fat ralphy Posted May 22, 2021 Share Posted May 22, 2021 guys I’m not advocating 12oz become Reddit - simply citing another forum (largest on the net) and some things that are good about it. back to my original statement I would like to see more traffic and higher volume of posts with our overall aesthetic intact.....the funnels, tpwf, dog whales, cheeto feet, etc. this is my 2nd SN and I can still remember the first time I was introduced to 12oz nearly 20 years ago.... 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dirty_habiT Posted May 22, 2021 Share Posted May 22, 2021 Oh yeah man I wasn't responding to suggest you were doing some certain thing. I just wanted to share my perspective on Reddit. it was mainly /r/Austin that made me realize circlejerking was a common pastime for the membership that frequented that sub. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dirty_habiT Posted May 22, 2021 Share Posted May 22, 2021 17 minutes ago, fat ralphy said: guys I’m not advocating 12oz become Reddit - simply citing another forum (largest on the net) and some things that are good about it. back to my original statement I would like to see more traffic and higher volume of posts with our overall aesthetic intact.....the funnels, tpwf, dog whales, cheeto feet, etc. this is my 2nd SN and I can still remember the first time I was introduced to 12oz nearly 20 years ago.... don't forget kettie eating a peanut butter sandwich with her cooter. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deine Mudder Posted May 22, 2021 Share Posted May 22, 2021 (edited) . Edited May 22, 2021 by Deine Mudder double post Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deine Mudder Posted May 22, 2021 Share Posted May 22, 2021 (edited) . Edited May 22, 2021 by Deine Mudder triple post Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deine Mudder Posted May 22, 2021 Share Posted May 22, 2021 15 hours ago, misteraven said: I really do believe that the experience here on 12oz would improve for most of us, if we had some basic structure to it. I believe we've managed to get this far without it, mainly because most of you guys have been here for ages and have a pretty good idea as to whats acceptable and what isn't, but we've also seen a lot of drama and even a few OG members drop off. Appreciate the thought you're putting into this but I really am not sure if structuring 12oz from above will indeed "improve the experience". Imagine your local graffiti was being "structured". I guess most OG members left not because of a lack of structure but because this forum wasn't fucking functioning for years, no offense, and maybe they just got older, had family, interest changed etc. - and the new kids just lack the attention span required for interacting with other like one does in a forum - it's rather just commenting on IG and TikTok and whatever now. Sure, there's some people and some ideas communicated on here I am offended by (blunt fascism and misogyny), but as with graffiti on the wall I don't like I just ignore / deal with it. What you're intending to do is essentially buffing / censoring, right? 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
abrasivesaint Posted May 22, 2021 Share Posted May 22, 2021 1 hour ago, Deine Mudder said: What you're intending to do is essentially buffing / censoring, right? Have you been to the news section lately? Not a whole lot of censoring going on, haha. 1 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deine Mudder Posted May 22, 2021 Share Posted May 22, 2021 3 hours ago, abrasivesaint said: Have you been to the news section lately? Not a whole lot of censoring going on, haha. Have I been to the what section? Nah man, switched to Ch0 a decade ago and then the remote broke 🤷♂️ Seriously though, I really wasn't aware there is such a thing as a "news section" on here.. shit's wild! 1 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dirty_habiT Posted May 22, 2021 Share Posted May 22, 2021 Trolling? ^^^. Lol. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LUGR Posted May 22, 2021 Share Posted May 22, 2021 1 hour ago, Deine Mudder said: Have I been to the what section? Nah man, switched to Ch0 a decade ago and then the remote broke 🤷♂️ Seriously though, I really wasn't aware there is such a thing as a "news section" on here.. shit's wild! 2 1 1 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ndv Posted May 22, 2021 Share Posted May 22, 2021 I think everyone that has been mentioned to those who have posted a comment here (excluding myself) are all great candidates for the panel. However, there may have been a few who haven't been mentioned/considered which may have to do with their absence per say but none the less @+plus+ @T4M* @earmuffs could be thrown into the mix. However, it would be nice to see the panel with not only active members, but members who post accross the board. Wonder what @Ray40 has been up to, haven't heard from lil dude lately. I know a while back @misteraven asked @Ray40 what are your thoughts of moving the forum forward and I totally understand why the question. Because I, myself, am a entrepreneur and these are very important questions to the younger generation to keep a business ahead of the curve and relavent. Anyhow, @Ray40 we would like to hear from you. Hope all is well, you amd the fam are doing good. Chime in when you get a chance. Hopefully that will be soon. 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tails0nE Posted May 22, 2021 Share Posted May 22, 2021 I dig it id love to see 12oz pick up steam and what new things we can do as a community to push us forward.. I basically grew up on here in a sense and not just with graffiti but with conversations and advice from people all over with different perspectives on life and what not.. spent countless hours late at night just to sleep during my first block of high school, shout out TeamSleepProbz.. met tons of friends through the Chicago thread and others.. I still reference 12oz constantly and even called my niece Cheeto feet the other day.. also social media like Facebook and what not, in my opinion, is super fucking annoying nowadays and I hardly post on there.. I always see nonsensical judgment all over the place and people always trying to "one up" eachother because "I know something you don't know so I'm superior" or more of a "my opinion matters more than yours so I'm above you" kind of attitude all over the place with TONS of contradictions.. it's fucking annoying.. where as here, we can debate and discuss and argue or whatever but at the end of the day we all still tend to have that baseline respect towards one another even if you call someone a tpwf.. can't do that anywhere else with out the PC police coming in trying to cancel you.. All in all I'm excited to see what 12oz has in store and how we can grow as a whole.. even if the panel is decided already or whatever I'll do my part to contribute in anyway and try to help with anything within my means.. 🖤 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
misteraven Posted May 22, 2021 Author Share Posted May 22, 2021 Seems like we have a pretty broad consensus of support. To respond to @lord_casek , as much as I'd like to think so, the forum is not graffiti. It is a forum in which graffiti is discussed in some sections / threads. That said, graffiti does have its rules and occasionally when a rule is broken successfully, it dissolves to make way for a that new feature or understanding. Most of the time, it keeps things in check. I had a conversation yesterday with @Grassy Knowlesto mention how this might be why graffiti sort of sucks now a days... Is there is no elder or authoritative voice for graffiti anymore. Nobody to call people out, regulate or put dumbasses in check. Instead, its evolved into this all inclusive hobby where anyone can "claim art", build a following on social without paying any real dues and suddenly find themselves in a group show with virtually no risk of being called out. Not sure about the rest of you and perhaps I'm just a cranky old man, but I miss the old graffiti... Days when it was actually a counter culture, rat race that you had to earn respect within by paying tangible dues. Back when success wasn't measured in Instagram followers, corporate collaborations or eye opening dollar amounts for the latest canvas sold. Regardless, 12oz has always done its own thing and I've purposely tried to not appease the status quo with my efforts with it. We used to have an amazingly robust community on here and at that time, did in fact have rules. I genuinely believe that foundational step is missing now and still hold out faith that between our heritage and especially with the strategic advantage we've created over the years, from relationships, to experience, to this new expansion of our screen printing business, that 12oz has more potential now than it ever did. In any case, I'm going to keep trying to push it forward, but really depend on all you guys to help me tip it back over into what it can be. I think the timing is right and likely gets better every day. Maybe I sounded like a crackpot years ago when I said social media was on its way to being done and now we all generally look at it with disdain, with many of us already dropped off. Anyhow, its going to happen and I hope you guys will help me make it happen. -------------------------- So as stated previously, I still want to give this thread time to gain traction before settling on our panel. But as previously stated, this is more about all of you guys. The members of the panel are just to help me add some organization to this process. Also as previously stated, I have some pretty general ideas as to how we should go about this. I'd like to begin the rules by drafting a summary of what we're trying to achieve here on the forum with the 12oz community, as well as loosely describe the spirit of our intent in fostering and preserving that goal. I believe an approach inspired by natural right / law can serve as a great foundation for this. Next, I'd like to define some obvious rules pulled from that. The understanding being that the rules help flesh out the intent in a more literal way, but to avoid the trapping of people arguing semantics to open loop holes, its about the spirit of our law and not the letter of the law and that in some, maybe many cases, transgressions will be reviewed individually beyond the obvious list of rules that follow the summary. Based upon that, I'll draft some consequences that range from 1 day to 30 day suspension, through to perma banning. Likewise, I'll also work back to create a protocol for moderators, though I'm seriously considering restructuring moderation completely by setting up private moderator accounts for a select few that will be hand chosen to moderate in secret. In other words, moderator accounts will not be able to participate in discussions, but will be an invisible team in the background to help manage. Those accounts will be in addition to regular accounts that people use to engage and participate in discussions. This is the only thing I can think of to help keep moderation as unbiased as well as avoid the age old gripe of moderators "power tripping" during discussions. Likely I can build in automation / features that handles most duties, so until its obvious that I can't handle the load of addressing gripes or keeping things smooth, I might just handle it myself or assign one of the people I work with in real life to assist. Either way the idea isn't to come at it heavy handed, but rather to keep things smooth by ensuring consistency across whatever guidelines we build here together and ultimately institute. Further to that, I'd like to also assemble a literal framework for formal debate for the forum sections that merit that approach (news for example). There's also kinds of precedent for formal debate, such as the rules and protocols established for high school and college debate, political debate, etc... I don't want to bind it down to the point where you need to study a handbook to participate, but there needs to be a protocol established to ensure formal debates stay on track and avoid the usual trappings that degrade them to petty insults and personal attacks. So stating all of the above, we can begin this process, with the low hanging fruit exercises... Searching out the obvious online communities like Reddit and other social media platforms, as well as other forums to drop links to existing community guidelines and rules that might inform or inspire our own approach. Likewise, we can do some research and drop links into existing scholarly works discussing concepts such as natural law / rights and similar non intervention type thought on the subject. Again, the idea is to allow for free thought and the exploration of ideas in as free a form as possible, yet insure there are mechanisms to keep it from descending into emotionally driven bickering, trolling or other forms of personal attack. Lastly, we can also easily pull out some solid rules for debate and likely, even existing rules for remote or online debate protocol. The hope being we can streamline it into something logical and easy to understand. Include some sort sort of checks and balance system so that those participating, as well as those on the side lines can point out / correct when debates / dialogues start straying. -------------------------- So this is my proposed approach. I welcome your feedback and suggestions and will give serious consideration to well considered ideas and points of view. Likewise, I encourage all of you that have stepped up and have offered support to help with the process I just described... Start running searches and dropping links, quotes, excerpts etc so we can start hacking this together. Once we have a bit to work with, I'll create a web accessible document and link it here. Those on the panel will have read / write access to this document so it can be updated as we reach panel consensus AND my approval and the rest of you will have read access so that you can drop feedback in here to help shape and evolve it. Hopefully this works efficiently and effectively and if not, I'll adjust accordingly. Thanks in advance for the help. 1 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deine Mudder Posted May 22, 2021 Share Posted May 22, 2021 46 minutes ago, misteraven said: seriously considering restructuring moderation completely by setting up private moderator accounts for a select few that will be hand chosen to moderate in secret so, stealth censoring now? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dark_Knight Posted May 22, 2021 Share Posted May 22, 2021 I think it would be important to build brick slayers back up. Like @Dirty_habiTis doing with crew in metals heads. And @One Man Bannedhas always done with benching. Getting people to post here first and creating exclusivity for graffiti here. That should be top priority. Ch0 and general discussion will follow. Im not sure about everyone else, but I know I came here for the graffiti. I stayed this long for the ch0 nonsense. But drawing the culture back in requires us building back what started 12oz to begin with. Just my thoughts. How to execute this is something that would obviously need to be brainstormed. 2 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deine Mudder Posted May 22, 2021 Share Posted May 22, 2021 11 minutes ago, Dark_Knight said: I came here for the graffiti. I stayed this long for the ch0 nonsense. same here 🙂 I suppose the vast majority of active users would sign that? Frankly I'm not really clear on what 12oz wants to be - right now, and in the future.. ..mostly a graff forum, with other stuff on the side, or rather a forum where "everything" is being discussed? Like a reddit, just with more arrows? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dark_Knight Posted May 22, 2021 Share Posted May 22, 2021 @Deine Mudder curious about this as well. My opinion on it is that Reddit does forums better than anyone so if the priority is building that up I think we will lose. What 12oz has that Reddit can never have is graffiti. Play off the strengths we have here. I mentioned in third rail about docu series ideas. Easier said than done, but exclusive graffiti content will draw people in. James with FreshPaint did this pretty well with his YouTube channel. I’m thinking a level beyond that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lord_casek Posted May 22, 2021 Share Posted May 22, 2021 1 hour ago, Dark_Knight said: I think it would be important to build brick slayers back up. Like @Dirty_habiTis doing with crew in metals heads. And @One Man Bannedhas always done with benching. Getting people to post here first and creating exclusivity for graffiti here. That should be top priority. Ch0 and general discussion will follow. Im not sure about everyone else, but I know I came here for the graffiti. I stayed this long for the ch0 nonsense. But drawing the culture back in requires us building back what started 12oz to begin with. Just my thoughts. How to execute this is something that would obviously need to be brainstormed. We can do that. Street team did it once and we can do it again. 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fat ralphy Posted May 22, 2021 Share Posted May 22, 2021 @misteraven that is a solid course of action, going to take some time for sure. once you get things rolling it would probably be best to have a thread in VIP that can be used for the workforce to discuss/update etc Channel0 gonna Channel0 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fat ralphy Posted May 22, 2021 Share Posted May 22, 2021 3 hours ago, Deine Mudder said: Like a reddit, just with more arrows? MOAR arrows Fundamentally 12oz will always be based in graffiti but the culture has grown to be so much more than that..... Especially as we have all gotten older. I fucking love graffiti, completely. That said it is not the only thing I value as a 40 year old man.....20 years ago though it was all I cared about, except maybe smoking tree. I think oontz can be a hub of sorts for all of us and the multiple interests that we share. At this point most of the content here is unrelated to graffiti more or less.....sure we all came here via that route but in my mind that means I am more inclined to have commonalities with all of you. 2 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lord_casek Posted May 22, 2021 Share Posted May 22, 2021 31 minutes ago, fat ralphy said: MOAR arrows Fundamentally 12oz will always be based in graffiti but the culture has grown to be so much more than that..... Especially as we have all gotten older. I fucking love graffiti, completely. That said it is not the only thing I value as a 40 year old man.....20 years ago though it was all I cared about, except maybe smoking tree. I think oontz can be a hub of sorts for all of us and the multiple interests that we share. At this point most of the content here is unrelated to graffiti more or less.....sure we all came here via that route but in my mind that means I am more inclined to have commonalities with all of you. So maybe we get a loose plan of action together? Populate the photo threads, maybe bench a little to give metalheads and brickslayers a push, and whatever else we can give a push? 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fat ralphy Posted May 23, 2021 Share Posted May 23, 2021 @lord_casek I will start to update my Best of Brickslayers thread daily and push my local threads with some content. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
T4M* Posted May 23, 2021 Share Posted May 23, 2021 I have a list somewhere on here of old Gs names that I would nominate, I'm down. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lord_casek Posted May 23, 2021 Share Posted May 23, 2021 2 hours ago, fat ralphy said: @lord_casek I will start to update my Best of Brickslayers thread daily and push my local threads with some content. I'm down to help out that way, too. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mercer Posted May 23, 2021 Share Posted May 23, 2021 If we want to improve 12oz, we could continue looking back towards past glory when the forum was really bumping. Realistically speaking, it's not going to happen. If we're making efforts to improve here, and draw in new members to contribute more content, we should instead be looking towards a new future. Realistically those glory days of the forum just aren't ever coming back. Most of us have our roots based in graffiti, but I don't think the majority of members posting in Channel Zero are still out bombing regularly. Props if you are, but I know I'm not. Those days are long over for me, and to be honest I don't even snap flicks of graffiti anymore, or even know who's who in any city anymore. I still have a huge respect for the culture, and occasionally check Brick Slayer's, and Metal heads, but honestly speaking that's rare. I'm in the off topic portion of the forum 99% of the time. Where I do think we excel is in our continued core values of not conforming to norms, and to me that's what makes this place different from any other platform. Even though we're not addicted to bombing anymore we're basically still making our own norms work for us, as opposed to conforming. The content I find most engaging are threads like Crypto, Online Privacy, Food, Off Grid Living, This Old Trap House, etc. Fuck, even the Lego thread was dope and I haven't touched any since the 80's, To me it's most engaging diving into conversations where members have developed a passion on any given subject as adults. Some of these topics are people's hobbies, some of these topics are people's passions, and some are topics like people's making careers out of something they care about. To me, that's where it's at. We still have a tendency towards obsession. Every one of us has these passions outside of Graffiti now in one way or another, and we should be sharing that. Basically less duck lip selfies, and deep dives into topics most of the boring mainstream folks on Social media aren't clicking likes for. 1 1 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lord_casek Posted May 23, 2021 Share Posted May 23, 2021 @Mercer This is really stirring the ol' noodle around. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
misteraven Posted May 23, 2021 Author Share Posted May 23, 2021 Please note that this thread isnt so much about discussing a strategy for a new direction for 12oz. Likewise, I'm not really interested in circling back into a conversation about whether the forum is relevant or capable of going against social media or whatever else is out there scrambling to engage people. It either is or it isn't and the choice is to either speculate about it or just keep chipping away at making this place a fun place to gather, have some lolz and perhaps make some new friends. I recall a few years back when I relaunched the forum, how it was an absolute ghost town... Literally only a handful of people posting and rarely on the same day, let alone the same hour. Then after some time, the conversation shifted to how the forum was just way too slow, even if by then it was a couple dozen people and most page 1 threads had a comment from that day. Now, largely on its own, its reached a point where there is a real sense of community, however small. There's more than a couple threads with real energy behind them and not just a handful of people trying to bump and breath life into old mega threads. To me, its not about turning the forum its the same thing it once was, its merely about community and an alternative to what's out there being shopped as community (social media). Anyhow, we have a lot of other threads out there that dissect social media or talk about moving forward as a brand. More I dwell on it, the more I feel it isn't really that deep. 12oz is unlikely to ever have the financial and technical resources to be a true player in that space and I'm fine with that. In the meantime, we can have our own grass roots alternative, that we already recognize as being way more authentic, way more rewarding and way more entertaining. That's all we need and as people stumble on what we have going here, maybe they'll come to the same conclusion and stick around. I'm sure at some point the conversation will shift to "there's too many people many people I dont know" and "I miss the old 12oz when it was all family". In any case, not to complicate the intent with this thread, but the idea is simply to assemble a basic mission statement that goes on to summarize our intent by keeping this little experiment going. From that we'll formulate some basic rules that make sense and then continue on to establish a debate protocol that allows for a more formal exploration of ideas and dialogue so that the news section has what it needs to be a real platform for discussing deeper topics. So to that end, please read my last comment and please start linking references to community guidelines, rules and formal debate protocols and we'll figure out how to twist and tweak it into what makes sense for our own community. If after that, you guys wan to continue on with the effort to keep building, I'll join in and support however I can. 2 1 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lord_casek Posted May 23, 2021 Share Posted May 23, 2021 10-4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fat ralphy Posted May 23, 2021 Share Posted May 23, 2021 I mean its super basic but here is the guideline used for one of the subreddits I frequent. Essentially just cutting down on unnecessary posts, directing the more low quality content to stickies and general advice of don’t be a cock. Now keep in mind there would be numerous threads posted in this sub - so this is more of an overview guideline. I imagine each area on the forum would have its own guidelines. ie Channel Zero, Crossfire, Lifestyle, Brickslayers etc Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fat ralphy Posted May 23, 2021 Share Posted May 23, 2021 (edited) Interesting comparison would be r/dankmemes which sees likely millions of users. The rules are fucking plentiful but I like that they have an edge to them. Plus it directly address some of the cock puppetry type shit we see here from time to time that make things wack. And before all the “this isn’t Reddit” - no shit, just getting some relevant materials in for discussion. Edited May 23, 2021 by fat ralphy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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