laffinginside Posted February 11, 2002 Author Share Posted February 11, 2002 Originally posted by IHATEU what a long pile of hip hoppin shit...the zook train is fresh as long as its in the early 90s....and that last HUGE wand flick is a good peice but i just cant give credit to some recycled shit....oh and yo! dat mc such and such served mc this that and the 3rd at scrapple jam kid, dats my word... what is is about black people and people that have black friends do you exactly have a problem with? you dont have to listen to hip hop. but having this big of issue with seems to stem from some sort of resentment towards african american culture and its influence on mainstream american culture. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
backcountrywriter Posted February 11, 2002 Share Posted February 11, 2002 clever name, nice post Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IzzeWST Posted February 11, 2002 Share Posted February 11, 2002 Kelp and Wand rock hard....ill post Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
laffinginside Posted February 11, 2002 Author Share Posted February 11, 2002 fear of a black blanet Originally posted by IHATEU what a long pile of hip hoppin shit...the zook train is fresh as long as its in the early 90s....and that last HUGE wand flick is a good peice but i just cant give credit to some recycled shit....oh and yo! dat mc such and such served mc this that and the 3rd at scrapple jam kid, dats my word... here some more hip hop shit to make you angry bout losing you job at the plant or that your little sister likes to fuck tupac fans. http://www.mhzsite.com/flics/wieghtless.jpg'> the mhz ...don't you hate how they are poisng in front of of graffiti. http://www.mhzsite.com/flics/copyjakki.jpg'> jakki is ready to put his black cock in your sister. don't you hate his crucifix. he refers to his car as his "whip" http://www.mhzsite.com/flics/5weathers.jpg'> this is the weathermen. doesn't make you angry that white dude like el-p can rock a mo hawk and still get love. do you remeber when slayer was on def jam? http://www.mhzsite.com/flics/elp.jpg'> camu and elp http://www.mhzsite.com/flics/iriscience.jpg'> this is camu, copywrite, iriscinence, and someones hypeman. do you just hate intergration? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IHATEU Posted February 11, 2002 Share Posted February 11, 2002 hey fuck face...i like some hip hop but i dont feel the need to post dudes battling!!!!!!!!! im good friends with one of the individuals you posted...im sorry i dont need hip hop in my life to have something to say im part of..what the fuck is the point of posting dudes on stage here...obsesed? go to some other forum to show niggaz you were at scribble or some hic show in ohio...you god damn hillbilly, fuck you..trying to pullcards on my oppinion...and if you wanna talk jobs im not the one with a fucking shitty website...im comfortable with my status in life with out screaming some music genre to feel like im "in"...get off my dick faggot so i can get back to fucking YOUR sister.....cute photo of the dudes on the beach too, you lubing up your cock dick riding scenester.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest infared Posted February 11, 2002 Share Posted February 11, 2002 wow, heads are angry...peace to el producto and def jux Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
seeking Posted February 11, 2002 Share Posted February 11, 2002 being from ohio and writing verb, unless you're the original verb is just blasphemous in my opinion. you sure tm7 isnt just one guy who does a bunch of pieces under different names? all these guys paint exactly alike and its a crew thing. but if ouija paints anything like joker, even though they're in the same crew, its biting. graffiti is a fucking joke. while i dont see the overwhelming problem with posting rappers, i also dont see how not wanting to see rappers in the middle of a graffiti post makes someone anti 'african american'... thats just retarded. do you complain about how you get shitty service in restaurants because your black (even though your a white guy?) el p might rock a mohawk and still be hip hop, but hes not as hip hop as me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
laffinginside Posted February 11, 2002 Author Share Posted February 11, 2002 Originally posted by IHATEU hey fuck face...i like some hip hop but i dont feel the need to post dudes battling!!!!!!!!! im good friends with one of the individuals you posted...im sorry i dont need hip hop in my life to have something to say im part of..what the fuck is the point of posting dudes on stage here...obsesed? go to some other forum to show niggaz you were at scribble or some hic show in ohio...you god damn hillbilly, fuck you..trying to pullcards on my oppinion...and if you wanna talk jobs im not the one with a fucking shitty website...im comfortable with my status in life with out screaming some music genre to feel like im "in"...get off my dick faggot so i can get back to fucking YOUR sister.....cute photo of the dudes on the beach too, you lubing up your cock dick riding scenester.... i hate you is handle for someone you is trying to to show the world that they are cynical. its teenage insane clown posse agnst. i put the pictures of rappers up to piss you off. when people make intnetial swipes at hip hop it seems to me that they are upset that when they repsonded to the four element marketing intially they walked up to black dudes like this "HEY I LOVE DEL THE FUNKEE HOMOSAPIEN" the black dudes ingnored them so they got bitter it went from "this guyz don't know what the real hip hop is to" fuck hip hop. if you don't like hip hop fine. but when mock hip hop with a crude ebonical on page with rush limbaugh i think you have issues. and as far as being hics from ohio. half those rappers livein ohio. i'm just trying be offensive as you. it looks like it worked. i didn't even have to abadon punk rock when green day got popular. i love you Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
seeking Posted February 11, 2002 Share Posted February 11, 2002 ihateu might be a reference to ignorant teen agnst..... if it werent a highly respected crew. seeking/faith evans is ugly as hell Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IHATEU Posted February 11, 2002 Share Posted February 11, 2002 hate you is handle for someone you is trying to to show the world that they are cynical. its teenage insane clown posse agnst. THIS IS JUST DUMB.... i put the pictures of rappers up to piss you off. NO YOU DID NOT..YOU JOCK THEM AND THINK YOULL GET YOUR "PROPS" FOR POSTING THE DICKS YOU SUCK when people make intnetial swipes at hip hop it seems to me that they are upset that when they repsonded to the four element marketing intially they walked up to black dudes like this "HEY I LOVE DEL THE FUNKEE HOMOSAPIEN" the black dudes ingnored them so they got bitter it went from "this guyz don't know what the real hip hop is to" YOU SHOULD WRITE FOR THE SOURCE... fuck hip hop. YEAH... If you don't like hip hop fine. THANKS.... but when mock hip hop with a crude ebonical on page with rush limbaugh i think you have issues. AGAIN WRITE FOR THE SOURCE and as far as being hics from ohio. half those rappers livein ohio. THERE NOT HICS YOU ARE IDIOT i'm just trying be offensive as you. NOT GONNA HAPPEN... it looks like it worked. NO IM LAUGHING AT YOU HIC i didn't even have to abadon punk rock when green day got popular. UH NEITHER DID I i love you YEAH YOU DO QUEER... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
laffinginside Posted February 11, 2002 Author Share Posted February 11, 2002 Originally posted by seeking innocence being from ohio and writing verb, unless you're the original verb is just blasphemous in my opinion. you sure tm7 isnt just one guy who does a bunch of pieces under different names? all these guys paint exactly alike and its a crew thing. but if ouija paints anything like joker, even though they're in the same crew, its biting. graffiti is a fucking joke. while i dont see the overwhelming problem with posting rappers, i also dont see how not wanting to see rappers in the middle of a graffiti post makes someone anti 'african american'... thats just retarded. do you complain about how you get shitty service in restaurants because your black (even though your a white guy?) el p might rock a mohawk and still be hip hop, but hes not as hip hop as me. when i take black friends to parties and people make snide comments and mock the way the speak, they claim racsim. i am white. being white and liviing whit non white people clues me in to how many things white people do are felt by nonwhites. this isn't an i'm done its a statement. i'm saying this. upski said recently during his speech at carnegi melon that white activists do not know how badly they treta black activists. he said that liberal white people have cause many of black friends to quit politics because of the racist shit they say and do without knowing. this isn't a push for white guilt. i just think their is a lot more racism going on within art oreinted white sub culture that noone wants to address because it affect their way of life. white people who are against racism but won't combat it when in convenience's them are completelyaiding the systemaatic white supremcey that is in place by no of our original choise. if you want to call me a white dude trying be down, you an debate this with roommate when he wakes up. if you need to hear this from a black person because your interations are limited to you can only be cynical about a differant perspective i will have black person argue this with tommorrow. if you look at his wording of "ihateu" has problem with hip hop. his name is "ihateu". i would imagine that would include hip hop. he did not say "what does this music have to do with graffit. stick the graff. hge mocked ebonic implying that if you are black or hang out with black people that you are automatically stupid. he also called me a hillbilly and hick. that make him classest. in the book redkneck manifesto by jim goad predicted that white hipsters after not being accepted by african-americans because white hipsters have an outsider and class barrier with the section african american culture they move on to working class white culture. he predicted just as the the white hipster might try to dress like black people and listen to their jazz the would move on and try to look and drees like white working class peoples country and metal. he said just as they had made minstrel show characters of balc people they would do the same for poor white people. he said that they still would use terms like redkeck and never fully assimimlate or really give two shit about working class white folks. this is valid because i see the backlash of hip hop in graffiti and the move towards metal be arrival of jim goad's theorys. so when someone has hugeissues with hip hop, which the wording and tone "i hateu"'s post did, he obviously has a large amount animosity of hip hop. and the minstrel show moking of slang inforced that it is beyond a simple desire to only se graffiti in apost. coupled with the fact that poeple post picture of naked women, dead animals, banner, retarded people and other non graffiti images. as far as tm7 its crew that started in 1977. (look at the cover of subway art)and hast lasted until now boasting a roster that include ces, yes2, web, ivory, tich, wands and many more. they have been documented in subway art, igt, on the go, 12ozprophet, scribble and so forth. those are many eras of graffiti. so i think to mock them is somewhat disprectfull. i give props to any crew that has been around for 25 years. cope2 had yes2 speak on them in the interview with ces in mass appeal. and all those pieces i posted were done by two mombers that live in ohio. i am from thought that one should respect what came before them. if tm7 has historical value then i think they should be documented. to be honest i don't understand people that diss pioneers. and to answer you query about verbs, he live in cleveland and is a friend of mine. someone asked for me to post his flcik and i did. i didn't choose his name, using can reflect on him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
laffinginside Posted February 11, 2002 Author Share Posted February 11, 2002 Originally posted by laffinginside i hate you is handle for someone you is trying to to show the world that they are cynical. its teenage insane clown posse agnst. i put the pictures of rappers up to piss you off. black people make you angry. you got mad. when people make genric blamket swipes at hip hop it seems to me that they are upset that when they repsonded to the four element marketing intially they walked up to black dudes like this "HEY I LOVE DEL THE FUNKEE HOMOSAPIEN" the black dudes ingnored them so they got bitter it went from "this guyz don't know what the real hip hop is to" fuck hip hop. if you don't like hip hop fine. but when mock hip hop with a crude ebonical on page with rush limbaugh i think you have issues. and as far as being hics from ohio. half those rappers livein ohio. i'm just trying be offensive as you. it looks like it worked. i didn't even have to abadon punk rock when green day got popular. i love you Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sixteenvandals Posted February 11, 2002 Share Posted February 11, 2002 whether you like hiphop or not is beside the point. if this post was graffiti writers standing around posing, then i would dis it. the point is- who cares to see some guys posing!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IHATEU Posted February 11, 2002 Share Posted February 11, 2002 UH DUDE YOU HAVE WAAAAAAY TO MUCH TIME ON YOUR HANDS..THIS IS FOR ME NOT A RACE ISSUE..YOU SEEM LIKE YOU ARE THE ONE WITH ISSUES...QUOTEING OBSCURE PASSAGES FROM BOOKS I HAVE READ OVER 3YEARS AGO DOES NOT IMPRESS ME...THE FACT THAT YOU LIVE WITH 'BLACK' PEOPLE DOES NOT EITHER(black is not a poloticially corect term scollar).. SO GET EM ON HERE..THEY WONT TELL ME SOMETHING I CAN NOT FIGURE OUT JUST BY READING YOUR BLAB ON RACIAL EQUALITY AND THE STRUGGLE OF CLASSES...YOU WENT WAY TO DEEP FOR ME GASSING YOUR ASS..IF YOU WOULD LIKE TO CONTINUE A DEBATE AND LIST OUR CREDENTIALS TO EACH OTHER AND WHO IS MORE DOWN WITH THE BLACK CULTURE..YOU WIN. I ONLY LIVED WITH "THEM"(was that racist) IN COLLEGE SO I GUESS IM NO MATCH FOR YOUR SOCIALLY BINDING ASS...OOOOOOOOOH AND YOU SAW WILIAM WIMSATT SPEAK....WOW, NOW YOU HAVE ALL THE ANSWERS TO EQUALITY AND GOVERNMENT..YOUR A JOKE...CHRIST Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
laffinginside Posted February 11, 2002 Author Share Posted February 11, 2002 Originally posted by seeking innocence ihateu might be a reference to ignorant teen agnst..... if it werent a highly respected crew. seeking/faith evans is ugly as hell well that ignorant on my part.. i don't think faith evens is ugly i just think she dresses the same in every video. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
laffinginside Posted February 11, 2002 Author Share Posted February 11, 2002 Originally posted by IHATEU UH DUDE YOU HAVE WAAAAAAY TO MUCH TIME ON YOUR HANDS..THIS IS FOR ME NOT A RACE ISSUE..YOU SEEM LIKE YOU ARE THE ONE WITH ISSUES...QUOTEING OBSCURE PASSAGES FROM BOOKS I HAVE READ OVER 3YEARS AGO DOES NOT IMPRESS ME...THE FACT THAT YOU LIVE WITH 'BLACK' PEOPLE DOES NOT EITHER(black is not a poloticially corect term scollar).. SO GET EM ON HERE..THEY WONT TELL ME SOMETHING I CAN NOT FIGURE OUT JUST BY READING YOUR BLAB ON RACIAL EQUALITY AND THE STRUGGLE OF CLASSES...YOU WENT WAY TO DEEP FOR ME GASSING YOUR ASS..IF YOU WOULD LIKE TO CONTINUE A DEBATE AND LIST OUR CREDENTIALS TO EACH OTHER AND WHO IS MORE DOWN WITH THE BLACK CULTURE..YOU WIN. I ONLY LIVED WITH "THEM"(was that racist) IN COLLEGE SO I GUESS IM NO MATCH FOR YOUR SOCIALLY BINDING ASS...OOOOOOOOOH AND YOU SAW WILIAM WIMSATT SPEAK....WOW, NOW YOU HAVE ALL THE ANSWERS TO EQUALITY AND GOVERNMENT..YOUR A JOKE...CHRIST i wasn't name dropping upski i was citing a point he made. i was quoting a book we both read 3years ago because it was valied. i'm just presenting the idea you have issues. which you did not address. it wasn't the credinaitals it was points. but this i just a fuck you fest so.. the idea that you have seen and heard everything so know you are just an asshole is just annoying. this is the internet so in away it my fault for arguing with you. it just the whole i read celine, and listen to big black thing has become corny. i don't care if you angry. enjoy life or get worked about ludichris and george bush if you want. type in caps to show me you are reallly angry. more props. die alone. and bless me with more of that lee ving playboy. shit impressed me when i was 12. tood bad that college did you no good you just dissed me. you didn't debate. but its all good i'll benice to you when i shop my local record store. you can shoot all the mean galres cause pop culture got you down. stay up pimp.!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
laffinginside Posted February 11, 2002 Author Share Posted February 11, 2002 Originally posted by sixteenvandals whether you like hiphop or not is beside the point. if this post was graffiti writers standing around posing, then i would dis it. the point is- who cares to see some guys posing!! thats reasonable. people post pictures of naked girls, dead animals, retarded people and the lot. if its boring to you ican't argue with that. some people liked the pictures.. if you read further up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
laffinginside Posted February 11, 2002 Author Share Posted February 11, 2002 Originally posted by IHATEU hate you is handle for someone you is trying to to show the world that they are cynical. its teenage insane clown posse agnst. THIS IS JUST DUMB.... i put the pictures of rappers up to piss you off. NO YOU DID NOT..YOU JOCK THEM AND THINK YOULL GET YOUR "PROPS" FOR POSTING THE DICKS YOU SUCK when people make intnetial swipes at hip hop it seems to me that they are upset that when they repsonded to the four element marketing intially they walked up to black dudes like this "HEY I LOVE DEL THE FUNKEE HOMOSAPIEN" the black dudes ingnored them so they got bitter it went from "this guyz don't know what the real hip hop is to" YOU SHOULD WRITE FOR THE SOURCE... i would. there hip hop cverage uskc but most of the articles are pretty good. xxxl it the better of the mainstream rags. fuck hip hop. ok.. YEAH... If you don't like hip hop fine. THANKS.... but when mock hip hop with a crude ebonical on page with rush limbaugh i think you have issues. AGAIN WRITE FOR THE SOURCE and as far as being hics from ohio. half those rappers livein ohio. THERE NOT HICS YOU ARE IDIOT i'm just trying be offensive as you. NOT GONNA HAPPEN... it looks like it worked. NO IM LAUGHING AT YOU HIC i didn't even have to abadon punk rock when green day got popular. UH NEITHER DID I i love you YEAH YOU DO QUEER... when i posted that jakki was going to fuck your sister. i meant he was going to fuck your sister. i'll be a hic and work for the source. the source has good article outside of the ones about the rappers. xxl is better though. its run by the ego trip dudes. you'll be drunk reading feeling superior because you read john fante and everyone else is stuck on bukowski. don't worry i'll still drink you bourban and funk that girl you beat off about. pease to the bar flies steve albini whut whut Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
laffinginside Posted February 11, 2002 Author Share Posted February 11, 2002 http://www.mhzsite.com/flics/copytage98.jpg'> i thought you might like this one. can i have a cigerette? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IHATEU Posted February 11, 2002 Share Posted February 11, 2002 uh..im totally lost now...you make no sence..and i dont drink or have a sister....so keep yapping and siting,im done...and the caps was on mistake, dont flatter yourself... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
laffinginside Posted February 11, 2002 Author Share Posted February 11, 2002 http://hammer.prohosting.com/~cgraff/ropas3.jpg'> ropas http://hammer.prohosting.com/~cgraff/jekcas.jpg'> jek bsa cas http://www.omnimix.com/flics/flix/anon-keas_1.jpg'> anon bsa knk io keas bsa knk io http://hammer.prohosting.com/~cgraff/anon1.jpg'> anon some images www.omnimix.com others http.//hammer.prohosting.com/~cgraff/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clever Name Posted February 11, 2002 Share Posted February 11, 2002 Originally posted by seeking innocence you sure tm7 isnt just one guy who does a bunch of pieces under different names? all these guys paint exactly alike and its a crew thing. but if ouija paints anything like joker, even though they're in the same crew, its biting. graffiti is a fucking joke. Yeah but the TM7 guys -- at least from what I've seen -- are up front about the fact that they try to paint alike, just like Joker or Ouija will be up front about the fact that they try to be really original -- so they're both staying true to themselves. But there are some subtle differences in the different TM7 writers' styles: Wand has a loose flow and changes his letters a lot, Ivory goes bigger and bolder (like Seen) with connections/arrows/pulls going all over the place, Tich's style looks tight with harder letters, Yes2 has his own little touches and more "evil" looking letters, Web's pieces usually look pretty straight forward (that "W" that he does a lot), Ces brings a T-kid and Vet-influenced flavor into his stuff, Roler is classic, etc... I like TM7 stuff a lot, it's kinda nice to see a bunch of them get on a wall together and flip each piece with that style, just like it's dope to see the Transcend crew do something interesting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
seeking Posted February 11, 2002 Share Posted February 11, 2002 my oh my, looks like we have a freshman poli-sci major on our hands. you learn all this shit in 'race relations 101'? you and your rhetoric is such a joke, its almost impossible to take seriously. first of all, the majority of the rappers you posted, where white, so it couldnt really have been a slam at black people. secondly, to claim that 'hip hop' is still a rebelious black art form, in this day and age, is complete nonsense. hip hop is so assimilated into american culture that any disliking of it is likely based off either general disdain for the music, or simple ignornace, not because the person has a problem with 'black people.' also, trying to claim that there is some racist insurgance within graffiti, to move away from the '4 elements' credo, and embrace metal is complete uninformed ignorance. go look at your oft referenced copy of subway art. look at the pictures of seen and the black sabbath patches on his jean jacket. graffiti has always existed in the hardcore scenes all across america, this is not a new 'phenomenon.' there is no push to embrace metal, there is a push to embrace the spirit of writing, which is arguably embodied more in metal and hardcore, than it is in the majority of todays hip hop. its unarguable however that graffiti is practiced by more whites than other races, so it would stand to reason that the music traditionaly associated with white culture (rock and roll), would also meld with their practice of graffiti. an art form, incidently, that has absolutely nothing what so ever to do with race. it has to do with expression and in a large part, frustration. black folks dont have a monopoly on frustration. no matter what w.e.b. dubois, upski or eldrdige cleaver might like to tell you. as far as your claims of how we as white people have no idea what its like to be black, all i can say is; speak for yourself cracker. you dont know anything about me, ihateu, or anyone else that your making assumptions about. i know exactly what it feels like to be stared at, distrusted and spoken down to just because of my race. if, being a white person, you had ever spent any amount of time in predominantly black neighborhoods, you would know exactly how it feels. how many times have you brought a black friend to your parents house and have youd dad say "what the fuck you bringin a nigger into my house for?" even if just in jest? guess how many times ive heard "what the fuck you hangin out with that white boy for?" more than you im sure. it would seem that its you that really has no idea of how race relations actually work in america. for every bullshit upski quote you have, ive got a life experience to speak from. for every book you've read, ive got a bruise from the situation you speak of. save your intellectual nonsense for your classroom, cause here, in this arena, it means shit. if i need to hear it from a black person, you'll bring one in tomorrow? is this fucking show and tell? 'hey everybody, look at my black friend, he will tell you how your racist, but im down.' your a fucking joke. if you want to get something usefull out of your upski books, read the chapter on being white and 'special.' your not special because you have black friends. your not more 'down,' you just try harder to be something your not and think that because you claim to be able to relate to others problems, that that makes you some sort of racial philanthropist. your a sucker. all this peacocking makes you look like a phony, and not just to us, but to the rest of the world as well. think about this shit the next time you try arguing about the plight of the black man in america. no one gives a shit what you have to say, because unless you're repeating someone elses words, you have no idea what your talking about it. you havent lived it. yes, thats an assumption, but its one im confident in as being the truth. if you had lived it, you wouldnt be recycling quotes from the 'great white equalizer' (upski.) i think we can safely change your change from 'laffinginside' to 'laffedat.' Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
seeking Posted February 11, 2002 Share Posted February 11, 2002 christ almighty... do you people even try to understand the words you read, or do you just look for arguments to lose? i wasnt dissing tm7, i was dissing graffiti critics, specificly very pro-east coast critics that constantly speak out against anything that doesnt look 'traditional'. i dont care if yes goes bigger than my mothers uncle, the fact of the matter is that they paint incredibly similar, yet if i was to paint anything like joker, despite the fact that we are friends, i would be torn apart. hence the last sentence "graffiti is a fucking joke." im realizing though, its not graffiti, its writers that are the joke. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clever Name Posted February 11, 2002 Share Posted February 11, 2002 I see what you mean. I think what you're saying about how people will perceive "biting," be it of joker or ivory, is just a result of most writers not quite being used to the stuff joker does, and still kind of clinging to the established styles (like ivory). In other words; tons of writers have gone the traditional route already, but only a few have taken a different direction like joker has, so when someone sees something "different," the only quick frame of reference that comes to mind is joker, which starts a "biting argument." Writers might see an ivory bite as being "traditional" and a joker bite as "bitten." I've confused myself. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
seeking Posted February 11, 2002 Share Posted February 11, 2002 i think its a result of writers being dumb as fuck.... but that could be just me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IHATEU Posted February 11, 2002 Share Posted February 11, 2002 i wish i had the patience that seeking has to write all that...im in full agreement but i can not write all that with out either being a asshole or snaping my keyboard in half...now who is laffinginside...SCHOOLED... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest HAL Posted February 12, 2002 Share Posted February 12, 2002 To reiterate what IhateU and seeking are saying, it's stupid to bring the issue of race and class into a raceless, faceless, classless artform like graffiti. I have equally valued friends from poor homes, rich homes, anything in between, and all combinations of skin tone. I've had discussions with black friends about how they get shit for listening to rock music or moving in with a white roommate. People are equally stupid and biased, regardless of where they come from. I have issues with certain types of people. I'm not some hippie college asshole that carries his black friends around like trophies. I dislike and distrust people with a lot of money. I guess it's jealousy that I can't fly around the world and paint, or growing up dealing with those kids. I don't know. Touting an equal love for everyone is such a farce. Assimilating hip hop or whatever culture because it's "graffiti" is pretty stupid. Graffiti is whatever you want it to be. Graffiti might be hip hop and MC battles to you, but it's painting a wall or train for myself. That's the point that seeking and IhateU are trying to make to you. They might be coming at you really strong because a lot of us new school kids are sick and tired of graffiti being a part of something we've never been involved with. I never listened to hip hop very much. I guess some of it is good, but I didn't grow up listing to it. Why should I listen to it now? Basically, this graffiti message board is for graffiti, which may be a part of hip hop for you, but not for me. It kind of offends me that arwork is lumped together with pictures of guys with microphones. I hope my shit never ends up as a backdrop in a Jay-Z video. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
laffinginside Posted February 12, 2002 Author Share Posted February 12, 2002 Originally posted by seeking innocence my oh my, looks like we have a freshman poli-sci major on our hands. you learn all this shit in 'race relations 101'? you and your rhetoric is such a joke, its almost impossible to take seriously. first of all, the majority of the rappers you posted, where white, so it couldnt really have been a slam at black people. secondly, to claim that 'hip hop' is still a rebelious black art form, in this day and age, is complete nonsense. hip hop is so assimilated into american culture that any disliking of it is likely based off either general disdain for the music, or simple ignornace, not because the person has a problem with 'black people.' also, trying to claim that there is some racist insurgance within graffiti, to move away from the '4 elements' credo, and embrace metal is complete uninformed ignorance. go look at your oft referenced copy of subway art. look at the pictures of seen and the black sabbath patches on his jean jacket. graffiti has always existed in the hardcore scenes all across america, this is not a new 'phenomenon.' there is no push to embrace metal, there is a push to embrace the spirit of writing, which is arguably embodied more in metal and hardcore, than it is in the majority of todays hip hop. its unarguable however that graffiti is practiced by more whites than other races, so it would stand to reason that the music traditionaly associated with white culture (rock and roll), would also meld with their practice of graffiti. an art form, incidently, that has absolutely nothing what so ever to do with race. it has to do with expression and in a large part, frustration. black folks dont have a monopoly on frustration. no matter what w.e.b. dubois, upski or eldrdige cleaver might like to tell you. as far as your claims of how we as white people have no idea what its like to be black, all i can say is; speak for yourself cracker. you dont know anything about me, ihateu, or anyone else that your making assumptions about. i know exactly what it feels like to be stared at, distrusted and spoken down to just because of my race. if, being a white person, you had ever spent any amount of time in predominantly black neighborhoods, you would know exactly how it feels. how many times have you brought a black friend to your parents house and have youd dad say "what the fuck you bringin a nigger into my house for?" even if just in jest? guess how many times ive heard "what the fuck you hangin out with that white boy for?" more than you im sure. it would seem that its you that really has no idea of how race relations actually work in america. for every bullshit upski quote you have, ive got a life experience to speak from. for every book you've read, ive got a bruise from the situation you speak of. save your intellectual nonsense for your classroom, cause here, in this arena, it means shit. if i need to hear it from a black person, you'll bring one in tomorrow? is this fucking show and tell? 'hey everybody, look at my black friend, he will tell you how your racist, but im down.' your a fucking joke. if you want to get something usefull out of your upski books, read the chapter on being white and 'special.' your not special because you have black friends. your not more 'down,' you just try harder to be something your not and think that because you claim to be able to relate to others problems, that that makes you some sort of racial philanthropist. your a sucker. all this peacocking makes you look like a phony, and not just to us, but to the rest of the world as well. think about this shit the next time you try arguing about the plight of the black man in america. no one gives a shit what you have to say, because unless you're repeating someone elses words, you have no idea what your talking about it. you havent lived it. yes, thats an assumption, but its one im confident in as being the truth. if you had lived it, you wouldnt be recycling quotes from the 'great white equalizer' (upski.) i think we can safely change your change from 'laffinginside' to 'laffedat.' the irony of your arguement that you still feel the need to show me that you are down with more black people than me. not that this means shit. i the past two years of my life i have only lived with black people. not out of anything other than thats who ended up living with when it was time to move. this is shit they talk about. my go to vegan potluck's with me, we go to indie rock bars, my friends have gone to scribble. they all say that they take the all out attempt to mock hip hop is a mocking of how they dress and talk. so that personal attack is out the water. this beyond that and shows an anti hip hop bias. the upski quote was because I thought the metal/hardcore culture also involved activism. maybe my city is differant but all the straight edge vegan kids here are political. they all support upski. they value his ideas the reason i posted mostly white rappers is because i have seen a general disdain for white kids have assimilated to black culture. so it was to bother you. and as far as the metal vs hip hop arguement. i don't think you have to listen hip hop to write. black sabbath is dope. as is slayer. i'm not feeling the metalcore shit. but i know many kids that are into hardcore that did not listen to metallica, slayer, cnadlebox and all that shit in 1989. they did not listen to that shit in 1994. but know they are full fledged metal heads. do you remebr when the metal/punk crossover movement was straight up dissed by people like jello biafra? also i can only speak for the metalcore bands in my city but they never perform in front of a traditional metal audience ever. they only perform in front of other metalcore kids. while all those rappers i've pictured still perform in front of traditional hip hop audience. npt veryone in hip hop listens to them. but i first hand have seen copywrite battle kids on the corner, and rock in front of a traditinal hip hop crowd. by traditional i mean people that are from a social, and cultural background that has be involved with sad music culture from day one. there will always be kids that write that listen to metal, jungle, hip hop, jazz, country wahtever else there is thats cool. but i am argueing just as hip hop was pushed onto to graffiti writers during the on the go period, that it has become also a marketed trend to be metal. and i would argue that just as a large majority of white kids who tried to be down with hip hop but never understood it pass a shallowing pasing. and never contributed of got the respect from people that were involved with hip hop before them, i would say that a lot kids that write have nothing to do with metal that existed before it became trendy. tat rocked a twisted sister piece. lady pink listened to the beatles. thats cool. i'm not denying that. but still argue that metal has become a source of a white idenity. not in the posse commitatus idea but as in...trying to find some cultural substance. working class white culture is just a trendy for kids nowadays as jazz was for beatniks. i have trouble believing that every kid in a mesh hat is a trucker's son, and grew up in working class white culture. and the fact that you think social class doesn't matter as you advocate the adoption of working class people's style is okay. its exploitive. and before you dismiss me as an intellectula these ideas were born from friends that work in chemical plants in louisiana who could not stand kids who looking for the proverbial holiday in cambodia. if you don't give a fuck about the people you are adoptting the culture of then how can you bitch about in mainstream culture. please do not respond with insults. you don't know shit about me. tell my ideas are wrong. here is my question should writer that listen to metal ,and grew up in the suburbs be able to interact with the the tradional metal audience? 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laffinginside Posted February 12, 2002 Author Share Posted February 12, 2002 Originally posted by seeking innocence christ almighty... do you people even try to understand the words you read, or do you just look for arguments to lose? i wasnt dissing tm7, i was dissing graffiti critics, specificly very pro-east coast critics that constantly speak out against anything that doesnt look 'traditional'. i dont care if yes goes bigger than my mothers uncle, the fact of the matter is that they paint incredibly similar, yet if i was to paint anything like joker, despite the fact that we are friends, i would be torn apart. hence the last sentence "graffiti is a fucking joke." im realizing though, its not graffiti, its writers that are the joke. in your original post you said everyone in tm7 painted the same. maybe be this is an inside joke. but for someone who does not follow these message board much it just looked like you were dissing tm7. their was not much clarification elsewhere. i think you are being overly sensitive to make blanket statements about all writers because of an error in your clarity. its short sided. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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