READ ME: 12oz Community Project - Trying to rally you guys up to help push the forum forward.

[misteraven]

Putting this in Channel Zero to get as many eyes on it as possible. For the few people that don't swing through CH0 regularly, please shoot them a link or @ them in the comments.

 

So this has been discussed off and on for ages... Community Guidelines / Debate Framework. Back in the days we had rules and they were mostly effective, especially as we attracted new users. Most complex systems need structure and I really do believe that the experience here on 12oz would improve for most of us, if we had some basic structure to it. I believe we've managed to get this far without it, mainly because most of you guys have been here for ages and have a pretty good idea as to whats acceptable and what isn't, but we've also seen a lot of drama and even a few OG members drop off. Seeing the state of the world right now, I'm not surprised by how contentious conversations can get, especially when you also see how contentious graffiti can be to begin with. SO to that end, I have some requests and some proposals that I hope will see this project through and will put into place a framework to help make dialogue and discussions more interesting and successful, which in turn will help pave the way for some next steps I'd like to circle back to as far as promoting the brand, promoting the forum and capitalizing on the fact that every day that goes by, shit like Instagram becomes less interesting and less relevant.

 

For starters, I'd like to put together a diverse panel. This panel will be 5 people, with myself being the tie breaker. The other four panel members, ideally, will be composed of members with a balance in political and social outlook. In other words, I don't want a bunch of people that skew all conservative or all liberal. Ultimately, I believe the reference on how we approach the framework and rules themselves will be based off concepts like Natural Law / Rights. I think half, if not the majority of the panel should be community members rather than moderators. The entire purpose of moderators is to moderate, not to dictate and its a better reflection of the forum makeup.

 

I, myself, will have the right to veto. Likewise, if for whatever reason things aren't coming together, I'll just pull it together on my own. I'll say up front, that I don't want to approach this heavy handed and this is a genuine effort to have you guys help me engineer this, but 12oz is still private property that I've been bank rolling solo from day one. So I have an incentive to have it go off the rails or move in a direction that I don't have faith in.

 

I hugely encourage all of you to participate. You guys have devoted countless hours to this community, therefore its in your best interest to participate in this. Unlike traditional government election and legislation, you can actually have an impact on molding the future of our space here. Once we have our panel, which will be a combination of you guys making suggestions (popular opinion) and me filtering and selecting candidates based upon what I feel will lead to the best possible, balanced and productive solution, we'll move on to drafting a framework with input from the community. The panel will be responsible for drafting this as well as engaging with the community to refine and evolve the framework until we reach a standard we can implement. I'd like to think that everyone will be down to contribute since this is a new topic to explore and have fun with, as well as how this can ultimately make the forum much more enjoyable to engage in, but I'll also compensate the panel by kicking over $100 credit on the shop to be used now or when I finally get the next batch of tees out. I might even have some extra sold out release tees I can pull out of archive in case you missed it. Further, for non-panel members that really step up and go above and beyond, I'll kick over free packages as a thank you.

 

I'd very much like to see @Mercer as the first panel member as I know and trust him in real life, largely see the logic in his thinking and because I believe him to be well qualified in his knowledge of natural law / rights. Hopefully you'll accept. Either way, lets see everyone's suggestion for a balanced panel of 3 - 4 people. (Yes, you can nominate yourself).

 

Hopefully this will be productive and fun...

 

 

[where]

Push the culture forward!

[misteraven]

So in light of recent drama that's been brought to my attention, I'm going to also nominate @Dirty_habiT to join this panel. I realize he's butting heads with @Mercer at the moment and that's precisely why I feel nominating him makes sense. I honestly think in the end that they'd likely agree on the broad strokes, but in the spirit of adding balance to this effort, it makes sense to me.

 

I'd also like to nominate @abrasivesaint to this as I feel you're a great reflection of the community. You generally fall in what I see as a moderator category, but your recent comment in regards to capitalism shows you're willing to approach things with an open mind and rethink your position, as well as admit it publicly. Unfortunately, that's more the exception, than the rule these days and commendable trait.

 

Again, all of these are nominations... I hope they'd be supported and accepted, but obviously I cant make anyone participate.

 

Please do me a solid and @ a couple of the usual heads on the forum so this thread isn't overlooked. Hoping to finally implement this structure since we've literally talked about it for years.

 

cc: @One Man Banned @Joker @6Pennies @glorydays @nicklesndimes @mr.yuck @fat ralphy @NightmareOnElmStreet @Dark_Knight @diggity

[Dirty_habiT]

I'd nominate @where.

 

And thank you for your consideration, it is appreciated.

 

I'd also second @abrasivesaint because I agree he'd make a good board member.

[ndv]

Me pushing 12oz forward...

 

[Dark_Knight]

I’d be willing to help in any way. If not that’s cool too. Definitely want to see the forum grow again. Maybe get active writers back on here and off Instagram even. Just holla if you need me.

[Dirty_habiT]

9 minutes ago, Dark_Knight said:

I’d be willing to help in any way. If not that’s cool too. Definitely want to see the forum grow again. Maybe get active writers back on here and off Instagram even. Just holla if you need me.

 

I'd second you helping as well.

 

I've been taking the crews paintings and posting them in metal heads.... i dunno how much they want to get on here and talk about things, but they're definitely actively painting..... and we're getting first dibs on the photos before they're going to instagram, if they even are going on instagram.

[misteraven]

Going to nominate @Hua Guofangas well.

 

Appreciate those of you that have jumped in here so far. Again, this will be a group effort as a whole. Purpose of the panel is to help assemble the ideas and perhaps steer the conversation a bit, but at the end of the day, this isnt about me or you guys individually, admins / mods versus members, etc... This is about all of us attempting to improve the flow of conversation and community by establishing a framework that fosters the nuance and culture of our specific community.

 

Shit is long past due and any complex system will typically have a framework. Its obvious we need one and I think it'll be more obvious as we evolve past our group of mostly OG's on here and start to build visibility among strangers and new members.

[misteraven]

*By the way, I hope its obvious to everyone reading that I'm not looking for an echo chamber... Rather I've made selections based upon as diverse a perspective as I can think up, with the consistent characteristic being people that have paid dues on the forum and obviously care about what it represents... past, present and future (even if we sometimes differ on the path to getting there).

 

I'll give this a couple days to sit and gain traction. Again my picks so far are @Mercer @Dirty_habiT @abrasivesaint and @Hua Guofang. As backup, I'd suggest someone who's always shown a moderate / centrist perspective like @Jokeror @diggity.

[abrasivesaint]

50 minutes ago, misteraven said:

*By the way, I hope its obvious to everyone reading that I'm not looking for an echo chamber... Rather I've made selections based upon as diverse a perspective as I can think up, with the consistent characteristic being people that have paid dues on the forum and obviously care about what it represents... past, present and future (even if we sometimes differ on the path to getting there).

 

I'll give this a couple days to sit and gain traction. Again my picks so far are @Mercer @Dirty_habiT @abrasivesaint and @Hua Guofang. As backup, I'd suggest someone who's always shown a moderate / centrist perspective like @Jokeror @diggity.

I think that’s a solid list of folks with diverse opinions. I think @Kultsand @KILZ FILLZshould also be thrown in the hat of names as i feel they generally try to keep things on an even keel when someone like myself may tend to let emotions get the best of me. I was going to mention @Jokeras well, and if @Fist 666is still poking around i think he could have some contributions too.
 

Thanks for the nomination, i’m honored and have to admit some feelings of modesty. I do my best to keep an open mind and to remain civil these days. It’s easy to get wrapped up in the emotions and fly off the handle, and it’s important to try to check yourself, on the forum or in life in general. Admitting faults, or changing an opinion is not a weakness. In fact, i would argue it takes strength to do that, especially if the audience you’re speaking to is going to throw a “Ha! Told ya!” in your direction as a result. Humility is good for us at times. 
 

I think the nature of what brought us all to this forum initially is proof in itself that we all have bit of an ego, whether it’s genuine or a mask of our insecurities, and that we may not shy from certain aspects of life, like confrontation. Being on the internet makes it that much easier to just fire off silly comments and insults and walk away. I’m guilty of it for sure. I recently said some silly shit and went back and deleted the comment a few minutes later because i realized it was a pointless thing to say. It made me feel good in the moment to hurl an insult, but once it settled in my head, it seemed foolish and unproductive to the conversation.

 

I was suspended for hurling insults at one point, and I stayed away for longer than my suspension, because i knew i still had nothing nice to say, and i try to respect that @misteravenis striving for things, and people, to be better here on the forum, and in life.
 

I think it’s fair that we all should strive for the same respect for the forum, and others. Naturally we’re all human and can fly off the rails, but we can also reel it back in, if we choose to. 

Edited May 21, 2021 by abrasivesaint

[misteraven]

1 hour ago, abrasivesaint said:

I think that’s a solid list of folks with diverse opinions. I think @Kultsand @KILZ FILLZshould also be thrown in the hat of names as i feel they generally try to keep things on an even keel when someone like myself may tend to let emotions get the best of me. I was going to mention @Jokeras well, and if @Fist 666is still poking around i think he could have some contributions too.
 

Thanks for the nomination, i’m honored and have to admit some feelings of modesty. I do my best to keep an open mind and to remain civil these days. It’s easy to get wrapped up in the emotions and fly off the handle, and it’s important to try to check yourself, on the forum or in life in general. Admitting faults, or changing an opinion is not a weakness. In fact, i would argue it takes strength to do that, especially if the audience you’re speaking to is going to throw a “Ha! Told ya!” in your direction as a result. Humility is good for us at times. 
 

I think the nature of what brought us all to this forum initially is proof in itself that we all have bit of an ego, whether it’s genuine or a mask of our insecurities, and that we may not shy from certain aspects of life, like confrontation. Being on the internet makes it that much easier to just fire off silly comments and insults and walk away. I’m guilty of it for sure. I recently said some silly shit and went back and deleted the comment a few minutes later because i realized it was a pointless thing to say. It made me feel good in the moment to hurl an insult, but once it settled in my head, it seemed foolish and unproductive to the conversation.

 

I was suspended for hurling insults at one point, and I stayed away for longer than my suspension, because i knew i still had nothing nice to say, and i try to respect that @misteravenis striving for things, and people, to be better here on the forum, and in life.
 

I think it’s fair that we all should strive for the same respect for the forum, and others. Naturally we’re all human and can fly off the rails, but we can also reel it back in, if we choose to. 

 

passing you a virtual bro hug, my dude.

[Joker]

@misteraven @abrasivesaint

 

I do appreciate throwing my name into the hat but life- mostly work - is too hectic for me to spend as much time in here as I'd like to. I can certainly keep my eyes open for shenanigans but I cannot be a regular, unfortunately. At least not for any solid length of time at the moment. Hopefully once the world get's its shit together and brands want to get back to spending money on retail experiences I can hire some designers to help me and in turn give myself a break. 

 

I'll continue to do my best to keep the Toys Post Here thread alive with good content, and keep the posts civil.

[Kults]

5 hours ago, Dirty_habiT said:

I'd nominate @where.

 

And thank you for your consideration, it is appreciated.

 

I'd also second @abrasivesaint because I agree he'd make a good board member.

 

Second @where third @abrasivesaint and Id add @Dark_Knight to the mix

[where]

When I get a tv show I wont turn my back. 

[fat ralphy]

Solid idea all around - those of us that spend time here would like to see the forum kept up as far as decorum and that will definitely take influence of the OG’s who have been vetted.

 

Willing to help in anyway. I echo the nomination of@Mercer and @KILZ FILLZ , additionally I feel@Dirty_habiTis reasonable choice and has been here long enough to understand the group consciousness

 

Ultimately I fall into the “it’s the internet” camp and therefore do my best not to take things personally. I have always felt 12oz is a place that we can express ourselves with impunity providing we are being reasonable/adult. There are not many places where this level of expression exists and I think it is important we protect it.

[fat ralphy]

Also @lord_casek is a member I think has been super consistent and long term - may not be here as often as we all were years back. But a notable OG and smart dude...

[LUGR]

I nominate @morton

 

He is very wise

[lord_casek]

I'd like to throw my vote toward  @fat ralphy @abrasivesaint @Dark_Knight

 @Hua Guofang and @where


 

[mr.yuck]

Are we nominating non mods? This is tough. I enjoy everyone around heres special brand of horseshit.

 

@abrasivesaint

 

@Mercer

 

@Dark_Knight

 

@wherebut only if @One Man Bannedis along for the ride.

 

Also Id be remiss to not nominate myself. @mr.yuck

 

 

 

[lord_casek]

44 minutes ago, fat ralphy said:

Ultimately I fall into the “it’s the internet” camp and therefore do my best not to take things personally. I have always felt 12oz is a place that we can express ourselves with impunity providing we are being reasonable/adult. There are not many places where this level of expression exists and I think it is important we protect it.

I feel somewhat like this. Here it's a little different, though. We knew each other before politics became so divisive and we were all cool with each other. There isn't any reason to 
divide ourselves over what is happening everywhere else. 

 

[abrasivesaint]

I mean really i think most if not all people around here these days could be good nominations. I feel a little biased because I've been staying mostly around the News section as of late, haha. 

[fat ralphy]

This place has real potential and I have been drawn back more in the last year....maybe something good to come out of this pandemic.

 

I enjoy the forum. I would like to see it become a mini version of Reddit, more focused to our culture. 

 

 

[lord_casek]

33 minutes ago, fat ralphy said:

This place has real potential and I have been drawn back more in the last year....maybe something good to come out of this pandemic.

 

I enjoy the forum. I would like to see it become a mini version of Reddit, more focused to our culture. 

 

 

12oz is and always will be leaps and bounds better than reddit's multiple graffiti subreddits. 
 

[Dirty_habiT]

36 minutes ago, fat ralphy said:

This place has real potential and I have been drawn back more in the last year....maybe something good to come out of this pandemic.

 

I enjoy the forum. I would like to see it become a mini version of Reddit, more focused to our culture. 

 

 

 

I agree but reddit's upvoting system fucks off conversation IMO.  That place and every sub in it is just a bunch of echo chambers.  If you want to talk about a subject you can go on there and find any group to circle jerk with but don't dare to post any unpopular opinion because you'll be smited by some neckbeard.

 

I think what we have is better than reddit and I'd honestly enjoy seeing the demise of social media.  I'm still interested to this day to hear people reason to me about why they still want to use social media despite all the problems they've created by censoring information.  They've literally steered the narrative of the entire planet for the past ~decade.  Politicians found this out and got in their pocket, or put them in their pocket, however which way that needed to work.  It's maddening and I feel that this site is one of the few sanctuaries on the internet that is still left where people can have differing opinions.

 

I 100% agree that Kilz and Kults have done an excellent job being moderators and I'd like to see both of them continue to moderate.... even if they're the only two doing it.  I'd actually prefer they were the only two mods because the others aren't even active (no offense to any inactive mods that may be reading here).

[fat ralphy]

@Dirty_habiT When I say Reddit - I mean the increased traffic and the volume of threads/info. You have to wade through some shit but the sheer volume of info is insane and there are always some great posts to be found.

 

Shit is pretty cutting edge and relevant but agree there is some major circle jerks going on.....sometimes that shit happens here too but on a small scale. But your points are accurate when you talk about the manipulation and the outside influence- this is where I imagine 12oz can do what it does best. Stay in its lane and do the ooontz thing. 

Edited May 22, 2021 by fat ralphy

[fat ralphy]

@lord_casekthose subs are so shit dude - haha couldn’t agree more.

 

Shit I dig on Reddit - music and vinyl threads. Some of the subs relevant to the area I live. BJJ sub etc

 

Funny story - a few weeks ago some dude posts a killer collection of RATM records in the vinyl subreddit. I think to myself.....hmmmm @-Rage-would dig this. 

 

Ends up he is the fucking OP. 

[Dirty_habiT]

How cool would it be if karen's decended upon this site trying to cancel us with their cancel culture and were met  with replies like, show us your tits.  Lol.

[fat ralphy]

@Dirty_habiT that would be rad. I made the juggalo troll myspace page a few infiltrated and of course were obliterated......man that was a good thread.

Edited May 22, 2021 by fat ralphy

[lord_casek]

1 hour ago, fat ralphy said:

@Dirty_habiT When I say Reddit - I mean the increased traffic and the volume of threads/info. You have to wade through some shit but the sheer volume of info is insane and there are always some great posts to be found.

 

Shit is pretty cutting edge and relevant but agree there is some major circle jerks going on.....sometimes that shit happens here too but on a small scale. But your points are accurate when you talk about the manipulation and the outside influence- this is where I imagine 12oz can do what it does best. Stay in its lane and do the ooontz thing. 

reddit can never recreate the sense of community that a forum can create. a bunch of us have been oontzing since we were teens. we've had a whole lot of fun together over the years and redditors will really never know that or understand it. 

[lord_casek]

1 hour ago, fat ralphy said:

@lord_casekthose subs are so shit dude - haha couldn’t agree more.

 

Shit I dig on Reddit - music and vinyl threads. Some of the subs relevant to the area I live. BJJ sub etc

 

Funny story - a few weeks ago some dude posts a killer collection of RATM records in the vinyl subreddit. I think to myself.....hmmmm @-Rage-would dig this. 

 

Ends up he is the fucking OP. 

there are a few good subs I've found, as well. it's just information to me, though. I don't feel like I could talk to those people about anything more than their professions. 

I just posted Hope Solo's butthole in a thread. Where else could I do that and still get a laugh? 
 

Edited May 22, 2021 by lord_casek