or its going to moderate. that was the hope in 2005 (i remember reading at the time that hamas campaigning was a win-win for israel, either hamas will moderate or they get obliterated, as we're seeing now). i honestly believe that hamas is high-balling their negotiating position, so that when they do recognize israel, it will be seen as a concession, not as a given (as itshould be, you shouldn't be rewarded for recognizing someone else has a right to life). mar are you israeli? it doesn't matter either way, but i just want to point out that me my views are predicated by the fact that i am chillin in canada, with no real consequences for my political inclinations, except for the fact that down the road, the most that will happen is "oh shit i was right", or "oh shit i was wrong." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MayorMeanBeans Posted January 25, 2008 Share Posted January 25, 2008 mar i guess what im proposing is that its not like 'hamas is hellbent on destroying israel, regardless of cost.' i assume that there is a cost at which they say "nah it ain't worth it.' when alternatives become more attractive, presumably that cost lowers. i assume most mothers regardless of culture would never say, "i would rather my 17 y o die in war than living where he was born.", palestinians included. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CACashRefund Posted January 25, 2008 Share Posted January 25, 2008 ISRAEL WAS A NATION CREATED THROUGH "TERRORISM" SO THE ACTIONS BY GROUPS THAT ISRAEL LABELS AS TERRORIST ARE ONLY A CONTINUATION OF WHAT THEY STARTED OH AND LEMME BUST OUT THE HAMAS GREEN AND SKI MASK BUT IM HAVING SECOND THOUGHTS ABOUT IT IF I MANAGE TO NOT BE PARANOID ABOUT WEARING IT AND TAKING A PIC THEN ILL POST IT UP 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MAR Posted January 25, 2008 Share Posted January 25, 2008 Do your homework and stop reading Hamas propaganda Israel wasn't created through terrorism. And dont quote me Stern Gang and Irgun. Seriously, I am not in the mood to play Arab Israel conflict and who's the big bad wolf. If you want you can dig through my endless posts in crossfire and read all about it in books, not written by Edward Said. Israel has a right to exist. Palestine had a right to exist, in my opinion they gave up that right when they attacked in '45, '54, and '67. Dayan made a mistake and now Israel has to deal with it, properly, humanly, but the Palestinians don't make it easy. Yes, Israel has some things they need to work out, but as long as Hamas exists the way they do, it will never happen. Israel is around and it will be around, so grow up and deal with it. mar i guess what im proposing is that its not like 'hamas is hellbent on destroying israel, regardless of cost.' i assume that there is a cost at which they say "nah it ain't worth it.' when alternatives become more attractive, presumably that cost lowers. i assume most mothers regardless of culture would never say, "i would rather my 17 y o die in war than living where he was born.", palestinians included. Idk throwing away human life to kill civilians is pretty low. and while mother might not be thrilled with their sons blowing themselves up they are taught to accept it through tv and in the culture. Its pretty sick. Its pretty much a cult, imho. p.s. Im not Israeli, but I did spend 2yrs living there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CACashRefund Posted January 25, 2008 Share Posted January 25, 2008 GO BACK TO ISRAEL Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MAR Posted January 25, 2008 Share Posted January 25, 2008 PAY FOR MY TICKET. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CACashRefund Posted January 25, 2008 Share Posted January 25, 2008 BACK I SAY! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MayorMeanBeans Posted February 5, 2008 Share Posted February 5, 2008 the mother of yesterday's suicide bomber. she doesn't look too pleased that her son is kicking it in paradise right now. i think its important to remember the human side of the conflict, regardless of what dumbasses think 'is the right thing to do.' im not justifying anything, i'm saying this in a 'ceterus paribus' sort of way. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MayorMeanBeans Posted February 5, 2008 Share Posted February 5, 2008 ps just to recognize the retardation of the operation, two men, younger than 25, suicided themselves to kill a 73 y o woman. what an efficient way to use available resources on the part of al aqsa/hamas/pflp whoever wants to claim this act of stupidity. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CACashRefund Posted February 6, 2008 Share Posted February 6, 2008 al aqsa was behind it and unless that woman was golda meir, then she wasnt the intended target in fact i believe that the attack met the goals of its planners its the first bombing in israel in almost a year, bombings like these are more for the propaganda than to serve actual military aims and only one of them killed themselves the other one was nearby and he was knocked down by the explosion and some doctor went to go help him thinking he was a victim and discovered the suicide vest and was shot and killed by a policeman before he could detonate his explosives Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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