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Mercer

Good news for Bernie Sanders supporters (and people like myself hoping for an economic collapse)

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From Politico:

 

Suddenly, Bernie Sanders’ presidential campaign is being taken seriously.

 

For months, the Vermont senator was written off by Democratic Party insiders as a candidate with a committed but narrow base who was too far left to win the primary. Elizabeth Warren had skyrocketed in the polls and seemed to be leaving him behind in the race to be progressive voters’ standard-bearer in 2020.

 

But in the past few weeks, something has changed. In private conversations and on social media, Democratic officials, political operatives and pundits are reconsidering Sanders’ chances.

 

“It may have been inevitable that eventually you would have two candidates representing each side of the ideological divide in the party. A lot of smart people I’ve talked to lately think there’s a very good chance those two end up being Biden and Sanders,” said David Brock, a longtime Hillary Clinton ally who founded a pro-Clinton super PAC in the 2016 campaign. “They’ve both proven to be very resilient.”

 

Democratic insiders said they are rethinking Sanders’ bid for a few reasons: First, Warren has recently fallen in national and early state surveys. Second, Sanders has withstood the ups and downs of the primary, including a heart attack. At the same time, other candidates with once-high expectations, such as Kamala Harris, Cory Booker and Beto O’Rourke, have dropped out or languished in single digits in the polls.

 

“I believe people should take him very seriously. He has a very good shot of winning Iowa, a very good shot of winning New Hampshire, and other than Joe Biden, the best shot of winning Nevada,” said Dan Pfeiffer, who served as an adviser to former President Barack Obama. “He could build a real head of steam heading into South Carolina and Super Tuesday.”

 

The durability of Sanders’ candidacy has come as a surprise even in some states where he performed strongly in 2016 and where he is attempting to improve his standing ahead of the 2020 election.

California state Sen. Scott Wiener, who defeated a Sanders-backed Democrat for his seat in the liberal-heavy San Francisco area in 2016, said Sanders has been “more resilient than I anticipated.”

“But in retrospect,” he added, “he has a very, very loyal following, and people have really stuck with him.”

 

https://www.politico.com/news/2019/12/26/can-bernie-sanders-win-2020-election-president-089636

Edited by Mercer

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42 minutes ago, misteraven said:

Really is proof that the parties don’t give a fuck so long as they can lay claim on the Oval Office. 

Yep. loyalty to the nation and the constitution is gurgling the fuck down the shitter these last couple of decades. No different here or in the UK.

 

Bunch of dirty flies buzzing around a sweaty turd, the lot of them. The swamp never drains, it just changes colour, one party after another.

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Shocked there's not more Sanders support on 12oz considering the political compass thread results, he should technically have the most appeal here. Obviously I'm not down, but with that said out of all the Democratic front runners he's the only one I can respect, regardless of our opposing political views. This dude has consistently held onto his core beliefs, and philosophy over long political career without compromise. That's respect worthy to say the least.

 

Do I think he can beat Trump?  No, the majority of Boomers and enough of Gen X will never warm to Democratic Socialism.

With that said, the establishment dems dug their grave pushing for impeachment, inadvertently exposing their own corruption to the masses.

So he might have a better chance of it than Crackhead Joe.

 

I do think he can beat all these power hungry sociopaths the democrats have regurgitated for the primary. Millennials are more politically aware/active than they're given credit for, and Bernie/AOC are the faces of Democratic Socialism. I think their party needs to be shaken up and made aware of the will of their base

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@Mercer

 

I think if there are Sanders supporters here they probably wouldn't speak up because of the inevitable pile ons they'd receive for being 'supporters of socialist dictators' and whatnot. Seriously, take a look at the political meme thread and tell me it's worth even discussing the merits of socialism around here. Go back and read over the Venezuela thread to see what a waste of time that would be.

 

Regards Biden, I don't care about him but honestly, show me some evidence of his corruption (in Ukraine, I assume you're referring to). I've dug up a pretty large pile of stuff that suggests to any reasonable and objective person that they are most likely just accusations made to damage him from his political opponents but y'all just want to believe that he's as corrupt as a cunt for some reason. Where's the evidence?!

 

I'd be happy to back down if a single fucking shred of evidence (that wasn't published in a Russian rag set up to undermine the Ukrainian, based in territory invaded by Russia - seriously, that's the only morsel of evidence against him and people are actually going with it yet when they've got a fucking memo and an American ambassador and a string of sworn witness statements saying withhold funds from Ukraine or announce an investigation into my rival, people are doubtful there's anything there. Seriously have a think about how imbalanced that is) is produced to suggest he's guilty. Are you really going to just believe a cat like Rudi Giuliani because he makes an accusation on Fox News?

 

Honestly, this is the exact problem of the political cycle today. Serious accusations are made, repeated over and over again in sympathetic media and on social media and the person loses their job or is fucked over. No actual evidence is provided, no charges are ever laid, all you need these days is accusations and a media strategy. Everyone swallows it because they're so fucking conditioned by the environment of distrust and media manipulation.

 

Fuck y'all, I felt like having a rant! Y'all being played for fools and don't seem to notice it. Again, I don't support Biden, Trump, Obama, etc. I don't even support anyone in my own country! They're all full of shit and you've got to look at everything every one of them says cynically and focus on facts and actions instead of atmospherics.

 

Ok, I'll stop now.

Edited by Hua Guofang
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27 minutes ago, Hua Guofang said:

@Mercer

 

I think if there are Sanders supporters here they probably wouldn't speak up because of the inevitable pile ons they'd receive for being 'supporters of socialist dictators' and whatnot. Seriously, take a look at the political meme thread and tell me it's worth even discussing the merits of socialism around here. Go back and read over the Venezuela thread to see what a waste of time that would be.

 

Regards Biden, I don't care about him but honestly, show me some evidence of his corruption (in Ukraine, I assume you're referring to). I've dug up a pretty large pile of stuff that suggests to any reasonable and objective person that they are most likely just accusations made to damage him from his political opponents but y'all just want to believe that he's as corrupt as a cunt for some reason. Where's the evidence?!

 

I'd be happy to back down if a single fucking shred of evidence (that wasn't published in a Russian rag set up to undermine the Ukrainian, based in territory invaded by Russia - seriously, that's the only morsel of evidence against him and people are actually going with it yet when they've got a fucking memo and an American ambassador and a string of sworn witness statements saying withhold funds from Ukraine or announce an investigation into my rival, people are doubtful there's anything there. Seriously have a think about how imbalanced that is) is produced to suggest he's guilty. Are you really going to just believe a cat like Rudi Giuliani because he makes an accusation on Fox News?

 

Honestly, this is the exact problem of the political cycle today. Serious accusations are made, repeated over and over again in sympathetic media and on social media and the person loses their job or is fucked over. No actual evidence is provided, no charges are ever laid, all you need these days is accusations and a media strategy. Everyone swallows it because they're so fucking conditioned by the environment of distrust and media manipulation.

 

Fuck y'all, I felt like having a rant! Y'all being played for fools and don't seem to notice it. Again, I don't support Biden, Trump, Obama, etc. I don't even support anyone in my own country! They're all full of shit and you've got to look at everything every one of them says cynically and focus on facts and actions instead of atmospherics.

 

Ok, I'll stop now.

Read this:

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-hunter-biden-ukraine-idUSKBN1WX1P7

 

Watch this:

 

 

 

 

His son, completely unqualified to advise a Natural gas company was earning millions doing just that. This same company was under investigation for corruption in Ukraine. Biden himself is on camera bragging about withholding foreign aide until that Ukrainian prosecutor is fired.

 

@Hua GuofangHow is this not computing for you? I'm not sure if you're joking, or unaware of what went down.

 

Fuck this corrupt piece of shit, not to mention he's the vice president for Obama, who will probably always hold the record for most children killed by any Nobel "peace" prize winner.

 

 

879186814_ObamaNobelPeacePrize.jpg.08e85be3feb8461b683d373c1459618b.jpg

Edited by Mercer
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I don't like Bernie, and I think he's a retard.... and the people I've met in Austin, TX that support him.... I also consider them retards, on an intellectual level.

 

Not a fan, don't have anything to add except I'll be fuckin damned if this dude is going to tax the shit out of my income.

 

@Mercer- I don't know if you drink but I feel like I owe you a keg.

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I do drink, we should all show up on Raven's homestead one day when it's warmer for drinks.

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I've been wanting to visit for a long time now, he's extended the invitation to me and my gf to do so.  It would be cool to meet in person.

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3 hours ago, Hua Guofang said:

@Mercer

the merits of socialism.

Ooof.  This is the part where I don't point out the fact that people that think socialism can work say "it just hasn't been executed properly yet."  Whhhoooopppsss, I did it anyway.

 

@Hua Guofang- since you've admitted that you don't like anyone (politically).... do you think it'd be ok to allow others to like someone?  It seems like you're always crusading to "sherr dem fax" with others in an effort to change their mind.  I think you might cause yourself a lot of stress over this politics stuff, and you definitely spend a lot of time researching and digging through articles to share here.  I'm not suggesting you do anything outside of what makes you happy, I'm just observing.  You know Fox News isn't the devil.  You should actually try watching on of the programs all the way through sometime.  I really like "The Five" and "Tucker".  I think anyone that says "Tucker is an idiot" is being intellectually dishonest with themselves.  I used to skip over his videos because I thought he was a bit crazy and sensationalist, but now I actually enjoy watching him.  He's funny and he's on point.

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5 hours ago, Hua Guofang said:

@Mercer

 

I think if there are Sanders supporters here they probably wouldn't speak up because of the inevitable pile ons they'd receive for being 'supporters of socialist dictators' and whatnot. Seriously, take a look at the political meme thread and tell me it's worth even discussing the merits of socialism around here. Go back and read over the Venezuela thread to see what a waste of time that would be.

I remember that thread, and also remember how quickly they resorted to name calling ad hominem attacks once the massive holes in their Socialist logic were pointed out to them. They're completely intolerant of other peoples views period and unable to debate these ideas. Why not give it another read. If anyone get's piled up on it's me.

 

 

Quote

 

Regards Biden, I don't care about him but honestly, show me some evidence of his corruption (in Ukraine, I assume you're referring to). I've dug up a pretty large pile of stuff that suggests to any reasonable and objective person that they are most likely just accusations made to damage him from his political opponents but y'all just want to believe that he's as corrupt as a cunt for some reason. Where's the evidence?!

Done, see my previous post.

 

Quote

 

I'd be happy to back down if a single fucking shred of evidence (that wasn't published in a Russian rag set up to undermine the Ukrainian, based in territory invaded by Russia - seriously, that's the only morsel of evidence against him and people are actually going with it yet when they've got a fucking memo and an American ambassador and a string of sworn witness statements saying withhold funds from Ukraine or announce an investigation into my rival, people are doubtful there's anything there. Seriously have a think about how imbalanced that is) is produced to suggest he's guilty. Are you really going to just believe a cat like Rudi Giuliani because he makes an accusation on Fox News?

Done, see my previous post, he's a corrupt hair sniffing against consent  piece of shit, and his son is a crackhead.

 

Quote

 

Honestly, this is the exact problem of the political cycle today. Serious accusations are made, repeated over and over again in sympathetic media and on social media and the person loses their job or is fucked over. No actual evidence is provided, no charges are ever laid, all you need these days is accusations and a media strategy. Everyone swallows it because they're so fucking conditioned by the environment of distrust and media manipulation.

I made an accusation, and backed it up with video footage of Joe Biden actually admitting what he did on camera, what more do you want.

 

Quote

 

Fuck y'all, I felt like having a rant! Y'all being played for fools and don't seem to notice it. Again, I don't support Biden, Trump, Obama, etc. I don't even support anyone in my own country! They're all full of shit and you've got to look at everything every one of them says cynically and focus on facts and actions instead of atmospherics.

 

Ok, I'll stop now.

@Hua Guofang's step by step modus operandi:

  1. Criticize the opinions of someone else
  2. Immediately cower behind the "well I don't have an opinion myself so you can't criticize me"

I've never met someone IRL who does this, and to be quite frank, it's really annoying. It's like sucker punching someone then running away. "I'm not even that mad bro, you can't attack me back". IMO If you don't want to fight/debate, then don't throw sucker punches, or spark a debate with someone. If you do want to, then do it. Whatever you do, at least own your own words/opinions and don't hide behind an excuse like that. I mean you may not like any of the candidates, but you have to have an opinion on this or you wouldn't be in here debating. It may suck to have to defend your position, when compared to attacking someone else's but it's a sign of honor, and testicular fortitude to do so.

 

 

Edited by Mercer
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Fuck off, my rant was gold.

 

lol, it was a 3am half drunk half tired rant that I'll come back and be responsible for tomorrow. Got a big brew day on today.

 

In short though, @Merceryou'd posted in the thread where I laid out the accusation against Biden and the evidence for and against. I figured that you'd read through it and were ignoring it, hence me getting on my soapbox. Short of it is - no one disputes that Biden withheld funds, what is in dispute is why. If we go through the available information it seems most likely that he was doing it as part of a broader effort with numerous other countries, including EU (I've posted EU parl. briefings from 2017 showing that) and there was no active investigation into Burisma to stop (have posted the US ambassador in 2015/6 complaining that Shokin wasn't doing the investigation, the EU was also complaining, Shokin's deputy quit because he wasn't doing corruption investigations, the current Prosecutor General says it's all bullshit, etc. etc. I've posted it all up). The only evidence I can find is the guy who got sacked saying Biden was trying to stop an investigation but this was published in a newspaper set up by Russia in Donbass after they invaded the region and it publishes material to undermine the pro-EU govt in Kiev).

 

That's it, significant amounts of evidence that the withholding of funds wasn't linked to his son's role in the company and nothing but accusations that it was - accusations by the guy who got fired, Trump and Giuliani. Check it out here (page six has all the reference material to pick through):

 

Edited by Hua Guofang

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2 hours ago, Hua Guofang said:

Fuck off, my rant was gold.

 

lol, it was a 3am half drunk half tired rant that I'll come back and be responsible for tomorrow. Got a big brew day on today.

 

In short though, @Merceryou'd posted in the thread where I laid out the accusation against Biden and the evidence for and against. I figured that you'd read through it and were ignoring it, hence me getting on my soapbox. Short of it is - no one disputes that Biden withheld funds, what is in dispute is why. If we go through the available information it seems most likely that he was doing it as part of a broader effort with numerous other countries, including EU (I've posted EU parl. briefings from 2017 showing that) and there was no active investigation into Burisma to stop (have posted the US ambassador in 2015/6 complaining that Shokin wasn't doing the investigation, the EU was also complaining, Shokin's deputy quit because he wasn't doing corruption investigations, the current Prosecutor General says it's all bullshit, etc. etc. I've posted it all up). The only evidence I can find is the guy who got sacked saying Biden was trying to stop an investigation but this was published in a newspaper set up by Russia in Donbass after they invaded the region and it publishes material to undermine the pro-EU govt in Kiev).

 

That's it, significant amounts of evidence that the withholding of funds wasn't linked to his son's role in the company and nothing but accusations that it was - accusations by the guy who got fired, Trump and Giuliani. Check it out here (page six has all the reference material to pick through):

 

So what's your theory on:

  1. Hunter Biden being put on the board of directors of a Ukrainian gas company earning 7 figures with zero qualifications
  2. Joe Biden not distancing himself from that clearly corrupt situation publicly

I mean nobody is suggesting corruption here, especially me. I'm just asking because I too would like to be put on the board of directors of a major energy company myself, and coincidentally I'm also unqualified for that position so this is more of a career advice type of question.

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In for the advice as well.  I need to figure this trick out so I can get paid for reallllll.  Here I have been working my whole professional career doing stuff I'm experienced at doing for money.  I think I've been doing it wrong according to Biden supporters.

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5 hours ago, Mercer said:

So what's your theory on:

  1. Hunter Biden being put on the board of directors of a Ukrainian gas company earning 7 figures with zero qualifications
  2. Joe Biden not distancing himself from that clearly corrupt situation publicly

I mean nobody is suggesting corruption here, especially me. I'm just asking because I too would like to be put on the board of directors of a major energy company myself, and coincidentally I'm also unqualified for that position so this is more of a career advice type of question.

1. Companies are allowed to hire whoever they want, right? Are you saying that the govt should make laws about who companies can and can't hire? Secondly, you are aware that companies hire people to boards for their networks as a standard, right? and why shouldn't they? They're allowed to do what is legal to get an edge against the competition, right?

2. "Joe Biden not distancing himself from that clearly corrupt situation publicly" - the very next sentence: "I mean nobody is suggesting corruption here, especially me..."

 

lol, I assume you're trolling and fair play if you are, 'tis the season.

 

But it is also a pretty fair point that there is a serious question of ethics and it was raised at the time by the Reps and others (do the digging, you'll find it in open source). Biden is VP and head of Ukraine policy. Years later, Hunter is hired by a large energy firm in Ukraine. So what is supposed to happen here? I really don't know the law here but I would guess that Obama should have removed that policy from Biden to show that everything is above board but he didn't. Hunter shouldn't have taken the job either as it's a clear conflict of interest, but the Ukrainian prosecutor General has said that it broke no Ukrainian laws. So, does that mean Joe Biden should have stood down from heading up Ukrainian policy? Yeah, I guess so. But I'd have thought that this particular buck stopped with Obama. Really not sure about that but the reading I've done is varied between blaming all three. So I guess it's ethically obvious, that's it fucked up and some one carries legal blame. I have no idea who legally carries that blame and based on reading, it might be a legal grey area that has to be tested in court. Why hasn't this been taken to court in the last 3 years?

 

But let's be clear Giuliani and Trump aren't saying Hunter being hired by Burisma was a problem ('cause, you know, the president's own personal attorney who works for free is also in the energy business in Ukraine and trying to determine who sits on the board of Naftogaz, so they don't really want to talk about conflicts of interest 😉 ) they're saying that Biden had the Prosecutor General sacked because he was investigating the owner of Burisma, the company Biden worked for.

 

Now, let's see some evidence for that!

 

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4 hours ago, Dirty_habiT said:

In for the advice as well.  I need to figure this trick out so I can get paid for reallllll.  Here I have been working my whole professional career doing stuff I'm experienced at doing for money.  I think I've been doing it wrong according to Biden supporters.

Is your dad highly connected?

 

Well then the answer is obvious, you get nothing, pleb!

 

So why do you think the Reps have never taken the Bidens to court in the US or Ukraine over this issue?

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You're purposely ignoring (blatant) corruption here due to a bias you have against Trump @Hua GuofangA private company can hire whoever they want, that's not a problem, only a straw man you've constructed. The problem is when politicians profit from their influence directly, or indirectly like in this case where Biden's son was protected by the VP withholding military aid until the company he worked stopped being investigated for corruption. There's no way you can pretend to be so dumb you can't connect these obvious dots.

 

No question that both Trump, and Biden are dirty as fuck. The difference is Biden somewhat relies on an untarnished image, whereas Trump does not. A fact clear as day if you're even slightly observing the political climate here surrounding Trump. Why do you think orange man even pushed to reopen this investigation in the first place? This impeachment process making Biden's corruption mainstream news was like a gift falling into his lap, basically got exactly what he wanted and then some. He can even run for a third term now. At the same time you could say congress got exactly what they wanted, a short term distraction in the news cycle while they passed more nefarious bills completely unnoticed. Bottom line is Biden will no longer be able to take the states that voted red last time and beat Trump in the general election.

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@Hua Guofang has done deeper digging on the subject than anyone else in here to demonstrate that there is no known smoking gun and no hard proof. You are asking for him to prove a negative: he's foolish for responding and y'all are foolish for asking. 

 

There is no denying by anyone on this forum that a system favoring connections based government networking or outright nepotism is ethically shitty. If you are comfortable connecting the Biden corruption dots then connecting the Trump bribery/obstruction dots should come with lubricated ease. Whataboutism negates nothing.

 

But I also don't abide by a named ethos, so I'm sure this is a cop out distraction  🙄

___________________________________________________________________________________________

 

Re: Bernie support: I registered dem in the 2015 primaries so that I could vote for Bernie, then re registered as independent after the primaries. Like @MercerI like his historically demonstrable consistency of being principled, however, he's fucking old, just had a heart attack, and caters way to hard to the far left for me to feel okay voting for him to run the country (esp with the prospect of AOC as #2), let alone think he has a chance at beating Trump.

 

I'll register dem to vote for Pete in the primaries, and when he isn't the nominee I'll vote for the libertarian or green ticket, whoever has the higher rank. 

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Bernie's going to tax the shit out of anyone that makes decent and more than decent money.... so that "he can give" healthcare to people that don't want to work and are capable of working.  In Texas we call that highway robbery.

 

Actually, @Hua Guofang- my dad DOES play politics, he has been on the city council in the last 3 cities he's lived in.  I mean, sure you could discredit the fact that he wasn't the mayor or the governor, or a executive for a company..... but he's done his fair share of exposing corruption within the communities he's lived in.  You know, fighting the good fight for the normal people that don't realize the sleaze bags are stealing from them and doing underhanded deals.

 

7 hours ago, Hua Guofang said:

So why do you think the Reps have never taken the Bidens to court in the US or Ukraine over this issue?

Do not worry, you will get to watch Act 2 of political theater from your spot in Aussie land.  Just be patient because it is coming.

 

I did not see any hard proof of bribery or obstruction on Trump's part.  Fake news links don't count as hard proof.  He's just been doing businessman business, some of you all might not understand that even if I tried explaining it to you.... most likely for lack of wanting to.  The thing is, I am not doing this ostrich head in the sand thing that many of the Dems are doing.  I actually pay attention to both sides and know what the fake news channels are purporting very well.

 

"This is an IED"

"This is an EXESTENTIAL THREAT"

"Nobody is above the law, not even the president."

 

Lol.... sorry, it's hilarious that anyone relies on these people for dem fax and dah troof.

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1 hour ago, Fist 666 said:

@Hua Guofang has done deeper digging on the subject than anyone else in here to demonstrate that there is no known smoking gun and no hard proof. You are asking for him to prove a negative: he's foolish for responding and y'all are foolish for asking. 

 

There is no denying by anyone on this forum that a system favoring connections based government networking or outright nepotism is ethically shitty. If you are comfortable connecting the Biden corruption dots then connecting the Trump bribery/obstruction dots should come with lubricated ease. Whataboutism negates nothing.

 

But I also don't abide by a named ethos, so I'm sure this is a cop out distraction  🙄

The only thing I disagree with fully is the last part. To beat Trump, the candidate going against him needs the moral high ground. Hillary lost on some boomer shit, fucking up emails, imagine the tarnish they'll throw towards crackhead Joe. Nobody on the Democrat side is going to be able to pull off out turding Trump, that's kind of his thing. As far as Trump doing the exact same thing (withholding foreign aid for political favors) nobody who would vote for Trump cares, they have already forgiven way worse.

Edited by Mercer
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6 hours ago, Fist 666 said:

There is no denying by anyone on this forum that a system favoring connections based government networking or outright nepotism is ethically shitty. If you are comfortable connecting the Biden corruption dots then connecting the Trump bribery/obstruction dots should come with lubricated ease. Whataboutism negates nothing.

I disagree. One of those cases concerns a politician personally enriching himself and his family by wielding the might of his office, the other has a politician wanting to investigate blatant corruption. Not the same thing, at all.

 

Its more than ethically shitty. No whataboutism here as its not towards the same ends.

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