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McLovin

Obama's health care mandate

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wow...penn does the same type of shit on his bullshit show...how can he even talk shit?!

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i know what you mean but the point still stands..

 

Also- i agree with your philosophy on health insurance. It really has turned into a circus. Let hospitals be hospitals and doctors be doctors. fuck all the paper work and all the nonsense that goes with it. I wish we can go back to bartering .

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So everyone has to legally have car insurance, but that is constitutional because they are all state laws, and the fed govt give them tax credits for having said laws. Wouldn't it work out if they just wrote a similar law for health care? Im not being a smart ass i support the law but I feel like this would take the whole unconstitutional argument right off the table.

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The same people that hide behind the Constitution on issues like this are more than willing to overlook it when it comes to other civil rights issues, so I see that argument as a red herring at best.

 

We're so behind the curve on this issue it's not even funny...at this point I don't know if the US will ever have a sensible health care system.

 

As it stands the one we have now is not about health or care, it's about money. When the US economy was driven by manufacturing, it was a no-brainer- make medical treatment affordable so the workforce can be productive.

 

Now, it's all about passing the buck. If you can't do the job for minimum wage and are prone to ill health, employers aren't going to even talk to you...and if you can't get work, you probably can't get health care. Hell, even if you have work, that's no guarantee that you will get health care...and if you do it's probably going to be some bottom-feeder group coverage that doesn't really do much and still expects a $50 co-pay every time you try to use it.

 

I don't like the idea of the government being involved in health care, especially considering the fact that they've shirked every single opportunity to do so and have next to no experience in the field. Then again, I don't think the alternative is working, either.

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So everyone has to legally have car insurance, but that is constitutional because they are all state laws, and the fed govt give them tax credits for having said laws. Wouldn't it work out if they just wrote a similar law for health care? Im not being a smart ass i support the law but I feel like this would take the whole unconstitutional argument right off the table.

 

 

 

i hate this comparison. you're talking about driving a car, which you also need a driver's license for. when you are applying for a license, it's basically like you're agreeing to the other laws involved with driving/car registration/insurance etc, and if not you get penalized. the new healthcare bill doesn't really give people the choice. you either have it, or you don't and get penalized.

 

 

there are plenty of alternatives to driving a car if you don't want or can't get a license. how many alternatives are there to avoiding healthcare under the new bill if you don't want it?

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You cant opt out of social security, which is a pay-into-program. Is that unconstitutional? Same with taxes for public school, public fire departments, public roads, public transportation... You pay into a fuck ton that you necessarily use but thats all constitutional because we believe in commonwealth. All those asshats on fica or some other subsidized student program get that because someone is not only paying full price for their own classes, but is also paying taxes for everyone else's financial aid. In this case if you prefer private medical insurance you can opt out of the public option.

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You cant opt out of social security, which is a pay-into-program. Is that unconstitutional? Same with taxes for public school, public fire departments, public roads, public transportation... You pay into a fuck ton that you necessarily use but thats all constitutional because we believe in commonwealth. All those asshats on fica or some other subsidized student program get that because someone is not only paying full price for their own classes, but is also paying taxes for everyone else's financial aid. In this case if you prefer private medical insurance you can opt out of the public option.

 

 

yeah although certain religious groups like the Amish or Mennonites can opt out of social security and have for a while now, but many others believe it's unconstitutional including some of the authors of it in the first place haha. i just don't like the comparison of car insurance to health care.

 

 

i don't really like replying much in this thread because i feel like i've only scratched the surface of knowing about the new healthcare bill not to mention having much of an opinion on it, but when you say "if you prefer private medical insurance you can opt out of the public option" what exactly do you mean? i thought it would be a mandatory thing you had to buy into.

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In other words, if you don't like obamacare, you can buy healthcare from a regular private company. You just have to have health insurance. A lot of people receive healthcare through work and don't need to buy health insurance.

 

The reality is that health insurance through work is only good because there are laws that give "taxbreaks" to anyone with health insurance through work. And by "tax breaks" I mean they tax everybody else more to cover the difference. When a politician is talking about "tax breaks" they're essentially taxing everyone else and sending a check at tax time to people who qualify for "tax breaks."

 

 

Also look up the history of health insurance through work. It started in America back when there was a limit to how much factories could pay workers. Factories were disparately understaffed because nobody would take the low salaries, so they started offering other things like health and dental. It was created through bad government legislation and now look at where we are. Apart from it being subsidized, there is no reason why anyone would want the company writing your checks to also pick your doctor and what procedures you get to have.

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yeah although certain religious groups like the Amish or Mennonites can opt out of social security and have for a while now, but many others believe it's unconstitutional including some of the authors of it in the first place haha. i just don't like the comparison of car insurance to health care.

 

 

i don't really like replying much in this thread because i feel like i've only scratched the surface of knowing about the new healthcare bill not to mention having much of an opinion on it, but when you say "if you prefer private medical insurance you can opt out of the public option" what exactly do you mean? i thought it would be a mandatory thing you had to buy into.

 

Im with you dude i don't know much about the bill so i was merely trying to understand it. However with your point on owning a car and all, not all people have a choice. There are families who need a car for a commute because they either have a real shitty public trans system or don't have one at all. Saying there are alternatives sounds pretty universal and i don't think you can say everyone can find an alternative. But i get your point completely.

However I also think that everyone needs health insurance at some point in their life. Whether you get cancer, or your wife is having pregnancy complications, etc.. I would venture to say needing health insurance of one sort or another is closer to a universal statement than people don't need to drive.

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yes you're right, i was mostly suggesting that people kinda assume the responsibility that goes along with driving and having a license by...well....having a license and car.

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I like that video mclovin. Reminds me how secular the states/colonies were at the time when the constitution was written. America didnt think of itself as one culture, one neighborhood. The people of each state were supposed to have their own culture and govern themselves however they wanted. It was also before we had the industrial revolution and before we started thinking of the benefits that come with economies of scale. If everyone bought healthcare from the same source, everyone's rates would be much, much cheaper.

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I guess Prof Foley is a unbiased source, especially considering that she wrote a book called "The Tea Party".

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So, someone who is actively participating in organizations against the Health Care Act can be trusted not to be biased and to leave out relevant information such as Article 1, Section 8 of the constitution.

 

I do find what she said about the difference between the states and federal constitutions interesting. In effect she is saying the states have more power then the US as a whole. You can take that to another step and imply that the states are more corruptible, since they do not have to necessarily follow the US Constitution if the state constitution says differently, and they can be more easily influenced by corporate entities.

 

See, it is easy to play the same game as the tea party.

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More love to them for supporting the cause regardless of whatever secret agenda they might have. It brings people together that may have not otherwise been subjected to many of these views. Though i do understand what you mean "unwanted support & certain attention" But with things like this you cant pick and choose. Nor can you control what is or isn't said just as long as the ultimate purpose is achieved. Correct?

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That just does not make sense as a reply to what I said.

 

Who are they bringing together? It seems they are separating people instead.

 

"unwanted support & certain attention", who the fuck said that??

 

What ultimate purpose, other then achieving a far right goal which would alienate every American who is not old, white and somewhat wealthy?

 

I think you are fucking with me, so negg'd you get.

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More love to them for supporting the cause regardless of whatever secret agenda they might have. It brings people together that may have not otherwise been subjected to many of these views.

 

:rolleyes:

 

That's a horrible way to look at things.

 

"Bringing people together" doesn't mean a thing if the cause they support is negative, or if their secret agenda (and those tend to be secret for a reason) is detrimental, selfish or harmful.

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Pretty sure the USSC ruling cemented an Obama victoyr come Novemeber

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I mean, id like to say I hope im wrong but what is the alternative?

 

Im not a fan of Obama by any stretch, if you ask me he's basically been a Republican president

other than the very thing that this thread is about.

 

Im glad that more people will have healthcare, I agree with alot of the provisions of the healthcare bill,

but I can tell ya its not what people think it is and its not going to be all gum drops and free shots

for old poor black people.

 

This shit is ganna take a toll, its a shame we dont live in a perfect world.

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