3D Printed Guns - Is Self Defense Now Guaranteed Human Right?

[Mercer]

 

Edited November 25, 2020 by Mercer

[Dirty_habiT]

Polycarbonate  and ASA.... either of which is plenty strong for this purpose.

[KILZ FILLZ]

Don’t forget to print some glock lowers too

 

id be super down with having a bright red glock lower 

[Mercer]

In a pinch this is super handy to have on deck just incase. If you can print a new lower at will, it pretty much makes them disposable from a cost perspective.

 

 

Considering getting one of these to make stocking stuffers for next year:

 

 

Feels illegal, but totally isn't.

 

[Mercer]

 

 

 

[Dirty_habiT]

I want to get the pocket NC five axis mill that johnnyq90 uses. I'm sure that will easily do the same as ghost gunner. However the cost is like $6500 I think. 

[Dirty_habiT]

No, you'd have to have a way of cleaning it up and turning it back into filament that is 1.75mm in diameter..... which you very likely don't have ability to do.

[Dirty_habiT]

[Dirty_habiT]

https://www.wsj.com/articles/ghost-gun-company-raided-by-federal-agents-11607670296

[ndv]

21 minutes ago, Dirty_habiT said:

https://www.wsj.com/articles/ghost-gun-company-raided-by-federal-agents-11607670296

I thought there was a similar company in California that was selling build kits that was raided by ATF a few years back, however, the guy beat the federal charges because the lowers were 80% complete which he left the remaining 20% for firing to be complete by customer. 

Of course this is if i remember the details correctly.  

 

Anyhow, this article sounds the same tactic the ATF pulled on foresaid dude in cali.  Which basically the ATF just assumed merit, but in court it was later found there was no law governing anything defined illegal and the case made the ATF look like they were just pulling something out of thin air.  Although, I am not sure if this is the case for this company, don't know because I didn't subscribe to read the rest of the article.  But interesting.  

As for tax evasion, that's a different story.

[KILZ FILLZ]

@ndvi believe you are thinking of Ares Armor. Dude was a G. Filed a restraining order against the ATF when his lawyer gave him a heads up on the raid. Eventually got 5,985 of the 6,000 lowers that ATF stole from him... and sued for the “missing” 15 the ATF “lost”. Then won a $1 (one dollar) lawsuit against San Diego Sheriffs  Dept for some shit they pulled too. I think they shut down his credit card machine or something like that. Was a while ago now. 

———

the motive for both of these raids is to get a list of customers...

[ndv]

21 minutes ago, KILZ FILLZ said:

@ndvi believe you are thinking of Ares Armor. Dude was a G. Filed a restraining order against the ATF when his lawyer gave him a heads up on the raid. Eventually got 5,985 of the 6,000 lowers that ATF stole from him... and sued for the “missing” 15 the ATF “lost”. Then won a $1 (one dollar) lawsuit against San Diego Sheriffs  Dept for some shit they pulled too. I think they shut down his credit card machine or something like that. Was a while ago now. 

———

the motive for both of these raids is to get a list of customers...

 

 

that sounds right. 

as for the list, this makes sense. 

[Mercer]

[Dirty_habiT]

I know people are resin printing these things but I just don't think resin is strong enough.  I've done a lot of resin prints already and none of the resins I've used (a variety) seem to have properties that I would want in a tool like this.

 

I just upgraded my Prusa w/a Mosquito hotend and upgraded Bondtech extruder.  I also replaced some of the stock PETG printed parts on the Prusa with some SLS metal sintering made 3d parts.

[KILZ FILLZ]

I have that same resin concern for ar lowers, specifically at the fwd and aft take down pins. It just seems like the holes would oblong after not too long. Easy solution would to slide a small metallic bushing in there to take the wear instead of the polymer but then that would throw a wrench in the gears for the detent pin and springs that the take down pins are secured with. 
 

I think these issues and concerns are why you see people making lots of these lowers at a time. So they can discard as they wear. 
 

 

[ndv]

I see your point in the last statement @KILZ FILLZ  when I think 3D printed firearms I think more in the lines of print, kill, destroy the tool.  Basically a one use thing.  Pretty cheap and discreet I guess. 

[Dirty_habiT]

I think it's a misconception that 3d printed guns are for murdering only. I bet a very very tiny fraction have been used for crimes. Remember the barrier to entry here is understanding quite a bit of technical information.

[Dirty_habiT]

 

[KILZ FILLZ]

The folks going 3D printed seem to be more interested in not having their name in a data base with a gun S/N than anything else. Was the same way with the 80% lowers. 

[Dirty_habiT]

Posted by the leader of one of the groups.... again not going to share the name for ..... reasons.

 

Hey @here – I’m afraid I’ve got unfortunate news. We recently learned that keybase will no longer allow 3D printed gun content/discussion on it’s platform – while we suspected this was coming after zoom acquired keybase, we have now confirmation of that.

While this will be a little speedbump, we have already set up a self-hosted instance of rocketchat over at https://chat.----redacted----.com/home. This chat should have most of the features that keybase offered – the only thing sorely missing will be KBFS, though we are actively experimenting with a couple replacements for KBFS. More on that later.

The new server will have the same rules, same basic layout, but a few different modes of operation. Betas will be handled a little differently, and the look and feel will take a little getting used to – but discussions can be curated into side rooms easily, and the overall clutter of the chat should be resolved.

So, on the evening of 1/20/21, this chat (----redacted----- on keybase) will be locked down, all rooms will be deleted, and KBFS will be purged. The team will stay up, but only with one channel that has a locked message that will contain the link to our new home and a brief commentary on why we moved.

I’ve enjoyed using keybase, but with Biden taking office, it’s best that we moved off of a platform that we don’t host ourselves anyway – the costal liberals who run zoom would take great pleasure at banning us without warning at Joe’s request, so I do appreciate keybase’s legacy staff giving us prior warning of the pending enforcement action against us.

I am sure that the move will not slow our progress, and look forward to seeing you all in our new home – the future holds many challenges and promises. Until next time, keep your printers warm and your minds clear.

 

[Dirty_habiT]

 

Not related to 3d printing, but related to the crackdown I mentioned in the previous post.

[Dirty_habiT]

Anderson here, just some comments because of some bad actors and newcomers showing up to our community.

For all you new comers who wanted to see what we are all about, and are interested in our community, thank you for stopping by, welcome to our community. That said, I have to address some things since i've been seeing lots of bad actors going through our communities' submissions and talking a lot of shit. It'll be some FAQ shit, or some statement and response shit of things i've seen and read, and wanted to solve all this in one whole bite.

 

1. What political ideology does ----- fall under?

Answer: None. ----- prides itself as the "watering hole" of all 3d printed firearms and devices, we do not have any political motivations other than to act as an umbrella that encompasses anyone who wishes to show off their builds, share their builds (which is not allowed on Reddit btw), or ask questions and make discussions about meta topics. That said, it is very common to hear a lot of political talk, and that's because folks within the community come from all walks of life. Someone who 3d prints guns could just be some ordinary guy, a business man, a MAGA supporter (me btw), some Communists, or Socialists, some democrat, liberal, or Republican. We come from everywhere, its like as if 4Chan found some ender 3's for a discount at the local microcenter, but stole it anyways and people started printing shit, and that resulted in us, -----.

2. Is 3d printing firearms safe?

Answer: Great question, and I can totally understand newcomers who are hesitant. Rest assured, the answer is actually dicey, because just like firearms, no two models are identical. Your answer depends on what the design is made for, and how well those designs have been tested. I have to be honest: there are some questionable designs. You have to remember that 3d printed firearms are a completely new frontier of technological developments, and like the wright brothers who discovered powered flight, extreme risks have been taken to fully understand the nature of the beast we are developing. If the models you are trying to understand do not contain any significant pressure bearing components, or components that have to deal with the containing of the explosion of a spent cartridge or the discharge of black powder, these designs are safe. In other words, if the models you are printing do not involve making a barrel, or bolt face, or must eat the full recoil of a spent cartridge, it is safe. If the designs you are printing have been tested, and this testing has been documented, you can use those results to confirm any suspicions you may have regarding the safety of 3D printing firearms. Many 3d printed firearms submitted through large communities cannot happen without extensive screenings by a board of experienced gunsmiths. They will demand documentation, proofs, and best, betas that had users printed and verify these designs. I will always ensure my designs work, and I master every part of the firearm I am designing for. That said I am an AR guy, because I design my things for Americans or anyone who loves and chooses freedom first freedom only, but there will always be folks who design everything they can. If you have to ask yourself what you are printing and why, its better to stop your printer, and study everything you can about what firearms you are trying to print for first. Knowledge is the lack of ignorance, and ignorance breeds fear. If you are confident and knowledgeable about what it is you are aiming for, you will make the first and major leap into the community.

3. What material should I start with and why?

Answer: That actually depends on the make and model of what you are aiming for. Typically most folks will scream e-sun PLA+. This has some merits behind it, but I will tell you why its misleading. Firearms are diverse, and not every receiver will eat the same level of forces they are design to withstand. We are fucking around at the very razor thin margin of material science, we can't just tell everyone to get PLA+ and be happy. There's a reason why many different types of filaments exists, and its all because they serve some unique and niche purpose. Some filaments are designed to only look cool, some are designed to be easier to print and set up, while some are design to eat shock forces, and others designed to be as precise as they can go. As such, it is irresponsible to tell folks to buy PLA+ and call it a day. RESEARCH what models folks are going to print for first, and what design, and if the creators placed a preferred filament for that design, than scream the material out. Do not become complacent and yell PLA+ at everything anything. If a user says they want to print something that is close to the real thing, its better to tell them to Nylon for glock frames, than to print PLA+ for glock frames, even if PLA+ works well with glock frames, because instead of resorting to the generic response (PLA+), you took into consideration about what they wanted out of their build (closest to the real thing, and not the easiest thing that just works). That said I design my things to work best with PLA+, because its the cheapest, most accessible, easiest to set up, universally used filament for all applications of general 3d printing. Even though technically Nylon or Zytel is better, their cost does not respect what I want out of my designs for Americans: easy to get, easy to set up, easy to print. That does not mean buy PLA+. That means research what you want out of your gun, than make the best choices you have. If that means buying PLA+, than so be it. Just don't resort to it "because everyone else is." Make sure you know what your printer can take as well. Ender 3's dont work with Nylon.

4. Is 3d printing good enough to replace "real" firearms?

Answer: No. Thats the truth, and the answer is No. That does not, however, in any significant way, prevent us from doing what we do: We will continue to design firearms. We will continue to make them. And no, engineers, scientists, "experts", will not change our minds. What people need to understand is that we have an opportunity to use 3d printing as a way of procuring firearms for whatever agenda we want to. For some, it is a way to circumvent unconstitutional edict, for others, it is for funsies and cool fads. 3d printed guns are here to stay. They will become a part of society, and that is the reality you will have to face. It is no different when the experts told the coo coo shaman that you cannot lob a sharp stick with a bented stick and a string. It is no different when the Chinese was told that loading flammable powder in a metal tube with sharp shards and lighting it is a stupid idea. It is no different when the Koreans placed tiny rockets on their arrows, and lobbed hundreds of them at charging Calvary, spooking the horses and causing routs, only to be ridiculed for their use of "inaccurate and crude" weapons. 3d printed firearms are here to stay, and no amount of "Glass transitioning of PLA is 50c" or the "leave your PLA gun in a hot car see what happens" is going to change our minds; It won't. You just hate the idea that some people manage to get a gun to work in something it wasn't suppose to and apparently the idea that free people, no matter the political, ethical, or cultural backgrounds getting a chance of arming themselves is an idea so stupid you had to pull the science to run your agenda to get us to stop. It won't. History is full of "you won't do it, you can't do it, and even if you do, science is going to throw a nasty book at you," and the people who made the effort to combat that nonsense is why the modern world is permeated with technologies unheard of before in the past 50 years. In other words, you have to have a very narrow mindset if you think that the material science limitations is going to stop someone from trying to surpass that obstacle. Spoiler alert: it won't. You are fucking with the same society that landed man on the moon using a brick with less computational power than your pocket computer you used to access this website. It ain't happening, and ordinary people, powered by whatever belief they have, whether its that 3d printing is simply cool, or the belief of communism, or the belief of freedom and liberty, is not going to be stopped because someone said it can't happen won't happen. Because it just happened, and it will continue to happen, can't stop the signal, point blank.

5. Is it acceptable to make posts about questions?

Answer: If it relates to exclusively 3d printing in general, no, its better to bring it to subs that specialize in general 3d printing. Just pretend you are printing some normie shit like the boat benchy and ask why your print is warping, lifting, making weird noises, etc. But if your issue related directly to a specific model, does not appear to able to be replicated on normie shit, or relates to specs or confusion in instructions or assembly, this is exactly where your question belongs. If you got no idea which category your failed print falls under, just stop trying to print guns, and print some normie shit first, and see if the issue can be replicated with normie shit. If the issue arises with normie prints, go ask for help in general 3d printing subs. If not, than itll fall under this sub, and make sure to STATE that the issue does not occur when printing normal shit, indicating the possibility of a design flaw or a esoteric issue related to your specific set up.

6. Is it illegal to print guns?

Answer: Not yet. Not in the U.S it isn't, but laws vary from region to region, state to state. This answer does not apply if you live outside of the U.S. If you know its illegal to print, and do so anyways, thank you for your bravery, but consider the consequences of posting your shit online. Wipe the meta data of everything you post. As for me personally, I don't give a rat's ass if they make 3d printed toys illegal. Im going to print them out. If they want to stop me, they can come to my house and we can have a loud fun party. Thats just me, like I said, we all come from all walks of life, and what I do personally does not represent -----. Like the retards of Wall Street Bets would say, Im not a firearms expert, This is not firearms instructions and or advice. I just like 3d printers.

7. Is {insert 3d model here} better than {insert opposing model here}?

Answer: I don't know. Theres only one way to find out. What I will say is that because I made my own design, no fucking shit im going to brag about my own design, and piss in the mouths of others. That's just ego and good ole fashion American bullshit. Of course if you ask me, the Hellfire is superior to the U-Bolt, superior to the fire-bolt, superior to the Print Your 2A Lower. Thats like asking if the engineers of the Lambo if the Lambo is better than the Porsche: No fucking shit theyll root for their team. But I know im right, just like when i said that Tom Brady will win the super bowl. Spoiler alert: he fucking did. However, my honest answer is that every design has its merits, and the only way to find out what you want is if you try them all. My design merits is that it uses no hobby lobby, lowes, or home depot bolts and external metal bits of any kind, while the u-bolts merits is that it uses a u-bolt (shocking, I know). The merits of a unicorn bayonet is that it represents the horn of a fucking narwhal, and people like that, even if you serves no practical purpose. Your best bet isn't to ask, but to try.

8. Is there an alternative to 3d printed firearms, if so, why not that alternative?

Answer: There are alternatives. You can just buy a gun, and run through a background check and pay unconstitutional taxes on that transaction, and have it register through a federal list of future homes to raid for mass confiscation. You can also use an end mill and lathe and make your gun from the ground up. All you have to do is pay several thousand dollars to go to a technical/trade school on how to operate industrial machinery, use CAD then CAM to get that g-code, upload it into the machine, then through several stages taking several hours every day for a week or two, assemble your firearm. If you want a wooden stock, youll need to pick up wood working as a hobby for several years before you make a stock that looks pretty enough to your standard. Dont forget that you gotta buy the machines and their licenses for another several tens of thousands of dollars, pay the taxes for the property used to house those machines, and pay inspection fees for those machines. Or, what you could do is walk into a Fry's electronics or Microcenter, buy a 3d printer, paying no fees for certificates of anykind, go online, download g-codes of already existing designs that takes hundreds of hours of development that you didnt need to do, print the gun, and when you try to ask the designer if you could tip them for their work, their response is "I don't take donations of anykind. I only ask that you remember that America is great, America is good, America is why freedom unironically exists, and that 3d printing firearms was spear headed by Americans to protect the freedoms of other Americans and humanity as a whole. America is the greatest nation on earth." You could do that, and save yourself hundreds of hours. So yea, there are alternatives.

9. Why is 3d printing guns not national news?

Answer: We are working very hard NOT to make it on national news. The problem is that we have to balance viral shit, and getting people to print. If you make shit too viral, you get the attention of the alphabet bois (FBI, CIA, ATF, FTA, FIB, ABC, DEF, GHI, JIK, LMN, OPQ, LBGBTQWERTY). The alphabet bois will stop our signal and scare off others from trying to get the signal. But we also have to let society know that the signal exists. This is where someone like Ivan comes in. By getting one guy to do all the media shit, you can control the signal to hit a sweet spot: not enough to glow in the dark for the alphabet bois, but glow enough to let others know its there. Rest assured, there are gloweys within our ranks: we are well aware of this, however, by not glowing in the dark, we remain harmless, like an undisturbed rattle snake. It is only when someone steps on us intentionally do we lash out, but until then, we dont fuck with them, and they dont fuck with us, and we continue to operate in the dark. Do not try to make it on the news. It will not help the signal, but at the same time, if it does get on the news, it needs to be natural and spontaneous, meaning there must not be any underlying ulterior motive for making it on the news. To make this happen, we must first nurture a culture that encourages what we do. Instead of making it on national news because someone in our community did a hit and run with a 3d printed glock, we make it on the news because someone showed up to a pro 2a rally with a 3d printed ar lower. One paints a picture that we are nothing but violent thugs. Another paints a picture of normal people protesting. Pick your poison. Dont show up on the news. I have to admit that Im the crazy uncle of the group. If theres going to be an issue with this, itll usually show up because of me. Thats why you have to give thanks to moderators and media team for keeping me in check. Thank them, not me.

10. What can I do to contribute to the cause?

Answer: Literally all you have to do is print 3d guns. That's literally the best way to help. Sure, you can design things like I did with the Anderson Firearms series of rifles, but thatll be too much work, and it won't pay off unless you really like designing shit, which I do. By printing your own firearm, you did enough. People will ask what you bought to the range. Friends will ask wtf kind of gun is that. Folks will start conversations, and you can always interject with something cool. Making firearms cool to talk about again is really where we are hitting at. Trying to eliminate the notion that 3d printing is scary is really where we want to hit at. Me however, being the crazy fucking uncle hiding in the shack printing away like its the end of the earth, is not contributing. Im just making a private militia in the event of a societal collapse. However, you, the average joe, showing off a 3d printed lower to some friends or a glock frame, will have contributed more than what I do for the past 2 years. Whereas you are creating positive culture, I am preparing for war. Trust me, take it from the guy who makes up half of this subreddit's submissions of show-offs: printing guns and talking about it like normal folks is more contribution than what iam doing, which is designing guns like im trying to arm a small army. You are better than me by being normal, and as much as I hate to admit it, I am not normal. I am radicalized. You are not. That means that you got a better chance at life than me. Take that opportunity while you still can, and stick to just printing.

11. What do I have to do to start designing?

Answer: My first design came out when I was still in High school. Im sure you can jump on the train too. Start by studying CAD, and start practicing with some CAD software. Try designing something you like, and continue designing small things. I started designing small shot glasses for show. Then I tried designing a simple toy car. Than I designed some cool small shit like models that can be hooked to my key chain. From there, you will eventually reach the leap into guns. You can always start at anytime, just like me.

[Dirty_habiT]

^^Posted 4 days ago.

[Dirty_habiT]

 

[Mercer]

Home made solutions for people don't like to shoot straight.

 

[Dirty_habiT]

I can't believe people think PLA is a good idea to use for this kind of thing. It's almost exclusively what the 2a community is recommending but it sucks dick as a structural plastic.

 

Lots of people out there messing with this stuff and have not the first clue about any sort of gunsmithing. 

[Dirty_habiT]

Gig will be up soon. No point in 3d printing a lower or frame if you can no longer purchase parts kits.  

[Dirty_habiT]

On 12/19/2020 at 6:20 PM, KILZ FILLZ said:

I have that same resin concern for ar lowers, specifically at the fwd and aft take down pins.

 

This issue is addressed with replaceable takedown pin bosses.

 

 

 

[misteraven]

On 4/9/2021 at 11:19 PM, Dirty_habiT said:

Gig will be up soon. No point in 3d printing a lower or frame if you can no longer purchase parts kits.  

Whats the issue regarding parts kits? I know Covid has shit backed up, but I’ve added to my parts kits recently with no issue. Likewise, if you know what you’re doing, $100 or so would get you enough pins and springs for a good 30 builds. (Wouldn’t use a trigger out of a parts kit). 

[Dirty_habiT]

21 minutes ago, misteraven said:

Whats the issue regarding parts kits? I know Covid has shit backed up, but I’ve added to my parts kits recently with no issue. Likewise, if you know what you’re doing, $100 or so would get you enough pins and springs for a good 30 builds. (Wouldn’t use a trigger out of a parts kit). 

 

The new legislation they're trying to push will basically require you to register a trashcan full of aluminum cans as a firearm that can be assembled in less than 8h.

 

This doesn't mean they will pursue charging people with every single little thing, but it will be something they use to turn companies selling kits into felons overnight.  It will basically say they're selling firearms without a license.

 

Again, I don't think they'd use it on everyone, but it's like a trump card they'll pull when it benefits them and when they want to raid a business to collect their belongings.

 

You can still get parts kits currently, but I don't think this will continue to be something you can buy if they are able to get this new bill voted in.

 

https://www.congress.gov/bill/116th-congress/house-bill/1266/

 

https://thehill.com/homenews/senate/552988-democrats-reintroduce-legislation-to-ban-ghost-guns

 

Basically under this law, anything that can be made into a firearm in 8h has to be registered.