misteraven Posted July 1, 2019 Share Posted July 1, 2019 So as we get into the next United States presidential election, you can already see gun control being a hot topic in the presidential primary debates. I've been trying hard to avoid the typical debates with politics and guns since most of these type of conversations really are a waste of time, but seems the candidates in the Democratic debates have sunk to an all new low level of ignorance when it comes to this particular discussion. It's honestly pretty incredible to me that anyone can get on a stage anywhere, let alone the national stage of broadcast television, in the race to become the next president of the United States no less, when they so clearly have no clue what they're talking about. How can it not be a gigantic red flag about their credibility when they're stumbling through statements, tripping over words and not actually making any coherent point. Clearly, they know this will be a major topic, so how can you not take some time to research the issue and formulate a coherent strategy with some arguable (reasonable?) attempt at an effort that has even some chance of success, let alone simply have a defendable position on the subject. By this point, I'd have to assume that most of America, whether interested or not, have a basic understanding of the stats, terminology and basic argument on both sides. So how is a politician that has any serious interest in the presidency, literally unable to get up on stage and not eloquently, or at least confidently, deliver a response to questions on this topic? Again, for the record, I'm not partisan, I distrust and dislike both parties about equally and hold the belief that if you're made to eat a shit sandwich, whether you do it with your left hand or right hand doesn't really matter; you're still stuck eating shit. I think Bernie Sanders is a freakin quack and it boggles my mind that anyone would even remotely consider him as presidential material. And to balance that statement out, I also think Trump is a different flavor of stupidity and ironically has done more for gun control in 1 term, than Obama did in 2 terms. So I guess this thread is about how far we've sunk in our political process more than anything. How these ass hats shown on stage in this debate are supposed to be the best, brightest and most qualified amongst us to lead a nation of 320 million people, a nation with a $1.02 trillion dollar gross domestic product and be the commander in chief of the most advanced and effective military on the planet, and the $4.1 trillion national budget that goes with it. Here's an edited down video of that segment of the debate with commentary by Colion Noir. I've been following Colion for quite a while when he was just starting to build an audience. And for transparency, if you don't know him, he's a black lawyer from Chicago that also happens to be a primary spokesperson for the NRA for the last many years. Following that is the full unedited segment as broadcasted for context. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
misteraven Posted July 1, 2019 Author Share Posted July 1, 2019 Oh yeah, here's an unabashed plug for the 12oz Tactical Group - https://forum.12ozprophet.com/groups/3-twelve-ounce-tactical/ and also a link to the Gun Thread if you care to read up some more on related discussion. And yes, I do have a specific position on this topic and am happy to have a respectful debate / discussion on the subject, as well as answer any questions you might have on the subject. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kults Posted July 1, 2019 Share Posted July 1, 2019 This cunt wants to forcefully buy-back your guns. When pressed on the issue of how he’d handle the mutiny/ revolution caused by this he said the government controls the bombs... this is exactly WHY you need guns. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
misteraven Posted July 1, 2019 Author Share Posted July 1, 2019 A gun buy back is simply graceful confiscation... Would never work here. Pretty amazing they keep suggesting it. Like maybe if you repeat it enough times, the USA as a whole will just roll over and accept it. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mn1_fuckos Posted July 1, 2019 Share Posted July 1, 2019 Gun control is for folks who think cops will not frame their ass because they have a thin blue line sticker on the back of their car and hippie liberals who think violence would seize to exist without guns. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mercer Posted July 1, 2019 Share Posted July 1, 2019 @mn1_fuckosSeems like every Uber driver here has the thin blue line stickers. Cops thank them for their support and proceed to abuse the shit out of them. 1 hour ago, misteraven said: A gun buy back is simply graceful confiscation... Would never work here. Pretty amazing they keep suggesting it. Like maybe if you repeat it enough times, the USA as a whole will just roll over and accept it. The Agorist community is always organizing, and donating junk/unusable guns into pools for this. Often time bankrupting these programs before they can disarm the locals. If done correctly the gun grabbers will claim victory for running out of funds so quickly, claiming the operation was a success. If one of these pops up locally for any of you, let me know, many of these programs offer a flat rate of $200 per gun, "no questions asked" lol. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
misteraven Posted July 1, 2019 Author Share Posted July 1, 2019 2 hours ago, Mercer said: @mn1_fuckosSeems like every Uber driver here has the thin blue line stickers. Cops thank them for their support and proceed to abuse the shit out of them. The Agorist community is always organizing, and donating junk/unusable guns into pools for this. Often time bankrupting these programs before they can disarm the locals. If done correctly the gun grabbers will claim victory for running out of funds so quickly, claiming the operation was a success. If one of these pops up locally for any of you, let me know, many of these programs offer a flat rate of $200 per gun, "no questions asked" lol. Better than that are the dudes that park just outside the buyback and offer $250 for first dibs. LOL 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
misteraven Posted July 1, 2019 Author Share Posted July 1, 2019 Also, technically a zip gun is a gun and you can make one for like $10 in parts. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Schnitzel Posted July 2, 2019 Share Posted July 2, 2019 Just out of interest how many guns are owned between members of this thread? actually is that too personal a question. Not criticising just curious. It's just so foreign to me - never even fired a gun beyond and air rifle. Though am curious and it's only $99 for 65 shots round the corner from a variety of pistols from a Glock to a 357 magnum via various other pistols. Always booked out at lunchtime though and wife will absolutely not go for it though she would be a netter shot than me if her nerf gun skills are anything to go by. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
misteraven Posted July 2, 2019 Author Share Posted July 2, 2019 Gun ownership in America is hard to pin down accurately. Our government is forbidden, through legislation, from maintaining records of who own guns. The reasoning is that it's a constitutionally protected right and history shows that more often than not, it's been a first step towards gun confiscation. As such, there's a firewall in that process, so when you go to purchase a gun, you fill out a background check form. This form is submitted into the NICS system which is a background check system managed by the FBI. They are required to process and issue a response within a clearly defined window or the request is automatically approved (reason for this is to prevent abuse by having them drag ass on approvals, which in essence prevents an individual from exercising their right to ownership without due process). The retailer selling it is required to keep a copy of the transaction and NICS approval so that if the gun turns up in a crime, it'll be traced back to the manufacturer, who then point to who the retailer is. The retailer then has to supply the info (and only that specific record) or risk a major federal offense that generally starts with being shutdown and with prison time. Lot of people often bring up what they call a gun show loophole, which is more myth than truth. At the federal level, there is no legislation requiring the NICS check on a private sale, which is defined as a one time sale between two private individuals that are not regularly involved in the sale of firearms. The part that you don't hear mentioned is that should the gun be used in a crime, it still gets traced to a manufacturer, which then points to the retailer, that then pints to the last person on record. As such, you're on the hook and responsible, so its self policing in that way in that nobody wants to be stuck holding the bag. SO yes, you can buy a gun over the internet or even off some guy you met in the street, but 99.9% of the time, the seller will request the transaction goo through an FFL (federal firearms license holder), who in turn charges $10 - $25 to middle man the deal and perform the check. In any case, to answer your actual question, estimates range from 400 million to over 1 billion small arms in America (small arms being defined as 50 caliber and below). Note that the USA has 320 million people and that some states have managed to somehow circumvent these constitutional rights to make it all but impossible to own a gun. Regardless, its a shit load of guns and would imply that ownership is far more than what people have acknowledged in surveys. In many places its almost become a taboo subject, despite it being woven into American culture. And yes, I own guns. Where I live, its probably a higher number than most other places and its every day routine to see people walking around at the store or wherever with a holstered firearm. Likewise, I very regularly hear gun fire since the mountains echo and amplify the sound and there's a lot of hunting in the area and a private gun range a couple miles up the road. I can see how in some parts of the USA, it might seem odd or even shocking to see a non-cop armed, but out here its so common, you sort of stop noticing. Also, people here are unusually friendly and exceedingly polite and crime is so low that 10 cops service an area many times the size of Manhattan. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Schnitzel Posted July 2, 2019 Share Posted July 2, 2019 yeah seeing average people walking around strapped would be an eye opener. Are you allowed to be holding a holstered firearm if you're piss drunk at the bar? Like is there an issue with being drunk and armed in public? That estimate of 1 billion is actually lower than i would imagine - only 3.125 guns per person. Naturally heavily skewed to more country/rural areas Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
misteraven Posted July 2, 2019 Author Share Posted July 2, 2019 There are certain rules in regards to limits where you can carry, but they're largely distinguished between carrying concealed versus open carry. For example, in downtown you aren't allowed to open carry, I presume because its a tiny area and full of tourists and probably not conducive to tourism. In regards to carrying concealed, its much more liberal and there are few exceptions (court house for example). You may carry when going into a bar or even when drunk, but you'll find that most people that carry generally conduct themselves with extra good behavior due to that added responsibility. The situation polices itself... Nobody is going to get drunk and stupid with a gun because you'd be fucked and nobody wants that. You do hit on an important point though and that is the more specific you get with laws, the more they lend themselves to become exploited via loop holes as it becomes a matter of arguing the letter of thew law versus the spirit of the law. Also keep in mind that I live in a place where predators are common. We keep our trash in special bins because the bears constantly come through and dig through the trash. To get an idea of what a bear can do, check out this article: http://americanshootingjournal.com/man-survives-bear-attack-but-loses-face/amp/ Additionally we have mountain lions. A male adult mountain lion has a vertical leap of 18ft, meaning he can jump onto the roof of a two story house. We also have tons of wolves, coyotes and elk, so there's a loaded shot gun by the front door along with a big canister of bear spray. I startled a bear one night letting my dog out to piss and I can say for certain that its no joke and that though a heavy caliber firearm is far from balancing the situation out, its better than using strong language when a bear is charging you. Likewise, a lot of people here have livestock so if you're out on a pasture dealing with livestock all day, carrying a gun is juts another tool that comes with the job. People here are used to taking care of themselves. 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
misteraven Posted July 2, 2019 Author Share Posted July 2, 2019 This is pretty amazing in regards to gun ownership... Now a NICS check doesn't necessarily equate to a gun being sold, but the only reason to submit a check is when you are buying a gun. I'm unsure if there is a dealer fee involved (probably is), but I can say for certain that its not just something you do for fun, so it's likely a fair representation of guns sold. Source: https://www.fbi.gov/file-repository/nics_firearm_checks_-_month_year.pdf/view As you can see NICS checks (gun sales) have grown exponentially and the most recent metric published is May 2019 in which 2,349,309 checks were conducted for only that month. Pretty staggering numbers. That being said, its interesting to also note that violent crime (and in fact most crime categories) in America are in steady decline nearly consistently year over year for the last several decades going back to the 1990s. I couldn't find a good chart on the FBI website, but hears a Pew Research Center analysis using FBI statistics: https://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2019/01/03/5-facts-about-crime-in-the-u-s/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mn1_fuckos Posted July 2, 2019 Share Posted July 2, 2019 While we are on the topic of restricting gun ownership. https://www.history.com/news/black-panthers-gun-control-nra-support-mulford-act Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Idontknowoner Posted July 3, 2019 Share Posted July 3, 2019 This is why i own guns and dont support the nra 6 hours ago, mn1_fuckos said: While we are on the topic of restricting gun ownership. https://www.history.com/news/black-panthers-gun-control-nra-support-mulford-act 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dirty_habiT Posted July 3, 2019 Share Posted July 3, 2019 Growing up in Texas I've always been around guns. I was taught at a very early age that they are not toys they are tools. My barrel control is a bit more than almost anyone else's I've ever known except for my dad. I treat it like it's a light saber that will cut you in half if the barrel crosses your path, regardless of if it's loaded. People own guns here for multiple reasons (in TX that is). sport hunting home protection vehicle protection crazy My favorite weapon is probably a VZ-58 followed very closely by an SKS. Anyway, yeah.... try to take guns from Texas, that'll be fun to watch. Also, mountain lions are scary af. They stalk prey in crunchy ass woods and do it with stealth. They also will defend their prey so you shouldn't approach a dead animal in the woods because a mt. lion could be close by ready to attack. I think Misteraven might be up there where grizzlys live, and those bears are not a joke. Black bears are scary too, but they're small.... grizzlys are large and their arm strength/paw size is enough to crush a human bone with a swipe.... and that doesn't even get into what happens w/ the claws in that scenario. Large caliber weapons are a must and some of the pistols that people carry for protection against bears are absolutely massive. I think "The Judge" is one that my family up in Indiana has.... not for bear protection, but because it's a fun gun to own. I **think it can shoot 454 Cosul rounds. I'm probably butchering that though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fat ralphy Posted July 3, 2019 Share Posted July 3, 2019 I am all for gun control. My rifle is secured in a locker in my basement as we speak. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fist 666 Posted July 3, 2019 Share Posted July 3, 2019 3 hours ago, Dirty_habiT said: Black bears are scary too, but they're small.... I see black bears over 600 pounds on a semi regular basis, the record for the state is over 800. Most are under 400 for sure, but those big ones took me from just respecting them to fearing them. 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
misteraven Posted July 3, 2019 Author Share Posted July 3, 2019 17 hours ago, mn1_fuckos said: While we are on the topic of restricting gun ownership. https://www.history.com/news/black-panthers-gun-control-nra-support-mulford-act Getting off topic and this reply isn’t specifically intended to defend the NRA, but if we’re going to go that far back to judge a group today, we can also talk about how in that same era the Democratic Party was sponsoring and implementing Jim Crow laws that were intended to double down on segregation. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jim_Crow_laws Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
morton Posted July 3, 2019 Share Posted July 3, 2019 Wrong category, maybe a mod can move it over to news with the other political threads. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mn1_fuckos Posted July 3, 2019 Share Posted July 3, 2019 @misteraven this is true but it segways into the fact that cities like Chicago where I currently live in make it amazingly difficult for people like ourselves to own firearms of any kind. As of recently its gotten a bit better and your able to apply for a CCW but it isnt always guaranteed. On ocassion there will be a news story of one of the good guys with a gun actually being able to protect himself. I have a few friends who are ex military who conceal carry on a daily in the city and they also have a wide range of small and long arms. I listen to the police scanner when I'm bored just to hear whats going on around the neighborhood and at least once a day in my area there's a call in for shots fired. The laws have done nothing to curb gun violence and the only people who carry are people who shouldn't be carrying. The only people who dont believe in arming themselves are the people who dont get to listen to the police sirens and ambulances rushing to a seen everyday. I watched a car jacking unfold in front of me two summers ago the girl it happened to nearly got dragged down the street. luckily she let go as he took off or I wouldve had to ram the car. After it was all said and done I felt completely helpless theres not much you can do when you when you're outnumbered 3 to 1 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dirty_habiT Posted July 4, 2019 Share Posted July 4, 2019 Man that sounds shitty. I haven't been to Chicago but the stories I've heard and the idea of the place is never shown in a positive light. "When you outlaw guns only outlaws will have guns." You're seeing the proof of that already via the difficulty in obtaining CCWs. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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