misteraven Posted July 25, 2019 Share Posted July 25, 2019 So you guys have seen me talking a whole lot of shit about social media. (if not, then fo read this thread). Anyhow, with all the media hype talking about shadow banning and the surrounding controversy about whether its a right-wing conspiracy or fact, I thought I'd share some personal detail in regards to how it is currently affecting the 12ozProphet feed... About 2 or 3 months ago, I submitted my third verification request to Instagram. I'm obviously looking to ween off off there as soon as I'm able, but likewise, I acknowledge that its an almost necessary evil and have seen how it can be an effective tool to quickly push out messages for some people / companies. As a business feed, you need to send some sort of business document. So far I've sent them the business filing from my state, a service bill for hosting and articles of corporation filed with the IRS. Each time, they've sat on the request for 30+ days and then have denied my request without explanation. The last time, they said I also had to wait 60 days before resubmitting, again without any explanation as to why I was being denied verification or why I had to wait. It's been obvious to me for the last couple years that engagement on Instagram is dwindling. That far fewer people bother to double tap, even less bother to drop comments and that probably 80%+ of followers are genuinely trying to follow and not a bot or an individual running a bot, thinking that I'll follow back and help them boost their own follower account. During those sweeps Instagram does about twice a year, I've seen our stats go from almost 60k followers, down to hardly above 50k. In fact the only real growth I've seen in the last 3 years or so, has occurred in these last two weeks or so as word has gotten out about the forum. We've probably picked up about 300 new followers and seems that it's not bot activity as the numbers are holding. I'm getting above average number of comments and probably more people reposting and calling out 12ozProphet than at any other time in my experience with Instagram. I'm getting dozens and dozens of DM's as well as doing a ton of outreach when I see people comment or call out 12ozprophet. As you also know, I've been pushing out a lot of subversive messaging about bringing the conversations back to 12oz and beating the drum about restoring accounts. Now, despite a steady decline these last few years, there's been a significant drop off since my last verification request was denied. When I look at the analytics they supply, I can see that typically at best, under 10% of our followers are seeing our posts. Less than 1% in most cases are seeing our posts based upon hashtags, despite the hashtags being vetted out to be high performing hashtags and all are arguably accurate to the content. I read somewhere that Instagram does not like images with text in them, so I've stopped doing that. I also read that they don't like integrations, so I disconnected almost every third party integration I've had hooked up. I've honestly never run any shady software to boost our numbers. I've never had a post taken down for a violation of the rules. Yet, the return on posts is approaching mass email spam type numbers... Literally a fraction of 1% engagement. My only theory is that Instagram is further along in their death spiral than I could have ever imagined, or they've shadow banned my account and / or suppressing my posts. I've been able to verify some of this by posting nearly the same content on the 12ozCollective feed, which has under 1k followers. Same images usually, same exact hashtags, posted at about the same time. In terms of percentage, that other account wildly out performs 12ozProphet for all metrics, but especially for views deriving from hashtags. In fact, it almost garners as many total likes as 12ozProphet, which as stated previously, has almost 54k followers. Each post leads to average of far more new follows, presumably because 30% plus of the views are coming from hashtags. 12ozProphet rarely goes much higher than single digits for that stat, which means its not being seen in the explore section or as a recommended account. Meanwhile 12ozCollective will awesome see several hundred views stemming from hashtags. So the only logical conclusion is that Instagram is actually suppressing 12ozProphet, which begs the question of why? Are they actually threatened by what we're doing? Anyhow, I wanted to share this with you guys so you recognize the significance of all this. How a corporate middle man can manipulate the perception of things and how we've reached a point in life where stuff like this literally makes or breaks people and companies since social media has become such a prolific part of personal and business life. I know I've said a thousand times already, but.... Please spread the word. People really need to recognize the slippery slope this precedent represents, not to mention how these very same companies are literally amassing unfathomable fortunes by selling out your privacy and selling off your profile data. Please read these threads if you haven't already and please, please, please help me get word out. Was just talking to @Tesseractthis morning about how surreal it is for us to have met from across the world and how surreal it is that all these years later we're still in touch and now talking about our kids. None of us could have imagined this sort of thing back when the forum started, but that's the magic of what we created here. It's obvious with the benefit of hindsight that with the structure of this forum, that meaningful conversations happen, which in turn lead to meaningful online relationships. It's equally obvious to me that this could never really happen on Instagram as the structure of it is shallow and the interactions on there are fleeting and superficial. I sincerely hope that more people begin to wake up to that fact and I've made it a mission to use 12ozProphet to counter that to the best of my ability. Help me do this. Time To Rally Up… https://forum.12ozprophet.com/topic/87403-time-to-rally-up-if-youre-genuinely-a-fan-supporter-of-12oz-please-read-this/ Officially Official - The 12ozProphet Reunion Tee and the return of the 12oz Forum. https://forum.12ozprophet.com/topic/87529-officially-official-the-12ozprophet-reunion-tee-and-the-return-of-the-12oz-forum Has the social media revolution devolved conversation? https://forum.12ozprophet.com/topic/86519-weigh-in-has-the-social-media-revolution-devolved-conversation 1 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
El Jefe Uno Posted July 25, 2019 Share Posted July 25, 2019 I've noticed on IG, it seems like I see posts from the same accounts over-and-over again. This is anecdotal, but it seems I only ever see posts from a small segment of people that I follow unless I specifically view someone's profile/feed. As far as the verification that you've been denied - what does that verification do/provide? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TreSixO Posted July 25, 2019 Share Posted July 25, 2019 (edited) So I know a few legitimate, contracted models (not like alt model / IG models, ones with actual agents and booking), and they have been talking about the IG shadow ban shit for awhile and ive been following it. Its all designed to force you into paying for premium placement adds - if you get too many free views then you have to pay. Its not a conspiracy to silence - its an algorithmic adjustment of your feed placement to squeeze you to pay up . Edited July 25, 2019 by TreSixO 2 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
abrasivesaint Posted July 25, 2019 Share Posted July 25, 2019 (edited) Those social media algorithms can suck my diddly dick. Instagram is the last of the mohicans in terms of my social media participation, but even thats pushing my buttons a lot.. I follow a lot of skateboard oriented accounts and when a clip will get posted by the skaters sponsors, the same clip will show up back to back from his 5 different sponsors.. Their algorithm for watching 1 video and then getting spammed by every other similar video is annoying as fuck too. I watch one stupid video of some asshat catching a shitty tag that took a full :59 seconds to barely finish or some chick dancing to shitty music and i get bombarded for days with videos i barely cared about in the first place. I’ve been unfollowing a lot of accounts and people i know lately. I just don't give a fuck anymore. My streaming services all got the chop too. Netflix, Hulu, HBOGo, Amazon, all gone. It felt weird to get rid of streaming and social media shit, and it annoyed me that it felt weird. Like i was going Unabomber style or some shit but i had to remind myself, “oh.. this is just what real life used to be.” I’m also getting those spam DMs every couple days saying “take off my pants!!” I understand the importance of stuff like IG from a business stand point. From a pure user stance it’s getting old. I feel like a shit moth to a shit light and i got shit hosed. Edited July 25, 2019 by abrasivesaint 1 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TreSixO Posted July 25, 2019 Share Posted July 25, 2019 I hadn't actually had any internet at my house for about 3 years, so I've been all physical media for awhile. Or pirated af Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
abrasivesaint Posted July 25, 2019 Share Posted July 25, 2019 (edited) Damn i havent gone 3 years. Been a few months though. I don't have the internet in my current apartment but the missus’ kid is going to start staying with us here soon so wifi will be coming. Edited July 25, 2019 by abrasivesaint No internet but my phone and unlimited data is always right there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CALIgula Posted July 25, 2019 Share Posted July 25, 2019 Im sure it all comes down to money. 12oz is competition. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dirty_habiT Posted July 25, 2019 Share Posted July 25, 2019 "A dead man tells no lies." "We don't like what you're saying so we're going to make sure you can't say it." "You will pay for not agreeing with us." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mercer Posted July 25, 2019 Share Posted July 25, 2019 Anyone with an IG account can click on the "notify me when this user posts" or whatever the fuck that profile link is called now, then click likes immediately as soon as 12oz posts they start allowing the content show to more of 12oz's followers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
misteraven Posted July 25, 2019 Author Share Posted July 25, 2019 Just an update that todays post is performing just as bad despite Instagram metrics claiming Thursday as the best day to post. I tried to cheat the algorithm by posting 6 images of old graffiti out of the archive, followed by a couple of the new reunion shirt. I did allude to our posts being suppressed in the caption and encouraged people to comment and share. I added targeted hashtags and stripped a couple usual ones out. Stats are still in the toilet. Engagement is roughly 0.22% (not even a quarter of 1%). Just sayin'... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
El Mamerro Posted July 25, 2019 Share Posted July 25, 2019 What TreSixO said. You hit the anti-Goldilocks zone with your follower count and now it's throttled until you start paying up. Starting to hit this with my company at 17k followers, and now having to do more paid posts to get reach. 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
misteraven Posted July 26, 2019 Author Share Posted July 26, 2019 7 minutes ago, El Mamerro said: What TreSixO said. You hit the anti-Goldilocks zone with your follower count and now it's throttled until you start paying up. Starting to hit this with my company at 17k followers, and now having to do more paid posts to get reach. Mind explaining a little more? I've spent a little on paid posts before. By default, I think paid posts are lame as fuck, but I tried to be a good sport and maybe dropped $500 across a handful of posts. Not much, but same time, there was no incentive to continue paying up when the results were worse than the organic metrics, which are dismal. Honestly, the stats I'm seeing almost don't justify the effort of taking photos and typing a caption to post to Instagram, so can't imagine doing that and paying for that privilege. Interested in hearing more so I can attempt to understands why anyone would bother paying. Also keeping in mind that the conversion to sales is a fraction of the engagement so if you consider a successful post to be 10% engagement (about the best I've been able to find evidence for on any feed), than you need to have followers of 1mm+ if you go off the simple formula of 10% engagement and 10% of that being a successful conversion. Those are actually exaggerated numbers based off all I've seen and know, but this are the type of metrics that would be needed for it to be successful. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
El Mamerro Posted July 26, 2019 Share Posted July 26, 2019 I can't explain much else cause I'm frankly not super involved with the technical aspects of social... but it does seem that hitting mid-double digit followers causes the algorithm to start dropping you pretty badly. Not sure why, but I'm guessing it's to reduce bigger accounts dominating regular users' feeds and instead surfacing more regular-people stuff. Paid is working OKish but we don't put out organic-looking posts on paid, they're straight up ads. IG Stories working gangbusters though. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
misteraven Posted July 26, 2019 Author Share Posted July 26, 2019 Thanks man... I'd already been putting more efforts towards stories myself, so this sort of reaffirms that. Mind if I ask what you're doing these days? P.S. Nice avatar, LOL! Just got to change up the cover image on your profile now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mercer Posted July 26, 2019 Share Posted July 26, 2019 I think it's another angle to capitalize on what they feel is a tremendous investment in time and effort, for accounts with large numbers of followers. Throttling is a good way to convert some of that effort on your part into money, paid by creators with large followings into facebook inc. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mn1_fuckos Posted July 26, 2019 Share Posted July 26, 2019 Strange as soon as you post on the 12oz account or your personal account It shoots straight to the top of my feed I think it has something to do with personal user engagement as well. Basically profiles you frequent and interact with. I’ll get dumb fuckin ads of peoples personal Instagram feed with some shitty selfies. Just normal people that aren’t pitching any products and not even mediocre photography just straight up selfies Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CILONE/SK Posted July 26, 2019 Share Posted July 26, 2019 43 minutes ago, mn1_fuckos said: I’ll get dumb fuckin ads of peoples personal Instagram feed with some shitty selfies. Just normal people that aren’t pitching any products and not even mediocre photography just straight up selfies Can I get your instagram? I have selfies that I want to try to sell you. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
~KRYLON2~ Posted July 26, 2019 Share Posted July 26, 2019 fuck IG, just start throwing up 12OZ stickers everywhere. Genuine curiosity of random people will lead them here. 2 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CILONE/SK Posted July 26, 2019 Share Posted July 26, 2019 I have been throwing up stickers at most places I go. Put up a on during a trip to Puerto Vallarta in April. 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
misteraven Posted July 26, 2019 Author Share Posted July 26, 2019 I was planning to double up with the stickers in these forum tee orders but we try to throw a bunch into every order. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mn1_fuckos Posted July 26, 2019 Share Posted July 26, 2019 (edited) @CILONE/SK I might already follow your account come on man show a little leg. Edited July 26, 2019 by mn1_fuckos Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CILONE/SK Posted July 26, 2019 Share Posted July 26, 2019 6 minutes ago, mn1_fuckos said: @CILONE/SK I might already follow your account come on man show a little leg. Sure, if you really want me to. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mercer Posted July 26, 2019 Share Posted July 26, 2019 pull the end of the negaprop to turn her on/off? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+plus+ Posted July 26, 2019 Share Posted July 26, 2019 I used to like instagram but they have it so I only see a few people, kind of like the retarded youtube al gore rhythm . Used to show me all kinds of obscure music and now its the same songs ive been listening to. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
6Pennies Posted July 26, 2019 Share Posted July 26, 2019 Definitely IG engagement is in decline, but that may be partially its own doing, as IG has voiced its intent to not show "like" counts. I think there was a bubble, and that bubble burst, but is IG dead, maybe not.... As the pull back has caused a small transformation with a focus on "micro-influencers"-- accts with less than 10,000 but have higher engagement numbers and more authentic interactions and followers. Though my nude photography acct only has about 8000 followers, I've been in contact with more and more models lately. My landscape acct loses followers daily, but they overall engagement on my posts have increased. Go figure.... My read on all of this is that it's not about big engagement numbers anymore, but folks are more authentically engaging with accts/social medias that are more meaningful to them..... 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Intangible Posted July 27, 2019 Share Posted July 27, 2019 I’ve felt like there’s some sort of suppression for a while. like as business if you run an ad it allows you to move up a tier or some bullshit. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SMdoubleXL Posted July 27, 2019 Share Posted July 27, 2019 You’re so on point with the -we don’t have legit conversations (even via internet) with people instead it’s just superficial posts- And instagram must know that people actually need interactions and I think that’s why they introduced the polls and questions n shit. Def reaching anymore it seems LIVE and IGTV type shit now. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
misteraven Posted July 27, 2019 Author Share Posted July 27, 2019 Wife sent me these... Maybe I'm not being singled out after all, but still fucking sucks. Fuck Instagram and Facebook regardless. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dirty_habiT Posted July 27, 2019 Share Posted July 27, 2019 You are being singled out along with many others. The reason is you’re successful enough to pay the tax to them. If you choose not to then you choose to not take priority placement in the feed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
abrasivesaint Posted August 4, 2019 Share Posted August 4, 2019 (edited) Well this is fucking interesting.. Edited August 4, 2019 by abrasivesaint 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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