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I'd probably buy this if I came across it and it was a quality print. I wouldn't wear it, but this is an epic example of the times that is going to be an incredible thing in 20+ years to look back on.

I just touched on health care in another thread. Truth be told Decyferon's statement, fuck the political class, and fuck Trump are 100% in line with my core values. That said, I'm also not entirely su

this is a good point. "defunding" is not "abolishing" here; i am for ~ defunding ~. i agree that simply subtracting our global presence is bad in most instances and that a lot of bad people would love

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1 minute ago, Mercer said:

 

This is how taxes work, a direct threat of violence. The State decides you owe them, if you don't comply, violence.


Incarceration I suppose. But taxes are an unfortunate fact of life. I just don’t see why healthcare is the final straw for people to be fed up. 
 

Like @Qaweesaid “ if i'm paying taxes, i would rather have my tax dollars go to pay for someones health care than a drone strike on a wedding in rural pakistan”

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https://www.fraserinstitute.org/categories/health-care-wait-times

 

”The total wait time that patients face can be examined in two consecutive segments. [1] From referral by a general practi- tioner to consultation with a specialist. The waiting time in this segment increased from 8.7 weeks in 2018 to 10.1 weeks in 2019. This wait time is 173% longer than in 1993, when it was 3.7 weeks. The shortest waits for specialist consultations are in Quebec (7.2 weeks) while the longest occur in Prince Edward Island (28.8 weeks). [2] From the consultation with a special- ist to the point at which the patient receives treatment. The waiting time in this segment decreased from 11.0 weeks in
2018 to 10.8 weeks this year. This wait time is 92% longer than in 1993 when it was 5.6 weeks, and about three and one-half weeks longer than what physicians consider to be clinically
“reasonable” (7.2 weeks). The shortest specialist-to-treatment waits are found in Ontario (8.0 weeks), while the longest are in Prince Edward Island (20.5 weeks).
It is estimated that, across the 10 provinces, the total num- ber of procedures for which people are waiting in 2019 is 1,062,286. This means that, assuming that each person waits for only one procedure, 2.9% of Canadians are waiting for treatment in 2019. The proportion of the population waiting for treatment varies from a low of 1.7% in Quebec to a high of 5.8% in Nova Scotia. It is important to note that physicians report that only about 12.1% of their patients are on a waiting
list because they requested a delay or postponement.”

 

and it’s only getting worse. this isn’t sustainable. 

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2 minutes ago, Dark_Knight said:

taxes are an unfortunate fact of life.

 

 Sort of like medical expenses, racism, and the fact we're all going to die?

 

The fact is, out of those three things we can actually do something about eliminating taxes. 

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3 minutes ago, Elena Delle Donne said:

 

oh yes. love this for us

I hate to think of the world without the US as the dominant superpower 

 

e: honestly though no one has a say on that other than Americans, can’t fault you for feeling that way personally 

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17 minutes ago, Dark_Knight said:

What can we do? Defund the military?

 

That's kind of a goal post shift but, yes, in fact that's an excellent idea. Most of the waste comes from the military.

 

As @misteravenhas mentioned up until 1913 there was no income tax, yet we had things like roads, a military, etc. It's tough to imagine some of the things we fund via taxes being funded any other way, but it's demonstrably possible for each service you're having trouble imagining being funded using non violence. That conversation is a long one. For now I'll stick with people funding their own health care individually, as a family, as a co-op, or not at all if they choose not to.

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22 minutes ago, Kults said:

I hate to think of the world without the US as the dominant superpower 

this is a good point. "defunding" is not "abolishing" here; i am for ~ defunding ~. i agree that simply subtracting our global presence is bad in most instances and that a lot of bad people would love that power vacuum. in many senses we are more progressive and egalitarian than much of the world. but i would argue that relatively little of that is capable of being spread by lockheed martin or academi and that while the current president loves the MOTHER OF ALL BOMBS and shit, we can do almost nothing with force alone now. 

 

but i also think a lot of people my age (our age? i'm early 30s) are sick of things being the way they were at the pentagon. our national pride and joy etc etc has tremendous opportunity costs that most of us aren't into paying anymore. 

 

i think a lot of people in their 30s and 40s grew up watching the wars in iraq and afghanistan happen and saw the united states military and our sick flavor of nationalistic imperialism at its worst. we really fucked shit up over there and killed 600,000+, too. we invaded a country based on cooked intelligence, stirred up a civil war, created isis, and flirted with doing it again in iran. we arguably became the bad guys. we're more than capable of doing it again; none of the people who made those decisions faced any consequences, and most of them live happy peaceful lives now. dick cheney is still alive, certainly a strong argument that there is no god. 

 

from less of an ideological standpoint: the rest of the world is kicking our ass in cyber. we look dumb as shit spending $1 trillion+ on an F35 that doesn't fly when china or russia can discover a zero day exploit that can ground all of them. we have a big expensive standing army and a defenseless power grid. the pentagon is rife with waste and fraud and abuse. biggest budget, never even been audited. 

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I'd rather not hand my money over to an organization that spends a very small percentage actually helping people, and the other 90% on stuff like $70,000 guided bombs to drop on people that earn $2 a day.

 

Honestly, most people think this idea of non-aggression is garbage today. But it wasn't too long ago most people thought homosexuality was an abomination, and slavery was a good idea. What are the chances todays popular beliefs are the right ones? I mean the current mess of a system brought us Cheeto Jesus, George Floyd's murder, the Iraq war etc. just needs a few tweaks here and there.

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also i extremely want to get ahead of the insinuation that i'm psyched about joe biden on this front. he and hillary clinton and barack obama were all very cool with various sweeping military actions of questionable integrity/strategy/legality. obama loved a troop surge. hillary defended her iraq war vote a lot. none of them will do anything about this. 

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That's another way to measure a President's accomplishment,  just like a sniper's kind of. It's the number of kills I think they can accomplish over 4 years that matter most, at least to me when I'm choosing. Some people measure by gallons of spray tan, other's, the number of kids sniffed, the important part is having absolute faith this system is near perfect, and just needs a few tweaks.

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19 hours ago, Qawee said:

 

if i'm paying taxes, i would rather have my tax dollars go to pay for someones health care than a drone strike on a wedding in rural pakistan

 

Unfortunately you don't get to decide such things when the leaders of your country do what they want to do.  This is EXACTLY one of the really good things that Trump is doing for this country.  He's douching out "the bad hombres" in our government system as he can find them.  BRAV FUCKIN O for doing that. 

I will support a fucking green woman with 3 dicks as president if she commits to the same goal.

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Also, what you're referring to I think happened in 2008, according to this article:

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wech_Baghtu_wedding_party_airstrike

 

Your boy Barry was responsible for those strikes, they happened under his watch.  I surely hope you wouldn't attempt top sit here and tell me that he didn't ok that to happen.  I'd certainly be entertained to watch you try anyway.

 

Fuckin next!

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18 hours ago, Dark_Knight said:

I don’t have the answers, no one does. I just think we should catch up with the rest of the civilized world.

 

Which country is it that we should try to "catch up to" again?  And what is it that they're doing "better" than we are doing?

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17 hours ago, Kults said:

 

 

they’re right in saying that about meds. it’s about the only upside. the gov hammers out deals with generic pill manufacturers to get boatloads of cheap knock off meds so the bloated system can even pay for it at all. 

 

grass always greener kinda thing for sure but trust me, I’ve lived under this dumpster fire of a medical system  my entire life and it’s absolute trash. you over pay when you don’t need to and when you finally do need it, the service you get is so poor it cements the fact that you payed for fuck all for years. 

 

Do you think the access to more/better drugs (potentially opiates) has led to a drug problem in Canada that wasn't there before access to such medicines was as easy as it is now?

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16 hours ago, Dark_Knight said:

How are we going to eliminate taxes then?

 

Cut government salaries to very low numbers where it's not "profitable" in any way to work in the government.  You have to WANT to do it.

 

Nobody becomes a teacher to make themselves rich, they do it because they want to teach kids.  You cannot say this same thing about politicians.  There's a ton of nepotism in politics and buddy deals.  We need to make politics "fair" internally before it can be "fair" externally.  Right now there is a whole lot of stuff going on internally that is unfair, dishonest, and immoral to the people of USA, and by proxy the rest of the world.  You can see the effects reaching Ukraine from just this most recent "political round" we've had here.

 

I would like to say that I'm blessed to be on this forum among people that are so smart.  I would have never thought nearly 20 years ago now that I'd still be here and that we'd be having these kinds of discussions.

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2 hours ago, Dirty_habiT said:

 

Do you think the access to more/better drugs (potentially opiates) has led to a drug problem in Canada that wasn't there before access to such medicines was as easy as it is now?

def not. By and large there is no legal opioid epidemic in Canada. why that is I don’t know but if i had to guess it’s likely because we don’t have the massive pharma lobbying that goes on south of the border. no doctors are handing out large/long term opioid scripts. 

 

we are however drowning in fentanyl. thanks china! 

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2 hours ago, Dirty_habiT said:

 

Do you think the access to more/better drugs (potentially opiates) has led to a drug problem in Canada that wasn't there before access to such medicines was as easy as it is now?

I should specify too, we don’t get better drugs, quite the opposite. the cheap drugs here are all generic knock offs. it’s like comparing RC cola to Coke. Cheap, sure. Better? Not even remotely close. 

 

they’re cheap but they aren’t ‘good’

 

its also very shady. Apotex founder (one of the larger generic meds manufacturer) murdered in his house not too long ago

 

https://www.google.ca/amp/s/www.thestar.com/amp/news/canada/2020/01/15/barry-and-honey-sherman-were-murdered-within-hours-of-arriving-home-toronto-police-say.html

 

Their bodies were in a seated position in their basement swimming pool room, held upright by belts around their necks attached to a low railing. Forensic sources have told the Star that it would be difficult to pinpoint a time of death two days later, given that the bodies were found in a humid environment.’

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2 hours ago, Dirty_habiT said:

 

Cut government salaries to very low numbers where it's not "profitable" in any way to work in the government.  You have to WANT to do it.

 

Nobody becomes a teacher to make themselves rich, they do it because they want to teach kids.  You cannot say this same thing about politicians.  There's a ton of nepotism in politics and buddy deals.  We need to make politics "fair" internally before it can be "fair" externally.  Right now there is a whole lot of stuff going on internally that is unfair, dishonest, and immoral to the people of USA, and by proxy the rest of the world.  You can see the effects reaching Ukraine from just this most recent "political round" we've had here.

 

I would like to say that I'm blessed to be on this forum among people that are so smart.  I would have never thought nearly 20 years ago now that I'd still be here and that we'd be having these kinds of discussions.


I think that’d be a great idea. But how are we going to have our elected officials propose something that is against their own interest? 

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