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misteraven

12oz T-Shirt Feedback

Throw in your two cents  

16 members have voted

  1. 1. Should 12ozProphet switch to a softer blank

    • No, I think the blanks used are fine
      5
    • Yes, I'd prefer a softer t-shirt
      11


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So here's a chance to throw in some feedback.

 

Being entirely honest with you guys, releasing 12ozProphet tees has been a shit show. Not to make excuses but reality is I've been burning it at both ends and don't have a big team. All of us are wearing a bunch of hats and juggling a ton of shit. Part of why I'm looking to bring on some additional help.

 

The process is fairly complex, despite the fact that because we own a screen printing company, we have full control over the situation. By the time you see a tee, obviously the idea was developed, then I work through several designs, often scrapping ideas and designs along the way. The ideas / designs that make it past the design stage are then run through a series of scale tests where I print it out at multiple sizes so I can sort of see it in real life. Once I have the scale dialed in, we need to finalize placements. Then I have to separate the artwork so we can print films. At about this stage, I order the blanks, then we expose screens, setup the press, run tests to fine tune colors and technique, before we get to a final sample. It's honestly so much work, that I'll usually do a short run at this point, which often goes to the first orders placed (usually between 10 - 2o pieces). Then we need to sew in all the labeling. I hold a couple back in archive and then have to setup the photos studio side and photograph. Photography for one tee, can often take hours between dialing in lighting, getting the styling and wrinkles, etc just right and the photos captures and cleaned up for Instagram or the shop. Then there's the matter of posting to the shop, which means setting the product up. Then there's generally a promo email that needs to be coded up and despite being a template, usually still requires edits to code. Meanwhile, I also have to generate a few shots for Instagram, even though Instagram suppresses the fuck out of all my posts and most often only about 5 - 8% or so will ever see the posts.

 

In any case, because the last couple releases were such a mess, I chose to step back with it and fix things before moving forward again. Also, its very unlikely I'll try to do preorders as it just adds yet another layer of complexity to the situation. Everything from our vendors delaying blanks to sudden big changes in pricing to a multitude of other reasons has made that a lot more challenging that I had hoped. Maybe I'll revisit it, but for now, I would rather just ship orders in a reasonable amount of time, then ensure everyone that wants a tee, gets one or risk over printing and sitting on stock.

 

Anyhow, I wanted to update you guys a bit on the situation as well as open up a dialogue. Again being honest, there aren't enough people that are on the forum to make an apparel program sustainable. At least not with all that I'm trying to put into this and reality is also that not all the regulars on the forum shop on our store as well, let alone pick up every release. So, yeah, its definitely a challenge.

 

Regardless of the challenges involved, I'm humbled by the feedback I get, as well as the level of patience people have had. Surprisingly, its pretty rare for someone to be a dick about a late order and most emails are super polite and super respectful. I'm grateful for that and appreciate all the people that help support what I'm trying to do with 12ozProphet, as well as simply dig the tees and products. I know it's going to continue being an investment for a while, but I do have faith that eventually kids will catch on to what 12ozProphet is all about and recognize the extra care I try to put into everything. So anyways, that a bit of back story for you guys.

 

A couple issues I've been wrestling with, that I'd love a bit of feedback on, is...

 

1. I really would love to switch blanks. The existing blank is fairly solid. I prefer heavy weight blanks, and ours is a 6.1oz preshrunk cotton tee. The collar is well built and the shirt generally holds up to abuse. What I dont like is the fabric is what's called an open yarn weave, plus its fairly heavily starched to begin with, so overall it feels scratchy when new and doesn't get super soft wafter washing. I would like to switch to a different blank, which is the same weight, but is a brushed and combed cotton. It starts soft and gets even softer as you wash it, which actually makes it feel even thicker. It prints well, and is available in a wide range of color (even if I mostly just print white and black). The issue is that it is not widely available so is also prone to sometimes being hard to find. Worse, is it costs about 33% more than the existing blank. All in all, we still aren't printing enough volume for this to be profitable (hence the comment about investment), but it is what it is and I believe it'll eventually tip over (hopefully sooner rather than later). Either way, its going to be difficult to upgrade blanks and not add a little extra cost to the tees, unless I'm able to substantially increase volume.

 

2. A while back I switched the neck label to a printed label. I did this largely based upon a conversation with @psm026 after he said he hates tagged neck labels. Few other people I talked to after backed that up. I've never minded them myself and felt we did a great job with our own labeling, which I went through a lot of hassle and cost to have made in Italy. In any case, I dropped the sewn in neck label because we didn't have any for size small and because it was killing me to find a way to get them sewn in. For the printing company, we don't have enough requests for that to have a person on staff to just knock them out as needed. Instead we rely on freelancers to assist, and that process has been a nightmare. Eventually we'll hire someone in  house and for now on client orders we just have them done by the manufacturer or have them done by vendors in other states. It obviously adds cost and complexity, but problem with us doing it is that we don't do enough volume for that yet. Either way, I can probably find a solution, and being honest, I really want to. I feel the sewn in labels, really make things look more legit and they've never bothered the back of my neck. Not sure though and keep going back and forth, so decided to ask you guys.

 

That's it for this initial post, but I'll keep brainstorming and fill you guys in on more insights if theres interest.

 

Thanks

 

cc: @psm026   @6Pennies @glorydays  @Kults (since you guys have been big supporters and I often talk to you guys about this stuff). 

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Posted (edited)

@misteraven

 

I believe most of these problems can be fixed if you visited Los Angeles and the growing garment district here.

the blanks from Standard Issue Tees are very very good. they are ring spun cotton, and are very high quality. Standard Issue also does private labels within their own factories.

the cost is all inclusive and they would be made in the US. I would consider them strongly.

 

And i know you aren't the "Streetwear Clout" kind of person, but association with Standard Issue Tees will get you the numbers you need, especially on social media.

 

I believe Standard Issue Tees is owned by Jarrod Lee. Jimmy Gorecki, i think, is part owner through investment.

 

tee_white_1_59068196-0dfc-4b17-9577-eb7a81f72058_1500x1000.jpg?v=1576534967

Edited by glorydays
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If you consider cut n' sew.

 

Kingpin Studios

 

They have people who will make you anything as long as you have a design idea. Theyre also here in LA.

 

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I love reading this stuff and getting a peak behind the curtain on the process, very cool. 

 

I think I’m with you on the softer tees. Personally I like a heavy stock but with a softer feel. Softer tends to age better and look good worn in, especially after a few washes. The tougher ones look best when they’re new/crisp the designs really pop a bit more. The blanks@glorydaysfound seem nice if the pricing is decent. 33% more sounds like it could be a little steep for the margins though? 

 

The blanks you use now are good but I see what you mean about the rougher feel. As for the tags on the back I know many don’t like them but I love it. Adds another small detail and I like seeing them when i’m going through my rack deciding on what to wear. The piece feels more thought out and complete with the tags imo. 

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Thanks for the responses...

 

29 minutes ago, glorydays said:

the cost is all inclusive and they would be made in the US. I would consider them strongly.

I'd be willing to bet that these blanks are probably 2 - 3x the cost of the current blanks and far above even the more expensive ring spun cotton blanks I was considering. I'd bve happy to look into it or have you help in that regards, but problems I'm having will probably be exaggerated if I made that move. They don't offer distribution so they are the only source. So we'd be entirely at the mercy of a single vendor. Going to assume the minimums are high and that the blanks are mega expensive. I'd love to bump it up, but my bet is that I'd need to be moving thousands of tees and / or increase costs to like $50+ a short sleeve tee in order for that to be a consideration.

 

As far as cut / sew... That's a ways off. For now I just need to get the t-shirt program dialed in a super solid before I can take steps beyond that.

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Posted (edited)
20 minutes ago, misteraven said:

Thanks for the responses...

 

I'd be willing to bet that these blanks are probably 2 - 3x the cost of the current blanks and far above even the more expensive ring spun cotton blanks I was considering. I'd bve happy to look into it or have you help in that regards, but problems I'm having will probably be exaggerated if I made that move. They don't offer distribution so they are the only source. So we'd be entirely at the mercy of a single vendor. Going to assume the minimums are high and that the blanks are mega expensive. I'd love to bump it up, but my bet is that I'd need to be moving thousands of tees and / or increase costs to like $50+ a short sleeve tee in order for that to be a consideration.

 

As far as cut / sew... That's a ways off. For now I just need to get the t-shirt program dialed in a super solid before I can take steps beyond that.

There's also Los Angeles Apparel

 

They are also stationed here in, i know, Los Angeles. It's owned by Dov Charney, the guy who used to own American Apparel.

American Apparel is owned by Gildan now, so AA went to shit.

 

Los Angeles apparel might be good to look at also. AND they have a distributor.

 

https://www.losangelesapparel-imprintable.net/

 

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Edited by glorydays
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LA Apparel is crazy expensive. I was planning to order some samples actually, but unlikely I’d run with that blank. Don’t think the average 12oz consumer would be willing to pay $50 for a short sleeve tee. That would make long sleeves $60 - $65. 

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14 minutes ago, misteraven said:

LA Apparel is crazy expensive. I was planning to order some samples actually, but unlikely I’d run with that blank. Don’t think the average 12oz consumer would be willing to pay $50 for a short sleeve tee. That would make long sleeves $60 - $65. 

Those are just the more famous ones here...I'll keep looking through the garment district brands.

I'll keep posting.

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@misteraven

 

i found 2 that are american made and both out of Los Angeles. i thought had the blanks that fit your description.

 

https://madeblanks.com/

 

The good about this brand? It's clientele are the same as you. They're all legends. FUCT is one of their clients and MADE makes all of their blanks from tees to sweatsuits.

What makes that good is that they are "trusted" to get the job done.

 

The problems are somethings i know you won't like. The blank tees are priced high, as much as the quality is good.

Another problem is that they tack on another fee for dying their tee the color you want. If that's what i read correctly.

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https://www.lanesevenapparel.com/

 

Lane seven is a blanks maker out of Los Angeles also.

 

The good about this brand is that the blanks are cheap and they provide WAY MORE options than the first one.

The bad is that communication and getting pricing is a little bit difficult.

 

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Honestly, I don't know much about blanks, but I certainly don't mind sewn in neck tags.  Really can't remember being bother by one in the last decade or two.  Although I would advocate keeping the sewn exterior tag on the bottom back of the shirt.  I feel like that's one of your signature details.

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Yeah, I doubt I'd get rid of that hem label. Was actually rethinking the design of it, but cant see myself not doing one. Debate is more in regards to whether I should bring back a neck label and especially whether its justified or just worthwhile to switch blanks. Also for the record @glorydays, I already have a couple blanks in mind that I plan to look at, including one of the ones you mentioned. I wasn't so much looking for ideas on specific blanks as I was in just trying to decide whether to change blanks, which would require a change in pricing, versus leaving things be with both blank and pricing.

 

 

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on occasion a sewn on tag can be annoying but to be honest i just cut it off

 

My biggest beef with t-shirts is what they look like when they fade i wear the shit out of mine and I have a couple t-shirts that just didn't fade well. For the most part my shirts are black but a couple faded into this whitish black color.

 

that being said I haven't worn my oontz T's as much as those pretty dope and rather not ruin them 

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15 minutes ago, misteraven said:

Yeah, I doubt I'd get rid of that hem label. Was actually rethinking the design of it, but cant see myself not doing one. Debate is more in regards to whether I should bring back a neck label and especially whether its justified or just worthwhile to switch blanks. Also for the record @glorydays, I already have a couple blanks in mind that I plan to look at, including one of the ones you mentioned. I wasn't so much looking for ideas on specific blanks as I was in just trying to decide whether to change blanks, which would require a change in pricing, versus leaving things be with both blank and pricing.

 

 

I was just glad to research....you teach us alot about how this all works and I'm more than happy to help whenever.

Are you allowing investors? Or if any of us buy into your business?

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15 minutes ago, glorydays said:

I was just glad to research....you teach us alot about how this all works and I'm more than happy to help whenever.

Are you allowing investors? Or if any of us buy into your business?

Investors and partners is something I've largely avoided mainly because its been impossible so far to find someone with the right combination to make it work. Yeah, I would consider it, if it were the right person and opportunity. By opportunity I mean someone with the funds and resources capable of taking 12oz to the level I aspire to and an overall opportunity that qualifies the decision considering how many years and dollars I have put into all this.

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3 minutes ago, misteraven said:

Investors and partners is something I've largely avoided mainly because its been impossible so far to find someone with the right combination to make it work. Yeah, I would consider it, if it were the right person and opportunity. By opportunity I mean someone with the funds and resources capable of taking 12oz to the level I aspire to and an overall opportunity that qualifies the decision considering how many years and dollars I have put into all this.

I understand...I'll keep trying to help out as much as possible...I still want to intern for a few weeks in the future

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7 hours ago, mn1_fuckos said:

whitish black color.

Nigga you mean gray?

 

Cosign the annoyingness of the sewn in neck label, honestly hate having to cut it out. I feel like the t-shirt is worn primarily for comfort, compromising this even slightly will net more displeasure, than the dopest sewn in net tag will garner any additional admiration. Granted, most people do not notice, but enough do IMO.

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I was really impressed with the t-shirts i ordered from 12oz.

 

for me, a couple of things are important....

 

first off....i dont really care for these thin ass softer t's that are in style all of a sudden....they hug the body too much...im not feeling that...i ordered a conart shirt last summer and it was thin as shit...wack

 

other things i like in a tshirt...

most importantly....the COLLAR....has to fit snug around my neck...thats why a majority of the black t's and white t's i wear are from pro5apparel....theyve figured this shit out....there used to be an undershirt company from NYC that sold to burlington called jake & co. and they had good collars but they were undershirts not meant for every day wear...they went out of business....collar collar collar....thats the main thing for me.

also, length...im currently wearing a long sleeve eddie bauer black t....it sits really well, but its a bit short....now im not saying super long like that 90s jnco look but at least about an inch below where i wear my belt.

short sleeves must cover the elbows...im sick and tired of these short short ass sleeves.

i like the tag at the bottom of the tee....i also like the tagless tee.

honestly, if you could find a blank "super heavy pro5" shirt and make the sleeves a little bit longer, id say that would be legit.

I do like the 90s small logo on the front and big logo on the back look...bring that shit back.

all in all i miss 90s tshirts though...everything now is supreme this and supreme that.....gimme some stussy, mossimo, conart, cross colours, big johnson, top dawg, T&C surf, no fear, etc etc

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Any chance and colors other than black and white? Maybe a purple/burgundy or burnt orange?

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3 hours ago, KILZ FILLZ said:

Any chance and colors other than black and white? Maybe a purple/burgundy or burnt orange?

Dodger blue please

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@misteraven

I wouldn't mind a premium priced tee ONCE in a while. like if you got blanks from engineered garments and dropped the stacked logo or whatever design on an EG cross crew tee

 

I would pay any price for that collab

 

Engineered Garments WORKADAY(エンジニアード ガーメンツ ワーカー ...

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Damn there is a lot involved in this.  The shirt is good. Heavy. Solid. I want the tag to let me know it's there and doesn't care about me all that much.  That's how I know a shirt is going to stick with me through some shit. 12oz shirts haven't left me yet.

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