Madden shooting

[Kults]

Some guy in Florida yesterday lost a Madden tournament and came back to the bar and opened fire on the other contestants. 3 dead including the shooter, many more injured. The whole thing was caught live on Twitch. Not linking that clip cause fuck that guy. 

 

WTF being so butthurt you lost at Madden you go on a killing spree 

 

https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2018/08/27/jacksonville-shooting-madden-video-tournament-what-we-know/1108962002/

[glorydays]

that dude was beyond salty

 

and let's not throw the mentally ill under the bus for this one.

 

People who were close to the shooter said he was a normal dude and just "snapped"

[Kults]

24 minutes ago, glorydays said:

that dude was beyond salty

 

and let's not throw the mentally ill under the bus for this one.

 

People who were close to the shooter said he was a normal dude and just "snapped"

He wasnt a nobody in that scene either, he was the champ of some division last year. Imagine rage quitting that hard the fuck man

Edited August 27, 2018 by Kults

[glorydays]

Just now, Kults said:

He wasnt a nobody in that scene either, he was the champ of some division last year. Imagine rage quitting that hard the fuck man

exactly....the dude had GOOD standing in that community, which meant he was clear headed and deliberately made those choices that day

[Kults]

1 minute ago, glorydays said:

exactly....the dude had GOOD standing in that community, which meant he was clear headed and deliberately made those choices that day

I wonder what was said to egg him on or push him over the edge( not that it justifies any of it). I know the trash talking can get heated in online games but damn. Witnesses are saying he def targeted specific individuals but shot at pretty much everyone once those two were hit. Oddly enough neither of the fatalities were people he had lost to in the tournament.

[glorydays]

Just now, Kults said:

I wonder what was said to egg him on or push him over the edge( not that it justifies any of it). I know the trash talking can get heated in online games but damn. Witnesses are saying he def targeted specific individuals but shot at pretty much everyone once those two were hit. Oddly enough neither of the fatalities were people he had lost to in the tournament.

yea...he hit the reigning champ and shot the guy who was second in line

 

he probably reeeaaaallly wanted to win that bracket

[Kults]

1 minute ago, glorydays said:

yea...he hit the reigning champ and shot the guy who was second in line

 

he probably reeeaaaallly wanted to win that bracket

I get that these guys' winning or losing affects their fragile egos and sense of self worth but wtf man

[glorydays]

Just now, Kults said:

I get that these guys' winning or losing affects their fragile egos and sense of self worth but wtf man

I feel it bro....its just a game

 

the annoying thing is, they're blaming the video game and not the toxic environment of gaming itself

 

ive been playing videogames online and the shit talk gets real

[Kults]

12 minutes ago, glorydays said:

I feel it bro....its just a game

 

the annoying thing is, they're blaming the video game and not the toxic environment of gaming itself

 

ive been playing videogames online and the shit talk gets real

I’ve hit master prestige in every CoD for the last decade. I’m no stranger to toxic communities, I use to partake in the trash talking when I was younger but now it’s just like wtv 

Edited August 27, 2018 by Kults

[glorydays]

3 minutes ago, Kults said:

I’ve hit master prestige in every CoD for the last decade. I’m no stranger to toxic communities, I use to partake in the trash talking when I was younger but now it’s just like wtv 

exactly, you grew out of it....this dude never really grew up and knew when to take an L

[Kults]

9 minutes ago, glorydays said:

exactly, you grew out of it....this dude never really grew up and knew when to take an L

You’re right. Can’t win 

all and eventually you always meet your match. That’s how you get better though, if you always played less skilled players it would get dull pretty quick. I think he had some other serious underlying issues obviously 

 

correct me if im wrong but it happened in Florida and he was from Maryland. It stands to reason there was some premeditation involved or else why travel with a firearm across state lines 

Edited August 27, 2018 by Kults

[glorydays]

4 minutes ago, Kults said:

You’re right. Can’t win 

all and eventually you always meet your match. That’s how you get better though, if you always played less skilled players it would get dull pretty quick. I think he had some other serious underlying issues obviously 

 

correct me if im wrong but it happened in Florida and he was from Maryland. It stands to reason there was some premeditation involved or else why travel with a firearm across state lines 

I agree...I think he planned this out

 

which further pushes away the fact that he's mentally ill

[+plus+]

My cousin is like this,,, we were playing board games at a family gathering and he was IRATE.

I was thinking, you wouldn't last a fucking minute playing Counter Strike or any othe game w me.

I hope he can learn to control his emotions though because he is in for a hard time. 

[Kults]

28 minutes ago, +plus+ said:

My cousin is like this,,, we were playing board games at a family gathering and he was IRATE.

I was thinking, you wouldn't last a fucking minute playing Counter Strike or any othe game w me.

I hope he can learn to control his emotions though because he is in for a hard time. 

Life lessons right there

[glorydays]

32 minutes ago, +plus+ said:

My cousin is like this,,, we were playing board games at a family gathering and he was IRATE.

I was thinking, you wouldn't last a fucking minute playing Counter Strike or any othe game w me.

I hope he can learn to control his emotions though because he is in for a hard time. 

I feel that the anger is taught or learned behavior, but not from the games itself but from other people who showed the same signs of aggression during game play

[Hua Guofang]

You should see me at rock-scissors-paper.

 

You best have a nuclear triad, is all I'm sayin.

[Mercer]

19 hours ago, glorydays said:

I feel that the anger is taught or learned behavior, but not from the games itself but from other people who showed the same signs of aggression during game play

Somewhat agree, think Anger is a natural behavior from birth brought on by our emotions. Most likely served as a genetic advantage to have this instinct before civilization. You have to learn/be taught to control it.

 

In much the same way you have to learn to shit in a porcelain bowl, and not your pants. If you grow up around a bunch of lawn squatters, you might not learn how to shit properly yourself. Likewise if you're too old for temper tantrums, but your parents accept that behavior because they still have them, you'll likely not learn how to control yourself also.

[glorydays]

4 minutes ago, Mercer said:

Somewhat agree, think Anger is a natural behavior from birth brought on by our emotions. Most likely served as a genetic advantage to have this instinct before civilization. You have to learn/be taught to control it.

 

In much the same way you have to learn to shit in a porcelain bowl, and not your pants. If you grow up around a bunch of lawn squatters, you might not learn how to shit properly yourself. Likewise if you're too old for temper tantrums, but your parents accept that behavior because they still have them, you'll likely not learn how to control yourself also.

once you leave your parents tho...you use the pattern of learning from others to "fit in"...so if you immerse yourself in a sub-culture that interests you, though, wouldn't it make sense to copy those around you?

 

when in rome, do as the romans do

[luhem]

used to be in the top north american clan for this star wars pc game called jedi academy and i've witnessed my fair share of folks rage quitting pretty hard on ventrilo/in-game , especially during important ESL matches .

 

this is just scary & sad , dude kooked it beyond belief .

[Brink]

Its a shame that for many Video games are used as an escape from often hostile social scenes... sad that there seems to be no safe haven anymore

[One Man Banned]

1st thought was wasn't someone posting in the pies thread that they go to these tournaments?  Oontzer as possible victim?  Oontzer as shooter?!  Oontzer as bystander with pies to prove it?!?!

 

Anyhow, wish to understand the logic being used here.  If one plans to kill a bunch of people for seemingly no reason that sounds pretty abnormal to me.  Because they planned to do so, that makes them sane?  Insanity is really a legal issue related to how much can someone be held responsible for their acts but clearly, sane or insane, something was wrong with him.

More will come out on this over time as they gather info but there was a reported history of mental health issues with this person.

[Mercer]

1 hour ago, glorydays said:

once you leave your parents tho...you use the pattern of learning from others to "fit in"...so if you immerse yourself in a sub-culture that interests you, though, wouldn't it make sense to copy those around you?

 

when in rome, do as the romans do

Only if it was to someone's advantage to do so. In the commonly desirable situations & surroundings that most people aspire to be in, it isn't. Even in surroundings most people would find less desirable, where losing control of your emotions is acceptable it's still better to be calculated, and unemotional, even if occasional violence is necessary.

Edited August 28, 2018 by Mercer

[misteraven]

21 hours ago, glorydays said:

I feel that the anger is taught or learned behavior, but not from the games itself but from other people who showed the same signs of aggression during game play

I think anger is in our DNA. Like all other facets of the human condition (including evil), so of us have more of it and others have less of it. In addition to it being inherent in humans, I do believe like most of the other facets of being human, it is either repressed or amplified according to environment and especially personal experience.

 

Example, its somewhat obvious and well documented how susceptible a child is towards wrong when growing up in an impoverished environment. This stokes the flame of the negative attributes of the human condition and very often leads to that individual growing up to be a criminal or have criminal tendencies. Not always, but often. 

 

Now take someone that has the unique DNA that allows a propensity towards true evil. Perhaps that person grows up in some family living in the affluent suburbs of Connecticut and this quality remains dormant. Perhaps that same individual grows up in the hood, mentored by criminals, abused physically and emotionally by family and exposed to all manor of violence and goes beyond just growing into being a criminal, but rather becomes a super predator.

 

I think this is how shit works. 10% of society (in general terms) are scumbags. They're *mostly* kept in check by the fear of consequence as applied by civil society. 10% of that 10% are actually evil and consequence doesn't have much affect on their thought process or urges. Put in the correct environment and / or circumstance and you amplify that potential / propensity exponentially.

 

Opposite also holds true... You think Steve Jobs would have ever become the person he's known as if he grew up in a shitty suburb of Sarasota, Florida for example? I personally believe people like him had the right DNA, which was fully realized in terms of its potential by also having the correct environment and series of experiences to amplify it to its extreme.

 

In regards to the bag of shit we're discussing here... Another example of how evil exists as part of the human condition. You can study it, rationalize it and maybe in some circumstances suspend or suppress it, but you sure as fuck will never legislate it away.

 

Your choice is to depend on a stranger for your personal safety or take that responsibility up for yourself. Nothing available to us helps equalize a situation quite as well as a firearm and proper training.

 

Other option is to play the odds (admittedly its unlikely that evil like this will show up on your own door step (so to speak), but if it does... You really want to sit around cowering in the bathroom and hope that someone shows up in time to help prevent your life from being extinguished?

[Mercer]

13 minutes ago, One Man Banned said:

1st thought was wasn't someone posting in the pies thread that they go to these tournaments?  Oontzer as possible victim?  Oontzer as shooter?!  Oontzer as bystander with pies to prove it?!?!

 

Anyhow, wish to understand the logic being used here.  If one plans to kill a bunch of people for seemingly no reason that sounds pretty abnormal to me.  Because they planned to do so, that makes them sane?  Insanity is really a legal issue related to how much can someone be held responsible for their acts but clearly, sane or insane, something was wrong with him.

More will come out on this over time as they gather info but there was a reported history of mental health issues with this person.

There is no logic. I categorize most of these murder/suicides as childish. Like a kid throwing a tantrum, or holding a grudge that ultimately puts the holder in a worse situation. To me it doesn't necessarily mean someone is sane/insane though. A lot of people consider climbing a huge billboard and writing your name on it insane, and can't comprehend the thought patterns behind it. Those same people probably wouldn't hand down a not guilty due to insanity decision if they were on a jury. 

[glorydays]

27 minutes ago, misteraven said:

I think anger is in our DNA. Like all other facets of the human condition (including evil), so of us have more of it and others have less of it. In addition to it being inherent in humans, I do believe like most of the other facets of being human, it is either repressed or amplified according to environment and especially personal experience.

 

Example, its somewhat obvious and well documented how susceptible a child is towards wrong when growing up in an impoverished environment. This stokes the flame of the negative attributes of the human condition and very often leads to that individual growing up to be a criminal or have criminal tendencies. Not always, but often. 

 

Now take someone that has the unique DNA that allows a propensity towards true evil. Perhaps that person grows up in some family living in the affluent suburbs of Connecticut and this quality remains dormant. Perhaps that same individual grows up in the hood, mentored by criminals, abused physically and emotionally by family and exposed to all manor of violence and goes beyond just growing into being a criminal, but rather becomes a super predator.

 

I think this is how shit works. 10% of society (in general terms) are scumbags. They're *mostly* kept in check by the fear of consequence as applied by civil society. 10% of that 10% are actually evil and consequence doesn't have much affect on their thought process or urges. Put in the correct environment and / or circumstance and you amplify that potential / propensity exponentially.

 

Opposite also holds true... You think Steve Jobs would have ever become the person he's known as if he grew up in a shitty suburb of Sarasota, Florida for example? I personally believe people like him had the right DNA, which was fully realized in terms of its potential by also having the correct environment and series of experiences to amplify it to its extreme.

 

In regards to the bag of shit we're discussing here... Another example of how evil exists as part of the human condition. You can study it, rationalize it and maybe in some circumstances suspend or suppress it, but you sure as fuck will never legislate it away.

 

Your choice is to depend on a stranger for your personal safety or take that responsibility up for yourself. Nothing available to us helps equalize a situation quite as well as a firearm and proper training.

 

Other option is to play the odds (admittedly its unlikely that evil like this will show up on your own door step (so to speak), but if it does... You really want to sit around cowering in the bathroom and hope that someone shows up in time to help prevent your life from being extinguished?

I agree with you...there are factors about this criminal's life that I don't and will never fully understand. the circumstances regarding the decisions he made that day, and I agree with you, will never be fully understood. And I don't think, with my confusion over the subject, that i'll even be able to touch the legality of all of this.

 

I am fully behind self-defense, and the right for others to do so. But in regards to what's happened here, I don't think i'll ever get close to wrapping this around legislation of any kind.

 

If it were up to me, I would've shot him immediately after he drew his weapon.

[Mercer]

6 minutes ago, misteraven said:

I think anger is in our DNA. Like all other facets of the human condition (including evil), so of us have more of it and others have less of it. In addition to it being inherent in humans, I do believe like most of the other facets of being human, it is either repressed or amplified according to environment and especially personal experience.

 

Example, its somewhat obvious and well documented how susceptible a child is towards wrong when growing up in an impoverished environment. This stokes the flame of the negative attributes of the human condition and very often leads to that individual growing up to be a criminal or have criminal tendencies. Not always, but often. 

 

Now take someone that has the unique DNA that allows a propensity towards true evil. Perhaps that person grows up in some family living in the affluent suburbs of Connecticut and this quality remains dormant. Perhaps that same individual grows up in the hood, mentored by criminals, abused physically and emotionally by family and exposed to all manor of violence and goes beyond just growing into being a criminal, but rather becomes a super predator.

 

I think this is how shit works. 10% of society (in general terms) are scumbags. They're *mostly* kept in check by the fear of consequence as applied by civil society. 10% of that 10% are actually evil and consequence doesn't have much affect on their thought process or urges. Put in the correct environment and / or circumstance and you amplify that potential / propensity exponentially.

 

Opposite also holds true... You think Steve Jobs would have ever become the person he's known as if he grew up in a shitty suburb of Sarasota, Florida for example? I personally believe people like him had the right DNA, which was fully realized in terms of its potential by also having the correct environment and series of experiences to amplify it to its extreme.

 

In regards to the bag of shit we're discussing here... Another example of how evil exists as part of the human condition. You can study it, rationalize it and maybe in some circumstances suspend or suppress it, but you sure as fuck will never legislate it away.

 

Your choice is to depend on a stranger for your personal safety or take that responsibility up for yourself. Nothing available to us helps equalize a situation quite as well as a firearm and proper training.

 

Other option is to play the odds (admittedly its unlikely that evil like this will show up on your own door step (so to speak), but if it does... You really want to sit around cowering in the bathroom and hope that someone shows up in time to help prevent your life from being extinguished?

This used to be my thoughts on poverty & crime before I started reading Sowell's books. I now attribute both high rates of poverty, and the rates of crime that seem to go hand in hand in some communities, as the consequences of culture. There are poor groups of people with low rates of crime, likewise there are more affluent groups, with higher rates of crime than other affluent groups. To me, culture is the main factor holding groups of people in a state of poverty, and also leading to increased rates of crime. Crime & Poverty aren't in a cause & effect relationship, as much as they're both symptoms of culture.

 

There are many examples of extremely poor groups that have made progress in their financial, and social standings. For evidence of this, just look at any group with success in this area. Every group today considered culturally, or financially superior has at one point in the past has been part of a poor, and barbaric culture.

 

To better illustrate this point there are recent, well documented examples of backwards peoples, that have within a generation or two completely transformed their standings. The Scottish during the early 19th century, and the Japanese during the early 20th stand out as amplified examples of rapid improvement. In both cases, they were more illiterate, & impoverished than many of todays so called "disadvantaged" people, and within a generation or two completely transformed.

 

The people studying their transformation attribute zero stock in some sort of dormant genetic superiority, or external influences like a sudden abundance of natural resources. Most of them tend to focus on changes in their internal culture, as the precursor to success.

[GnomeToys]

On 8/27/2018 at 2:25 PM, glorydays said:

that dude was beyond salty

 

and let's not throw the mentally ill under the bus for this one.

 

People who were close to the shooter said he was a normal dude and just "snapped"

Most of my friends thought I was just "eccentric" before I had a psychotic break and went into 2.5 years of terrifying hallucinations (subjectively the first two weeks were upwards of several thousand years, but I'm going based on the societal norm of time here) so I'd take that part with a grain of salt.  That said, I wouldn't blame mental illness on this.   This guy doesn't sound psychotic from the described events.  If he'd gone in and started yelling at all of the fucking neon pink rabbits to stop molesting his crisper drawer I'd buy that as a reason.    There's a certain level of meditation on something like this that doesn't mesh as being compatible with the level of mental illness that would be required to not have control over it. 

 

On 8/28/2018 at 2:29 PM, Mercer said:

To me it doesn't necessarily mean someone is sane/insane though. A lot of people consider climbing a huge billboard and writing your name on it insane, and can't comprehend the thought patterns behind it. Those same people probably wouldn't hand down a not guilty due to insanity decision if they were on a jury. 

 

Definitely on the graffiti.  Hell, 90% of my hobbies are shit most people who don't know me would consider completely batshit insane at first glance but they're really just very strange / fringe hobbies. 

 

As far as the insanity / not guilty thing, it can't be used very often.  From what I can find personality disorders aren't usually accepted as a defense, and almost certainly wouldn't apply in this case since most of the likely candidates for things this guy might have had fall under the excluded disorders:

http://www.psi.uba.ar/academica/carrerasdegrado/psicologia/sitios_catedras/practicas_profesionales/820_clinica_tr_personalidad_psicosis/material/dsm.pdf

 

Also, from wikipedia:
 

Quote

Most courts accept a major mental illness such as psychosis but will not accept the diagnosis of a personality disorder for the purposes of an insanity defense. The second question is whether the mental illness interfered with the defendant's ability to distinguish right from wrong. That is, did the defendant know that the alleged behavior was against the law at the time the offense was committed.

Additionally, some jurisdictions add the question of whether or not the defendant was in control of their behavior at the time of the offense. For example, if the defendant was compelled by some aspect of their mental illness to commit the illegal act, the defendant could be evaluated as not in control of their behavior at the time of the offense.

The forensic mental health specialists submit their evaluations to the court. Since the question of sanity or insanity is a legal question and not a medical one, the judge and or jury will make the final decision regarding the defendant's status regarding an insanity defense.^[12][13]

In most jurisdictions within the United States, if the insanity plea is accepted, the defendant is committed to a psychiatric institution for at least 60 days for further evaluation, and then reevaluated at least yearly after that.

That last part about the psych institute for at least 60 days with "at least yearly" evaluations is the reason I wouldn't do the insanity thing, aside from it hardly ever applying in the first place.   It means a potentially lifetime stay in a mental facility, instead of a jail stay which they at least have some hope in being released from  and where they may get better treatment.    Personally I'd go the exact opposite route and confess to some random unsolved treasonous act / unsolved mass murder and attempt to get execution rather than either.  A smooth OD on pentobarbital sounds very attractive compared to being force-fed drugs that slowly cause parkinson's disease over a period of many years. I wouldn't be in that situation to begin with though, so it's kind of moot.

 

Keep in mind that the first listed criteria in the DSM-5 is:

Quote

An enduring pattern of inner experience and behavior the deviates markedly from the expectations of the individual's culture.

This line is effectively there because otherwise it's impossible to lay out guidelines for diagnosis from a scientific standpoint without making every religious person insane by definition otherwise.  

 

 

[GnomeToys]

This:

 

https://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/2018/09/madden-nfl-19-shooting-victim-sues-ea-claiming-negligence/

 

Quote

A survivor of the recent shooting at a Madden NFL 19 tournament in Jacksonville, Florida, has filed a lawsuit against Electronic Arts, alleging that the company was negligent when it failed to provide adequate security at the venue on August 26.

So, umm...  REALLY?

 

Quote

Lawyers representing Mitich also argued that EA did not perform adequate due diligence to determine that the host of the venue, Chicago Pizza, had the proper permits to hold such an event. Worse still, EA did not have "adequate security measures," including metal detectors, wands, or backpack inspections.

Does anyone here have any kind of clue exactly what kind of permit there is to have people eating pizza and playing videogames in a pizza place ?    I mean the shit that happened was awful, but the company / bar weren't exactly holding an MMA tournament.