Smart Posted February 19, 2002 Share Posted February 19, 2002 Originally posted by Agent Uprise Cuba- Like I said Im an anarchist so I (like you) consider thier government illegitimate just as I would any other gov. ESPESCIALLY the United States (Im assuming, unlike you) Uh, well I'm not sure what gun you're pointing at me but I think it's merely my support of organized government in the first place. I didn't say Cuba has an illegitimate govternment. I said Communism is an invalid system of govt. I will also say that what has happened, as far as governmental direction, in Cuba since it's 'liberation' has far more to do with Castro and his reaction to aggressive US foreign policy than anything in the 'little red book'... Roo - that is EXACTLY the reason, well, and perhaps a lingering mistrust of "white man's help"... I think we've had our share of infected blankets... Also, thankfully, it's gotten a bit quieter, but I almost had to put a hit on that ignorant mofo Zack from RATM who seemed to make reference to LP's plight in every fucking article. Using it as a stepping stone for his fame, paying lip service in the public eye and doing nothing substantial behind the scenes... (Hmmm, big donation to AIM or an Xbox... hmmm)... if anyone is interested in learning more about Leonard Peltier and the American Indian Movement, please read 'In the Spirit of Crazy Horse' by Peter Matthiessen. Then, if you feel motivated to help, send money to the Res. Even LP knows he has it better in jail than almost everyone on the reservation. He has better health care, 3 hots and a cot. His freedom will not cure the larger problem that AIM tried to address. NOBODY, least of all Peltier, wanted to shift the focus from the civil rights violations of an entire nation over to the civil rights violations of a single man. So, again, if you want to help, the way is monetary donations to, or if possible, actual volunteer help on the res. Indian children NEED SCHOOLBOOKS AND TEACHERS! Also, in this time of war, I urge you all to remember that, as an ethnic group, American Indians have volunteered at a greater rate for, lost more lives in, AND become heroes more often in every single war of the 20th century.* *except DesertStorm and the current operation whereby the incredibly small number of total wounded/killed presents a non-analagous statistic. (i.e. if only 4 people die and 2 of them were black, then they lost twice as many in the war, but...) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest wakassOATH Posted February 19, 2002 Share Posted February 19, 2002 trew story.. my dad knows this amer-indian at his werk and became good friends with her .. on one of the indian holidays she went up north to visit her family on the reserves and brought her dad a bottle of expsive after shave ..anyway he opened the package and took out the bottle.. she though he would freshen up a little ... instead he said thanks.. broke the top off the thing and drank it in one gulp now ive seen as many m.r.e movies about native americans as the next guy and those.. gas-sniffin, cologe-drinking, lysol-huffin, dumb asses are straight fuked up in the head sorry if its off topic .. but it had to be said and another thing.. it really pisses me off when those whinos bitch and whine about "the white man" and how they stole their land and killed half of them .. i had one of those chief gas huffers come to my school and give us all a big three hour speech on how "the white" man did this and that.. bla bla .. eat a fukin dick .. my family owned land in frace and got kicked off .. some of them died in resistance.. you dont se me going to france and opening my mouth and talking shit about " the french men" and how i want my property back. fuk i get so fuking pised over that shit i say wegive them a few liters of primuem un-leaded to shut them up. note: not all native americans piss me off.. i accually have a few friends that are native american and are quite chill.. but those fukers that complain every five seconds and then turn around to get another wiff from the bag full of lysol really piss the shit out of me a fukin men Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smart Posted February 19, 2002 Share Posted February 19, 2002 i didn't think it's possible but you seem to get dumber by the minute... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest wakassOATH Posted February 19, 2002 Share Posted February 19, 2002 hows that ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smart Posted February 19, 2002 Share Posted February 19, 2002 don't ask me to explain it, I'm mystified. As I said, I didn't even think it was possible... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest wakassOATH Posted February 19, 2002 Share Posted February 19, 2002 are you tellin me that native americans dont stiff gas and bitch about stolen land? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smart Posted February 19, 2002 Share Posted February 19, 2002 no, I'm saying that your willingness to portray thousands of people in a single broad stroke basically makes you a racist. Your argument is simple character assassination, these are not problems exclusive to the indiuan community. The reasons that these things occur at a higher rate on the reservation are different from, but similar to, the reasons crack addiction rates are higher in the ghetto. I'm sure that in your mind, niggers are just a bunch of crack smokers who want some repayment for being slaves. the mental deterioration continues unabated... Look at yourself man, at this rate you'll be drooling and pissing yourself before the day is out... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest wakassOATH Posted February 19, 2002 Share Posted February 19, 2002 above i contradicted my self saying that all indians were gas sniffers and then saying that i have indian friends .. yes of coarse not all native americans are into that shit and i worded that wrong un intenally in reality i do have indian freinds .. and i am prejudest agaisnt crack heads, serial killers. phedopiles and the rest of them yes i am saying that i HATE pedophiles,crack heads(not crack babys) and gas sniffing indians (and of coarse other gas sniffers) and others without meeting each and every one of them.. whatever i have freinds of pretty much every natoionality.. i dont hate people for for their race.. i hate them for the shit they do.. and it bothers me when people bitch about land and whatnot from hundreds of years ago -- and who usually does that Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
uh and yes Posted February 19, 2002 Share Posted February 19, 2002 socialist working on a Govt major/Econ minor. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ShitFuck Posted February 19, 2002 Share Posted February 19, 2002 Smart, please explain the following to me in greater detail. First of all, how does one become a hero by being duped by their government to fight illegitamite wars? Secondly, how are you such an authoritarian on Marxist theory? Point to a 'soviet' on the map? Just because they don't have a national fucking flower doesn't mean the people dont exist. It's a perfect example of how Europeans stole Native American land in the first place, just because they didn't have a flag doesn't mean they aren't a valid group of people. Thirdly, you skipped over Chavez and the impending Venezualan revolution in your list of crimes committed by cited individuals; I'm curious as to your thoughts on him. Lastly, could you please give me a reason why, as you put it, Communism isn't a valid form of government? I'm just interested in hearing your points before I start refuting them. Thanks. Oh, and oath, eat a cock. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jah Posted February 19, 2002 Share Posted February 19, 2002 thats a tough one. im a little of a couple. some democrat, some green party, tiny bit of republican, little anarchist, and a little i hate politics cuz its all bullshit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Agent Uprise Posted February 19, 2002 Share Posted February 19, 2002 im into politics..but why share it here?not a valid platform for discussion Well we could take this conversation to one of the million boards whose sole topic is politics, but thiers nothing any of us could say they havent already heard a skrillion times. Hip hop is the culture (lets leave all arguements concerning hip-hop as a valid culture/counter-culture blah blah blah to another thread) that im most involved in and there for hip hoppers are the people who opinion Im most interested in (changing) Then there's Phoolan Devi Who's that? Upping everything Shitfuck said especially the part about oath eating lunch! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smart Posted February 19, 2002 Share Posted February 19, 2002 Originally posted by ShitFuck Smart, please explain the following to me in greater detail. First of all, how does one become a hero by being duped by their government to fight illegitamite wars? I wsa refering in most part the WWI and WWII, illegitimate? Your memory of the 20th century is pretty short if you don't go back past Nam or Korea... Secondly, how are you such an authoritarian on Marxist theory? Point to a 'soviet' on the map? Just because they don't have a national fucking flower doesn't mean the people dont exist. It's a perfect example of how Europeans stole Native American land in the first place, just because they didn't have a flag doesn't mean they aren't a valid group of people. the term Soviet refers to a government that no longer exists, not a race of people, just as we don't call Germans "Nazis"... Thirdly, you skipped over Chavez and the impending Venezualan revolution in your list of crimes committed by cited individuals; I'm curious as to your thoughts on him. uh??? The American Ceasar Chavez was who I was refering to, he's been dead since '93 you know... So, you tell me what American labor reform thru the 50's and 60's has to do with the 'impending Venezualan revolution' Lastly, could you please give me a reason why, as you put it, Communism isn't a valid form of government? I'm just interested in hearing your points before I start refuting them. Thanks. Because it doesn't work. It's never actually done what it set out to, the masses are not equal, not mater how you slice it there's a ruling class and a proletariat... Oh, and oath, eat a cock. FINALLY, something we agree on... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Are2 Posted February 19, 2002 Share Posted February 19, 2002 awesome look at this guy in action! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smart Posted February 19, 2002 Share Posted February 19, 2002 ;) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Agent Uprise Posted February 20, 2002 Share Posted February 20, 2002 Well I'd argue that democracy isn't a valid form of government because my interests, like most americans, aren't being represented by my government. Every one knows the golden rule 'he who has the gold makes the rules' definatly not my idea of an ideal government. Look at the whole voting process, how many people cant vote because bullshit laws deem them unfit to participate in 'thier' government . Heres the breakdown as taking from 'the straight dope' Only four states allow felons to vote while they are in prison, 18 allow felons to vote while they are on parole and 21 allow them to vote while on probation. Only 10 states permanently disenfranchise all felons and another handful do so to some ex-offenders or restore the ability to vote after a time limit. The Sentencing Project, a prisoner advocacy group, says that 13% of black males are disenfranchised under these laws. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ShitFuck Posted February 20, 2002 Share Posted February 20, 2002 Comrade Smart. I was unaware that you were referring to world war one and two when referring to soldiers as "heros".. but I'm still not so sure on the validity of the word.. but.. that might just be taste. The term soviet, in its orthodox sense, does not refer to a government. A soviet is a type of workers cluster.. a workers 'crew' if you will. And, used in its intended fashion, soviets exist all over the world. Let's not forget we are living in the US, the least class counscious nation on this wretched planet. What's the rate for union participation, like, less than 2% of the work force or something. In places like Pakistan and Venezuala soviets do exist. Even in places like Spain, Italy, Belgium.. so on and so forth. I thought you were talking about Chavez, as in the Stalinist Venezualan leader. It's a hot topic for commies right now, which is why I thought that was what you were reffering to. As for Communism not working.. well.. I could write a fucking novel on this. Basically, my two points are what exactly determines working? Does this epoch of imperialism "work"? I'm sure any thinking human would not say it does. Secondly, how do you know? We've never seen Communism as outlined by Marx, Engles, Lenin or Trotsky. We've seen Stalinism, Maoism, deformed workers states, proletarian bonapartist states, etc. but never traditional Marxism. Lastly, as for Mumia's alleged innocence.. he's one fucking guy. Yes, he wrote some cool shit which I've read, and yes, he very well might be innocent, but there's a world to save, with hundreds of thousands of Mumia's. We should keep our eyes on the real problems, not one if its side affects. Peace. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smart Posted February 20, 2002 Share Posted February 20, 2002 according to the American Heritage Dictionary: soviet - In the Soviet Union, one of the popularly elected legislative assemblies existing at local, regional, and national levels, organized on the basis of the workers' soldiers' and peasants' councils of the revolutionary era. from the Russian: Sovet - 'council' I must point out that the first 4 words of the definition are "In the Soviet Union"... a nonexistant socialist republic. As far as 'what exactly determines working'... well, I would say the achievement of the fundamental ideology inherent in any system... in this case, fundamental equality of all... which hasn't happened yet... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iphs Posted February 20, 2002 Share Posted February 20, 2002 politics... and the politics of politics.... manage to grasp my attention ---- however i do not identify myself within the boundaries of a political party.... yes, i agree with a party more often than an other- yet i refuse to stand on drawn out rubrics of what is "appropriate" for each party focus on the issues being brought forth- and forget being this or that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest im not witty Posted February 20, 2002 Share Posted February 20, 2002 smart, i used to think that you were a bastard when the topic of politics would come up, which it does often. but now, even though we dont agree on alot, you're much better in my book. I dont want to argue now, maybe ill come back later. oh and for the record im all for an anarchist utopia, but im not gonna try and call myself a revolutionary. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ShitFuck Posted February 20, 2002 Share Posted February 20, 2002 Ok, well, i wont bitch over the word, but i think even in the "american" heritage whatever, it points to the fact that soviets are worker clusters. Yeah, it is tied into the soviet union.. think of the name.. a union of soviets. Oh well, it's only a word. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest wakassOATH Posted February 20, 2002 Share Posted February 20, 2002 yea now that its morning here i re read the shit i said it was some shitty shit its hot a fuk here, i was hungry and there wasa lack of nicotine in my system i was just getting more angry and pissed off as i was writing and i didnt mean the stuff i wrote sorry if i offended any of you.. accually when i read this stuff again.. im pretty disapionted that i accually wrote that piece Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smart Posted February 20, 2002 Share Posted February 20, 2002 nice seeing a couple kids in that chatroom... which one of you was jesuschrist? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smart Posted February 20, 2002 Share Posted February 20, 2002 Originally posted by im not witty smart, i used to think that you were a bastard when the topic of politics would come up, which it does often. but now... shhh, don't ruin my rep ;) uh... Shitfuck... technically, it said... "popularly elected legislative assemblies" but ok, we don't have to argue about the word... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
I Luv Roo Posted February 22, 2002 Share Posted February 22, 2002 Originally posted by Smart Uh, well I'm not sure what gun you're pointing at me but I think it's merely my support of organized government in the first place. I didn't say Cuba has an illegitimate govternment. I said Communism is an invalid system of govt. I will also say that what has happened, as far as governmental direction, in Cuba since it's 'liberation' has far more to do with Castro and his reaction to aggressive US foreign policy than anything in the 'little red book'... Roo - that is EXACTLY the reason, well, and perhaps a lingering mistrust of "white man's help"... I think we've had our share of infected blankets... Also, thankfully, it's gotten a bit quieter, but I almost had to put a hit on that ignorant mofo Zack from RATM who seemed to make reference to LP's plight in every fucking article. Using it as a stepping stone for his fame, paying lip service in the public eye and doing nothing substantial behind the scenes... (Hmmm, big donation to AIM or an Xbox... hmmm)... if anyone is interested in learning more about Leonard Peltier and the American Indian Movement, please read 'In the Spirit of Crazy Horse' by Peter Matthiessen. Then, if you feel motivated to help, send money to the Res. Even LP knows he has it better in jail than almost everyone on the reservation. He has better health care, 3 hots and a cot. His freedom will not cure the larger problem that AIM tried to address. NOBODY, least of all Peltier, wanted to shift the focus from the civil rights violations of an entire nation over to the civil rights violations of a single man. So, again, if you want to help, the way is monetary donations to, or if possible, actual volunteer help on the res. Indian children NEED SCHOOLBOOKS AND TEACHERS! Also, in this time of war, I urge you all to remember that, as an ethnic group, American Indians have volunteered at a greater rate for, lost more lives in, AND become heroes more often in every single war of the 20th century.* *except DesertStorm and the current operation whereby the incredibly small number of total wounded/killed presents a non-analagous statistic. (i.e. if only 4 people die and 2 of them were black, then they lost twice as many in the war, but...) Thanks. That's the kind of perspective I appreciate. As a white person who has always been in some company or another of Native Americans - I understand and have gathered that there is a fine line between respect and butting-in. So, suppose I did really, genuinely want to do something about the reservations, and to help the housing situations.... How do you avoid the whole 'white man's help" scenario in which you come off as condescending and all....while still making a contribution? What if you have no money to give, but still want to make a difference? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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