2020 U.S. Election

[Hua Guofang]

Ilves is the former pres. of Estonia but I thought his words appropriate for us all when we are tempted to fall back into shallow and meaningless tropes:

 

I say, ““I’m a liberal.” That says nothing about whether I’m left or right, but I believe in free and fair elections, rule of law, respect for human rights.”

Toomas Hendrik Ilves

[Hua Guofang]

He's been impeached.

 

 

[Dirty_habiT]

Cliff notes plz. 

[Hua Guofang]

18 hours ago, Dirty_habiT said:

Cliff notes plz. 

@Dirty_habiTWill do a bit later, but for now, this is one of the other activities Congress has been busying itself with (Congressman for Missouri):

 

Billy Long

@auctnr1

 

 

Glad to see ⁦@reddit⁩ & ⁦@Twitter⁩ are all abuzz about my ⁦@realDonaldTrump⁩ $45 Bills! Only bill I got passed last Congress, I got the 45th #POTUS put on the $45 Bill. Signed one for Justice Gorsch at White House Ball & ⁦@TuckerCarlson⁩ tonight.#MAGA #KAG

 

 

 

It's like a fucking cult.

 

.

[Hua Guofang]

Defence funds allocated by Congress withheld by the White House within two hours of the phone call with Zelinsky telling him that the pres. needed a favour first, to announce a public investigation into his #1 rival. (nobody else in the country that is apparently beset by corruption, just his #1 political rival...)

 

Anyone who doesn't accept that there is a serious case to answer in regards to using the office for personal political gain is willfully ignorant.

 

Clearly, people on the inside who leaked this email agree.

 

[Hua Guofang]

On 12/19/2019 at 4:23 PM, Dirty_habiT said:

Cliff notes plz. 

The second part of the process that the constitution has in place to remove people not fit for office has been completed. The House has voted to impeach the president, the case will now go to the Senate where a political trial will be held, although it's already a sham. There has to be a 2/3rd vote to remove him from office, if not, like Clinton and Johnson, he will basically be 'acquitted' of the charges.

 

It is claimed that Trump used the powers of his office to benefit himself politically. He used Congressionally allocated funds to bribe a foreign state to publicly announce an investigation into his #1 rival.

 

A 'transcript' of the call was released by the White House to argue that there was no quid pro quo. However, this is NOT a transcript, it's a memorandum that does not relate word for word what was said. A whislteblower came forward to say that key elements of that discussion were removed that have impacts for US national security.

 

The whole situation has become bogged down on arguments over process rather than what has actually occurred, which is a smart strategy on behalf of the Reps - shift the argument to one that is esoteric and can be easily confused.

 

The central matter remains that there are people who were on the call that say the President used his office for personal gain and in the process undermined America's national security. The peripheral people involved (diplomats) say that there was quid pro quo and that the president is using an unappointed/unaccountable private citizen to run a parallel and hidden foreign policy in parts of the former Soviet Union.

 

The White House is now blocking its staff from responding subpoenas to testify because they know the Dems don't want to spend an election year battling through the court system just to get people to answer questions.

 

 

That's pretty much the Cliff Notes of the whole dealio.

[Dirty_habiT]

Ok, I understand..... but, man.... this president has more support from people of the USA than I've ever seen in my lifetime for any president.  People love this guy, and the other side of the coin is that some people absolutely hate him.

 

What  I like about him, and what will get him re-elected, is that he's NOT a politician.  He's not one of these slimy folks that wants to grease their own palms.  He has money so doing shady deals isn't something he's interested in.  It's like he's the rich kid, not impressed by the money tricks people can do, unlike many other presidents before.... and specifically Obama.

 

I don't know what "benefit" he could have been making for himself by exposing the corruption of the Bidens.  This is the most hypocritical sequence of events I've ever seen.  Literally, the bidens were taking money from Ukraine, under the table, for political favor.  When Trump wanted that investigated (nothing wrong with that in my mind), now they want to try to blame him for doing what they were already guilty of and in the process of being caught doing?  Seriously, fuck them.  I don't have a nice way to say it.  Just because Biden was attempting to run for president doesn't mean he's immune to investigation but his ties within politics have gotten him a pass on what would have imprisoned anyone else.

 

I'll be happy when Comey, the Obamas, the Clintons, and the Bidens go to prison.  I think we'll get to see them at least get slapped on the wrist for what they've done, but I'll be happy to see them get imprisoned for what they've done.

 

Also, how is the transcript not a transcript?  The "whistleblower" has been alleged to be a wire tap.... and that's why Schiff can't talk about the whistleblower because it's more illegal wire tapping just like they did w/ the Steele Dossier.

[Hua Guofang]

More, but I need to correct myself, I don't know how these became public, may not have been leaked, could be FOI or other ways:

 

[Dirty_habiT]

What HARD PROOF does ANYONE have that the transcript is not the full transcript? 

[Hua Guofang]

2 minutes ago, Dirty_habiT said:

Ok, I understand..... but, man.... this president has more support from people of the USA than I've ever seen in my lifetime for any president.  People love this guy, and the other side of the coin is that some people absolutely hate him.

 

What  I like about him, and what will get him re-elected, is that he's NOT a politician.  He's not one of these slimy folks that wants to grease their own palms.  He has money so doing shady deals isn't something he's interested in.  It's like he's the rich kid, not impressed by the money tricks people can do, unlike many other presidents before.... and specifically Obama.

 

I'll be happy when Comey, the Obamas, the Clintons, and the Bidens go to prison.  I think we'll get to see them at least get slapped on the wrist for what they've done, but I'll be happy to see them get imprisoned for what they've done.

 

Also, how is the transcript not a transcript?  The "whistleblower" has been alleged to be a wire tap.... and that's why Schiff can't talk about the whistleblower because it's more illegal wire tapping just like they did w/ the Steele Dossier.

REally?! You know Trump has been using his own properties for official business so much that his own team started pushing back because it got too much, right? I mean it was all over the media a few weeks back.

 

@Dirty_habiT - I don't know what "benefit" he could have been making for himself by exposing the corruption of the Bidens.  This is the most hypocritical sequence of events I've ever seen.  Literally, the bidens were taking money from Ukraine, under the table, for political favor.  When Trump wanted that investigated (nothing wrong with that in my mind), now they want to try to blame him for doing what they were already guilty of and in the process of being caught doing?  Seriously, fuck them.  I don't have a nice way to say it.  Just because Biden was attempting to run for president doesn't mean he's immune to investigation but his ties within politics have gotten him a pass on what would have imprisoned anyone else.

 

You don't know what benefit? Biden is his highest polling competitor in the coming election and you can't work out how Trump would benefit from having antoher country make a public announcement that he may be corrupt? It's not difficult to see how that would benefit Trump.

 

If Trump is so concerned about corruption, why is he only after Biden, the guy that just happens to be his #1 rival? You don't think that's a bit of a coincidence?

 

Can I see some evidence of this corruption, please?

 

 

@Dirty_habiT - Also, how is the transcript not a transcript?  The "whistleblower" has been alleged to be a wire tap.... and that's why Schiff can't talk about the whistleblower because it's more illegal wire tapping just like they did w/ the Steele Dossier.

 

Because it simply isn't a transcript, it's called a Memorandum of Events and they are two different things - a transcript is word for word, everything that was said. A memorandum of events is a capture of the discussion, it can sumarise, paraphrase and leave out things the recorder decides may not be consequential.

 

You don't even have to believe me, see for yourself, it's right at the top of the first page: https://d3i6fh83elv35t.cloudfront.net/static/2019/09/Unclassified09.2019.pdf

 

 

 

@Dirty_habiT Also, how is the transcript not a transcript?  The "whistleblower" has been alleged to be a wire tap.... and that's why Schiff can't talk about the whistleblower because it's more illegal wire tapping just like they did w/ the Steele Dossier.

 

Absolutely and demonstrably not true. When international leaders have calls with other foreign leaders there are always a whole cohort of people listening in from staff to diplomats and State Dept people, etc. When it is a call with a leader that the US (or any other country) has defence or national security relations with you have military folk, intel folk and other depts listening in too. These calls a also recorded so these same people can have access to them to be able to do their job. The whistleblower was from the National Security Council, who are almost always part of these phone calls.

 

Whoever is trying to claim that he was spying is 100% full of shit and it can be proven beyond any doubt.

 

 

[Hua Guofang]

16 minutes ago, Dirty_habiT said:

What HARD PROOF does ANYONE have that the transcript is not the full transcript? 

Just posted it for you, it's right at the top of the document the president released.

 

Not only does the document itself state that it is not a transcript but it also notes that others listen in to calls, such as the NSC, which is what the whistleblower was doing as part if his job:

 

CAUTION: A Memorandum of a Telephone Conversation.· (TELCON) is not a verbatim transcript of a discussion. The text in this document records the notes and recollections of Situation Room Duty "Officers and-NSC policy staff assigned t_o listen.and memorialize the conversation in written form as the conversation takes place. A numper of factors can affect 'the accuracy of the reco�d, including poor telecommunications connections and variations in accent and/or interpretation. The word "inaudible" is used to indifate portions of a conversation that the notetaker was unable to hear.

[Dirty_habiT]

Ok, well if you're correct about all of this, then the people of USA won't re-elect this horrible man.... and we won't see any charges brought against the people that actually committed criminal acts.

 

Time will tell the truth to us all.  I'm not going to get into shit flinging again like what got that other thread shut down.  Cheers.

 

My support is and will be for Trump until I see some reason that it should not be.  He's an excellent businessman running our country like a business.

 

I don't know anyone that doesn't like success.  This IS success and one of the big signs of success is when people start getting petty at every level in every way possible.  We're seeing that too.  Pound sand is what I say, we'll still be here kicking ass while the whiney babies are crying and wiping snot from their mustaches.

[Hua Guofang]

I don't know, I think we're capable of having a civil conversation, but it's up to you. I don't think I was offensive anywhere, was I? Didn't intend to be if I was.

 

I'm also not sure that elections are a measure of right or wrong either. If that's the case you'd say that Obama was a righteous and good president. But you don't seem to think that based on your previous post.

 

Anyway, if you take anything away from this bit of the convo, please let it be that it's not an actual transcript and the guy that says important stuff was removed from that document was a non-political guy doing his job and doing it legally. Posted the hard proof for you up the page.

[Hua Guofang]

Invitation still stands, even though @Dirty_habiTis not going any further with the discussion, that I'm keen to see evidence that Biden was involved in corrupt behaviour in Ukraine, if anyone knows where I can read up on it.

 

There seems to be a lot of people saying this but as far as I can tell, there's no actual evidence, it's just something people are saying because they heard it somewhere.

 

Keen to know if that is incorrect and that there is evidence.

[Dirty_habiT]

The internet "news sites".... and the people that work for the "news sites" will lead you to the proof you need.

 

This is tired and beat... all of it is.  Trump is going to be the president again in 2020 by blowout numbers.  This is DHabz's prediction.

 

I'm just not sure why you have any skin in the game, being an Australian, @Hua Guofang..... like... why do you care at all?  I don't care what goes on with the politics in your country, it seems like a weird and unrewarding hobby to me.  I'm not suggesting that you shouldn't do whatever you want to do, but it just seems like a whole lot of wheel spinning for someone that isn't affected by how bad ass our president is.

[Dirty_habiT]

Seriously, fuck the election for now, I'd be fine with going back to talking about the bullshit fake impeachment show that turned out just about like how everyone that isn't a nut swinger of liars thought it would.  I'm sorry if that's offensive but I'm not sure how else to describe these people that want to ruin our country and undo what men and women fought hard for.

 

 

[Kults]

29 minutes ago, Dirty_habiT said:

This is tired and beat... all of it is.  Trump is going to be the president again in 2020 by blowout numbers.  This is DHabz's prediction.

I called it in 2016 and doing the same now. I'd bet a finger on it. Its gonna be a landslide and will make dems pine for the days of a close race. They really blew themselves up this round.  Not a single one of them are even remotely electable.

[Dirty_habiT]

Exactly @Kults- and you know what this has me thinking.... I don't "hate democrats".  I hate these democrats. they're a bunch of intelligence insulting dip shits IMO.  Not a single one of them is worth voting for and I feel sorry for anyone that thinks that any of these people are worth even 1 vote.

[Hua Guofang]

@Dirty_habiTThe reason I follow things so closely is because The US is the worlds most powerful country and our #1 security allies, a major trading partner and investor.  What happens in US politics has a huge impact on us (and the rest of the world). 
 

it’s also part of my job, which means I do more than read MSM. I deal with you diplomats, congressional staffers, advisors, Defence personnel, etc. 

Edited December 22, 2019 by Hua Guofang

[Hua Guofang]

6 hours ago, Dirty_habiT said:

The internet "news sites".... and the people that work for the "news sites" will lead you to the proof you need.

 

 

Just out of interest, DH, where do you get your information from regards politics?

 

You clearly have strong feelings and a firm position. Which news channels/websites/commentators do you pay attention to in regards to politics?

[Kults]

[Dirty_habiT]

19 minutes ago, Hua Guofang said:

Just out of interest, DH, where do you get your information from regards politics?

 

You clearly have strong feelings and a firm position. Which news channels/websites/commentators do you pay attention to in regards to politics?

I just watch highlights on youtube.  I purposefully block all the BS news because I can't stand the newscasters.  They're a bunch of faggy clowns.... like seriously, can't stand watching them or listening to their bullshit.  It's so obvious that it's chock full of crap and parroting eachother's quotes.  Examples include:

 

"existential threat" in regards to climate change.

"explosive testimony" in regards to impeachment crap.

 

etc.  This is going to be a big shocker for you but I like watching Fox News.  Not everyone on the channel and every show is enjoyable to me, but I enjoy watching "The Five" because Juan is always going on a tirade.  I think he will quit one day.  I also enjoy watching Tucker because he is very smart.  Also, none of what they talk about is "hard to believe" or "extremist" or "questionable."  The democrats are so obviously a fucking joke this year it's not even funny to laugh at them.  I feel like I'm laughing at retards and it's not rewarding.

 

Mind you, I know people are going to be prone to being like "oh you're just a trump derangement syndrome idiot".... but here's the thing.  I'm not an idiot in life in general.... by a LONG STRETCH.  So it's not like I'm just choosing this one thing to be naive on.  Anyway, take it for what you will.... I can't listen to any of the bullshit fake news channels because they quite literally are that, and it's very obvious if you're not drinking the koolaid.

[Kults]

1 minute ago, Dirty_habiT said:

I just watch highlights on youtube.  I purposefully block all the BS news because I can't stand the newscasters.  They're a bunch of faggy clowns.... like seriously, can't stand watching them or listening to their bullshit.  It's so obvious that it's chock full of crap and parroting eachother's quotes.  Examples include:

 

"existential threat" in regards to climate change.

"explosive testimony" in regards to impeachment crap.

 

etc.  This is going to be a big shocker for you but I like watching Fox News.  Not everyone on the channel and every show is enjoyable to me, but I enjoy watching "The Five" because Juan is always going on a tirade.  I think he will quit one day.  I also enjoy watching Tucker because he is very smart.  Also, none of what they talk about is "hard to believe" or "extremist" or "questionable."  The democrats are so obviously a fucking joke this year it's not even funny to laugh at them.  I feel like I'm laughing at retards and it's not rewarding.

 

Mind you, I know people are going to be prone to being like "oh you're just a trump derangement syndrome idiot".... but here's the thing.  I'm not an idiot in life in general.... by a LONG STRETCH.  So it's not like I'm just choosing this one thing to be naive on.  Anyway, take it for what you will.... I can't listen to any of the bullshit fake news channels because they quite literally are that, and it's very obvious if you're not drinking the koolaid.

Hey those are the two shows Ill watch on FOX

 

I look forward to the day Greg gives Juan a stroke on TV

[Hua Guofang]

40 minutes ago, Dirty_habiT said:

I just watch highlights on youtube.  I purposefully block all the BS news because I can't stand the newscasters.  They're a bunch of faggy clowns.... like seriously, can't stand watching them or listening to their bullshit.  It's so obvious that it's chock full of crap and parroting eachother's quotes.  Examples include:

 

"existential threat" in regards to climate change.

"explosive testimony" in regards to impeachment crap.

 

etc.  This is going to be a big shocker for you but I like watching Fox News.  Not everyone on the channel and every show is enjoyable to me, but I enjoy watching "The Five" because Juan is always going on a tirade.  I think he will quit one day.  I also enjoy watching Tucker because he is very smart.  Also, none of what they talk about is "hard to believe" or "extremist" or "questionable."  The democrats are so obviously a fucking joke this year it's not even funny to laugh at them.  I feel like I'm laughing at retards and it's not rewarding.

 

Mind you, I know people are going to be prone to being like "oh you're just a trump derangement syndrome idiot".... but here's the thing.  I'm not an idiot in life in general.... by a LONG STRETCH.  So it's not like I'm just choosing this one thing to be naive on.  Anyway, take it for what you will.... I can't listen to any of the bullshit fake news channels because they quite literally are that, and it's very obvious if you're not drinking the koolaid.

Yeah, I know, because that was where the theory came from regarding the whistleblower being a spy.

 

The problem is, they're all fake news.

 

The news channels learned decades ago that it's more profitable to tell people what they want to hear rather than report facts and ask questions. Fox is obviously a Trump supporting channel, so they tell the Trump base what they want to hear. The same goes for MSNBC and the like - those that watch Maddow are anti-Trump, so that's the foundation of what they're told. They're just the two sides of the same coin.

 

I don't think the risk is watching Fox or MSNBC, the risk is only watching one 'tribe' of news. Because you're not getting actual news, you're just being comforted with what you want to hear.

[Kults]

17 minutes ago, Hua Guofang said:

Yeah, I know, because that was where the theory came from regarding the whistleblower being a spy.

 

The problem is, they're all fake news.

 

The news channels learned decades ago that it's more profitable to tell people what they want to hear rather than report facts and ask questions. Fox is obviously a Trump supporting channel, so they tell the Trump base what they want to hear. The same goes for MSNBC and the like - those that watch Maddow are anti-Trump, so that's the foundation of what they're told. They're just the two sides of the same coin.

 

I don't think the risk is watching Fox or MSNBC, the risk is only watching one 'tribe' of news. Because you're not getting actual news, you're just being comforted with what you want to hear.

The two FOX shows he mentioned are opinion shows and not actual news though. You know what you're getting going in, The Five has a Democrat on the panel too so you do get both takes. He's outnumbered 4 to 1 though so he always gets it lol

[Hua Guofang]

That's right, but I'm not sure that everyone who watches commentators gets that it's not actually news. It's also where a lot of people get 'informed' from. Same shit happens here to a degree but we're nowhere near as polarised as the US. We have a hard-right wing channel (Murdoch owned, of course) that is anti-climate change, latently pro-Trump because he's not a liberal, etc. But they are still viewed as a bit fringe. We also have conservative orgs like the IPA (which are funded by big coal, surprise surprise) and conservative publications like Quadrant. The real pity is that the Australian (broadsheet newspaper), which used to be a very reputable source, has gone off the reservation as an opinionista lately (another Murdoch owned rag) and a lot of it's journos are resigning because they don't want to be part of it. So what's being left is a bunch of screaming opinionistas and not authentic journalists.

 

Our left-leaning side is brought up by the public broadcaster, the ABC. Still mixes in some hardcore investigative journalism and top notch foreign correspondents as well as a lot of rural issues and kids educational stuff. So it's not all alarmist, whingy shit like that which takes up the chat shows on the channel.

 

Ok, now I'm just procrastinating instead of working.....

.

Edited December 22, 2019 by Hua Guofang

[Mercer]

To be honest journalism is a dead, it's entertainment mostly, even in print. If you want to really learn what's going on in economics/politics you need to read books on these subjects, a lot of books. Almost everything you see politicians doing now has been done to some extent in the past. Only a deep understanding of the past can give you a lens on what's happening now. You start to see the spin they're putting on stories, filter out the bullshit, and focus on the important stuff. Authors writing anything shorter than a book are extremely underpaid/undervalued these days unless they cultivate clicks, and views. Not a lot of room for honesty, and objectivity in that environment.

Edited December 23, 2019 by Mercer

[Dirty_habiT]

31 minutes ago, Hua Guofang said:

The problem is, they're all fake news.

 

The news channels learned decades ago that it's more profitable to tell people what they want to hear rather than report facts and ask questions. Fox is obviously a Trump supporting channel, so they tell the Trump base what they want to hear. The same goes for MSNBC and the like - those that watch Maddow are anti-Trump, so that's the foundation of what they're told. They're just the two sides of the same coin.

 

I don't think the risk is watching Fox or MSNBC, the risk is only watching one 'tribe' of news. Because you're not getting actual news, you're just being comforted with what you want to hear.

But here's where you're definitely "wrong".  There is nothing on the news that I "want" to hear.  None of this sings a certain tune to my ears other than it can be differentiated from the hype news on other channels.  I don't believe that Fox is in the business of spreading lies and hype like other channels are DEFINITELY guilty of doing.  I don't concern myself with who listens to what because I know what I believe and it doesn't involve following any sheep.

I had no care in the world about politics really until Obama started fucking things up and lying, and his cronies are facing the fallout of it here years later.  It's awfully suspicious how quiet he's being during all of this, and I think it's because he knows his time is coming when he's "up for bat".  Politics interests me now only because I hate liars and sheep.  There are a lot of liars and sheep now that are very obvious in society.

 

Again, though... I still don't know why you think that anything bad has happened to your country as an Australian as a result of Trump being in office.  I can't see how people will look past the all time lowest unemployment, the best economy, the best military, the best taxes, and best budget in a long time.

[Hua Guofang]

1 minute ago, Dirty_habiT said:

 

 

Again, though... I still don't know why you think that anything bad has happened to your country as an Australian as a result of Trump being in office. 

 

I never said it did.

[Dirty_habiT]

Then what's the problem, you seem to be very anti orange man..... when he's one of the best leaders we've probably ever had as a nation.  This whole impeachment shit is grasping at straws and you know and i know it's going to go nowhere..... so what was the point.  Was it a big public masturbation act by the dems?  I don't get it.... they've done nothing by try to fuck up the progress of getting business taken care of.  I'm glad we've cut off aid and made other countries pay up on their long over due debts to us.  We can't continue being in debt to china so we've changed some trade deals.  We've cleaned up our money A LOT in the control of this business man.  We don't need some lying bullshit politician that is going to publicly masturbate in front of all of us, we need what we have now.... a business person.... to run our country like the business it is. 

 

For that, I'm happy.... I'm glad we are getting what we need in my life time.  I'm glad we've stopped letting illegal immigrants just come into our country and take our things that we've worked hard for and men and women gave their lives fighting for.  We have our freedom and independence at a cost, and that cost is not being a pussy and letting other people walk on us and take advantage.  We've had democrat politicains in office previously that allow other countries to take advantage of us because it benefits them and their families only..... without regard to the American people.

 

So, say whatever you want.  I'm going to vote as hard as I can for Trump when it comes time again, and i'm not ashamed to say that.... at all.  I'm proud to be a supporter of the best president we've had in a very very very long time.  I'll be very surprised if anyone does a better job than him after he's out of office.