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READ ME: 12oz Community Project - Trying to rally you guys up to help push the forum forward.


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i wouldn't say that politics is "inappropriate" for 12oz 

BUT it does breed divisiveness 

 

I think, and I'm NOT talking shit, that the reason most "fights" break out is because most don't know the subject they're defending well enough to make any real coherent argument

 

to boil it down, we are all passionate about one thing or the other

And i would actually say we need MORE discussions that promote thinking outside our comfort zones

 

The one thing i would say is that more "reading" and "research" before going down the debate path is a good idea

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On 5/22/2021 at 11:52 AM, ndv said:

I think everyone that has been mentioned to those who have posted a comment here (excluding myself) are all great candidates for the panel.  However, there may have been a few who haven't been mentioned/considered which may have to do with their absence per say but none the less @+plus+ @T4M* @earmuffs could be thrown into the mix.  However, it would be nice to see the panel with not only active members, but members who post accross the board.  

 

Wonder what @Ray40 has been up to, haven't heard from lil dude lately.  I know a while back @misteraven asked @Ray40 what are your thoughts of moving the forum forward and I totally understand why the question. Because I, myself,  am a entrepreneur and these are very important questions to the younger generation to keep a business ahead of the curve and relavent.   Anyhow, @Ray40 we would like to hear from you.  Hope all is well, you amd the fam are doing good.  Chime in when you get a chance.  Hopefully that will be soon. 

Thanks for the consideration mate

 

been on Slap mag, Surfer mag forum and here a little bit more recently. trying to get away from insta and reddit all the time. 

 

giphy.gif

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On 5/25/2021 at 3:53 PM, lord_casek said:

I've been thinking about this push for new rules and more structure a lot and I think I have a solution. 
I think that everyone is overthinking this and a ground base of rules need to be set, but it needs to be basic. 

No Racism


No Doxxing


Arguments should be moderated by level headed members (I'll expand on this) and if not resolved should be taken to PM by request of a moderator
or by force of a moderator (moderation actions)

No pirated materials


No spam.


Expansion of "arguments"- We're the adults now. We should be setting examples for the younger members. The older members should be taking lead on moderating (without the mod tools). Moderators should be second line, and Admin third and final line (it should never come to this step). 

Just having a political section invites the Karens we don't want. I enjoyed it once upon a time when I was argumentative and hard headed, but those days are over.  

All of us still like to have fun and break balls. That is part of what 12oz has always been, part of graffiti culture, and part of life. Adding too many rules could have an opposite affect and smother the site instead of building upon it. 

Don't overcomplicate things. KISS. 

 

uh so no pirated booty tapes, also if anyone has a copy of State Your Name ima need a link 

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I’m here for the gangbang.  
 

wait...

 

There are rules now????  When the fuck did that happen??

 

Damn it.  No more gang bangs.  
 

I’m out.  Let me know when you losers are going to have fun again.  
 

lame. 

31E94BA6-3813-437C-BA2C-39FA37716EC0.jpeg

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38 minutes ago, CILONE/SK said:

I’m here for the gangbang.  
 

wait...

 

There are rules now????  When the fuck did that happen??

 

Damn it.  No more gang bangs.  
 

I’m out.  Let me know when you losers are going to have fun again.  
 

lame. 

31E94BA6-3813-437C-BA2C-39FA37716EC0.jpeg



UCBgJiTA&pid=ImgRaw

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1 hour ago, CILONE/SK said:

I’m here for the gangbang.  
 

wait...

 

There are rules now????  When the fuck did that happen??

 

Damn it.  No more gang bangs.  
 

I’m out.  Let me know when you losers are going to have fun again.  
 

lame. 

31E94BA6-3813-437C-BA2C-39FA37716EC0.jpeg


This is what I summoned you for

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On 5/25/2021 at 2:53 PM, lord_casek said:

I've been thinking about this push for new rules and more structure a lot and I think I have a solution. 
I think that everyone is overthinking this and a ground base of rules need to be set, but it needs to be basic. 

No Racism


No Doxxing


Arguments should be moderated by level headed members (I'll expand on this) and if not resolved should be taken to PM by request of a moderator
or by force of a moderator (moderation actions)

No pirated materials


No spam.


Expansion of "arguments"- We're the adults now. We should be setting examples for the younger members. The older members should be taking lead on moderating (without the mod tools). Moderators should be second line, and Admin third and final line (it should never come to this step). 

Just having a political section invites the Karens we don't want. I enjoyed it once upon a time when I was argumentative and hard headed, but those days are over.  

All of us still like to have fun and break balls. That is part of what 12oz has always been, part of graffiti culture, and part of life. Adding too many rules could have an opposite affect and smother the site instead of building upon it. 

Don't overcomplicate things. KISS. 

 

On 5/25/2021 at 4:47 PM, lord_casek said:



I think I should remind you that Crossfire was added to the site because people like me, Theo, AngelofDeath, and some others kept clogging up Channel Zero with political discussion. 

That probably never should have happened. This isn't a political site. There are plenty of places for that. Whole sites filled to the brim that you can agree with people or argue people in. 

Politics ruins everything. 

Have your views. I have mine. I'm just not going to advertise them anymore because it pushes away people, things, opportunities, etc. I have places to go if I want to argue or agree or just let loose and laugh about stupid shit. I come here to be with like-minded creatives with a shared experience(s). 


 

 

18 hours ago, lord_casek said:


It's the culture we're in now. I've felt it and am guilty of it, too. Things change. 

I spent five years being called all kinds of horrible things that I'm not. I re-payed those 
calling me names by calling them things that they aren't. It spreads poison and divides
and it doesn't stop until one of the parties realizes what a hamster wheel it is. 

Call me pro censorship. I've been called worse. I won't return the favor.


Look at how it's dividing and nothing has even been done. Over an idea. I don't even have
any power to do any of this. I can't call Raven and say "enact these rules!". So silly. 

 

 

Quoted the above posts because I basically agree with all of it.

 

Any organized system has rules. No doubt rules can work against progress, but I'd like to think we can find a solid balance. Again, the forum for most of its life had rules. For the most part, you guys still abide by the obvious ones. Likewise, I see the forum and the rules as a living thing that evolves... Meaning if we don't get it right, we can always change shit up.

 

That said, I agree the rules should be pretty concise and easy to wrap your head around. I'm not trying top create a community handbook that requires real effort comprehend. Likely, it'll be something similar to what you're suggesting and likely inspired by the rules I posted earlier. Its been interesting to hear the various opinions. I wish there had been more members posting various reference links, but no worries, I'll put it together.

 

Likewise, I see both sides of the fence regarding talking politics. It's pretty incredible to see how in reality, we always talked about these type of subjects, but its largely in the atmosphere of the last few years where its become so unbelievably divisive and contentious. In any case, the way I see it, is the forum has many sections and the topics reflect what members feel like discussing. It's self correcting, so if nobody wants to participate, the thread dies and gets buried. Likewise, if you dont want to partake, simply stay out of the thread / section and keep it moving. If we abided by the idea that this is a graffiti forum and that's all we shouId talk about, this would be a very different space and IMO, not nearly as interesting. I do wish the groups would gain more traction as it would solve a lot of these issues, both in regards to rules, as well as what the topics should be.

 

Anyhow, I welcome more feedback and especially welcome some help with references to this sort of thing. Looking like the panel thing isn't getting much tailwind so I'll just grab bits and pieces, like what was suggested above by @lord_casek and likely just hack this together myself once I get a minute to breath.

 

 

 

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I’m gonna be honest; I don’t read the rules anywhere I go online. For the most part I just ask myself “would this be fucked up if some one did this to me?”

 

Ive been first post permabanned from a handful of sub Reddit’s. That’s not really a place I would want to devote any of my time to anyway. 

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Having guidelines to moderate within would be great. Otherwise, it ends up falling on our personal opinions and biases of what we believe to be acceptable or not. Having basic rules would eliminate that. Having a mission statement for what is expected of us as moderators would be nice too. Been asking for both of these things for... years now?
 

the ghost mod idea is too much in my option. Secret police type shit. 


interested to see what unfolds...

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  • 1 month later...

@misteravenI just saw this thread and thanks for the mention but I don't get involved in the forum as much as I used to and wouldn't be much help.

 

But I do want to raise something with you and wasn't sure where else to do it.

 

The new layout makes looking at pics a pain in the arse. I still come here for the graf and have been taking pics and sketching with the intent of posting in Brick Slayers and Paper Chase. However, this new layout, which includes the stats bar on the right (replies, created, last reply, etc.) squeezes the actual forum content, including pics to be so small, I might as well just make jump to insta.

 

I don't see the use of that stats bar on the right, the info is pretty irrelevant to most people and all it does is create a lot of dead space on the page when you scroll down, and makes the actual content less pleasing to view.

 

I stayed on 12 because I could fill my screen with the pics, which are the reason I first came to this place. Now, this forum is no different to Insta for my uses, which I feel is a great pity because I can't understand what has been gained by choosing this page layout. I hope that you are able to remove that stat bar on the right and expand the content field to optimise the visual aspect, and what I believe is the core of this website.

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@Hua Guofang Can you explain a little more? I've never considered it before, but makes sense that there should be a user option top at least collapse it. One mobile it isn't present and with out layout, images stretch to virtually the full width of the device. As for desktop, yeah should be a n option to collapse it or toggle off, but what size display are you on that it squeezes the image to be so small that instagram would actually make more sense?

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Also, as a follow up to this entire Rules thing... Obviously no rules were created and a lot has changed since this whole conversation began. There has, however, been some really great progress as to a technical solution that at least helps things out.

 

I do plan to still loop back to rules, but with the forum upgrade I did yesterday, there's some pretty robust features for automatic moderation, as well as a new "gamification" feature you might have noticed with the little badge graphic next to everyone's avatar and additional stats on user profiles. This feature will no doubt evolve to be pretty powerful, but as is, we can create rule sets on the backend so that if a user is spamming or trolling, they can have their posts auto hidden according to a threshold we configure.

 

Example, right now there is a rule that if a Member has less than 100 reputation points and has a post that gets reported by 3 individual members, all their content become hidden and they are placed into a moderation queue.

 

No doubt a feature like this can be abused, but likewise, thats self correcting in itself since I can see who did the reporting and can adjust the threshold on the rule set to make it a little less likely to be abused. Anyone that abuses it, opens themselves up to a straight ban.

 

Anyhow, my thought is that if we have some simple, straight forward rules intended to keep user and conversations from degrading to trolling and arguing, the conversations stay cleaner and are likely to be better for the majority of members and community as a whole. I understand that there's been callouts about censorship, but fact is that 12ozProphet is a private domain that is entirely funded out of my pocket. Its your choice to participate and its my choice to let people participate. I tend to allow for a certain level of democracy on here, but at the end of the day, I see this as more of a constitutional republic in that there will be some basic rules inspired by principles of non-aggression and beyond that, we can discuss, consider and potentially involve the community as a whole into most aspects beyond these principles. No at always perfect (as if anything in life is), but I believe its a step in the right direction and ultimately all my choices are motivated by what I feel will be best for this platform long term. There's a reason that 12ozProphet's tagline is "Not For Everybody".

 

Anyhow, I'll loop back and explain some of these new features in more detail once the dust settles. For now, the new merit system is using stock images and the default rule set. Took me a while to work through updating the custom theme we have to be compatible with the big upgrade I just did so I still need to go through these new features and dial them in.

 

Cheers.

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9 hours ago, misteraven said:

Can you explain a little more? I've never considered it before, but makes sense that there should be a user option top at least collapse it.

 

I think an option to collapse that stuff on the top right would be great, in fact I think it should be hidden by default - I mean it's just stats, basically, does anyone look at those? These things create quite a chunk of empty space further down the page.

 

It'd be nice to have the images bigger in my opinuon, but actually my main gripe is the way they are rendered to make them "fit" is the biggest issue for me, i other words photos usually just look soft and a bit shit, no matter the quality and size you upload, which is a real shame.

 

Screen Shot 2.png

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