Guest blancito Posted May 29, 2002 Share Posted May 29, 2002 Originally posted by Rebus And surely the writer who did the piece was deadly serious... Originally posted by northernlite -Oh yeah, to the one who dissed the use of american hiphop lingo in that piece: first of all, you do not have the exclusives on a way of talking, and second this was an ironic remark on how graffiti is supposed to be hiphop. yeah, yeah, yeah. alright so listen, i have much respect for talented and dedicated artists of any nationality, race, creed, religion, height, sex and weight. now here in the US there is much attention given to the notion that graffiti is one of the four elements of hip hop. being a rather open minded person, i like graffiti of many influences, styles and cultures so i am willing to overlook the fact that some graf is not straight hip hop. but frankly, in fuksh's 'ironic' attempt to make some comment about graf and hip hop, it comes off pretty fucking ignorant to me. it would be like the french making 'ironic remarks' about the origins of jazz. kind of seems to me like this...you stole an american street style (graf as such on this site) and then act like it's connection to hip hop is somehow inherently ironic. sorry, but that doesn'y fly. ironic to me is people from homogeneous, socialized, european cultures co-opting styles, ideas, etc from a culture born from the kind of openess and variety that exists only, you guessed it, here in the US of A and making 'ironic remarks' about them. if you truly love it, show respect; don't be a smart ass (unless its going to be really funny) but again, though i know i have just opened the floodgates of hating from many non-american writers and hip hop afficianados, i am not attacking, or insulting the globalizers of hip hop, like i said i have a lot of respect for people who show their true love through dedication, craft and talent. its just when i see shit like that it makes me wonder where that person is coming from. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ceso One SAF Posted May 29, 2002 Share Posted May 29, 2002 why does it seem that euro writers are either REALLY good or REALLY shitty these pics for example shitty and some good euro writers like: dare tws, swet tws, bates, coxes ect im talking wall piecing not trains Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mizx Posted May 30, 2002 Share Posted May 30, 2002 craziest thing i notice about these guys is they come up with these weird styles that would look prolly soo ugly on paper.. but when they paint them there awesome.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Proph UAcrew Posted May 30, 2002 Share Posted May 30, 2002 As far as Euro writers being so much better than American... I really disagree with that statement. Some have great techniques and styles, but they will never compare to US writers, on any level... well, exept for 3D pieces, and fucked up lettering. The birthplace of $5+ cans of "Special Graff Paint" (which have made so many think that buying that shit is cool, and almost made the art of Racking extinct)... Will never compare with the birthplace of graffiti culture, where racking was once unquestioned in this game we choose to play. Where stolen paint, homade caps, and shit taken off of cans of spray starch and roach spray produced whole car masterpieces that ran for days, even weeks and months at times, viewed by millions, hated by some, but loved by even people who knew nothing of this sub-culture that had started right in the slums of the city. I see graff as (as Pac once said) "A rose that grew from concrete". and that concrete is the USA. Euro writers pay for paint, and even have graffiti supply companies. do any of yall even rack? some rich kids with time on there hands. A branch can never grow bigger than the trunk of the tree and it's roots. Like Shiek from the LOX once said, "How the fuck Daniel Son gonna beat Mr. Meogi" Originally posted by blancito yeah, yeah, yeah. alright so listen, i have much respect for talented and dedicated artists of any nationality, race, creed, religion, height, sex and weight. ...its just when i see shit like that it makes me wonder where that person is coming from. I feel you 100%. What Euro (or any non american, and non-hip hop) writers need to understand is that just because they don't listen to rap and respect the culture and everything involved with it, they still should recognize it's origins. Even if you hate rap, breakdancing, turntablism, beatboxing and any other forms of artistic expression associated with hip hop, you still love graffiti (assuming), which is an element of Hip Hop whether you like it or not. Whether you choose to recognise that or deny the fact is irrelevant. Graffiti is where it is today, BECAUSE OF HIP HOP. The majority of the oldschool writers who pieced trains back in the day were involved with hip hop. They were part of hip hop, and they, us, people involved in the progression of hip hop over the years have made this form of art progress to where it stands today. At a place where people who have nothing to do with the culture of hip hop can pick up a can and denounce it as a piece of our culture, just because you don't like rap, breakdancing, or whatever makes them hate, or just not like hip hop. I could sit here and name about a hundred (easy) writers from now till back in the day that have influenced so many, and all were involved in this culture we call hip hop. To try and deny graffiti as a part of hip hop, or hip hop being the main originator of this sub-culture called graff would be like a black american denying his African roots. As Fuksh, or whatever the half assed writer is called says "Recognize"... cause like Cope 2 once said... "Niggas know". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest blancito Posted May 30, 2002 Share Posted May 30, 2002 Originally posted by Proph UAcrew Like Shiek from the LOX once said, "How the fuck Daniel Son gonna beat Mr. Meogi" genius Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest L.RonHubbard Posted May 30, 2002 Share Posted May 30, 2002 all swell. sweden has always been style innovators. fuck what an yone says, this shit is blazin-and its always been!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Fukshitup Posted May 30, 2002 Share Posted May 30, 2002 Everybody seems to take this way too serious, I love hiphop, I am a vinyl collector to the degree that it´s hard for me to afford anything else. I listen to all kinds, but hiphop has been my main attraction for the last seven years. -However, I don´t really think that graffiti and hiphop always have to go hand in hand. I like graffiti because it is a way of free expression, nobody can tell me what to do. Well, they can, but I don´t have to listen, what I do is already illegal. You can be a hiphop artist without caring the least bit for the spraypainted word, or a writer that don´t care much for hiphop. I don´t mind when the case is the opposite, but sometimes it just feels too tired and stereotype. Here in Sweden graffiti is very well connected with hiphop, but it came naturally since both arrived hand in hand in well known documentaries and movies. I guess it was just me being tired of how this is just supposed to be here in Sweden. Sorry if I offended anyone from the United States, the birthplace of graffiti Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest imported_b0b Posted May 30, 2002 Share Posted May 30, 2002 Originally posted by blancito ironic to me is people from homogeneous, socialized, european cultures co-opting styles, ideas, etc from a culture born from the kind of openess and variety that exists only, you guessed it, here in the US of A Don't believe all the propaganda please. American *isn't* that great. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest blancito Posted May 30, 2002 Share Posted May 30, 2002 blah blah blah blah Originally posted by northernlite Everybody seems to take this way too serious... -However, I don´t really think that graffiti and hiphop always have to go hand in hand. I like graffiti because it is a way of free expression, nobody can tell me what to do. Well, they can, but I don´t have to listen, what I do is already illegal. You can be a hiphop artist without caring the least bit for the spraypainted word, or a writer that don´t care much for hiphop. I don´t mind when the case is the opposite, but sometimes it just feels too tired and stereotype. look, not taking anything too serious here. but let's be honest, by dropping hip hop verbs fuksh wasn't exactly saying "yes, though i write graffiti, i am not into hip hop, so please consider this piece without judging it with respect to graffiti's connection to hip hop" if he was trying to be ironic or sarcastic, he failed, it was not funny, clever, insightful, cool, dope, werd, fresh, fly, lol or the shiznit. i agree that people are free to choose the level of hip hop influence on their work as graffiti writers. but the history is there, so know your place and show respect. as far as the comment about the connection between hip hop and graf being 'tired and sterotyped' i'm a little stumped by that. elaborate. Originally posted by crazeeb0b Don't believe all the propaganda please. American *isn't* that great. [/quote yes, and the english are the toast of the civilized world. europe has little claim to the moral high ground in global affairs. as for our overwhleming global influence...hey, nobody is forcing you to eat big macs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OZEK Posted May 30, 2002 Share Posted May 30, 2002 Re: blah blah blah blah Originally posted by blancito yes, and the english are the toast of the civilized world. europe has little claim to the moral high ground in global affairs. as for our overwhleming global influence...hey, nobody is forcing you to eat big macs. No one's forcing you to speak English. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest blancito Posted May 30, 2002 Share Posted May 30, 2002 Re: Re: blah blah blah blah Originally posted by OZEK No one's forcing you to speak English. good point, but i'll bet you're glad we didn't end up speaking french. despite my many misgivings about america, i disagree with crazeebob....it is great. just ask mohammed atta...even though he was a player hater we still taught him to fly planes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest deadlydnut Posted May 30, 2002 Share Posted May 30, 2002 Originally posted by Proph UAcrew As far as Euro writers being so much better than American... I really disagree with that statement. Some have great techniques and styles, but they will never compare to US writers, on any level... well, exept for 3D pieces, and fucked up lettering. The birthplace of $5+ cans of "Special Graff Paint" (which have made so many think that buying that shit is cool, and almost made the art of Racking extinct)... Will never compare with the birthplace of graffiti culture, where racking was once unquestioned in this game we choose to play. Where stolen paint, homade caps, and shit taken off of cans of spray starch and roach spray produced whole car masterpieces that ran for days, even weeks and months at times, viewed by millions, hated by some, but loved by even people who knew nothing of this sub-culture that had started right in the slums of the city. I see graff as (as Pac once said) "A rose that grew from concrete". and that concrete is the USA. Euro writers pay for paint, and even have graffiti supply companies. do any of yall even rack? some rich kids with time on there hands. A branch can never grow bigger than the trunk of the tree and it's roots. Like Shiek from the LOX once said, "How the fuck Daniel Son gonna beat Mr. Meogi" I feel you 100%. What Euro (or any non american, and non-hip hop) writers need to understand is that just because they don't listen to rap and respect the culture and everything involved with it, they still should recognize it's origins. Even if you hate rap, breakdancing, turntablism, beatboxing and any other forms of artistic expression associated with hip hop, you still love graffiti (assuming), which is an element of Hip Hop whether you like it or not. Whether you choose to recognise that or deny the fact is irrelevant. Graffiti is where it is today, BECAUSE OF HIP HOP. The majority of the oldschool writers who pieced trains back in the day were involved with hip hop. They were part of hip hop, and they, us, people involved in the progression of hip hop over the years have made this form of art progress to where it stands today. At a place where people who have nothing to do with the culture of hip hop can pick up a can and denounce it as a piece of our culture, just because you don't like rap, breakdancing, or whatever makes them hate, or just not like hip hop. I could sit here and name about a hundred (easy) writers from now till back in the day that have influenced so many, and all were involved in this culture we call hip hop. To try and deny graffiti as a part of hip hop, or hip hop being the main originator of this sub-culture called graff would be like a black american denying his African roots. As Fuksh, or whatever the half assed writer is called says "Recognize"... cause like Cope 2 once said... "Niggas know". actually a lot of writers in the 70's listened to punk as well but the main factor is still hip hop where it originated... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest imported_b0b Posted May 31, 2002 Share Posted May 31, 2002 Re: blah blah blah blah Originally posted by blancito Originally posted by crazeeb0b Don't believe all the propaganda please. American *isn't* that great. [/quote yes, and the english are the toast of the civilized world. europe has little claim to the moral high ground in global affairs. as for our overwhleming global influence...hey, nobody is forcing you to eat big macs. I don't eat Big Macs.. I don't get it, I wasn't getting into Global Politics or anything like that at all.. Whoever first posted that graffiti could only have started in Amercia, as Europe is too bland is wrong. Simple as that, the qualities of "openness and variety" he said unique to America are all over the globe. I was pointing out it "isn't that great", meaning it is still great, but not great as he thinks. As for the English? Well we're dicks, but so are the rest of the world. The whole "my country is better than yours" game is boring. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest imported_Europe Posted May 31, 2002 Share Posted May 31, 2002 Let people paint what they want and let them think for themselves, instead of being Mr Policeman, one U.S. dictator in the world is enough. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest blancito Posted May 31, 2002 Share Posted May 31, 2002 true, true. my bad. just having fun flying off the handle. i'm not trying to tell peeps how to think in regards to the fuksh piece...just to think. but one quick aside on the american dictator...you'll find few more critical than i of bush and his puppet masters, but the true power lies in the hands of the consumer. stop buying and the power of multinational corps and politics diminishes. spend wisely. or rack. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
El Mikinbin De Miami Posted March 9, 2005 Share Posted March 9, 2005 2 cents? Yes it's true that America is the Great Grand daddy of this precious art we all love...And if America never originated graffiti I still believe it would still exist in another form. Europe today I think is really coming correct. And with all the toys, hating, Biting, and beef going on here in the States, Europe seems like a graffiti heaven. It's almost like the golden age of graff for Europe is now, and in U.S. has passed. Europe is waay dope. Of course getting the concept of graff, the styles, and ideas from the USA, Europe has been able to enjoy a way a model of how to do things as well as less heat as opposed to over here. Nothing but time.. I'm sure they're starting to tighten up things across the pond as well now, but nothing to where it's gotten here today. I tellyall one thing... Besides the graff, yall have much more respect and class when it comes to avoiding beef with each other and respecting nice art to not get toyed. Yall just seem to be enjoying and appreciating it much more than over here. And that's a shame. That being said, theres' sooo much dope shit over here, don't get me wrong. I still got an incredibly growing urge to get my butt over to Europe and smoke a few coffee shops out and throw down some pieces over there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dangmang Posted March 9, 2005 Share Posted March 9, 2005 Originally posted by deadlydnut@May 30 2002, 03:07 PM Originally posted by Proph UAcrew As far as Euro writers being so much better than American... I really disagree with that statement. Some have great techniques and styles, but they will never compare to US writers, on any level... well, exept for 3D pieces, and fucked up lettering. The birthplace of $5+ cans of "Special Graff Paint" (which have made so many think that buying that shit is cool, and almost made the art of Racking extinct)... Will never compare with the birthplace of graffiti culture, where racking was once unquestioned in this game we choose to play. Where stolen paint, homade caps, and shit taken off of cans of spray starch and roach spray produced whole car masterpieces that ran for days, even weeks and months at times, viewed by millions, hated by some, but loved by even people who knew nothing of this sub-culture that had started right in the slums of the city. I see graff as (as Pac once said) "A rose that grew from concrete". and that concrete is the USA. Euro writers pay for paint, and even have graffiti supply companies. do any of yall even rack? some rich kids with time on there hands. A branch can never grow bigger than the trunk of the tree and it's roots. Like Shiek from the LOX once said, "How the fuck Daniel Son gonna beat Mr. Meogi" I feel you 100%. What Euro (or any non american, and non-hip hop) writers need to understand is that just because they don't listen to rap and respect the culture and everything involved with it, they still should recognize it's origins. Even if you hate rap, breakdancing, turntablism, beatboxing and any other forms of artistic expression associated with hip hop, you still love graffiti (assuming), which is an element of Hip Hop whether you like it or not. Whether you choose to recognise that or deny the fact is irrelevant. Graffiti is where it is today, BECAUSE OF HIP HOP. The majority of the oldschool writers who pieced trains back in the day were involved with hip hop. They were part of hip hop, and they, us, people involved in the progression of hip hop over the years have made this form of art progress to where it stands today. At a place where people who have nothing to do with the culture of hip hop can pick up a can and denounce it as a piece of our culture, just because you don't like rap, breakdancing, or whatever makes them hate, or just not like hip hop. I could sit here and name about a hundred (easy) writers from now till back in the day that have influenced so many, and all were involved in this culture we call hip hop. To try and deny graffiti as a part of hip hop, or hip hop being the main originator of this sub-culture called graff would be like a black american denying his African roots. As Fuksh, or whatever the half assed writer is called says "Recognize"... cause like Cope 2 once said... "Niggas know". actually a lot of writers in the 70's listened to punk as well but the main factor is still hip hop where it originated... Quoted post where did you get your info from dubro. graff came way before rap. clasic rock and oldschool metal was big in the graff world hence dondi's children of the grave series of whole cars. even iz the wiz, seen and many others quoted rock bands and used there images in there train pieces. isnt there a band that concist of all old train writers that played at the hall of fame. (108 and park?) hip hop and hardcore (american punk) were neighbors in nyc in the 70's and 80s. look at the beastieboys first two 7inch releases. not rap music it was hardcore. the point im making is to be part of the hip hop world you do not just have to be all about all of the elements. its about style. i concider my self a b-boy and i play guitar in a metalcore band. i also make beats and i go to the local hip hop shows. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.