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Originally posted by HAL

To reiterate what IhateU and seeking are saying, it's stupid to bring the issue of race and class into a raceless, faceless, classless artform like graffiti. I have equally valued friends from poor homes, rich homes, anything in between, and all combinations of skin tone. I've had discussions with black friends about how they get shit for listening to rock music or moving in with a white roommate. People are equally stupid and biased, regardless of where they come from. I have issues with certain types of people. I'm not some hippie college asshole that carries his black friends around like trophies. I dislike and distrust people with a lot of money. I guess it's jealousy that I can't fly around the world and paint, or growing up dealing with those kids. I don't know. Touting an equal love for everyone is such a farce. Assimilating hip hop or whatever culture because it's "graffiti" is pretty stupid. Graffiti is whatever you want it to be. Graffiti might be hip hop and MC battles to you, but it's painting a wall or train for myself. That's the point that seeking and IhateU are trying to make to you. They might be coming at you really strong because a lot of us new school kids are sick and tired of graffiti being a part of something we've never been involved with. I never listened to hip hop very much. I guess some of it is good, but I didn't grow up listing to it. Why should I listen to it now? Basically, this graffiti message board is for graffiti, which may be a part of hip hop for you, but not for me. It kind of offends me that arwork is lumped together with pictures of guys with microphones. I hope my shit never ends up as a backdrop in a Jay-Z video.

 

 

if you read my post i said that graff kids don't have to listen to hip hop.

 

i'm not a four elementer you are steroetyping.

 

you have animosity for me for liking hip hop.

 

i understand that you are tired of being coupled with hip hop when you are not into it. i'm not ignorant.

 

my point is that i feel that you have an anger for the fact that mainstream american culture is hip hop dominated.

 

so the punk rock or i guess now the metalcore way is to hate mainstream culture.

 

but unfortuantly you are throwing the baby out with the bath water.

 

you hate me for liking hip hop. it makes you angry.

jay z makes you angry.

 

thats what i'm trying to get over to you "new school" kids.

all out of it is markteing and not human interaction without hip hop.

 

DRI was fucking week. Slayer was good.

 

jazz is good beatniks suck.

 

i am questioning your rebellion.

if aren't rebelling, cool. enjoy your hobby.

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heres my attempt. and if im off base, its most likely because your post was so unintelligable that i had no clue what you were trying to claim.

 

 

1. i wasnt showing i was down, i was showing that i speak from experience, while you speak from textbooks and pow-wows.

 

2.because your friends believe that when people make fun of hip hop style, that means that everyone that makes fun of them is a racist?

do i really even have to dispell this crock of shit? i would make fun of someone that had their pants hanging down to the ground, couldnt pronounce a single word correctly and talked about nothing but smoking blunts, but my jokes wouldnt be based on their skin color, it would based on the fact that they were a fucking moron. by your theory, if black people are to be offended by such jokes, that must mean that black people all dress, talk and are ignorant in the manner that i was mocking. i was making fun of an individual for individual ignorance, you made it a racial issue by insisting that i must be talking about ALL black people, since ALL black people resemble that profile.

now whos the racist?

 

3. this is where you really lost me. what the fuck does metal have to do with anything?

if people want to listen to metal, what the fuck does it matter? or are you insinuating that listening to metal automaticaly makes you ignorant and racist?

 

jesus christ bro, if i were you i would stop talking before you make yourself look like hitler.

 

you are the only person making sweeping racial accusations, the rest of us are mocking individuals.

 

 

ever see good will hunting?

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holy shit...... i just read your reply to hal.

 

you really truly have absolutely no fucking clue what your talking about, and your just making yourself look like a complete moron.

 

no one is angry because you like hip hop, because, NO ONE GIVES A FUCK ABOUT YOU.

 

i've been a hip hop dj since 93, tell me that im only replying to you because im 'angry' because you like hip hop.

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Originally posted by seeking innocence

i think i speak for everyone, when i say:

 

what the fuck are you talking about?

 

im trying to respond, and honestly, i have absolutely no clue what you were trying to say. perhaps you can condense that into something a little bit more coherent.

 

 

simplly put

 

-you attacked my downess. implying that you are down with more black people with me anyway. you expressed that you think i'm some bull shit intellectual.

 

 

i responded that the irony of this arguement is always going to be one of

us listing our experiences with black people to claim authority on this subject.

 

with that disclaimed i said that. because you questioned if i had much interaction or assimilation.

 

i have a large amount of black friends. for the past two years i have only lived with black peope. most of of my white friends didnot want to visit me wi lived on 7th and indianola in columbus, ohio. which is not really a bad neighborhood but because it is a black neighborhood its called a ghetto. this doesn't make me down.

 

you asked if i've ever lived in a black neigborhood. i don't want a trophy.

i'm answering you question if i've ever lived in a black neighborhood.

 

2-i mentioned upskie because in my city, the majority of the straight edge kids that listen to metal are big fans of upski.

 

i was underthe impression that within the disdain for mainstream culture usually their is a political base. at least it is in columbus, ohio.

 

i don't protest. i am not an activist. i just observe people.

 

so the upski mention was to say. "hey! its dope that you think america is bullshit. but you need to make sure that your cultural biases aren't accidently making you like the yuppies you hate.

 

but you don't care about that. so i was wrong in devloping that arguement.

 

3.i would agrue that the majority of metal core bands never play for the traditionaly metal crowd. the metals heads from the 80's.

they play for other neovo-metal crowds.

 

while copyrite, an emcee that i posted still battles on the corner and has traditional raps fans. as well as skateboarders and the like.

 

the implication is that he is not a postmodern creation but a culture constant.

 

4.i am not a strictly four element person. in the end its the pieces.

regardless of what the person painting them is in to.

 

i'm not going to ping pong back in forth about the rock steady crew.

 

my point was to say some writers like hip hop. and its and organic growth from the evolution of a local towns scene and not a media created market gimmick.

 

5. these two ideas, that the metalcore graff scene does not mix with metal. my view is that while some kids will like metal.. the mtalcore graff scene is just as corny as the white kid with the echo shirt.

they are both a scream a attempted downess.

 

my view is tha metal shit is an attmept to emulate working class white culture.

 

and not give a fuck about the people whose culture is being adopted.

much like white yuppie jazz fans.

 

this is not to say that working class white kids don't like metal and write graffit. but i think it an attempt for white cultural identity and a backlash against hip hop.

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Originally posted by seeking innocence

holy shit...... i just read your reply to hal.

 

you really truly have absolutely no fucking clue what your talking about, and your just making yourself look like a complete moron.

 

no one is angry because you like hip hop, because, NO ONE GIVES A FUCK ABOUT YOU.

 

i've been a hip hop dj since 93, tell me that im only replying to you because im 'angry' because you like hip hop.

 

i am not a four element bannerboy.

 

my point is that ihateyou startedthis arguement with.

"what a load of hip hop crap"...he also ended it with "yo! word son!"

 

now granted his name is i hate you and he is going to be insulting.

 

but its still was the trigger of the arguement.

 

so my fuck you back was to wave hip hop in his face.

 

he said fuck you and

i said fuck you back,

 

my mistake was staring an arguemnt instead of just yelling fuck you back.

 

if you are dj then maybe you can understand what i'm talking about in relation to anticon.

 

sole called elp a wigger cause he grew up in brooklyn has black friends.

 

sole is hated by most people in hip hop for being racist and classest.

 

 

 

i'm saying this applys to graffiti where kids are overly disrespectful

to urban culture.

 

 

did not ihatu you start this arguement?

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Originally posted by seeking innocence

heres my attempt. and if im off base, its most likely because your post was so unintelligable that i had no clue what you were trying to claim.

 

 

1. i wasnt showing i was down, i was showing that i speak from experience, while you speak from textbooks and pow-wows.

 

2.because your friends believe that when people make fun of hip hop style, that means that everyone that makes fun of them is a racist?

do i really even have to dispell this crock of shit? i would make fun of someone that had their pants hanging down to the ground, couldnt pronounce a single word correctly and talked about nothing but smoking blunts, but my jokes wouldnt be based on their skin color, it would based on the fact that they were a fucking moron. by your theory, if black people are to be offended by such jokes, that must mean that black people all dress, talk and are ignorant in the manner that i was mocking. i was making fun of an individual for individual ignorance, you made it a racial issue by insisting that i must be talking about ALL black people, since ALL black people resemble that profile.

now whos the racist?

 

3. this is where you really lost me. what the fuck does metal have to do with anything?

if people want to listen to metal, what the fuck does it matter? or are you insinuating that listening to metal automaticaly makes you ignorant and racist?

 

jesus christ bro, if i were you i would stop talking before you make yourself look like hitler.

 

you are the only person making sweeping racial accusations, the rest of us are mocking individuals.

 

 

ever see good will hunting?

 

i have a lot of friends that sag their pants and smoke blunts that arenot morons. its not all of black culture. its only a small part. but if you mcok them they would think you are saying because they smoke blunst and sag there pants they are stupid.

 

they would call you a stuck up racist bitch. even though they don't represent all of black culture.

 

just as they view scribbla as bizarro hip hop world.

 

and these are not nobodys either.

 

2.metal is cool..but mypoint is that is just as marketed as hip hop.

 

maybe i was overly attacking but my point is that

dorky white kids from do hip hop shit corny

dorky white kids do metal shit corny.

 

and they both do it in an attempt to be down with something they are not.

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hahaha, sole called el p a wigger as a joke mocking the whole fucking situation. two white guys that looked nearly identical, in hip hop, arguing over nothing. it had nothing to do with where el p grew up or any sort of racial anything. sole grew up poor, in a working class house, listening to the exact same hip hop that el p did. how can he be classest? dont talk about people that you dont know about.

 

 

your mistake was starting an argument that you cant hang with. your whole platform is built upon this idea of set racial 'profiles', ours are based on the fact that you are making things up.

 

'yo! word son' is now a racial insult? you really, really need to take the fucking goggles off bro.

 

its almost difficult to have an intelligent argument with you because the points you bring up are either ficticious, or completely irrelivent.

 

and no, the argument doesnt come down to who is more down, it comes down to who has a fucking clue what they're talking about. you are not that person.

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Originally posted by seeking innocence

why do you keep talking about white people listening to metal? who cares? what does that have to do with anything whatso ever? so what if its 'trendy' to listen to metal? i cant understand how that relates to anything that we're discussing.

 

i metion to say

 

some white kids use hip hop to validate themselves

 

some white kids use metal to validate themselves.

 

both is from marketing.

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Originally posted by laffinginside

 

i have a lot of friends that sag their pants and smoke blunts that arenot morons. its not all of black culture. its only a small part. but if you mcok them they would think you are saying because they smoke blunst and sag there pants they are stupid. i am sayingg because they talk about smoking blunts and sagging their pants that they are stupid. because of those things, their race is completely irrelivent.

 

they would call you a stuck up racist bitch. even though they don't represent all of black culture.

they would be wrong, and again, making the same assumptions that you are. i judge people based on who they are, not what color they were born. the fact that you cant accept that is further proof that you view everything in racial terms, making people into little more than their color, with no personal identities.

 

2.metal is cool..but mypoint is that is just as marketed as hip hop.

yes, and? sprite is just as marketed as sunny delight, would you like to start a thread about beverages as well?

 

maybe i was overly attacking but my point is that

dorky white kids from do hip hop shit corny

dorky white kids do metal shit corny.

 

huh?

 

and they both do it in an attempt to be down with something they are not.

 

yes, and? your arguing against some sort of ficticious opponent who is saying things that no one here is. no one said that white kids who listen to hip hop are fronting, no one said they were trying to be down. i dont know where the fuck your coming up with all this nonsense, but again, i implore you, shut the fuck up and save what little shred of integrity you may still have left.

 

 

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hey numbnuts

 

ok, even though you (laffinginside) have repeated yourself by saying the same thing in everyone of your posts,, i still need to read each sentence a couple times to even try to begin to understand your point. You make absolutely no sense whatso-fucking-ever.

You're a joke man.

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Originally posted by seeking innocence

hahaha, sole called el p a wigger as a joke mocking the whole fucking situation. two white guys that looked nearly identical, in hip hop, arguing over nothing. it had nothing to do with where el p grew up or any sort of racial anything. sole grew up poor, in a working class house, listening to the exact same hip hop that el p did. how can he be classest? dont talk about people that you dont know about.

 

 

your mistake was starting an argument that you cant hang with. your whole platform is built upon this idea of set racial 'profiles', ours are based on the fact that you are making things up.

 

'yo! word son' is now a racial insult? you really, really need to take the fucking goggles off bro.

 

its almost difficult to have an intelligent argument with you because the points you bring up are either ficticious, or completely irrelivent.

 

and no, the argument doesnt come down to who is more down, it comes down to who has a fucking clue what they're talking about. you are not that person.

 

 

if you think sole is not view, rightfully sole as a racist in hip hop then

you could not possible see where i am coming from.

 

i've discussed this with blueprint, vast and countless others,

 

they view sole as a racist peice of shit. they saw that any human being that would use the fact that an emcee' has black friends to disrespect has no business in hip hop.

 

if you don't think that him calling el-p a wigger is racist then..

of course you can't comprehend what i'm saying to.

 

and i find it amusing that you told me you dejayed.

 

your hip hop creditilty in nonexistant in my eyes now.

 

your an anticon guy...and you called me an intellectual..

you are friends with sole...bahahahahah

 

 

and my friend self, mike blast and others grew up with sole.

 

they told me he was even from portland, maine. they said he was a rich kid from outside maine.

have you heard northern exposure.

i;m from columbus so i don't need to mention the def jux shit

 

bahahahaha.

well best of luck to you. i hope the hip hop world works out for you.

 

i no longer need to debat without cause well..you are in that world that could'nt possibly see what i;m saying.

 

i had not idea i was in an anticon chatroom.

this kid really trys to act dominant.

 

 

 

 

look out for that new soul position record.

camu's hold the floor is banger.

 

seeking innocence who are you jay seargraves.

 

bitch

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uh, im so lost and confused it is unbeliveable...the only person i can understand is seeking, and not because i agree, but because he speaks in sentence form..you unintelligable moron...let me just comment on some of your ramblings and text book parables..

ONE) what does straight edge and upski have to do with each other..

TWO) "metal shit is an attmept to emulate working class white culture".

what the fuck are you talking about...then that means all hip hop is sung to preach about the black struggle?

THREE) "i have a lot of friends that sag their pants and smoke blunts that arenot morons. its not all of black culture. its only a small part. but if you mcok them they would think you are saying because they smoke blunst and sag there pants they are stupid.

they would call you a stuck up racist bitch. even though they don't represent all of black culture.

this makes no sence and has no point....i think many people that sag their pants look like morons..LOOK not are...and i also know many "stuck up" people who smoke pot...which is a "racist comment" mistro..or a fucked up generalization..stuck up racist bitch ahhahah christ

FOUR) "dorky white kids from do hip hop shit corny

dorky white kids do metal shit corny.

and they both do it in an attempt to be down with something they are not"

black people dont do this either???

FIVE) i've discussed this with blueprint

OH SHIT!!! you know blueprint..and not to mention he coralates the feeling of the whole hip hop movement(as you would call it im sure)

 

im sorry that i dont feel eletist or confused about my standing in life..im not latched on to a "cause"...im really sorry for you if you are viewing this word through the race goggles you picked up in cultural studies 101...and to diss seeeking cuz he is a ANTICON ooooooooooh..im sorry all your hiphoppin friends dont like white kids that made a name for themselves...and to think i liked MHZ...sounds like they have issues too from what you say... look out for the new sage francis its a banger!!!

im sorry i dont live in the rugged, socially unjust, very segregated(except in your case cuz you live with black people!!!!!!!!!), ghetto, hiphop mecca of Columbus...i guess my rich, racist, suburban, trust fund, college educated, coke snorting, metal listening white irish ass cant front on such a well rounded intelectual as your self....

im sorry im at a loss for words and energy to argue more intelegently but dude your so strange and unfocused it is hard to handle....its been fun good will..

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Originally posted by laffinginside

 

 

maybe be this is an inside joke [...] it just looked like you were dissing tm7.

 

 

In that guy's defense, I personally didn't really think he was dissing TM7.

But TM7 is one of my favorite crews so I just felt like diatribing for a moment in my above post.

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not to interrupt the hiphop-athon or anything, but that FLIP NSF is a legendary flick......he's been down with NSF way before me even....and he's been MIA forever...all nsf sends shouts to columbus.....SANO, ANON, DEL, FLIP ORSE, etc......where yall at? plus we bombed there once...cool town.

 

peace laffingside....tell ANON to holler at NECSKE....hed love to hear from him

 

one love from NSF MASSIVE

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Originally posted by cheerleader

not to interrupt the hiphop-athon or anything, but that FLIP NSF is a legendary flick......he's been down with NSF way before me even....and he's been MIA forever...all nsf sends shouts to columbus.....SANO, ANON, DEL, FLIP ORSE, etc......where yall at? plus we bombed there once...cool town.

 

peace laffingside....tell ANON to holler at NECSKE....hed love to hear from him

 

one love from NSF MASSIVE

 

http://www.omnimix.com/flics/history/sano_1.jpg'>

 

here is an old as flick of thieveland pioneer sano cst what nsf

 

anon said that he lost necske's contact info.

he said that if you could send him a email address or phone num

to anonshalo@hotmail.com he would love to get ahold of necs.

 

peace to nsf and all of pittsburgh.

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my 25 cents

 

Originally posted by seeking innocence

you sure tm7 isnt just one guy who does a bunch of pieces under different names? all these guys paint exactly alike and its a crew thing. but if ouija paints anything like joker, even though they're in the same crew, its biting. graffiti is a fucking joke.

 

okay children play nice, do like i do go off to a far distant land and get some different species sex of the humanoid kind, stay away from animals and never believe when she says that the blinking light in corner is from the security camera, those internet scandals are the worst....now seeking i assure that tm7 has many players that lace the style and thats wildstyle...are you telling me that that minimalist style you and your transcend lords do aren`t a direct derivitive of futura 2000 so does that make yall biters? if you really want to find out how tm7 gets down lets battle, i`ll arrange my squad and you arrange yours...no hidin behind a computer, just can control vs can control and let the people decide, aerosol art isn`t a fuckin joke it`s a great artform, it`s the idiot that talk shit and can`t back it up that`s the joke....one

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holy blow things way out of perportions bat man!

 

did you actully read my post? how about the reply later on? im not dissing you guys, im dissing the same shit talkers that you were. my point was that all of the tm7 stuff posted, was incredibly similar, which i have no problem with, yet if someone does anything like joker, no matter how closely related they are, they are called a biter. i was dissing critics, not you.

i am not in transcend, not even close. nor do i paint a 'minimalist' style. nor does anyone in transcend other than perhaps joker, which go's to show that your clearly jjust peacocking for a challenge. regardless, my comments, no matter how eroniously taken, should not reflect on them at all. i was using them simple as an example of people that shit talked about them.

i respect the time you've put in, and im not trying to pick a fight with you or your crew. i came up admiring your guys work and that doesnt change now. your attitude however, i could easily do without.

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I don't listen to metal. Don't assume that any white graffiti writer not into hip hop listens to metal or hardcore. Now you're stereotyping me. I feel like the stuff I'm saying is getting misinterpreted to be a bad thing. I personally don't really like going to a graffiti jam and listening to DJs all day long, because I don't like that stuff. My solution is to bring headphones and listen to my music, which happens to be mostly instrumental or folksy. There's some rock overtones, but nothing close to heavy metal. Basically I don't feel a part of hip hop, and lumping graffiti together with it seems kinda wierd, since i paint like it's a full time job and spend absolutle no time listening to the music, watching breakers, or writing down rhymes. Graffiti is purely an artform to me, and tying it in with a hiphop lifestyle belittles it. Graffiti is so much broader than hip hop. Hiphop is a part of graffiti. ot the other way around. Lots of writers listen to hip hop. Lots of writers listen to any kind of music you can think of. I'm sure some writers listen to country music. Who knows. After years and years of looking through magazines and graffiti related stuff and having it be nothing but hip hop beats and hip hop articles, it gets tiring. If I put out my own magazine, it would just be graffiti. Graffiti is big enough and bold enough to hold it's own without the support of another lifestyle. Graffiti is it's own lifestyle. Any writer that lives and breathes graf will tell you. I'm sure you know it yourself.

 

Sorry I rambled.

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Originally posted by HAL

I don't listen to metal. Don't assume that any white graffiti writer not into hip hop listens to metal or hardcore. Now you're stereotyping me. I feel like the stuff I'm saying is getting misinterpreted to be a bad thing. I personally don't really like going to a graffiti jam and listening to DJs all day long, because I don't like that stuff. My solution is to bring headphones and listen to my music, which happens to be mostly instrumental or folksy. There's some rock overtones, but nothing close to heavy metal. Basically I don't feel a part of hip hop, and lumping graffiti together with it seems kinda wierd, since i paint like it's a full time job and spend absolutle no time listening to the music, watching breakers, or writing down rhymes. Graffiti is purely an artform to me, and tying it in with a hiphop lifestyle belittles it. Graffiti is so much broader than hip hop. Hiphop is a part of graffiti. ot the other way around. Lots of writers listen to hip hop. Lots of writers listen to any kind of music you can think of. I'm sure some writers listen to country music. Who knows. After years and years of looking through magazines and graffiti related stuff and having it be nothing but hip hop beats and hip hop articles, it gets tiring. If I put out my own magazine, it would just be graffiti. Graffiti is big enough and bold enough to hold it's own without the support of another lifestyle. Graffiti is it's own lifestyle. Any writer that lives and breathes graf will tell you. I'm sure you know it yourself.

 

Sorry I rambled.

 

i agree.

 

i have no problem with that.

just if someone tells me to fuck off because i like hip hop.

i will tell them to fuck off back.

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yo seeking i stand corrected, i didn`t get a chance to read the post post`s, my bad, i just responded with macho aerosol arrogance....grrrrrrr....but you have to admit peacocks do have pretty colors and get madddddd pussy and isn`t what this about?...as far as all the racial shit goes that shit is played, we got soooooo many other problems in this limited time called life to harp on the bullshit, get back to posting pixs, if you feel that a certain crews work has a sameness to it and that bothers you, avoid it like plague and njoy someones else that turns you on, bcuz by stating the obvious it opens the worm can to long boring blabbering post like this....and not unless your gonna go get your peacock on (perferrably with molly premium), your just comin off as the roger ebert of aerosol art....uno

 

roler one, thechocolatewhiteman....ThisMighthurt 7

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tm7 madness

 

Originally posted by KELP TM7

 

Hey, this is KELP tappin maddass 7, I understand what you're saying, but

Ces is also a tm7 cat, and roler taught him how to really get loose (check ces pieces before he got down w/tm7, not so hot), and roler, tich, and ivory helped me develop, so i see what you mean. to be honest, though, i think wands stuff is way more organic than ces. his stuff is like razor edges, and wand kind of flows. So, since i'm 33, i'm not chomping anything except what came before me. peace, k

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