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Tonight’s debate.


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1 hour ago, Mercer said:

Been studying videos of Joe Biden, Jill keeps his ass from violating social distancing/rona. End of debate, famous body language moment Jill gives Joe victory hug, Trump gives Melania I'll get em next time arm pat Liberals like to highlight. Right after the clip, Joe's dumb ass goes up to the moderator to thank him for throwing Trump off, and violates social distance, but he almost has to drag Jill into that foul, moderator tells him "fuck off joe, no sniffs" off the mic.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

There's another video of them outdoors, he's got no mask and she pulls him back away from the people he's instinctually trying to shake hands with like a normal campaign where he sniffs people all day.

 

 

This social distancing thing might be preventing clips of Joe sniffing women, and babies. He's being prevented from violating personal space and post rona clips of him making people uncomfortable aren't circulating throughout the internet, and MSM like they would under normal circumstances. Another way rona is effecting the 2020 election. Between his wife playing wet nurse, and Harris keeping him stress free he's got a pretty effective campaign team.

Definitely a connoisseur of hair smells. He does it to remind himself what humans smell like everyday when he wakes up from the vat of Crispr plasma they use to keep him cognitive. 

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The difference between Antifa and the Proud Boys is that one is undercover and the other is off duty.    

Now we're talking. 

Didn't watch.  0 fucks given or lost.      

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I think you can simplify this further by highlighting a key part of @Mercer‘s reply. 
 

Supply and demand. 
 

If something is common to the point of being ubiquitous, it’s no longer exceptional but the norm. As such, it no longer has the value you would see from something that is exceptional. 
 

————
 

If reality was some Star Trek like utopia, in which money no longer has meaning and we can ensure everyone could chase whatever level of education they can wrap their brains around, then yeah... makes sense. In our real world, the practical application of that is a dumb idea, unless collectively, we’re all cool with footing the bill for everyone else to chase their intellectual pipe dreams. And then we’re also cool with the idea that having a degree earns you nothing extra since it’s expected now that everyone gets free college. 

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the "free college!" thing, as presented, is a nonstarter to me. in principle it's good, and i am 100% for supporting people going to school. other countries have it figured out. i took out, and paid back, $50k+ in loans on my own. 

 

but american universities have an out-of-control cost problem that's unique to us. no free college proposal i've seen wrestles with the expense of higher education, the cost of which has outpaced nearly every other economic index for 20-30 years. the *reasons* for this cost increase, well, pick one—the amenities arms race and associated maintenance costs, greatly expanded college administrations and staffs, and the ludicrous amount spent on sports are all good examples. 

 

and the value of a degree is way down! that's in part because of scam colleges and universities [heres my trump university degree] but also because of how many people have one now. the case for getting a degree is still strong vis-a-via not having one but as others have pointed out there's a great case for trade school. skilled tradespeople and those jobs get well into the six figures once you're experienced, take overtime, or start your own company. 

 

it is insane that we'd just shunt this expensive, underperforming system onto the federal balance sheet [well, maybe not, we have the F-35, after all]. but colleges would totally accept this if it meant no change to the underlying structure or its profitability. 

 

it's emblematic of broader liberal failure to confront bloated, comfortable and antiquated structures that are most workable and profitable to people who write checks to the democratic party. taking an ice pick to higher education is 100% what needs to happen if we're going to socialize it, but that's politically poisonous, so democrats won't. it's the affordable care act for universities: we just subsidize rent seeking industries, not attack any of the cost centers. fuck that. 

 

[thermonuclear take: this is also why any reparations bill that does not attempt to dismantle structures that perpetuate systemic racism is born to fail. but wealthy democrats will vote for it while continuing to block new low-income housing in their zip codes] 

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2 minutes ago, Elena Delle Donne said:

the "free college!" thing, as presented, is a nonstarter to me. in principle it's good, and i am 100% for supporting people going to school. other countries have it figured out. i took out, and paid back, $50k+ in loans on my own. 

 

but american universities have an out-of-control cost problem that's unique to us. no free college proposal i've seen wrestles with the expense of higher education, the cost of which has outpaced nearly every other economic index for 20-30 years. the *reasons* for this cost increase, well, pick one—the amenities arms race and associated maintenance costs, greatly expanded college administrations and staffs, and the ludicrous amount spent on sports are all good examples. 

 

and the value of a degree is way down! that's in part because of scam colleges and universities [heres my trump university degree] but also because of how many people have one now. the case for getting a degree is still strong vis-a-via not having one but as others have pointed out there's a great case for trade school. skilled tradespeople and those jobs get well into the six figures once you're experienced, take overtime, or start your own company. 

 

it is insane that we'd just shunt this expensive, underperforming system onto the federal balance sheet. but colleges would totally accept this if it meant no change to the underlying structure or its profitability. 

 

it's emblematic of broader liberal failure to confront bloated, comfortable and antiquated structures that are most workable and profitable to people who write checks to the democratic party. taking an ice pick to higher education is 100% what needs to happen if we're going to socialize it, but that's politically poisonous, so democrats won't. it's the affordable care act for universities: we just subsidize rent seeking industries, not attack any of the cost centers. fuck that. 

 

[thermonuclear take: this is also why any reparations bill that does not attempt to dismantle structures that perpetuate systemic racism is born to fail. but wealthy democrats will vote for it while continuing to block new low-income housing in their zip codes] 

Many great points. Agree with all of it myself except the bit that case for getting a degree is strong.
 

It’s been shown repeatedly at this point that on average the degree, over the course of the average professional career, rarely pays back its cost in the difference of earnings against an individual without a degree. Fact is, once your foot is in the door, career advancement and the compensation that goes with it, is most often tied to performance. Theoretically we could argue a person with a degree should perform better, but that really only holds true at the beginning of it. 
 

Seems social stigma, more than anything else, drives kids to go to college despite the notable debt and difficulties for them and their parents to foot that bill. Colleges have done an awesome job of engineering that and with help from the government have created a pretty great racket. Now it’s on the verge of caving in on itself so we see the mad dash to flip it by just agreeing we’ll all pay for it rather then the usual hoops of going severely into debt and adding to all the defaults. That way they can keep the racket running just a little longer. 

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In many cases It’s fucking laziness. “I don’t know what I want to do but I’ll go to school to figure it out (instead of being productive/contributing continue leaching 4 to 8 more years)”. Next thing you know, “I’m not paying this back, that blue collar worker there, we can just add it on to his taxes”.

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17 minutes ago, Mercer said:

In many cases It’s fucking laziness. “I don’t know what I want to do but I’ll go to school to figure it out (instead of being productive/contributing continue leaching 4 to 8 more years)”. Next thing you know, “I’m not paying this back, that blue collar worker there, we can just add it on to his taxes”.

I actually agree that we should bring back gladiators to get rid of a lot of people, but are you saying that doctors lawyers architects etc shouldn’t go to college or are you just talking about liberal arts degrees cause the credentials for those are there for a reason to limit eventually liability by training people to a universal standard, although California and Florida both have an apprenticeship path to practice law where if your parent is an attorney then you can take the bar exam without a juris doctor, probably explains some of the mess California is in, either way bring back the coliseum.

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4 hours ago, where said:

I actually agree that we should bring back gladiators to get rid of a lot of people, but are you saying that doctors lawyers architects etc shouldn’t go to college or are you just talking about liberal arts degrees cause the credentials for those are there for a reason to limit eventually liability by training people to a universal standard, although California and Florida both have an apprenticeship path to practice law where if your parent is an attorney then you can take the bar exam without a juris doctor, probably explains some of the mess California is in, either way bring back the coliseum.

Not sure if you’re really asking if I think there shouldn’t be any doctors or lawyers etc. lol

 

 

I’m saying people need to think before signing away tens of thousands of dollars. They need to think will this degree be worth that much money. Maybe it will bring you 900k increased earnings over a lifetime, maybe it’s worth paying back even if it’s not going to pay for itself. My point is I’m not paying for anyone else’s mistake while making that decision, if they regret their degree/debt it’s 100% not my fault.

 

If college attendance wasn’t distorted by these rules we all get together and think our great ideas, a college degree would pay for itself like it used to before the loan guarantees. Our government  guarantees large a debt to lenders who finance college for young people. Great program if you’re trying to avoid entering the workforce at the bottom of the food chain. So now you’ve got the perfect storm for people earning non stem degrees as you had mentioned liberal arts, basically with degrees they have no clue what entering the workforce with one will get them. Did I mention because the feds guarantee the loan, you can’t file for bankruptcy, and now you’re a slave not only to taxes, but paying back that predatory loan.

 

Sad? Yes. My fault, or responsibility, no. I’ve already have a communist dictatorship I’m 100% responsible for, my family. I only consent to be a cool dude and not violate the rights of everyone else, (especially able bodied young people) I do not accept responsibility for them. With that said why spread the burden of their poor decision out to burden everyone. You’re not exactly encouraging responsible behavior.

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I think following to Mercer's point(s), if people were to consider college as it should be... An investment in time, energy and money... That we'd see a much different dynamic happening. Further to that, lets pretend that the loans and aid applied to it required the same general qualifications as just about other loan, such as a mortgage or business loan... Requiring you to go to a bank and present what the money is being used for. So in order to actually be considered, you'd make a business case on why that degree is worth the money that is being asked of it and why you're a safe bet to borrow that money, which we know is substantial. So like a mortgage, they'd investigate the school and run comps as to how a degree from that school stacks up against other schools, what the average profession you're seeking pays and how its affected by other market based dynamics. Perhaps even structure it like a business loan in which you need to meet certain projections on a timeline so every quarter they check in to see if your progress is healthy enough for them to keep lending money to continue according to your projections and plan.

 

Sounds wild when you consider it against the current system, but we all know that if the government got out of the student loan business and stopped be the guarantor of last result, thats exactly what we'd be seeing. That and a lot of people being far more diligent about saving for college so they could skip the bullshit or at least minimize the need to borrow, very likely also making them think much harder about going to college, as well as what they want to pursue as far as a degree. No doubt you'd cut enrollment by orders of magnitude so those with a degree, that took all that time to set it up and achieve that goal would be fewer and far between. Not only would the degree be more valuable, but the burden on colleges to ensure they're delivering a product good enough to qualify all that would be far greater and I would presume we'd see far better educations being offered, as well as far more competition between schools to win your business.

 

Like @MercerI still have faith in an open market solution to most things. In the case of this, when we're discussing service / commodity, it would seem a no brainer. Likewise, as in most other instances, as soon as government steps in and decides to regulate and / or supplement the market, you can also expect that they'll fuck it all up. Capitalism isn't perfect, but neither is the human condition and compared to all other systems for commerce, seems about as close to perfect as we can get in practice.

 

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2 hours ago, Mercer said:

Not sure if you’re really asking if I think there shouldn’t be any doctors or lawyers etc. lol

 

 

I’m saying people need to think before signing away tens of thousands of dollars. They need to think will this degree be worth that much money. Maybe it will bring you 900k increased earnings over a lifetime, maybe it’s worth paying back even if it’s not going to pay for itself. My point is I’m not paying for anyone else’s mistake while making that decision, if they regret their degree/debt it’s 100% not my fault.

 

If college attendance wasn’t distorted by these rules we all get together and think our great ideas, a college degree would pay for itself like it used to before the loan guarantees. Our government  guarantees large a debt to lenders who finance college for young people. Great program if you’re trying to avoid entering the workforce at the bottom of the food chain. So now you’ve got the perfect storm for people earning non stem degrees as you had mentioned liberal arts, basically with degrees they have no clue what entering the workforce with one will get them. Did I mention because the feds guarantee the loan, you can’t file for bankruptcy, and now you’re a slave not only to taxes, but paying back that predatory loan.

 

Sad? Yes. My fault, or responsibility, no. I’ve already have a communist dictatorship I’m 100% responsible for, my family. I only consent to be a cool dude and not violate the rights of everyone else, (especially able bodied young people) I do not accept responsibility for them. With that said why spread the burden of their poor decision out to burden everyone. You’re not exactly encouraging responsible behavior.

I feel what you’re saying but it sheems like you have no problem with the spending of vastly more money on unexploded bombs to price fix the value of stem degrees, which doesn’t seem very laissez faire, but yea you’re right if some of these simps had to fight a lion in front a stadium this wouldn’t be as big of a problem.

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Theres a lot to catch up on here but heres my take from the piece I watched with Harris and Pence. Neither of them really answered any of the questions and didn't stick to the agreed upon time. Pence seemed to be worse about it and after this year I'd like to see them employee something that cut the mic after 2 min or they got a shot clock up or something along those lines.I'd also to hear the moderator call them out on not answering the question as they move on to the next question.

 

Most of the time when Harris opened her mouth she would prop up Biden rather than putting her own views or say that wouldn't happen under Joe's watch. 

At one point Pence came after her saying she was going to end fracking. She declared that they had no intention on stopping fracking ever.

There was a point where she was struggling and kinda shouted out something to the effect of "we're gonna legalize weed".

 

This is my take on the college debt based on nothing but my opinion. 

I think they are just trying to buy votes here. Its a mutated version of something Bernie floated out there that got traction with young folks. I don't think these two have any intention on full-filling it.  They are going to spend the majority of their time reversing all the shit Trump reversed from Obama. To tackle something this large it would most likely mean a two term presidency. Joe doesn't have two terms. which means that they are also going to have to put a lot of time and effort into propping Harris up as someone who can stand her own ground. 

 

Reporters at the end of the debate said that it was pretty much a tie which they declared a win for Biden since according to their polls was still way ahead. I don't think anyone really vote with the VP in mind but this is the one election where that should be top of mind for everyone since the age of these candidates. thats actually one of my largest concerns with Biden. Since there are so many people voting against Trump rather than for Biden, it seems like almost anyone would have had an easy win. why would the democrats not pick someone stronger.

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One more thing on the free College tip. I grew up in Georgia and we had the Hope grant - it was paid for by the lottery-  which when I graduated high school, as long as you kept a B average and went to a public college, college was pretty much free you add pale grant and some people even made money off going to school. Tech school was covered too. That said, I know people who didn't go even though they qualified and several that went for bullshit degrees that never panned out after school. Which brings me to why should Americans pay for the younger generation to be debt free from bad decisions they made or pay for future ones? Many states already have programs in place like Hope but you have to go to pubic colleges and tech schools to receive them.  So say people go to school and don't finish their degree or they flunk out, what if they do like my sister in law and go for 7 years for a 4 year degree because she never made up her mind and then still ends up in a job not using it? 

 

Perhaps another idea that could be floated out there is to teach kids in school what debt really is and how it can effect you long term so you will know if its worth going for that degree you have your eyes set on.

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3 minutes ago, abrasivesaint said:

I initially read this as “cut the mic or they get shot,” and i like that idea too. 

The way this year is, I think they should lock all 4 of them in a room together with covid and last one standing gets the job.

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14 hours ago, where said:

I feel what you’re saying but it sheems like you have no problem with the spending of vastly more money on unexploded bombs to price fix the value of stem degrees, which doesn’t seem very laissez faire, but yea you’re right if some of these simps had to fight a lion in front a stadium this wouldn’t be as big of a problem.

I have a problem with all government spending, not just the majority of it (that goes towards military killing folks) but every last penny. That's not to say that I'm denying that the government can do great things sometimes, and benefit society. My thing is, it's impossible to arrange a hegemonic governance system that doesn't cause net harm, or a net loss to society.

 

  • Nationalists think they've got a cool hack where State based harm/violence is directed at "the other" and their society benefits
  • Socialists think they can direct most of that harm/violence towards the rich/non-believers and their society will somehow benefit. lol
  • Minarchists think they can limit the obvious net harm caused by a Hegemonic State, with a magical legal document limiting it's power/scope. big fucking lolz

 

All three are retarded wrong. Any time I see people simp'n for these insignificant side benefits the state affords them, It doesn't tip my scales of value. The pro's  are vastly outweighed by the con's side on my scales. So it's not that I wan't less people in school, or less help for the poor, or whatever people think only a state can achieve, I simply despise the state. Believing hegemony is the only/best route to me is like some dumb ass parent thinking beating their child half to death in an effort to alter their behavior is the responsible thing to do. Yea, spanking does work, but there's this other method that requires a little more thought that's vastly superior.

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  • 2 weeks later...

I think best quote was trump saying he was "the least racist person in the room" then went on about how dark the room was and that he couldn't see who was in there.

 

I feel like Biden is promising everyone that will listen whatever they want. He's green but going to keep on fracking. everyone should have a $15 min wage. he's going to fix healthcare. etc which is fairly normal for presidents I guess. I'm not sure how he expects to do that in only 4 years. especially since he will have to spend those 4 years propping up Harris to take the throne once it's done. 

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2 minutes ago, Dark_Knight said:

I couldn’t watch. Too frustrating.

 

Imma need one alt right bro and one commie bro to give their synopses.

there wasn't really anything that was said that would change your mind over who you will vote for. The time limit they imposed this time did force them to stick to subjects a little better.

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1 minute ago, diggity said:

I think best quote was trump saying he was "the least racist person in the room" then went on about how dark the room was and that he couldn't see who was in there.

 

He didn't want to offend some of the homies that were less racist than him incase they were there. Word has it Pence even picked up an N word pass but refuses to use it.

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5 minutes ago, Dark_Knight said:

I couldn’t watch. Too frustrating.

 

Imma need one alt right bro and one commie bro to give their synopses.

Trump was more reserved than usual.

Biden kept saying things like "No, Not true, and Wrong," like he was talking to a bad dog.

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