Pass the Corona ese... Novel Corona aka COVID-19

[CALIgula]

1 hour ago, Mercer said:

How do you feel about people using automobiles? I mean somebody could get hurt, and die right? What’s the difference?

Dumbest analogy ever. 

Apples and oranges. 

[misteraven]

22 hours ago, Dirty_habiT said:

I think one day when I have kids I'm going to teach them to figure out how to acquire land as soon as they can in life. Because, in doing so, you will grow tremendously as a person.  It's going to take a lot of sacrifice on my part to do what I want to do but in the end it will be worth it.

 

@Mercer- what are your requirements in your head for the land you want?  This may sound crazy but to get a really quick livable structure I was thinking we may build a container house because it's cheap and stackable.  I've been watching a lot of people build container houses on youtube and there are some really cool ideas out there.  Check out this guy's shop/hangout/living area he built.  I don't know enough about him to know how he has access to the materials and equipment he does, but he's a hell of a worker because he does nearly everything you see by himself.

 

 

 

Ultimate living off the grid hideout?

If I were you, I’d consider an air stream as a temporary solution. Assuming you’re off grid, one of the first major construction expenses will be a well. Get a well drilled in as soon as you get there, but instead of putting a sanitary cap, install a manual old time pump head. Install a small solar / battery backup rig, as well as a frost free faucet and then build yourself a semi permanent outhouse / bathing setup. Outhouse can be composting style or you can jump into the next big expense and put in your septic system and drain field. With that setup, you can live comfortably long term. All that infrastructure will be needed for a dwelling anyways. Plus you’ll have a cool air stream for later, that’ll likely appreciate in value versus a container home that likely nobody else will want, that’ll probably take up half as much as a house anyways to properly retrofit. With that infrastructure in place, you can easily build a home on it, or order a Avon or A-Frame kit. That’s the smart way to transition from owning land to building a home on it. 

[misteraven]

13 hours ago, CALIgula said:

Oh give me a break!

 

Is "virtue signaling" the new "social justice warrior-ing?"

 

I'm making the point that if i can sacrifice, then all these people bitching can too.

 

I understand that the economy is fucked up but Jesus fucking Christ, have a little patience... i wouldn't expect anything less from our "need it right now" drive thru culture.

  If anything people need to spend their energy asking the good ol boys (grand ol party.... same shit) to approve more stimulus help to keep people afloat... at least some democrats are already pushing for this. 

 

 

Haven’t read through a page or two worth of replies but this blanket stay at home directive is a load of crap. If anything, I hope people suddenly remember and wise up to local governing since it’s clear that ass hats all the way in DC are absolutely disconnected with the majority of the nation. In my specific case, we’ve had exactly two deaths in the entire county (5 towns) since this entire thing began. 37 total infections. Meanwhile the economy here is devastated and they’re now scrambling to save our hospital from going out of business after having already furloughed almost the entire staff of 600 people because the hospital was a ghost town. Whole thing has been ridiculous, which isn’t at all to say that the realities elsewhere aren’t entirely different. Honestly, even leaving the reopening to Governors is still too far up the chain since they’re deciding for an entire state, and it’s plainly obvious that there’s even extreme differences in population density at the state level, let alone national. 
 

Willing to bet that judged against 330+ million people and how they’re spread out nationwide, that as a whole, we made that curve negative since it was largely flat throughout. 

[misteraven]

13 minutes ago, misteraven said:

If I were you, I’d consider an air stream as a temporary solution. Assuming you’re off grid, one of the first major construction expenses will be a well. Get a well drilled in as soon as you get there, but instead of putting a sanitary cap, install a manual old time pump head. Install a small solar / battery backup rig, as well as a frost free faucet and then build yourself a semi permanent outhouse / bathing setup. Outhouse can be composting style or you can jump into the next big expense and put in your septic system and drain field. With that setup, you can live comfortably long term. All that infrastructure will be needed for a dwelling anyways. Plus you’ll have a cool air stream for later, that’ll likely appreciate in value versus a container home that likely nobody else will want, that’ll probably take up half as much as a house anyways to properly retrofit. With that infrastructure in place, you can easily build a home on it, or order a Avon or A-Frame kit. That’s the smart way to transition from owning land to building a home on it. 

Basically what @Mercer said though a water filter is unnecessary in virtually every case as the water is naturally filtered by the ground itself. If there are contaminates that have to be filtered (usually pre existing industrial waste or big ag runoff), then you don’t want that land. Exception might be filtering the iron content because it makes your toilets never stay gleaming white or prevent the use of bleach in the wash (though you don’t want to drain stuff like that into your septic anyways). 

[Hua Guofang]

So, @Merceryou want us to compare CV19 to motor vehicular accidents?

 

Ok, in the last couple of years there's been 40k and below deaths per year in the US, due to vehicle accidents. Driving is heavily regulated and only those who have passed a test showing that they can use a car on public roads are allowed to drive a car and any infraction of the rules is heavily punished.

 

So, in 3 months, under tight regulations, over 80k have died due to CV19. Annually, that would be 320k dead - 8 times more than the amount of people that die on the road.

 

So, setting aside how wildly uneven the amount of people dying on the roads is to CV19, maybe we should treat them the same way! Under your comparison, the outcome would be that whilst this virus is out of control, only those who pass the test (that means testing negative after being quarantined for 14 days) are allowed out of the house in a highly regulated fashion (masks, goggles, hazmat body condom, etc.) and that if they make mistakes they can be fined or imprisoned. That means we would be treating the virus with the same precautions as driving, just like you're suggesting we do.

 

Honest questions, did you check the numbers for road deaths before you asked that question?

[Kults]

4 hours ago, CALIgula said:

Dumbest analogy ever. 

Apples and oranges. 

how do you figure 

[Kults]

3 hours ago, Hua Guofang said:

Honest questions, did you check the numbers for road deaths before you asked that question?

You’re assuming the covid related death stats aren’t massively juked for funding and to maintain the narrative. 

 

Youre 81 and have a respiratory illness but finally succumb to it= All Covids fault. 

 

Sure i’m not denying it’s had a massive death toll in the hot spots but it simply isn’t the case for many if not most other areas. 

[Kults]

[Kults]

4 hours ago, misteraven said:

Haven’t read through a page or two worth of replies but this blanket stay at home directive is a load of crap. If anything, I hope people suddenly remember and wise up to local governing since it’s clear that ass hats all the way in DC are absolutely disconnected with the majority of the nation. In my specific case, we’ve had exactly two deaths in the entire county (5 towns) since this entire thing began. 37 total infections. Meanwhile the economy here is devastated and they’re now scrambling to save our hospital from going out of business after having already furloughed almost the entire staff of 600 people because the hospital was a ghost town. Whole thing has been ridiculous, which isn’t at all to say that the realities elsewhere aren’t entirely different. Honestly, even leaving the reopening to Governors is still too far up the chain since they’re deciding for an entire state, and it’s plainly obvious that there’s even extreme differences in population density at the state level, let alone national. 
 

Willing to bet that judged against 330+ million people and how they’re spread out nationwide, that as a whole, we made that curve negative since it was largely flat throughout. 

bUt sTay HoMe YoU hEaRtLeSs bAstArd bE vIrTuoUs lIkE MEEEEEEEE

[misteraven]

Thought this was a great podcast about the post Covid reality. Spoiler alert: not all doom and gloom. 
 

Curious for those that actually take the time to listen, do you agree? Do you disagree? Thoughts?
 

https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/the-survival-podcast/id284148583?i=1000474626870

[Kults]

putting it on now

 

E: 5 stages of grief, good way to see it

[Mercer]

@misteravenI listened to the first half of this this morning on my way to work. I'll finish it up later. Super fitting what he said about the generations.

[Mercer]

10 hours ago, Fist 666 said:

Licensing, insurance, regulations galore, developed tracking capabilities, safety devices in place,  established fines/punishments, etc...

 

Health regulations, health inspectors, sanitation practices, mandated sick leave, voluntarily staying home when you are sick, subsidized health care, NIOSH standards, medical regulations, etc...

[Hua Guofang]

7 hours ago, Kults said:

You’re assuming the covid related death stats aren’t massively juked for funding and to maintain the narrative. 

 

Youre 81 and have a respiratory illness but finally succumb to it= All Covids fault. 

 

Sure i’m not denying it’s had a massive death toll in the hot spots but it simply isn’t the case for many if not most other areas. 

YEah, for sure and I think we will see stuff like this come out in the wash (however, don't discount the probability that there are differing rates of death because there are differing modes of response, in terms of timing, severity, culture, etc. It's not just going to be all about the lethality of the virus). But I haven't seen a lot of talk or evidence about bumping numbers for funding and I don't see the media making the numbers up based on their own investigations, they're usually citing govts and expert bodies.

 

The flipside is that there is strong data out there indicating that the rate is actually much higher, I've cited it a couple of times now. But this goes back to the point that we just don't know, it's too early to draw hard conclusions, which is why making comparisons to stuff that we do know intimately, like car accidents, doesn't work. We don't actually know what we're comparing yet - do we get immunity when we recover, are there any flow on health effects like there was with SARS, will it mutate more or less deadly, what will the second wave look like, etc. etc.

 

When you don't know what you're dealing with and there is potential for serious shit, a la the Spanish flu, it's usually wiser to take a more risk averse approach. Of course, going overboard is hazardous too and really, the discussion in this thread is more about where is the right middle ground. Not an easy question to answer with so many unknowns.

[Kults]

I can’t argue that. We don’t know I agree there. Time will tell 

[Mercer]

11 hours ago, misteraven said:

Basically what @Mercer said though a water filter is unnecessary in virtually every case as the water is naturally filtered by the ground itself. If there are contaminates that have to be filtered (usually pre existing industrial waste or big ag runoff), then you don’t want that land. Exception might be filtering the iron content because it makes your toilets never stay gleaming white or prevent the use of bleach in the wash (though you don’t want to drain stuff like that into your septic anyways). 

https://www.lifesourcewater.com/water-filter-system.php

 

Depends on the ground water quality. Here in Colorado, since the climate is somewhat dry, and obviously more mineral rich the ground water has high levels of minerals dissolved in them, which make the water "hard" and worse than that, some of the minerals present are known carcinogens.  Denver's city water can't be used in culinary applications without at the very least a "water softener" filter which normally uses sodium, or potassium. The newer technology for these water softeners doesn't require any of that, or even require you replace the filter. They just remove the majority of mineral content and keep working. Expensive AF but well worth it. We put one in my moms house in Southern Nevada and it really does make a huge difference in the way you feel after taking a shower, mineral buildup in the plumbing/fixtures, and the way your food turns out especially baking. Not at all necessary, but worth it IMO.

[ndv]

@Mercer completely agree.  I have friends who live around Denver area, what they have is a reverse osmosis system, which i think is seven stage 🤔  but not too sure on that.  They can definitely get exsprnsive to add to your home but well worth it.  Never have to buy botyled water again.  

[Mercer]

@ndvI refuse to buy bottled water less than 1 gallon size. Convenient, but a huge waste of plastic and money. I just use a 32 oz hydroflask I paid $40 for years ago. I really do miss NYC tap water, but for now it's all Britta.

[pissdrunkwhat?!]

@Mercer I've heard NYC tap water come up a lot in pizza talk. Our water where I'm at is from an aquifer which is in a lot of limestone and we also have a shit load of calcium. Water is literally hard.

[Fist 666]

So: multiquotes to give context here.

 

On 5/16/2020 at 12:07 AM, CALIgula said:

What's the motivation to NOT go back to work? 

Oh, that's right...a PANDEMIC. 

 

I wouldn't mind people doing what they want normally (hell, i painted shit that didn't belong to me for years), but when doing what you want could affect my health (or more importantly,  people i love) then as i said before, we got problems. 

 

You can't imagine how much I'd love to beat the shit out of those fucking protestors at the Capitol. But even going out there for even a verbal confrontation during this pandemic is risky. 

You ask: 

23 hours ago, Mercer said:

How do you feel about people using automobiles? I mean somebody could get hurt, and die right? What’s the difference?

I respond:

22 hours ago, Fist 666 said:

Licensing, insurance, regulations galore, developed tracking capabilities, safety devices in place,  established fines/punishments, etc...

 

You respond:

21 hours ago, Mercer said:

We already have all these things for health care, sanitation, food, etc.

 

Even with all these measures in place for automobiles there's still a good chance you could die.

12 hours ago, Mercer said:

Health regulations, health inspectors, sanitation practices, mandated sick leave, voluntarily staying home when you are sick, subsidized health care, NIOSH standards, medical regulations, etc...

 

 

So, @Mercer, I think I want clarity before I commit any more time to this: What is "it" you are comparing to driving? Is it going out in public during the time of pandemic against professional medical advice?  Is it going to work during the time of pandemic? What exactly?  

 

Without that key in place there is too much assumption of what you're arguing.

 

Your list of supposedly comparable items implies a few things, but I want you to state the argument to reduce assumption on my part. 

 

[Dirty_habiT]

I hope to God we don't approve more "stimulus".  I watched my neighbor spend all of his on beer pretty much.... and going to South Padre Island 3 weekends in a row.

 

I don't want to pay for that donkey shit.  I also don't want to pay for "I have 3 kids and a shit job.  I'm your neighbor and I'm hungry."  All the laid off bartenders, ice cream shop workers, and restaurant wait staff care so much about society and the economy now, that they're experts on it, and in a position to tell the rest of the world what we should be doing to get back on track.

 

Oh what?  I definitely take life advice from people that don't have their shit together, you all don't?

[Hua Guofang]

7 minutes ago, Dirty_habiT said:

I hope to God we don't approve more "stimulus".  I watched my neighbor spend all of his on beer pretty much.... and going to South Padre Island 3 weekends in a row.

 

I don't want to pay for that donkey shit.  I also don't want to pay for "I have 3 kids and a shit job.  I'm your neighbor and I'm hungry."  All the laid off bartenders, ice cream shop workers, and restaurant wait staff care so much about society and the economy now, that they're experts on it, and in a position to tell the rest of the world what we should be doing to get back on track.

 

Oh what?  I definitely take life advice from people that don't have their shit together, you all don't?

Isn't that what they want people to do, though? They want people to spend in order to keep the economy pumping - as opposed to people saving it or using it to pay off debt. Of course, I'm sure they'd prefer healthier habits, but you know what I mean.

[morton]

Let them starve, lets get it cracking. 

 

 

[Kults]

1 hour ago, Hua Guofang said:

Isn't that what they want people to do, though? They want people to spend in order to keep the economy pumping - as opposed to people saving it or using it to pay off debt. Of course, I'm sure they'd prefer healthier habits, but you know what I mean.

up to a point, yes. not indefinitely because mUh pAnDeMiC 

[morton]

So, is eight weeks too close to indefinite for comfort?

[Kults]

1 hour ago, morton said:

Let them starve, lets get it cracking. 

 

 

at this point... kinda ya. no one has to starve plenty of ‘essential services’ looking for labour and if a co is in a lockdown state and the individual worked prior to this you still have standard EI. this blanket give everyone money has to end 

[morton]

Do you honestly think that the availability of essential services jobs is equal to the number of unemployed? Something like 30 million people are unemployed in the US right now, are you saying that there are that many jobs running boxes for Amazon or whatever? 

 

How about the income difference, would you be able to loose your current job and get by on minimum wage? Could you make the lifestyle shift fast enough, get out of your mortgage, break your lease and settle all debts etc.?

 

In terms of getting by on unemployment insurance I do hope you understand that this is not Canada down here, many states have made unemployment insurance at parity with the poverty line. The benefit amount in some states is around $200 per week.

 

But if you genuinely believe that we should let the chips fall where they will and let our people starve to death, I guess we just hold different values. 

 

[misteraven]

2 hours ago, Hua Guofang said:

Isn't that what they want people to do, though? They want people to spend in order to keep the economy pumping - as opposed to people saving it or using it to pay off debt. Of course, I'm sure they'd prefer healthier habits, but you know what I mean.

Actually true. Saving money or paying off old debt doesn’t help. Read something where they actually projected and compensated for that. They need money to flow, which means buying dumb shot as you’ve alluded to. That said, he’s not wrong in not wanting to foot that bill or be at the mercy of the mob, that are suddenly engaged and trying to steer the conversation.  

[Kults]

Not sure how it works in the states but what you're describing is basically welfare here. Unemployment Insurance pays out 65% of your salary.

 

Again, cant speak for the states but there are plenty of unfilled essential services positions available here right now. No one wants to work since theyre all getting 2k/month free, I wouldn't wanna work either.

 

I do believe we should help people down on their luck but I draw the line when we pay out more to let them stay home and do nothing than they've ever made to begin with. That last statement is just an appeal to emotion

[misteraven]

11 minutes ago, Kults said:

 

I do believe we should help people down on their luck but I draw the line when we pay out more to let them stay home and do nothing than they've ever made to begin with.

Going to repost this podcast link at it speaks to this far better than anything I think any of us will respond with. 
 

https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/the-survival-podcast/id284148583?i=1000474626870