Jump to content
Search In
  • More options...
Find results that contain...
Find results in...
Fist 666

Man. Fuck Religion.

Recommended Posts

OMB: 1. Can I count the Abrahamic Religions as one? 2. Yes. 3. Yes. Lemmy's response was everything it could have been. "Now he's died and it really pisses me off that they take somebody like him and leave George Bush alive."

 

 

Refugees aren't too blame.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Ozzy:

Just heard about Phil "Philthy Animal" Taylor's passing. It's a terrible terrible loss. He was a great friend - great drummer - a great guy and he will be dearly missed. Today is a very sad day for me. Rest in peace - and he still owes me 500 bucks from that time in Vegas.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I try not to pay attention to initial stories that may not have all the facts or the correct facts, so piecing things together now. Horrible thing to have happen. This isn't the fault of religion though as much as it's the fault of extremist religion, or maybe just extremism with religion being used as the justification. It makes for interesting thought though. One, this becomes rooted in the past World Wars and Europe and America's greed for oil. Two, Islamic extremists have now fucked with Russia, France, and the U.S. How's it going to play out when you have common enemies but are enemies amongst yourselves (at least Russia and the U.S.). Possible third area of interest, France is vowing what is thought to be military action, but what has France's military done anytime recently? Bunch of cheese eating surrender monkeys.

STN173502_385403k.jpg.8482709110dbfd1142ea36bf7c332e9a.jpg

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The simple math is, would this have happened if there was no such thing as Islam?

 

I watch the news so I know it's real.

 

Etc.

 

Oh Lord.

 

As for France and Syria - they went in hard in the early part of last century. And as far as I can tell from these ISIL/ISIS/Daesh whatever FauxNews is calling them this week - they hold grudges.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

RIP Nielsen. That dude was amazing.

 

Can't have religious extremism without religion.

I know its a fairly reductive conclusion, but I don't think it is invalid.

 

This next week will be interesting/terrifying to watch to see the world's response. I think our failures in Iraq and Afghanistan have demonstrated that war won't solve this problem, but I am certain we will see an escalation in NATO led violence.

 

@Donald Chump : what are you thinking?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I wonder what it would take for a mass conversion to atheism, which would be a big step in the right direction for all kinds of reasons.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
@Donald Chump : what are you thinking?

I'm thinking escalation will be the response from all sides.

 

ISIS is an entity that cannot tolerate those unlike itself. It is looking to shift the reality in the Mid East to a place that will actually increase instability and suffering. There is no diplomatic settlement with an organisation like that, they have to be defeated. The challenge is in how it is defeated. But that is not the end play either, defeating the ideology is the overall challenge. I'm not sure I've heard a comprehensive, cohesive and credible explanation as to why this ideology has the seductive power that it does. OF course it will be a multitude of reasons instead of a single narrative that suits all parts of the world.

 

History is to blame, religion - or how it is used by some to their own benefit - is to blame, social pressures and ignorance is to blame, etc. etc. We won't see the end of this in our time.

 

Think of this, we are now living with TWO jihadist organisations that have global reach.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Note the immediate difference to the 2004 Madrid train bombings. Spain pulled out of the coalition in Iraq, France increased combat operations in Syria.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

it's pretty fucked that people are scapegoating refugees when the ringleaders are belgian nationals.

so far it looks like ONE of these asswipes came in by posing as a refugee.

 

Donald Chump I was just saying the other day how this shit almost never makes a nation 'ratchet down'

it's ratchet up up up, kill kill kill. the incident in Atocha/Spain's response might be the rare exception.

i'm still waiting for Russia to nuke Syria over their plane.

 

but if i had some degree of sympathy for disenfranchised and persecuted people living in the middle east who got fucked over by world powers,

that sympathy is gone.

the brutality of this slaughter is fucking insane and won't accomplish any meaningful goals

though i have to remind myself: ISIS ain't al qaeda. in fact they make AQ look like a band of merry men

no question, these ISIS/ISIL fools want to bring about another massive war/armageddon and destruction is their only objective

they can basically eat a bag of each other's dicks.

 

the worst part of all of this, imo, is that you can't go to war with an idea.. and that idea is out there, it's gained traction, and it isn't going away

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

we have different political ideology, but the U.S., Russia, France, Iran, Kurds, Syrian govt. all want ISIS eradicated....i feel like if we formed a coalition including those countries (and others), it could happen, but differing political ideology and years of non-trust keep us from doing this.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
This isn't the fault of religion though as much as it's the fault of extremist religion, or maybe just extremism with religion being used as the justification. [ATTACH=full]193527[/ATTACH]

 

an important distinction, one that's more of a scale than a dichotomy, even though i know americans love things in plain black-and-white. there is a bigger resentment towards the west that would likely be there with or without hard-line religion - in cultural differences, alone. (as i see it our own intervention in the middle east is about more than spreading Freedomin payloads of thousands of pounds at once - we fail to intervene so definitively in other parts of the world where similar, abject suffering occurs, and where armed intervention would be just as sticky - see darfur, for example.)

 

I'm thinking escalation will be the response from all sides.

 

ISIS is an entity that cannot tolerate those unlike itself. It is looking to shift the reality in the Mid East to a place that will actually increase instability and suffering. There is no diplomatic settlement with an organisation like that, they have to be defeated. The challenge is in how it is defeated. But that is not the end play either, defeating the ideology is the overall challenge. I'm not sure I've heard a comprehensive, cohesive and credible explanation as to why this ideology has the seductive power that it does. OF course it will be a multitude of reasons instead of a single narrative that suits all parts of the world.

 

History is to blame, religion - or how it is used by some to their own benefit - is to blame, social pressures and ignorance is to blame, etc. etc. We won't see the end of this in our time.

 

also a good post. isis benefits from prolonged conflict and suffering, especially when it comes from the west. it has little-nothing to negotiate with other than oil - and the united states has been very busy learning to drill that oil itself, so much so that we are now pushing to reopen exports (!). opec is not a fan of that, and that's why gasoline is $2.11 in my neck of the woods. but i digress.

 

war on the rocks is a really good read for foreign policy-related things. they wrote this last year on countering isis with asymmetric warfare. i know we have current or former servicemembers on here; i'd love your take(s) on this.

 

isis gains reassurement (of the "purity" of their mission) every time one of their own dies in combat, so that really shouldn't be considered the ultimate goal. (i know, i know, anathema. wait.) we don't know how to fight islamic extremism because we keep trying to do it with weapons but that really doesn't do much to disrupt a network with a gossamer-thin physical footprint.

 

i don't know if the united states will ever learn - who else loved that we have another bush calling for another war in the middle east? - but if we're to prevent more of these attacks, it's time to try.

 

these are motivated organizations that know better than to cluster in one destructible place. they recruit and rehearse online. but key to their organizations - what inspires terror around the globe, what keeps people in line in controlled territory - is the (real or perceived) ideological purity of the organization. sharia, etc.

 

once the fighters start to doubt their leadership, or start to perceive isis as the group of armed humans it is - not the group of divinely inspired demigods they leave their home countries to train with - things will change. that saps their motivation more than a drone strike will. and there's no chance the target we hit ends up being, you know, a wedding party.

 

war on the rocks put it better than i did there.

 

this isn't the kind of fight that we win with a big standing army, or faster planes, or heavier bombs, or an f35. it's akin to a cold war, a victory we starve out of isis and their subjects. (some would also say help them rebel - i would not, we just did that and it was an abject failure that led to isis getting more weapons and equipment.) every time we re-stage an armed conflict with these people, we create a potentially bigger problem than we solve; we thread barbed wire down our throat, setting ourselves up for a painful removal that might leave lasting damage. it seems to stun some people, but we can't fight this war with grunts or sheer numbers, we fight it with intelligence. infiltration. confusion. fewer, much smarter people.

 

even in an ideal, fictional scenario - in which we completely dispose of extremist rule via conventional warfare - we leave a power vacuum when we leave. THIS HAPPENS EVERY FUCKING TIME. either there was no local leadership in the first place, or they were killed (with isis, it's the latter).

 

we can't force democracy on people who don't want it, but i think we can encourage it through our own wealth and benevolence. people want to get fed and have access to clean water. we can reward governments who play along with us, so long as we don't A) waste all the money or B) negate goodwill by maiming and killing (and then trying to mop up the mess with condolence payments).

 

i don't think we (the united states, mostly) are smart or forward-thinking enough to pull any of this off. combined with how good war is for certain manufacturers who have hefty lobbying budgets, i see us repeating history under a republican president who sweeps into office on a tide of fear. but at least we'll have cool laser drones to re-gift to american police departments in 5 years.

 

we have different political ideology, but the U.S., Russia, France, Iran, Kurds, Syrian govt. all want ISIS eradicated....i feel like if we formed a coalition including those countries (and others), it could happen, but differing political ideology and years of non-trust keep us from doing this.

 

i don't see the united states wanting to yield enough control over the global anti-terrorism fight to make this happen.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

^pastafarians.....yeah i saw that.

 

there are a lot of people out here with the flying spaghetti monster emblems on the back of their cars.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

"We are not anti-religion," Henderson said. "We are anti-crazy nonsense done in the name of religion. There is a big difference. Our ideal is to scrutinize ideas and actions but ignore general labels."

I mean, sounds like what we're discussing here, but at the same time seems hypocritical- making yourself look like a douchebag to draw attention to your cause. And, she is a Masshole (believe that term was actually added to the dictionary this year!).

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
making yourself look like a douchebag to draw attention to your cause.

 

thats the best way to do it!

 

people have been doing it for years lol

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Register for a 12ozProphet forum account or sign in to comment

You need to be a forum member in order to comment. Forum accounts are separate from shop accounts.

Create an account

Register to become a 12ozProphet forum member.

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now

×