This Old Trap House: Wonk Saggin Edition

[ndv]

15 hours ago, Fist 666 said:

It's hard to stick with a company and not go on my own, I believe I'd do well, but there is comfort in letting other people deal with all the overhead shit. Time will tell how long I can put up with their bullshit, though.

 

I agree with Mr. Yuck, the stress levels running a business all have stress levels pertaining to the practice/trade.  Like Mr. Yuck and myself we are one man band "self employed" doing everything from quoting, purchasing, installing, customer service, then billing (clerical work) all while there is 8hrs in the work day, so time is critical and trying to get everything completed on deadlines, stress can really add up and go through the roof very quickly.   

 

Like one of my suppliers said, "we are stressing when we don't have work, or stressing when we do".   And this is true.

 

Most people will think if they scale up and higher employees to reduce the stress (work load) does help in getting things completed on time through delegation which removes some of the crunch time stress.  But you also get no where on the stress scale because you may begin to stress about your employees doing things right and not screwing up costing you money.   The money is a huge driving factor of stress, money is the pinicle of the pyramid of stress.   This is one of the reasons why companies higher the best of the best, or at least try to at their levels. Too much stress for a company not to screw up and piss off the investors, as well as the competition.  

 

From what I have read from 666, Mercer, and Yuck, the pay/hr you guys are saying, that's kinda impressive considering I am looking at it at a national scale and unionized standards.   Is it enough to compensate inflation?  Yes/No.  If you're comfortable and happy where you're at, then yes.  If you want more for whatever your reasons, then No.  

 

If it's no.  Then in tradesman skills, the next level is self employment.  No body is going to pay you 120/hr.  180/hr.  becuase thats what the companies are charging to keep themselves in business.  You get 60 they need the rest so the owner gets 60 but has to pay bills.  So when they have 10, 20 employes, things add up quick and your making a few hundred per hour so this is where you really start to see the money. 

 

As for being self employed numbers per hour pretty much remain the same as if you were a large service company.  The reason why, is you have want even the playing field becuase you will eventually need to higher so its best that you have that money coming in already.   But to include the same numbers per hr also allow you to play with the numbers making you competitive if you really want or need the work that the larger companies really can't do and if they do, they are taking a loss.   These large companies only use this strategy only when they need to keep their guys busy during tough times.  Being one man band allows you to know you can always charge the min price of 60 per hour, if you need to.  The large companies can't.  But just like the large companies, you have a margin too, and anything below 60 you are loosing too.  

 

So,  120, 180, 260, 350, 475 per hour may sound like a bunch to most people, but these are numbers you really need to be charging becuas what it costs to be self employed these numbers are EBITA, (Earning Before Income-tax, and Amortization).  So when all expenses are paid for, that 475 is more like 275.

 

Some of you think, we'll dang!  Even 275 per hour is killing it, but if you've been following Mercers economic posts or just watching general inflation or cost of living in parts of the country that 275 yes, is nice in texas, but 275 in cali, Colorado, New York, Hawaii,  it's probably gonna take every bit of the 275 to live comfortable for a family of 3-4 but you really may not have much in savings or to apply towards investments. 

 

666, I absolutely encourage self employment, not only the money, but the freedom you have that comes with the stress. But also the hidden factor that if you ever decide to sell the business or you just do not want to deal with it anymore.  Going back to work for someone else, the self employment on your resume opens up higher positions immediately.  Which is better pay, which could be the same pay as when you were self employed but now you do not have to deal with self employment stress levels so to speak.  

 

This is true.

 

If it was easy, everybody would be doing it.  

 

This goes for anything, specially running a business.  

[NightmareOnElmStreet]

19 hours ago, mr.yuck said:

 

 

Bros. I'm pretty sure stress is a major factor in what landed me in the hospital. 

 

It's never the physical work that's the hard part. It's the dealing with the god damn customers that sucks. I have a problem with internalizing criticism. It's absolutely retarded that we put out custom, interior designer, magazine quality finish work and you have some hood booger mother fucker trying to blame you for their previous bullshit work that you are covering up. Paint all over the ceiling, paint on stained trims or cabinets, trash in the previous coats of paint. One of your guys broke my TV. There's a tear in my couch that wasn't there before you showed up. Fuck these people man. 

 

It would be different If my company had layers, but it's just me. I find the job, I deal with the customer, I do the actual work, I then have to listen to their bullshit lies and talk about the poor quality of workmanship. I'm surprised that I haven't smoked one of these faggots yet.

You gotta get with these contractor fight podcast nerds man. All I’m hearing is you’re dealing with the wrong clientele way too much. Target audience is a real thing and I’m personally working on it myself. Costs a decent amount marketing and advertising but ultimately it should dial in and weed out all the fuck heads. 

[mr.yuck]

@NightmareOnElmStreetbro at one point I was spending several thousand dollars a month on advertising and wasn't getting shit for return on dollars spent. Let me know what you're doing fam!

 

@ndvI have a homie that owns a pretty big plumbing outfit. I was talking with him a few years ago and he said he had $30,000 in overhead a month he had to generate before he could go grab a double cheese burger from McDonald's. That kinda pressure would make me shit liquid 😂 I was talking with another homie that works for a large commercial HVAC company. I told him my business insurance was only like $2000 for the year all in and he could do it too. He said that's bitch shit and his companies liability insurance alone was $20k a month. Fucking liquid shits all day. 

[LUGR]

2 hours ago, mr.yuck said:

@NightmareOnElmStreetbro at one point I was spending several thousand dollars a month on advertising and wasn't getting shit for return on dollars spent. Let me know what you're doing fam!

 

@ndvI have a homie that owns a pretty big plumbing outfit. I was talking with him a few years ago and he said he had $30,000 in overhead a month he had to generate before he could go grab a double cheese burger from McDonald's. That kinda pressure would make me shit liquid 😂 I was talking with another homie that works for a large commercial HVAC company. I told him my business insurance was only like $2000 for the year all in and he could do it too. He said that's bitch shit and his companies liability insurance alone was $20k a month. Fucking liquid shits all day. 

I hope you don’t give yourself and ulcer with all this liquid shits and stomach acids sloshing around in your gut.

[ndv]

46 minutes ago, mr.yuck said:

ightmareOnElmStreetbro at one point I was spending several thousand dollars a month on advertising and wasn't getting shit for return on dollars spent. Let me know what you're doing fam

 

My buddy was telling me to jump on the Google ad words things years back.   Never did.  6 months later, I asked him how's it going with Google ad words?  "It's trash man, don't do it, it's a waste of money".  

[LUGR]

2 hours ago, ndv said:

 

My buddy was telling me to jump on the Google ad words things years back.   Never did.  6 months later, I asked him how's it going with Google ad words?  "It's trash man, don't do it, it's a waste of money".  

And years later….what is buddy up to?

[ndv]

59 minutes ago, mr.yuck said:

@NightmareOnElmStreetbro 

 

@ndvI have a homie that owns a pretty big plumbing outfit. I was talking with him a few years ago and he said he had $30,000 in overhead a month he had to generate before he could go grab a double cheese burger from McDonald's. That kinda pressure would make me shit liquid 😂 I was talking with another homie that works for a large commercial HVAC company. I told him my business insurance was only like $2000 for the year all in and he could do it too. He said that's bitch shit and his companies liability insurance alone was $20k a month. Fucking liquid shits all day. 

 

I had a customer who had to have a minimum of 100k work come in the door per month, anything less he was loosing money.  The bigger you get the bigger the stress really.  I am thankful I am a small business in way becuase the plus side is I can still compete and get the big jobs the bigger competition gets but my profit margins are far greater than theirs. 

 

But with that being said, right now I am trying to figure out how to run as lean as possible acquiring large contracts.   It's possible however the risks are greater for us becuase we do not have the capital as large competitors do were they can take a large loss and keep going.  So it's a slow process setting it up.   I am sure AI could be of use , specially to us small guys for a competitive advantage becuase you know they using it too.

Edited October 2, 2023 by ndv

[ndv]

4 minutes ago, LUGR said:

And years later….what is buddy up to?

 

Still running a successful AV company.  He switched and uses construct connect and gets tons of work from that membership alone. 

[One Man Banned]

Aint been in here in forever.  Hope you all still got all your fingers and toes. 

 

@ndvmade an @Mauler5150size post.

 

@mr.yuckyou know you paused work to smoke a spliff, watching some fools tv while you got your feet up on his couch like fuck your couch.

 

Still kind of funny to see graf guys talking about trouble advertising and getting your name out.  I recently connected with a good HVAC guy and he just gets referrals through word of mouth.  Worked here.  Dude did good work for a fair price, I passed his name on to a bunch of people.

[ndv]

3 minutes ago, One Man Banned said:

recently connected with a good HVAC guy and he just gets referrals through word of mouth.  Worked here.  Dude did good work for a fair price, I passed his name on to a bunch of people.

 

This is very true.  I have been operating under this since I started and nothing is solid as word of mouth.  No key words, or marketing can make it happen like word of mouth.  

[Fist 666]

A couple more from the previous house and one from the current shitshow.

 

 

 

Storm before the calm... 

 

 

 

 

 

I stopped doing panels that were 'gram worthy, and just started doing clean and functional. Time is money and I could spend another 2 hours per box making em perfect, but I rarely work cost-plus and the bottom line can affect a bonus. 

 

 

Bonus, silly rap letters

 

 

[LUGR]

Show off

[ndv]

I just raised my expedite fee from 125 to 175

 

I am making more on the expedite fee than I am on the job.

[LUGR]

2 hours ago, ndv said:

I just raised my expedite fee from 125 to 175

 

I am making more on the expedite fee than I am on the job.

Expedite that shit right into your bank account.

[mr.yuck]

@Fist 666that's really nice looking broham. Also a quick question. Where in the actual fuck are all of your grounds in that panel 

[Fist 666]

Grounds get ground bars tucked behind everything else. 

 

These are Eaton panels, I've grown to like their panels and breakers the more I use them, though for anything else they are not my preferred brand. 

[mr.yuck]

Cooool. So the ground from the service terminates into its own lug. Is it necessary to connect both of the ground bars together? And if so does it matter what gauge wire? @Fist 666

[Fist 666]

1.yes, in this panel. This is NOT a back to back service, meaning it's 3 wire (b/r/w) to the exterior service disconnects (first means of disconnect) and 4 wire (b/r/w/bare)  from those to disconnects to the panels. If this were a bqck to back service with just a meter outside, and no disconnect on the exterior, i wouldnt have a groundING conductor to land. In this panel my neutrals and ground are separated at this panel, but join each other at the main service disconnects outside (I choose to use main breaker panels [code would allow main lug panels here) because I actively do not do hot work, and these houses will have power turned on before final c/o inspection, and it makes my life way the fuck easier/safer to have the ability to kill individual panels and tell the carpenters or masons or whoever to plug in to a different circuit while I get the work done that I need to. )(further--back to back services [or more accurately, residences without exterior main disconnects] will be disappearing as nec 2020 gets adopted by more municipalities. NC is still using 2017 code for residential wiring.)

 

2. Panel dependent, no. The can itself is bonding those two separate ground bars together in this case. Manufacturer specs dictate this as okay.

 

In some cans we bond the ground bars using #6 copper. 

 

 

/nomauler

 

[mr.yuck]

@Fist 666thank you sir. You are a gentleman and a scholar.

[NightmareOnElmStreet]

On 10/1/2023 at 9:18 PM, mr.yuck said:

@NightmareOnElmStreetbro at one point I was spending several thousand dollars a month on advertising and wasn't getting shit for return on dollars spent. Let me know what you're doing fam!

 

@ndvI have a homie that owns a pretty big plumbing outfit. I was talking with him a few years ago and he said he had $30,000 in overhead a month he had to generate before he could go grab a double cheese burger from McDonald's. That kinda pressure would make me shit liquid 😂 I was talking with another homie that works for a large commercial HVAC company. I told him my business insurance was only like $2000 for the year all in and he could do it too. He said that's bitch shit and his companies liability insurance alone was $20k a month. Fucking liquid shits all day. 

 

On 10/1/2023 at 10:06 PM, ndv said:

 

My buddy was telling me to jump on the Google ad words things years back.   Never did.  6 months later, I asked him how's it going with Google ad words?  "It's trash man, don't do it, it's a waste of money".  

@mr.yucki haven’t signed  on to anything yet but it’s definitely coming. Most of the nerdy contractor forums or podcasts I listen to and the one coach I know swear it’s the only way to scale and I don’t not believe them. Shits worth a shot but narrowing down the right company is a mf. Shit exists for a reason and I’m over being negative and untrustworthy just because I’m afraid of spending the money. Fuck that. I’m not trying to struggle anymore so it’s gon be what it is. Gotta try. I’m currently paying for top tier Bookeeping though to better understand where I’m even at and what I can afford first though. 
 

@ndvyoir homie isn’t wrong all the way. Google ads and facebooks ads are stupid expensive to be “competitive” but that’s the age we are living in. 
 

Case and whole point there are definitely other avenues to take on the marketing advertising thing but either one is going to run your pockets. Guerrilla style street level shit which is kinda what anybody on this forum oughta be used to in a round about way is a huge come up but you have to go like “all city” to make any sort of impact. Door hangers and random telephone post signs too. It can work but the internet is the golden ticket and if you ain’t hip you’re getting out seen by the dudes paying for that visibility. End of story. 

[NightmareOnElmStreet]

What am o doing currently?? Nothing really yet. I spent 250 on 13 two sided lawn signs which was way too much and I still haven’t even put them all out yet (facepalm). I’m a work in progress but I know what needs to be done. 

[NightmareOnElmStreet]

Fist you’re a maniac magician on the electrical fam. Much respect. 

[LUGR]

7 hours ago, Fist 666 said:

Grounds get ground bars tucked behind everything else. 

 

These are Eaton panels, I've grown to like their panels and breakers the more I use them, though for anything else they are not my preferred brand. 

Leaving the temp little piece of insulation to write on is a really good idea. I know an electrician that would really help to prevent him from continuing to label his panels wrong.

[mr.yuck]

8 minutes ago, LUGR said:

Leaving the temp little piece of insulation to write on is a really good idea. I know an electrician that would really help to prevent him from continuing to label his panels wrong.

 

My cousin said the inspectors love to see that shit. He does it and still mislabeled one of my circuits upstairs. Lol. I guess it's not fool proof. 

[LUGR]

2 hours ago, mr.yuck said:

 

My cousin said the inspectors love to see that shit. He does it and still mislabeled one of my circuits upstairs. Lol. I guess it's not fool proof. 

I figured it was just temporary to keep things labeled up until all connections were complete and I do could be transferred to permanent label. Thought @Fist 666me ironed only a certain amount allowed on the box per code.

[mr.yuck]

15 minutes ago, LUGR said:

I figured it was just temporary to keep things labeled up until all connections were complete and I do could be transferred to permanent label. Thought @Fist 666me ironed only a certain amount allowed on the box per code.

 

Yeah minimum sheathing. My man was clowning on my extra feet worth of jacket in the box 🤣

[Fist 666]

Yeah, I was talking shit. There is a code minimum requirement of 1/4" of sheathing beyond the connector in a box, code doesn't dictate a maximum, it just is fugly af to leave a lot on.

[mr.yuck]

I'm gonna clean it up tomorrow after I go check out a job and finalize their estimate. Speaking of cleaning up, it's also time to clean out the hoodroponics auto drugs 9000 to start the next round of drugs.

[ndv]

Yo!  So isn't there or shouldn't there be some type of building code home builders should have to follow for materials that are approved and not approved for specific rooms like for example, shower walls and kitchen islands.  

 

Basically what I am trying to get at is shouldn't hardy board be used instead of drywall as the base sheeting before tile or wood before the counter top is placed on?  

 

I mean wouldn't this help elevate any chance of mold to grow over time from moisture in showers?  It may not be mold proof but one would think hardy board is a little more resistant to  moisture?

 

Here's a pic of Perry Home practices that I am not proud of the way they thunk a home should be built. 

 

 

[mr.yuck]

You are right. I think there should be best building practices. As long as there is mold resistant drywall and it's the cheaper option, that's what's getting installed. 

 

I was working in a new construction neighborhood over a decade ago and the homes being built were in the 400s. At the time, this was where you bought a home when you thought you had some money. All brick, semi custom, tray ceilings. This neighborhood was high on the hog. Bathroom and kitchen floors were sheet vinyl. All doors were hollow core. I was talking the the builder and was like "yo son. How much money do you need to spend before you start seeing tile and hardwood?" Dude told me about $700k. That's fucking unreal to me then and is still unreal to me now. Even high end homes are done with acceptably cheap finishes. Once the house is sold, builder doesn't care past what ever warranty they provide.