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Lol @ Minneapolis


Dirty_habiT
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25 minutes ago, misteraven said:

Militias are actually few and far between. Likewise, the hot spots aren’t the typical areas you’d expect militias. Perhaps an argument for gun rights. 

Shouldn't they still be mobilising for the republic, though? SHouldn't they have already made their way into the capital to stand beside their brothers and sisters that are standing up for liberty and freedom but getting beat down and arrested by the state?

 

But yes, it's been a question I've been discussing with myself as well. If more of the urban citizenry were armed, would this make the situation better or worse.

 

If the legal protesters that are getting beat were standing there with ARs, would they get beat, would the cops back off a bit or would the National Guard be called out a lot quicker and you have civil war in the streets from the get go.

 

Part of the question for me is how do you get the civilian population to all act for the same goal and operate in a coordinated manner. Think of Libya as an example, each group that was fighting Gadaffi were doing so for their own reason and once Gadaffi was gone, they started fighting each other. How do you ensure that the armed public all fight for the same reason and toward the same end and that you don't just end up with heavily armed anarchy?

 

I certainly see the theoretical reason for a well armed public but I struggle to see it playing out well in reality. This situation is only strengthening my concerns. This is the tyranny but the boogaloo boys are nowhere to be seen.

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47 minutes ago, misteraven said:

Thought this was a great read and on topic. I’d suggest you guys all read but wax thinking perhaps @Hua Guofangin particularly might dig the read. 

 

We Are The Useful Idiots: How Our Nation Divided is Playing Straight Into The Hands of Our Greatest Enemies

https://havokjournal.com/world/we-are-the-useful-idiots-how-our-nation-divided-is-playing-straight-into-the-hands-of-our-greatest-enemies/

Yeah, strong piece that everyone should read. Costa is indeed 100% credible and he has a great podcast as well, if you like Cold War spy stories.

 

Everything the article says is true and it's what I wish our meme folk here on 12oz would be more mindful of (sorry @Kults & @Mercer not meaning to start a shitfight but it's relevant here). The line between humour/satire and influence almost doesn't exist in the meme world. As I've said before, go back an have a look how many memes people post that go against their political persuasion (quick tip, it's basically zero).

 

As the article states, the shit in 2016 with the election wasn't some deep state bullshit, it is real. Read the part of the Meuller report that deals with it (it's 50% of the report!).

 

The only quibble I have with that article is that it focuses the argument a little too much on one side of the coin. The more conservative side of the debate is being played just as much as the left is. That pizzagate bullshit, elite pedo rings and the hardcore conspiracy angles, who do you think is perpetuating them? Your adversaries may not always make the story or the social divisions up - indeed, they rarely do. They take small things that exist and turn them into full blown social movements using wild conspiracy theories.

 

During the last election they were literally organising protests by movements and counter movements in order to make them meet on the streets and fight.  They 100% made up fake organisations that organised rallies and got both sides to fight each other. Neither side is free of manipulation here. The social issues exists, but they've been blown up and manipulated by malign actors (both inside and outside of the country). Now that these tactics are public they are proliferating like nukes did after Hiroshima. Everyone is using digital manipulation now and you have to be skeptical of everything you read. 

 

@misteraven

I have a lot of interesting, credible and non-partisan reading material on who's doing what and how people use disinfo to shape public behaviour, if you're interested. It's often best if you go back and have a look at how the Soviets did active measures in the Cold War as what is happening now is mostly an evolution of their tactics.

 

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47 minutes ago, Hua Guofang said:

Shouldn't they still be mobilising for the republic, though? SHouldn't they have already made their way into the capital to stand beside their brothers and sisters that are standing up for liberty and freedom but getting beat down and arrested by the state?

 

But yes, it's been a question I've been discussing with myself as well. If more of the urban citizenry were armed, would this make the situation better or worse.

 

If the legal protesters that are getting beat were standing there with ARs, would they get beat, would the cops back off a bit or would the National Guard be called out a lot quicker and you have civil war in the streets from the get go.

 

Part of the question for me is how do you get the civilian population to all act for the same goal and operate in a coordinated manner. Think of Libya as an example, each group that was fighting Gadaffi were doing so for their own reason and once Gadaffi was gone, they started fighting each other. How do you ensure that the armed public all fight for the same reason and toward the same end and that you don't just end up with heavily armed anarchy?

 

I certainly see the theoretical reason for a well armed public but I struggle to see it playing out well in reality. This situation is only strengthening my concerns. This is the tyranny but the boogaloo boys are nowhere to be seen.

Think you might not even a clear understanding of militia. Or at least not in the practical sense. All in all, they aren’t some force that mobilized and travels to places of injustice like super hero’s looking for crime. They’re loosely organized (some perhaps are a little more so) groups that basically agree to look out for their local area. There’s affiliations and loose networks and plenty of examples of them being rallied up to mobilize further away, but it’s not something you see often. Especially now with everything such a mess, I’d expect them

to stay put and be on alert for anything needed locally. You’re kind of also giving them more credit than they deserve for the most part. 
 

As far as having guns... an armed society is a polite society. That looting and rioting wouldn’t work at all in places like where I live. Plenty of examples of how effective it is in defending property in times like these. I’d bet the businesses that have armed people up on rooftops will remain unscathed if it’s anything like every other riot I’ve paid attention to. 
 

Wild situation. 

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18 minutes ago, misteraven said:

Think you might not even a clear understanding of militia. Or at least not in the practical sense. All in all, they aren’t some force that mobilized and travels to places of injustice like super hero’s looking for crime. They’re loosely organized (some perhaps are a little more so) groups that basically agree to look out for their local area. There’s affiliations and loose networks and plenty of examples of them being rallied up to mobilize further away, but it’s not something you see often. Especially now with everything such a mess, I’d expect them

to stay put and be on alert for anything needed locally. You’re kind of also giving them more credit than they deserve for the most part. 
 

As far as having guns... an armed society is a polite society. That looting and rioting wouldn’t work at all in places like where I live. Plenty of examples of how effective it is in defending property in times like these. I’d bet the businesses that have armed people up on rooftops will remain unscathed if it’s anything like every other riot I’ve paid attention to. 
 

Wild situation. 

I'll have to go back and read your thoughts on how the constitution regards militias in terms of 2a before I go any further as I know three fifths of fuck all about it.

 

The armed society is a polite society doesn't stand the test in Afghanistan, Pakistan, Serbia/Kosovo, Brazil, Caucuses, Colombia, Libya, etc. etc. They are heavily armed but violent and dangerous societies with large gangs that the police can't control that fuck over people around them. It goes back to my point that an armed society can easily be a society at war against itself. It's likely not the case that everyone will be good citizens and keep to themselves. The bad folk will organise and mobilise just as much as anyone else and then you have war on the streets. That's the way I see it playing out in many parts of the world.

 

Lastly, I think you're focusing too much on the looting/vandalism bit. What about all the peaceful protesters and media that are being bashed, shot at and arrested when they are simply exercising 1A?

 

Polite society also includes the state, right? How does an armed populace and a well organised militia organise coherently and effectively against a well armed and tyrannical state?

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@Hua Guofangyou're missing out on a very important aspect of American politics. Police, the majority of the general public, and overwhelming majority of armed militia members here give zero fucks about black people and their plight. There are very few black militia groups. In fact, the last time black people armed themselves and posed for their own set of LARP photos in front of a government building Regan and the NRA worked together to pass sweeping 2nd amendment infringement laws, going against their very own core platform. If a group of armed black civilians did take up arms they better be extremely organized and have a clear plan besides LARP'ing  because they won't be as well received as the white militia. Hopefully that helps illustrate the armed militia aspect of urban rioting for you.

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@Mercerbut I thought it was also about defending the republic against a tyrannical govt, you know all that talk about if you're not armed the govt will not be held in check and will use the powers of the state to enslave the populace - all those references to what Hitler did and what the Commies do in China.

 

Well, I'm not sure what people think tyranny looks like but it's people being publicly bashed and arrested for exercising 1A. It's the free press being publicly bashed and called the enemy of "the people". It's the military being deployed against the citizens it's supposed to be defending.

 

The President ordered force to be used against law abiding citizens exercising their right to associate and speak yesterday so he could walk to a church and get his photo taken. Are you all not seeing this?  It's way fucking past black people now, it's about the wholesale abuse of power and the future of the republic.

 

And if your accelerationist tendencies are tingling with all this, stop kidding yourself. Nothing is getting burned down. The govt is taking a golden opportunity to make a new normal and you're not going to like how it looks if it succeeds.

 

.

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I'm not sure if this is just your average run of the mill Australian hating American's freedoms, or just a dumb question. Black people shouldn't go out with AR's and murder cops. Neither should white people and the militias. It's pretty clear the FBI and ATF backed off after Ruby ridge/Waco and the aftermath of the federal building being bombed. Is that what you want? People out on the streets murdering police, and government agents? Or would you prefer a helpless population at the mercy of their government overlords because they've given up their rights to defend themselves? My guess is the latter. Don't hide behind the "I don't have an opinion" cowardliness. Everyone here knows you hate the fact we have enough freedom left here to bear arms, at least stand up and admit it, and stop acting like Americans killing each other is the right thing to do here to prove your point. You're extremely confused by your dogmatic belief in absolute government power over their populace. You should be embarrassed by the lack of logic in the "argument" you're trolling with.

 

 

1360363515_ScreenShot2020-06-03at6_22_20AM.png.6e4591f9ea8fa23f1f657ca48612b5d0.png

 

 

 

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25 minutes ago, Mercer said:

I'm not sure if this is just your average run of the mill Australian hating American's freedoms, or just a dumb question. Black people shouldn't go out with AR's and murder cops. Neither should white people and the militias. It's pretty clear the FBI and ATF backed off after Ruby ridge/Waco and the aftermath of the federal building being bombed. Is that what you want? People out on the streets murdering police, and government agents? Or would you prefer a helpless population at the mercy of their government overlords because they've given up their rights to defend themselves? My guess is the latter. Don't hide behind the "I don't have an opinion" cowardliness. Everyone here knows you hate the fact we have enough freedom left here to bear arms, at least stand up and admit it, and stop acting like Americans killing each other is the right thing to do here to prove your point. You're extremely confused by your dogmatic belief in absolute government power over their populace. You should be embarrassed by the lack of logic in the "argument" you're trolling with.

 

 

1360363515_ScreenShot2020-06-03at6_22_20AM.png.6e4591f9ea8fa23f1f657ca48612b5d0.png

 

 

 

 

 

Jesus Christ. Not even going to argue with you dude. You're just another person on the internet who talks big to hide the fact that you know very little.

 

 

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Second one was the only one I've seen so far, had not seen the first one. I honestly expected to see more of this, those against tyranny standing up to be counted (not out murdering cops).

 

I've also seen that second one repackeged to try and look like white supremecists turning up to help the cops.

 

 

.

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18 minutes ago, Hua Guofang said:

 

 

Jesus Christ. Not even going to argue with you dude. You're just another person on the internet who talks big to hide the fact that you know very little.

 

 

You know I’m right. The admission you’ve got nothing, followed by an ad hominem. Stop trying to make this an argument about 2A. This shit has nothing to do with 2A, yet, and if it was as I can only assume you’d be all too happy to be proven right, but large numbers of people would be lying dead in the street.

 

You want to understand WTF is going on here just ask, you don’t have to be a pompous dick about it asking “where’s the militia now”? bullshit questions trying to stir up some shit. This shit is about America’s opposing views on race, technology (cameras in everyone’s pockets) outpacing law, legally protected violence imposed by state agents, an indifferent public. A shit ton of relevant  topics to explore/debate, but it has absolutely nothing to do with 2A so please stop that bullshit.

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5 minutes ago, abrasivesaint said:

Posted these a few pages back ,did they not work? Some of the videos you guys are posting arent working for me..

They may be working. I have to click through to the original page/video to see them because of some of the settings I run. So I skim past a few of them in these threads.

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1 hour ago, Hua Guofang said:

It's the free press being publicly bashed and called the enemy of "the people".

Well, the biased media has been "the enemy" of "the people" for a while now.

 

If the free press were behaving in a manner consistent with only reporting facts then there would be no problem.

 

I encourage anyone that doesn't believe me to check out "Retracto Project Veritas" on youtube.

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7 minutes ago, Hua Guofang said:

Looks like he may have been run over or something. Any idea what happened, @Dirty_habiT?

Bean bag round and relatively close range posted from the protests in Austin yesterday.

 

My personal opinion, since you asked.  Fuckin hilarious.  I would hate to get shot by one, ESPECIALLY for a dumb reason like you thought you were changing something by being an asshole to the city and the people that live here that don't subscribe to that kind of activity.

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3 minutes ago, Hua Guofang said:

They may be working. I have to click through to the original page/video to see them because of some of the settings I run. So I skim past a few of them in these threads.

Ya the twitter posts are saying the media isnt available when i try to watch them. That what happens to you? So do i have to open it on website/app? I dont know fuck all about Twitter so excuse the ignorance. 

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10 minutes ago, Dirty_habiT said:

Well, the biased media has been "the enemy" of "the people" for a while now.

 

If the free press were behaving in a manner consistent with only reporting facts then there would be no problem.

 

I encourage anyone that doesn't believe me to check out "Retracto Project Veritas" on youtube.

Australian, German and other journalists covering the protests and riots in the US have been bashed and shot with rubber bullets etc. They weren't milling in with dudes throwing rocks or any shit like that either, the footage is clear as day. They have nothing to do with the media wars in the US yet they are being targeted.

 

Free media is allowed to be biased, that's what freedom of speech gives you. People don't have to watch it.

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10 minutes ago, Dirty_habiT said:

Bean bag round and relatively close range posted from the protests in Austin yesterday.

 

My personal opinion, since you asked.  Fuckin hilarious.  I would hate to get shot by one, ESPECIALLY for a dumb reason like you thought you were changing something by being an asshole to the city and the people that live here that don't subscribe to that kind of activity.

It's not just the rioters and looters that are getting shot/sprayed/beaten. It's also people who are peacefully protesting and following the law.

 

There's a whole thread of it here to see.

 

Plus, I've spent a lot of time in Austin. You're dreaming if you think that there aren't people who want to fuck shit up, loot and pelt cops in that town.

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