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misteraven

Weigh In: Social Credit System, Red Flags and how to identify the trouble makers amongst us

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1 hour ago, morton said:

as we plunge into a climate and technology driven apocalypse climaxing with mass death on a scale never before imagined. 

 

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Weigh in - this only applies to everyone especially all of us, if you have a SMIDDGEN of your stuff out in the sphere you’re GOT....as damn nearly everyone said  it’s inevitable,. Most people on here myself included have gross misgrievence with the economic puppet show but there AINT any  venues to air it out. At the same time though most of us are opportunistic, I personally have been leveraging myself on the plus side for the big picture. Even though I have contradicting ideas with those of the structure I still contribute and benefit indeterminatly and  implementing my suggestions which I feel are common would be very painful and more than likely be a trepanated mess,  so it is what it is.

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Double what?

 

Think he might be talking about how we’re fucking ourselves in such a system by participating in online conversations like this one?

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So I haven't the time to read through this in total, nor reply properly either, sorry. But a few thoughts straight up.

 

China mixes legitimacy with control/power. As an example, when Xi Jinping came to power he enacted a huge anti-corruption campaign, which was sorely needed. This campaign both reigned in the uncontrolled debauchery that was occurring in the Party from the lower levels to the highest offices (some very big names fell) but it also took out a lot of Xi's competitors. And of course, none of Xi's family or close power base have been impacted/investigated. This Social Credit system is the same, it has positive elements to it, as in, theoretically, punishing those who rip off charities, people who are repeat offenders, corrupt officials in public and private office, etc. Many people in China support this system. But it also, at its foundation, is a tool of control and coercion.

 

The hardest thing for me to accept that it is not based on law, something that should rule all parts of society, but it largely includes values. Of course, on boards such as the Oontz, law is a matter for discussion. However, in China the Party, by way of the constitution and proclamation, is actually above the law - there is even an internal mechanism for punishing impropriety within the Party with its own 'justice' system and detention facilities. And on top of that, apparently the Party gets to decide what national values are and personal values are in China - not the nation nor the person. Put it this way, group sex is illegal in China because it's "against Chinese values".

 

Determining social values in China gives the Party power in at least two ways. Firstly, it allows the Party to set the spiritual foundation of society in China, it sets values that support Communist Party power and rule. Secondly, it allows the Party to look virtuous by being imbued with values that are exclusively Chinese. After the fall of the Soviet Union, China decided that part of the reasn that "great system" collapsed was the infiltration of Western values and ideas (funily enough, Communism and Socialism are Western ideas based on a version of equality and fairness that is at odds with traditional confucianism). So when the Party sets the values they also are placing themselves as the guardians of China and all that has evern been in the Central Kingdom (the guardians at the gate defending against the barbarian horde) and they allow themselves the space in creating an enemy that the country can unite against. Of course, not only does this make an "us against them" mentality and allow everyone to think that the Chinese people are unique in the world and nobody else understands China but it also justifies controlling information flows into the county, the Great Firewall, censorship and a police state to defend against the constant threat from outside that is perpetually trying to destroy China. Soviet Russia was very, very similar.

 

The Social Credit System does a number of things. It creates an Orwelian system that invades all areas of society to allow surveillance and the knowledge within society that you are always being watched. One of the PArty's great tricks is to kill a chicken to scare the monkey - make examples and then let fear dictate everyone's behaviour. Once people know what can happen and that they have no defence they will censor their own behaviour and you can go about making yourself look benevolent and the one that brought stability to a land that was previously chaotic.

 

The system also collects unimaginable amounts of data - biometric, behavioural, financial, geographic, etc. etc. that all goes into training China's AI R&D, which will then be turned back on the population for even greater control. In Xinjiang, where the Han run concentration camps against the Uighurs (well documented, look it up), they are taking blood samples, voice samples, full biometrics, etc. etc. They are getting to know the local population inside and out. The Han population don't push back against it as there is a terrorist threat from the region (partially jihadi and partially pushback against the Han, which have colonised the region. These people are Turkic, they are not "Chinese") and the Party has developed a racist attitude in China against the Uighurs, which allows them to seem justified in persecuting them. What they Han don't realise is that Xinjiang is a testing ground and this will eventually be rolled out across the country. Even if that is not the plan now, future leaderships won't be able to resist the temptation to increase control.

 

So much for a quick response......

 

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Oh, and yes, they are exporting this to other authoritarian and autocratic countries as well as encouraging borderline authoritarians to take it up, because "look how stable China is, even when the US is trying to destabilise it"!

 

There are a number of reasons why they are doing that. Firstly, they make money out of it and allow their industry to become champion in this space. Secondly, proliferating China's style of governance makes the world safer for China..., or more accurately, makes the world safer for the Communist Party of China. The fewer countries there are pressuring China against human rights abuses and whatnot the safer Party rule is. It also creates a nascent "Sino-bloc" in the world, similar to the 1st and 2nd world blocs during the Cold War (that's western V Sovietled/socialist bloc. The Third World was the non-Aligned movement (which actually overlapped with both 1st and 2nd and was more anti-colonial than anything else) and it's where the Third World country terminology comes from today as most of those post-colonial countries were poor and under-developed).

 

Lastely, many suspect that China will have a 'look' into the systems that it is exporting, in terms of data capture, which will then increase their ability to commit espionage, develop AI, track their own opponents outside of China, etc. etc.

 

Clearly, this is as bad as it fucking gets. No government should be doing this kind of shit, least of all an authoritarian autocratic single party state.

Edited by Hua Guofang
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Wow I’m a hot mess I meant to post that in the nonsense thread, I’m still trying to decipher what drunk me meant, but I really appreciate the dialogue and people’s perspectives. 

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