12oz's current state makes me fap/complain

[bobbie blowjob]

someone in dire need of a new personality?

[BullshitTantrum]

12 oz. in the trash can. casek does the dishes

[Realism]

12 oz. in the trash can. casek does the dishes

 

CAN'T NOBODY NOBODY FUCK WITH MY KITCHEN

[Inappropriate_Responder]

Re: 12oz's current state makes me sad/pissed

 

casek [/size]and my idea. All you do is posts nonsense, no point.[/b]

 

nonsense thread saved my life

 

 

at least the nonsense thread still goes pretty hard

 

best thread on 12oz

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

in my opinion... the nonsense/orly thread ruined this website.

 

before those two threads came about..12oz was full of original content that couldnt be found anywhere else.

 

once those threads came about...this site turned into a bunch of recycled content from other troll forums. Nothing original so no reason to ever sign in.

 

its sad to see that the nonsense thread is the only thread thats truly active still.

 

 

 

ITS ALL CASEKS FAULT!

[casekslays]

Re: 12oz's current state makes me sad/pissed

 

ITS ALL CASEKS FAULT!

 

 

Goddamn right it is.

[shai]

So I take it you aren't happy to be back?

 

It's all a matter of perspective...either the forum is broken, or it's a challenge. Since I don't think that was intentional, I'll have to side with "broken."

 

I blame the economy. Raven probably has to work six jobs to keep this place afloat, which makes it impossible for him to participate and see first hand how badly things have deteriorated.

[Deine Mudder]

six jobs to keep this place afloat

 

This is a forum with over 17k registered users and a lot of ads.

 

 

 

I don't know the people who run this thing, and do not want to offend anyone,

but really, it's embarassing what this place has become.

I mean how can it be that people aren't even able to log in regularly?

This is going on for months, for fucks sake!

I have never seen a thread made by some mods, explaining or clarifying all those hickups.

[bobbie blowjob]

it's 2012 and this is the first weed out of the chosen few.

only DAO will remain on this world to breakdance with the tumbleweeds

[casekslays]

So I take it you aren't happy to be back?

 

It's all a matter of perspective...either the forum is broken, or it's a challenge. Since I don't think that was intentional, I'll have to side with "broken."

 

I blame the economy. Raven probably has to work six jobs to keep this place afloat, which makes it impossible for him to participate and see first hand how badly things have deteriorated.

 

 

You know as well as I do that work was put in to get ad dollars for the sole purpose of expanding and making better. I would be understanding of a few months, but more than a year has gone by and now it seems like "why is this even here?". I know Raven did care at one time, had big dreams and bigger hopes for this place, as did all of us. Now it just seems like the baby died and all that's left is a broken forum.

 

 

This is a forum with over 17k registered users and a lot of ads.

 

 

 

I don't know the people who run this thing, and do not want to offend anyone,

but really, it's embarassing what this place has become.

I mean how can it be that people aren't even able to log in regularly?

This is going on for months, for fucks sake!

I have never seen a thread made by some mods, explaining or clarifying all those hickups.

 

In their defense, there is a sticky from Raven talking about how they hired a new guy

to fix/implement things, but there was a guy named Wanga who fixed it. I'm just pissed because they let more than half the members go because the site (forum side) is broken

and has been broken for a long ass time. I have an account that I've been trying to log in with for over a year.

[john brown]

[CILONE/SK]

So I take it you aren't happy to be black?

 

:confused:

[Realism]

Well I definitely wouldn't be

[shai]

You know as well as I do that work was put in to get ad dollars for the sole purpose of expanding and making better. I would be understanding of a few months, but more than a year has gone by and now it seems like "why is this even here?". I know Raven did care at one time, had big dreams and bigger hopes for this place, as did all of us. Now it just seems like the baby died and all that's left is a broken forum.

 

My guess is that the ads were successful, and that's why there's so many of them now. Not only that, I don't recall there being any guarantee that the ad revenue that 12 oz generated would be earmarked strictly for developing 12 oz...sure, that was implied, but if ComplexMedia has a controlling interest (?) they could just say "well, we need this money for other things" and 12 oz gets the hind tit.

 

The reason it's still here is because even if your car is totally fucked up, it's still useful as long as it gets you to and from work...and in the same way, as long as people continue to visit the forum and generate traffic, whose interests would it serve to turn off a money maker?

 

I don't know what I feel...I wasn't promised anything, and when it comes down to it 12 oz is not a necessity in my life nor do I have any real stake in it. I'm not happy about how things are going and haven't been for some time...I've repeatedly said so and offered my input as to what would improve the situation, and not much has been done with that input. So I feel like I did what I could, and it's out of my hands.

[theprotester]

Some people just love to have a bitch and a moan.

[shai]

Some people just love to have a bitch and a moan.

 

That's easy to say that if you don't know the whole story, so I'll fill in some of the blanks. I'll try to be as informative as I can without revealing certain details I was asked to keep private.

 

This version of the forum is around seven years old. It's survived one serious crash, and was migrated to new hardware after that. The software the forum runs on was released November 22, 2006. There are tons of existing and effective exploits that can run on this platform, hence the spam problem and why Google lists 12 oz as a compromised site...because for all intents and purposes, it is a compromised site. That doesn't mean it's dangerous to use, but I wouldn't recommend clicking on any of the spam links.

 

We (me, casek, and a few others) were asked to help with the transition to a new site in 2009. So far, everything has been rolled out except for the forum....the reason for this being that Raven wants to import certain data sets from here to the new forum. This seems to be the sticking point...meanwhile, things keep breaking on this forum (notably the login)...so instead of devoting 100% of their attention to migrating the database, they have to patch things, which occasionally breaks other things, then those things need to be fixed, etc.

 

At this point I'm all for archiving this forum, bringing the new one online, and sending an email out to all of the users saying "The old board was so fucked up that we decided to freeze it and roll out the new one as a clean slate....so we encourage you to register on the new forum, and if you had a premium account let us know and we'll upgrade you as soon as we confirm that." I also feel that the data migration wasn't a bad idea, but it's taking way too long and has turned out to be an enormous headache.

 

Until then, we're stuck with this version of the forum- which wouldn't be all that bad if it weren't so busted, but it is...and some of the people who were asked to assist with the transition feel a little let down with the way things have played out over the past couple of years. It's gotten to the point where it's more about accountability and demonstrating that 12 oz actually gives a shit about its users, but when we ask what's going on it sometimes takes months to get an answer.

 

So when some of us bitch, it's not because we don't have anything better to do....we do. It's that we want to what we were asked to do, not damage control.

[casekslays]

My guess is that the ads were successful, and that's why there's so many of them now. Not only that, I don't recall there being any guarantee that the ad revenue that 12 oz generated would be earmarked strictly for developing 12 oz...sure, that was implied, but if ComplexMedia has a controlling interest (?) they could just say "well, we need this money for other things" and 12 oz gets the hind tit.

 

The reason it's still here is because even if your car is totally fucked up, it's still useful as long as it gets you to and from work...and in the same way, as long as people continue to visit the forum and generate traffic, whose interests would it serve to turn off a money maker?

 

I don't know what I feel...I wasn't promised anything, and when it comes down to it 12 oz is not a necessity in my life nor do I have any real stake in it. I'm not happy about how things are going and haven't been for some time...I've repeatedly said so and offered my input as to what would improve the situation, and not much has been done with that input. So I feel like I did what I could, and it's out of my hands.

 

That's easy to say that if you don't know the whole story, so I'll fill in some of the blanks. I'll try to be as informative as I can without revealing certain details I was asked to keep private.

 

This version of the forum is around seven years old. It's survived one serious crash, and was migrated to new hardware after that. The software the forum runs on was released November 22, 2006. There are tons of existing and effective exploits that can run on this platform, hence the spam problem and why Google lists 12 oz as a compromised site...because for all intents and purposes, it is a compromised site. That doesn't mean it's dangerous to use, but I wouldn't recommend clicking on any of the spam links.

 

We (me, casek, and a few others) were asked to help with the transition to a new site in 2009. So far, everything has been rolled out except for the forum....the reason for this being that Raven wants to import certain data sets from here to the new forum. This seems to be the sticking point...meanwhile, things keep breaking on this forum (notably the login)...so instead of devoting 100% of their attention to migrating the database, they have to patch things, which occasionally breaks other things, then those things need to be fixed, etc.

 

At this point I'm all for archiving this forum, bringing the new one online, and sending an email out to all of the users saying "The old board was so fucked up that we decided to freeze it and roll out the new one as a clean slate....so we encourage you to register on the new forum, and if you had a premium account let us know and we'll upgrade you as soon as we confirm that." I also feel that the data migration wasn't a bad idea, but it's taking way too long and has turned out to be an enormous headache.

 

Until then, we're stuck with this version of the forum- which wouldn't be all that bad if it weren't so busted, but it is...and some of the people who were asked to assist with the transition feel a little let down with the way things have played out over the past couple of years. It's gotten to the point where it's more about accountability and demonstrating that 12 oz actually gives a shit about its users, but when we ask what's going on it sometimes takes months to get an answer.

 

So when some of us bitch, it's not because we don't have anything better to do....we do. It's that we want to what we were asked to do, not damage control.

 

 

This sums it up nicely, Shai. I feel more let down than anything. I love this place and am grateful to Raven and crew for all that they have done, all the great people I've met due to 12oz, and the learning experiences.

 

To come back after giving up on being able to log in after over a year and see the site even more busted than when I left is just sad. It's like they gave up on something that could have been so much more. Raven's plans for this place had me excited and I was genuinely happy to play a small role in making that happen for a site that I love.

 

I completely agree about archiving this forum and rolling out the new and improved forum. That would have been a better choice even though I understand them wanting to keep this one and try to fix shit...so much history here.

[shai]

That would have been a better choice even though I understand them wanting to keep this one and try to fix shit...so much history here.

 

Except that was never the plan. As I understand it, the plan all along was to archive this forum as a static document then migrate some/all of the user info to the new board. It sounds like a great idea, but I don't envision how it would work long term seeing as how links break, sites go defunct, get updated, absorbed into other sites, etc. So it's not a bad idea if you're just trying to preserve the text, but over time it's going to degrade as the web evolves.

 

I said earlier that I don't really have a stake in this, but I'm not entirely sure that's true. I mean, I obviously have no say in what happens here in an administrative capacity, but in a sense the content that I contributed and the time I've spent here can be viewed as a form of equity...I'm not trying to cash in on that, I never could. I do wish that what I've brought to the table (along with everyone else) could be seen as more than idle chit chat, but that's really in the eye of the beholder.

 

What really frustrates me is being 99% convinced that the cost of one print run of Complex Magazine would easily cover the costs that it would take to get 12 oz updated and running the way it should be. As a dedicated anti-capitalist, it really burns me to realize that the goal of CMN has nothing to do with supporting culture- the name of the game is using subcultures to support marketing ventures that have everything to do with getting paid and very little to do with furthering graffiti as a cultural form.

 

And I think a lot of you should be angry about that too...another way of looking at the issue is that this company indirectly makes money off your hard work and talent every time someone links a photo of something that you painted or tagged on to Brickslayers. How does that feel? Some of you probably don't care, and in a way I don't blame you since any press is good press...but think about what's really going on here the next time you can't log in. Then head over to the front page, and tell me how many thinly veiled ads you see....get my drift?

 

For the record, I don't view Raven and the rest of the crew as culture vultures but once you see things for what they really are it's kind of hard to ignore.

[theprotester]

I first joined in 2001.

 

I've lost thousands over forum fuck ups, it sounds sad for someone who can barely touch type.

 

Cyclical.

 

Shai, if people are upset about their work being put on the internet and seen by people all over the world? I don't know? Why be upset? I'm about to dump a load of flicks in Brickslayers, and I give not one fuck where on the interwebs they end up.

 

You clearly have put in hard work, I know what it's like. I have literally been involved in C&D's over forum jacks.

 

Everyone saying this place has gone to shit is not helping.

 

I have NO IDEA what a COMPLEX magazine is.... AT ALL? I thought it was just a banner ad.

[shai]

I think that it's been well established that we see the world differently...I'm not mad about that so much as being part of something that was one thing at one point that evolved into something completely different over time with very little disclosure. That has nothing to do with you personally, if you're okay with that then I think the forum is big enough to accommodate differing opinions. I personally don't like it, I think graffiti is bigger than marketing trends but I might be in the minority as far as that goes.

 

However, I type pretty fast despite never actually learning how to type so there.

 

You can Google Complex magazine...the gist of it is that it's Marc Ecko's venture which has absorbed several sites including 12 oz. Feel free to take that as you will.

[Back In 88]

Is this crossfire? This forum has helped me procrastinate away almost a whole exam period.

No complaints here...

[theprotester]

I think we have well and truly established you and I live a different life, Shai. But we also respect each others. At the end of the day, where there's a dollar to be made, a soul will be sold. When I said I 'lost thousands' I didn't mean 'props' I mean money. Because people move, they change, they shift.

 

I will respectfully decline the offer of Googlin' complex magazine.

[casekslays]

I think that it's been well established that we see the world differently...I'm not mad about that so much as being part of something that was one thing at one point that evolved into something completely different over time with very little disclosure. That has nothing to do with you personally, if you're okay with that then I think the forum is big enough to accommodate differing opinions. I personally don't like it, I think graffiti is bigger than marketing trends but I might be in the minority as far as that goes.

 

However, I type pretty fast despite never actually learning how to type so there.

 

You can Google Complex magazine...the gist of it is that it's Marc Ecko's venture which has absorbed several sites including 12 oz. Feel free to take that as you will.

 

I think we have well and truly established you and I live a different life, Shai. But we also respect each others. At the end of the day, where there's a dollar to be made, a soul will be sold. When I said I 'lost thousands' I didn't mean 'props' I mean money. Because people move, they change, they shift.

 

I will respectfully decline the offer of Googlin' complex magazine.

 

 

Now kiss!

[Realism]

KITH

[casekslays]

Except that was never the plan. As I understand it, the plan all along was to archive this forum as a static document then migrate some/all of the user info to the new board. It sounds like a great idea, but I don't envision how it would work long term seeing as how links break, sites go defunct, get updated, absorbed into other sites, etc. So it's not a bad idea if you're just trying to preserve the text, but over time it's going to degrade as the web evolves.

 

I said earlier that I don't really have a stake in this, but I'm not entirely sure that's true. I mean, I obviously have no say in what happens here in an administrative capacity, but in a sense the content that I contributed and the time I've spent here can be viewed as a form of equity...I'm not trying to cash in on that, I never could. I do wish that what I've brought to the table (along with everyone else) could be seen as more than idle chit chat, but that's really in the eye of the beholder.

 

What really frustrates me is being 99% convinced that the cost of one print run of Complex Magazine would easily cover the costs that it would take to get 12 oz updated and running the way it should be. As a dedicated anti-capitalist, it really burns me to realize that the goal of CMN has nothing to do with supporting culture- the name of the game is using subcultures to support marketing ventures that have everything to do with getting paid and very little to do with furthering graffiti as a cultural form.

 

And I think a lot of you should be angry about that too...another way of looking at the issue is that this company indirectly makes money off your hard work and talent every time someone links a photo of something that you painted or tagged on to Brickslayers. How does that feel? Some of you probably don't care, and in a way I don't blame you since any press is good press...but think about what's really going on here the next time you can't log in. Then head over to the front page, and tell me how many thinly veiled ads you see....get my drift?

 

For the record, I don't view Raven and the rest of the crew as culture vultures but once you see things for what they really are it's kind of hard to ignore.

 

 

I thought the original plan was to migrate this forum into a new forum? It's been too long since I've been "in the loop" in that other place.

 

I think Mark Ecko probably has the funds to make improvements to this forum in his front pocket.

[anybody_wanna_chestnut?]

Is this crossfire? This forum has helped me procrastinate away almost a whole exam period.

No complaints here...

 

There's schools in Australia? No way...

[MedicineCabinet]

i like 12oz but hate the notion of giving marc ecko money per click.. quite a predicament indeed

[shai]

Turns out that Marc Ecko is not the scapegoat/sugar daddy we're looking for....

 

http://paidcontent.org/2009/12/04/419-marc-eckos-complex-media-adds-12-8-million-in-funding/

 

"Updated: Complex Media, the on- and offline media company founded by entrepreneur and artist Marc Ecko, has raised $12.8 million in funding, per an SEC filing. The new money comes from Accel Partners and Austin Ventures, and serves as Complex Media’s first round of funding as a standalone company. It is being spun-off from parent company Marc Ecko Enterprises — which has been struggling with debt.

 

"Complex Media will be headed up by CEO Rich Antoniello and GM Brian Kelley; Marc Ecko will remain as an owner and board member. The company includes the Complex Media Network, a group of over two dozen sites that cater to young men’s interests, as well as Complex magazine.

 

"The spin-off comes on the heels of a much larger cash injection for Marc Ecko Enterprises, which encompasses multiple clothing lines, a video game company and an in-store online video network: apparel holding company Iconix Brand Group took a majority stake for $108 million, in late October (via Crain’s)."

 

Huh! I decided to look into Accel Partners and Austin Ventures and it looks like they're venture capital firms for various web and tech companies...check out their client lists, it's pretty impressive-

 

http://www.accel.com/global/companies/industry/all

 

http://www.austinventures.com/portfolio/portfolio.asp?mode=1

 

Some of you may have noticed that Complex Media is listed in Austin's portfolio as a "vertical ad network." Huh....what's that? Let's ask Wikipedia-

 

"Vertical Networks: They represent the publications in their portfolio, with full transparency for the advertiser about where their ads will run.[2] They typically promote high quality traffic at market prices and are heavily used by brand marketers. The economic model is generally revenue share. Vertical Networks offer ROS (Run-Of-Site) advertising across specific Channels (example: Auto or Travel) or they offer site-wide advertising options, in which case they operate in a similar fashion to Publisher Representation firms."

 

Seems to me that the raison d'etre of 12 oz seems to have changed somewhat over the past few years, at least from a managerial point of view.

[CILONE/SK]

^Can you break that down into caveman for us?

[shai]

12 oz was started by graffiti writers, bought by a clothing designer, then sold to a pair of venture capital firms that want to use the site to sell stuff.

[HUSK]

HELL NO WE WON'T GOT!