Kellogg to permanently replace striking workers as union rejects new contract

[Elena Delle Donne]

2 hours ago, Mercer said:

Financial responsibility doesn't correlate with class, or race. 

 

what's the difference between the south bronx and park slope? a lot, but this: people cluster by race and class. sometimes they're forced to. you can break down every measure of quality of life by neighborhood and zip code. people in park slope make more money and have better health outcomes and their kids will too. their kids go to good schools that they keep others out of. in america you get it and then you pull up the ladder behind you. we don't have to do this but we're proud of it. 

 

financial literacy and understanding has everything to do with your upbringing. my girlfriends parents are addicts. mine are conservatives; they spent money on nothing except the educations of their children. everything about us and how we understand money is wildly different. i've had the opportunity to show her a lot and i'm happy to.

 

unlike both of us, kids working the corner two blocks from my apartment are reminded every day by this society that they're worthless. when they get money they spend it because they feel, fairly, that they could die tomorrow; they're certainly unlikely to see 30. this mindset is corrosive and myopic. it leads to antisocial behavior and violence in families and friend groups. 

 

if you've had friends who've grown up in any kind of project environment they're intimately familiar with it, and had to work really, really hard to learn something different. you mention this. this is inequality, and it does correlate with class and race. they explain nearly all of it. 

[Mercer]

1 hour ago, Elena Delle Donne said:

 

what's the difference between the south bronx and park slope? a lot, but this: people cluster by race and class. sometimes they're forced to. you can break down every measure of quality of life by neighborhood and zip code. people in park slope make more money and have better health outcomes and their kids will too. their kids go to good schools that they keep others out of. in america you get it and then you pull up the ladder behind you. we don't have to do this but we're proud of it.

 

I'm not a ladder, or a stepping stone for anyone outside of those I consider family. Fact is neither are you, most anyone else on here, in America, or the world for that matter. Crabs that make it out of the bucket aren't really known for lowering the helping hand. Expecting the ones that do make it out to lift every other crab out with them means you're never going to be happy, even for the ones that do make it out.

 

1 hour ago, Elena Delle Donne said:

financial literacy and understanding has everything to do with your upbringing.

 

So how was the first financially literate person created if it has "everything" to do with upbringing? 

 

1 hour ago, Elena Delle Donne said:

my girlfriends parents are addicts. mine are conservatives; they spent money on nothing except the educations of their children. everything about us and how we understand money is wildly different. i've had the opportunity to show her a lot and i'm happy to.

 

Kinda what happened to me, ended up with my ex, a rich Japanese girl, and started absorbing good habits, and more informed perspectives on economics long before deciding to study economics. 

 

1 hour ago, Elena Delle Donne said:

 

unlike both of us, kids working the corner two blocks from my apartment are reminded every day by this society that they're worthless.

 

I was that kid on the corner for years, and I know what it feels like. On my own (off and on) since 14 years old. Every eye looks upon you in disgust, fear, or straight up hate.  Life itself involves trauma, and trauma leaves scars. Wether it's a criminal, an abuser, or Society itself causing trauma, no matter what they do afterward they can't erase the scar. Only the victim can decide to actually start repairing the trauma, and healing. The criminal (Society) that caused the trauma can't do that, even if they wanted to. If that worked they could just order rapists to become therapists for their victims, order a shooter to perform life saving surgery. It doesn't work like that.

 

1 hour ago, Elena Delle Donne said:

when they get money they spend it because they feel, fairly, that they could die tomorrow; they're certainly unlikely to see 30. this mindset is corrosive and myopic. it leads to antisocial behavior and violence in families and friend groups.

 

Again, no shit. I've sold drugs almost my entire life. 

 

1 hour ago, Elena Delle Donne said:

if you've had friends who've grown up in any kind of project environment they're intimately familiar with it, and had to work really, really hard to learn something different. you mention this. this is inequality, and it does correlate with class and race. they explain nearly all of it. 

 

Then why do middle/upper middle class kids end up broke losers as adults? Why are the people I know on here in real life making huge moves in life as we speak?

 

Poverty may correlate to race/class, but it's not causal in nature. Within any social construct like "race" for example, there is wider variation between individuals within the social construct, than there is between the averages of one group, vs another. That's why I'm out here flexing more than just my ultraviolet resistance, athletic ability, or natural musical talents on people of Western European decent. I'm flexing on them in their own game, economic warfare. So yea, that race shit doesn't even come close to "explaining nearly all of it" from my perspective. For me, it was as simple as deciding not to be poor, no skin bleaching, or pretending I was from a better class was ever ever once necessary. I'm speaking form the perspective of someone who's been on both sides, and know that excuses, even the real good ones aren't worth believing in. Having lower expectations for certain social constructs is low key, but IMO todays most harmful form of racism/classism.

 

Edited December 27, 2021 by Mercer

[Dark_Knight]

Point of survival mindset I was explaining earlier is that when you don’t have money to save and invest, you just make sure you survive. You don’t have time to think like that. And it’s multi generational. I grew up very blue collar. I am a little further than that life now, and hopefully further the older I get. But unless you get lucky…

 

All Im saying is it isn’t as easy as you say and some people don’t have time to put forth that effort because health and many other variables pop up to hinder anyone’s ability to advance. If everything lines up just right, select few can break through to the next level

 

Also, Unions are the best way for people to advance to the middle class and they played a giant role in creating the middle class in general.

 

#CuteUnionBoisOf12oz

[Dark_Knight]

You say that it’s not up to you to save the lower class from their cycle, but until someone educates them… the cycle will continue. 
 

Also I need to find a rich japanese girl. Sounds tight

[Mercer]

11 minutes ago, Dark_Knight said:

You say that it’s not up to you to save the lower class from their cycle, but until someone educates them… the cycle will continue.

 

Fuck you think I'm on here decimating the anti capitalist mentality for? I really believe, and live the shit I'm on here saying. I could be the meek vaginal type, and on here agreeing with a way more popular perspective that actually appeals to peoples emotions. The truth is a much harder path to take, but it's the right one. Nobody is holding anyone reading this back in life more than themselves.

 

11 minutes ago, Dark_Knight said:

Also I need to find a rich japanese girl. Sounds tight

 

Edited December 27, 2021 by Mercer

[Mercer]

22 minutes ago, Dark_Knight said:

Also, Unions are the best way for people to advance to the middle class and they played a giant role in creating the middle class in general.

 

According to them, yes. Overall I feel like capitalism itself deserves much more credit for this than they'd ever admit. I'm actually pro Union for the most part, and feel like they're 100% necessary in any developing economy. Especially necessary for super important shit people overlook, like establishing the absolute highest safety standards for workers. Once you're on your own, relying on OSHA, or some ambulance chasing lawyer to save your ass it's too late, and you're fucked.

 

 

Edited December 27, 2021 by Mercer
I can't fucking type for some reason

[Dark_Knight]

Speaking in regards to the less fortunate who only know how to pay bills and drink away their stress. They don’t know better. It’s not as easy as you say. But I have a feeling I won’t be able to convince you otherwise. The proof is in the pudding though.

[Mercer]

1 minute ago, Dark_Knight said:

Speaking in regards to the less fortunate who only know how to pay bills and drink away their stress. They don’t know better. It’s not as easy as you say. But I have a feeling I won’t be able to convince you otherwise. The proof is in the pudding though.

 

We'll never agree on this, I believe people have the ability to change course in life by simply deciding too, and feel like I'm living proof of that. Never an alcoholic, but def made some very poor decisions in life for a very long time.

[Dark_Knight]

I agree to a certain extend. Good luck and persistence go a long way but most people aren’t fortunate enough to have luck on their side. Which is where I empathize 

[Mercer]

Empathy is cool, helping illuminate a better path is even better.

 

My empathy is reserved for people in places where it is legit near impossible to even dream of living a comfortable life. For me they're the ones worth sending crypto too. Not really much empathy left over for most people that had it better than me, which includes most who grew up in a poorer area of the U.S.  Earning more than 32k a year puts a person in the top 1% globally, I've got family that can earn a fraction of that at best, and feel like they need, and appreciate my help more than anyone here outside of those being forcibly oppressed for victimless crimes by the "criminal justice" system.

[abrasivesaint]

13 hours ago, Mercer said:

 

 

I'm not asserting poor financial decisions correlate with race, I'm asserting they correlate with financial status. By bringing race into it, you're the one implying it.

 

 

Granted, denying that financial literacy correlates with financial status is punching upward, but it's still a classist statement by definition.

 

Worse yet, it's factually incorrect.

 

 

 

Proves my point.

That wasn’t so much a comment on what you said in that quote, as it was Dhabz picking and choosing what he deems “racist”. 
 

If proving your point means those that remain poor obviously aren’t making financially sound decisions, i understand that point. 

[abrasivesaint]

13 hours ago, Mercer said:

Or in @abrasivesaint's case, with his own false assumption that you need a special genes, or cultural upbringing to learn how to save, and invest, and that asserting otherwise is somehow racist.

 

Hard pause.

 

(Edit: deleted the comments of me talking shit back) You’re incredibly emotional in that post, and casting stones from a glass house, hombre. You’re personal shots here made me lose respect that i otherwise had for you, despite our disagreements on some matters. I’m sure you’re heartbroken. 
 

When have i said you needed special genes, or that a specific cultural upbringing was the only way you can learn to save? 

Edited December 27, 2021 by abrasivesaint

[Dirty_habiT]

9 hours ago, Dark_Knight said:

Speaking in regards to the less fortunate who only know how to pay bills and drink away their stress. They don’t know better. It’s not as easy as you say. But I have a feeling I won’t be able to convince you otherwise. The proof is in the pudding though.

this describes a neighbor I have. Society didn't choose this life for him. His choices did. I'm not in the group of people that feels sorry for someone else's choices when it causes them pain. It's not revenge for nobody ever caring (outside my family) of poor choices I made. That's just how life is for some people. 
 

you've got to run your own race.  Unionized labor doesn't allow you to be an individual. You will go as high as the union lets you and you will be stuck swinging from the nuts of sucking on the tit of the union for a raise. You guys ever notice this from watching the wire?  The police union and how the polish enacted nepotism within the union?  Fuck. All. That. 
 

If you are letting someone else be in control like that then you deserve only what they give you. I absolutely t bag the shit out of probably 98% of all union salaries. I start working at 10am and stop at 3pm with a two hour break in which I play battle field in between. 
 

my point is that nobody handed this to me. I've poured concrete. I delivered and repaired maytags. I was a diesel mechanic in the cold winters of north Texas, blah blah blah. I say the same thing about someone's job that they complained about that I say about complaining in jail. 
 

if you don't like it then bond out. It's obvious to the experienced what has to happen. It's lost on the person that thinks they enjoy complaining or that complaining is the actual solution to anything. 
 

Fuck unions. Fuck Kellogg too. Run your own race. Don't be a pussy and expect a union to care about you for anything outside of serving their own best interests. The only reason anyone is employed by a union, just like any other job, is because it benefits the union. When it doesn't your head rolls or you get stuck in that floor mopping union janitor position for eternity. 
 

If you want to control your life and pay you do what's best for you. Nobody can do that for you. Most people just have to stop being a pussy. Same with homeless. There are other ways but not for those that are limited in their thinking. Most union and homeless people are not actually limited they're just lazy. Easy to let someone else do the thinking for you. 
 

The difference for me is that I do the work AND the thinking for myself because most people cannot do this for me better than I can. 

[Dirty_habiT]

9 hours ago, Dark_Knight said:

I agree to a certain extend. Good luck and persistence go a long way but most people aren’t fortunate enough to have luck on their side. Which is where I empathize 

Dude this idea of luck is stupid. 
 

Luck doesn't exist at all and it's not a good word to use. It sounds like you believe in unicorns and fairies whenever I hear someone talk about luck. 

[Dirty_habiT]

I also think when you have kids at a young age your upward momentum in life instantly stagnates. Your focus becomes raising children and less on doing more than you did yesterday. I am not knocking anyone with kids, I've just watched most acquaintances I knew in school come to a hard stand still in career and money growth after having kids. 
 

They all say the same thing too. "Kids are so expensive". 
 

I wonder if in their limited thinking on that subject if a person that has worked to make a million or millions of dollars considers a pack of diapers to be expensive or daycare. Or new clothes. Fuck no they don't. The problem comes in when young parents feel personally attacked by this idea. They had the same ability to get ahead in life as anyone else. 
 

Working more hours isn't the answer to more success. It's figuring out how to make more money in less hours of work. People need to understand that. 
 

 

[Mercer]

5 hours ago, abrasivesaint said:

 

Hard pause.

 

(Edit: deleted the comments of me talking shit back) You’re incredibly emotional in that post, and casting stones from a glass house, hombre. You’re personal shots here made me lose respect that i otherwise had for you, despite our disagreements on some matters. I’m sure you’re heartbroken. 
 

When have i said you needed special genes, or that a specific cultural upbringing was the only way you can learn to save? 

 

 

 

Did you already forget using the words racist/classist to describe my statement? My post wasn't half as insulting as your post, not even close.

 

How do you want me to respond to a retarded statement like that, not defend and go in a Clayton Bigsby voice? You want me to dance a little jig for you too?

 

I dropped logic, and pointed out that having lower expectations for black people is in fact racist. Thinking any social construct group, or "class" of people is inherently incapable of financial literacy, is unintentionally classist to me.

 

Getting emotional with me, and asserting I'm some sort of racist, or classist may not be racist in and of itself, but expect me not to respond to your idiotic accusation is some super privileged ass shit if you ask me. If you don't like emotions, lay of the ad hominem and try to make your point without insulting me like that.

 

Go ahead and explain how my original statement was racist, or classist, while pretending you yourself don't harbor much lower expectations for a particular race, or a particular class.

 

You can't. 

Edited December 27, 2021 by Mercer

[Dirty_habiT]

On 12/26/2021 at 12:18 AM, abrasivesaint said:

 

1.) It’s classist to discriminate against people of different incomes, not racist. 
 

2.) i never said that

 

I honestly have no idea what this is about. 

 

 

1.) How am i pretending i’m a centrist? How many times do i have to tell you that i subscribe to no political ideology or theory before you get it? 
 

I like ideas, and concepts. I have no interest in slapping a label on myself because you’re uncomfortable with it. Mark me down on your white board in the leftists column if it makes you feel better. In the Presidential elections that i’ve voted in, i voted for Libertarian candidates, by the way. 
 

2.) Suck my whole ass about living off of handouts, haha. I’ve worked and made money since i was 10 years old and legally since i was 14. I’ve always paid my own way, and make my own money.
 

 

 

Names mean nothing to me. I like what i like and buy it accordingly based on nutritional value, financial value, and taste. But ya, my parents often bought store brand shit when i was growing up, because it saved them money they didn’t have, no matter how small the savings were.  
 

So to swing back around to accusation of “racist” comments, i made that statement (half jokingly by the way because y’all are increasingly ridiculous) from my own experiences and people i knew.

pew pew, or whatever. 

You don't have to subscribe to the ideology to display all the tell tale signs of being a leftist. You pretend to be centrist by saying you denounce all forms of government or you don't agree with any certain side yet the actions and words you speak say that you adhere rather strongly to the left side. 
 

I hold no reservation against telling you I'm a conservative. 

[abrasivesaint]

On 12/26/2021 at 9:51 PM, Mercer said:

Crabs that make it out of the bucket aren't really known for lowering the helping hand.

 

This is not the best analogy, there are clear counter-arguments here, to me. 

 

The obvious breakdown: You need to climb upon other crabs (people) to escape the bucket (the trap that is the system). 

 

1.) The system (the bucket) is a creation so that the proprietor of the bucket (those of power, wealth, ect.) may feast upon and live at the expense of the crabs (the people). 

 

2.) If the crabs worked together to collectively escape or destroy the bucket, nobody would be left behind, or there would be no bucket. Due to the looming threat of being eaten by the proprietor of the bucket, the crabs are in a state of panic and focus solely on survival, rather than the root cause of their situation, the proprietor and the bucket. 

 

We simply do not have to live this way anymore. We have the means to sustain our existence. This is evident in the sheer waste our society produces. When there is food that spoils before it is eaten, there is an obvious abundance. With due credit, this is partly in thanks to Capitalist incentives and efforts. However, like with anything, you can overdose or over-consume, and die. I believe this is where the current system is heading, and it doesn’t need to. Capitalist ideas can survive without being unfettered. 

 

3.) That the crabs (people) are within the bucket (system) involuntarily, otherwise they would not be fighting to escape their fate. 

 

4.) What this analogy argues is (social) Darwinism. That only the most fit crabs will survive the bucket. Kropotkin’s “Mutual Aid” argues that cooperation (rather than competition) within species is highly understated. That many species survive, thrive, and evolve due to cooperation. 

 

As i said earlier, if the crabs worked together rather than against each other, they could all escape or destroy the bucket, and maybe even the proprietor. 

 

Obviously life isn’t fair. This isn’t a fact unique to the crabs, but to the bucket and the proprietor as well. 

[abrasivesaint]

I wrote a similar post to that one above when i was posting the other day, and the page refreshed and deleted it. I re-wrote it on my phone and came back to post it. 
 

I have not read any current @‘s, posts or threads. Due to the current state of things around here, i’m checking out of 12oz for a little while.
 

Have fun, take care. 
 

edit: by “the state of things” i mean that some people here have their ideas, and are unwilling to question them. They take any criticism of these ideas personally, and counter with personal insults instead of counter arguing with ideas because their identity seems to be attached to these beliefs. If a discussion does take place and meets a stalemate, the personal attacks start flying. I’m simply uninterested at the moment. I’m certainly not perfect, and not above hypocrisy. I understand and accept that. I don’t think some of y’all are willing or ready to do the same. 
 

I have learned and even changed opinions through the years due to discussions here, through exploration of ideas in my life by reading and educating myself, and so on. I just don’t see that happening here anymore. The objective simply seems to be “win the argument at all costs”.  I’m not saying i’m not guilty of this as well, i’m acknowledging it.  
 

I’m sure i’ll be back at some point. We all seem to find our way back here in some manner. But for now y’all can fucking think what you want about me. 
 

Enjoy. 

Edited December 29, 2021 by abrasivesaint

[Dirty_habiT]

Crabs can't destroy a bucket. Whoops. 

[Dirty_habiT]

You're not allowed to say y'all bruh. That's a Texas thing and you sound like a conservative saying it. 
 

You all of the sudden cool with working for what you have, not white knighting other peoples problems, and admit we need some form of working government?

[Mercer]

You automatically assume a crab must "climb over others" to make it out of the bucket. I'm not intentionally trying to offend you, just saying that from my perspective this is a false assumption, and a manifestation of classism.

 

It's like assuming Micheal Jordan harms other basketball players by being so good at it, or Micheal Jackson harms less successful musicians by having more mass appeal. It's this same automatic, default assumption that out's you as a classist. It's the exact same as someone who's born well off, looking down their nose at good people for not having the same values, values that would make no sense in their situation. That's how I define "classism", not which vertical direction someone fighting a class war is punching.

 

Crabs (humans) make it out of the bucket (poverty) without harming other crabs most of the time. I'm not claiming all of the time, but most of the time. Demonizing success in an economic meritocracy is just a transparent grifter's excuse. Morality does not correlate with wealth, or the lack of wealth.

 

Again, not trying to offend you by telling you what your perspective is. This is a direct response to your words:

 

4 hours ago, abrasivesaint said:

You need to climb upon other crabs (people) to escape the bucket (the trap that is the system).

 

This is the false statement.

[Dirty_habiT]

Same as for someone to be rich they had to have taken from others to get there making them poor. 
 

I had to stop being friends recently with someone I thought was smarter because they started telling me about how there should be a wealth tax when the guy saying this to me has a salary in the six figures, has no kids, and is dating a live in gf that also makes over six figures. 
 

wealth tax. Gtfo of here. Dumbest idea. I definitely AM trying to offend someone who thinks they're smart and says this dumb shit. 
 

Nobody gets ahead in life by shitting on others for very long. 

[where]

Puke

[Dark_Knight]

Charge your phone dude

[where]

20 minutes ago, Dark_Knight said:

Charge your phone dude

Charge your dildo bro

[mr.yuck]

@abrasivesaint

 

 

[Dirty_habiT]

Lol.