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McLovin

Obama's health care mandate

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2700 page health care bill ..

 

 

Does Obamacare lower the costs of health insurance for all Americans?

 

 

Does Obamacare provide insurance coverage to more Americans?

 

 

Does Obamacare reform Medicaid?

 

 

Does Obamacare provide better healthcare to participants?

 

 

 

 

Unconstitutional ?

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Enhhh how would that be? Taxation without representation is unconstitutional. Taxation WITH representation is constitutional. And the ONLY way healthcare can be affordable to even the poorest American is if everyone pays into it.

 

To add to this, because healthcare reform isn't exactly a NEW topic watch this:

 

I've got to read up on what exactly this new bill is but I'll be back with a breakdown. I will admit that I'm an Obama supporter and the only reason why i have healthcare now is because of Obama's 2011 healthcare reform, so I am a little biased.

 

Also, healthcare is a BIG issue for all 2012 candidates and it's a topic that'll probably make or break this year's elections. For that reason I highly recommend doing your own reading: http://www.npr.org/templates/archives/archive.php?thingId=129913517

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I have been posting very little lately, but I have to throw this into this thread.

 

Using right wing logic, if the mandate is unconstitutional, wouldn't that make the payroll deductions of Medicare and Social Security equally unconstitutional? Are you not forced to pay into this with every legal paycheck?

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I dont see why you should be forced to buy a private companies health insurance, they should just go the whole hog and tax you and provide free healthcare by the government.

 

If I had to pay for private healthcare I couldn't even if it was made law, doesn't mean I get paid more. They should take it out the hands of private business and just do it properly like here in the UK.

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yeah, but then all the moderate right to far right start getting all butt hurt and think we're going commie.

 

i would love an increase in taxes and free health care for all, but americans are way too dumb to ever do that.

 

mandated private insurance would lower the rates, which would be great. not totally unlike car insurance (which i guess you could opt not to drive to avoid paying, can't really do it in this case with health care).

 

 

at the end of the day, there are enough things i like about the bill to keep me supporting it. in my opinion, the lack of a real public option is glaring, and the fact that it doesn't take over insurance companies entirely are it's two biggest faults.

 

i haven't read the whole thing, or really any of it. im basing my opinion from what i've heard from both sides of the aisle. i mean, that's what we pay them to do, representative democracy vs direct democracy and all.

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I think it is definitely better than how things currently are, but it is a shame that (because of the right) they couldn't go the whole hog.

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im one of the 50 million u.s. citizens without health insurance.

 

do i think we should have a mandate? no.

do i think the health care bill is at least a step in the right direction? yes.

 

this video explains things well:

 

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I dont see why you should be forced to buy a private companies health insurance, they should just go the whole hog and tax you and provide free healthcare by the government.

 

If I had to pay for private healthcare I couldn't even if it was made law, doesn't mean I get paid more. They should take it out the hands of private business and just do it properly like here in the UK.

 

I agree fully, but in this country we have soooooo many people who think this free market nonsense works, so they call that socialism or whatever is the derogatory word of the day.

 

It disgusts me whenever I think about anyone that is sick and can not afford to be raped by private insurance, because some people think that it is more important for a business to make a profit vs taking care of sick people. I would love a single payer system, but that will never happen here.

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I agree fully, but in this country we have soooooo many people who think this free market nonsense works, so they call that socialism or whatever is the derogatory word of the day.

 

It disgusts me whenever I think about anyone that is sick and can not afford to be raped by private insurance, because some people think that it is more important for a business to make a profit vs taking care of sick people. I would love a single payer system, but that will never happen here.

 

 

i agree with you, agreeing with decy.

 

the problem is that we can't just do away with the private insurance companies....and if we try to, they will sue.

 

part of the responsibility of the govt. should be to ensure the well-being of its citizens especially when it comes to education and health.

 

funny thing is that social security and the u.s. postal service are "socialist" but people don't complain about those.

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you can have them both cali, we have private healthcare companies here, private hospitals too, you can pay to go get anything sorted out but, you also have the national health service where no one is turned away and you don't even get hit with a bill if you aren't a tax payer (unemployed, visiting, homeless etc).

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^you dirty socialist. Stop trying to spread your anti-american ideas to us patriots.

 

For gods sake, think about the children.

 

:lol: :lol: :lol:

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you can have them both cali, we have private healthcare companies here, private hospitals too, you can pay to go get anything sorted out but, you also have the national health service where no one is turned away and you don't even get hit with a bill if you aren't a tax payer (unemployed, visiting, homeless etc).

 

Australia's the same. Private service is always better but as per any insurance company they actually work harder trying to find reasons why they shouldn't be held to their end of the bargain (you didn't dot this i on your claim form, etc. etc.) than anything else.

 

I think there is a strain of fundamentalist ideology related to constitutionalism/free marketism that creates obstacles to pragmatic solutions in the US.

 

I'm more than happy to pay the medicare levy to know that it's there if I need it (and I have a number of times) and also that its there for friends, family and other citizens I share this country with. I'm not too much of a cunt to share a bit here and there.

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you can have them both cali, we have private healthcare companies here, private hospitals too, you can pay to go get anything sorted out but, you also have the national health service where no one is turned away and you don't even get hit with a bill if you aren't a tax payer (unemployed, visiting, homeless etc).

 

true, we can have both...but the insurance companies here are going to fight tooth and nail to make sure that doesnt happen....they are very very powerful...especially when it comes to lobbying power. i remember seeing them talk about the NHS in the movie "Sicko" but i also remember how fucked up the private insurance companies here in the u.s. are in the same movie.

 

have you seen sicko?

does the NHS help cover meds?

 

^thats another problem, is the pharmaceutical companies here in the states..they get away with charging an arm and a leg.

 

 

tooth and nail.....arm and leg.....healthcare thread...no pun intended.

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I never thought michael moore did the actual healthcare debate any favors with that video. I've been in a cuban hospital before and it's nothing to brag about. All of the hospital equipment was mid-century hammy downs from soviet-era russia. And all of the medical professionals in cuba are working as maids in hotels because they made more money turning down tourist's beds than they did as surgeons and doctors.

 

Kinda wish the same thing would happen here. As it stands nurses make WAYYYYY too much money in this country for what they do, so the people who are supposed to be taking care of you are just there because it was either that or flipping burgers, and nursing payed more.

 

Its awkward because I know ten or twenty nurses and they're really nice people but I fucking hate every everyone in their profession. It's worse than being friends with cops.

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Cali, NHS does cover meds, you pay a nominal fee of about 7 quid if your are given a prescription however in wales it is all free, that is for outpatients, any drugs given in hospital are free.

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@soup lol...i didn't know you went to a cuban hospital....is it really that bad?...i know their cars are old school, but medical equipment too?

 

@decy ...just googled u.s. and u.k. drug cost comparisons and on the 3rd link down i found a peer reviewed scientific article from a journal called "Pharmacotherapy" which was published recently...here is there conclusion (i obviously got the conclusion from the abstract because i did not want to pay to register for the journal) :

 

 

Conclusion The cost paid for statins in the U.S. for people younger than 65 years, who were insured by private companies, was approximately 400% higher than comparable costs paid by the government in the U.K. Available generic statins were substantially less expensive than those that were still under patent in both countries.

 

 

statins are used for patients with high cholesterol (high LDL levels)..which if i remember correctly act as a competitive inhibitor....but i could be wrong..took biochemistry about 3 years ago..oh, and heres the link:

 

http://www.medscape.com/viewarticle/757132

 

 

thats why a lot of americans try to buy their drugs from other countries (like canada).

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Yeah I spent a couple months in cuba when I was 17, learning about the culture and history of the people. It was fun. I smoked and drank a lot and called it "cultural anthropology."

 

Yeah NOTHING in cuba is new. Not the buildings, the infrastructure (there's like 4 foot deep potholes in the middle of the road in downtown havana), the cars and CERTAINLY not the medical facilities. Maybe there was a high-tech medical wing that I didn't see, or maybe things have changed drastically since 04 but everything I did see was ancient looking and sea-foam green.

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I don't take anything Michael Moore says to seriously. Most his documentaries are way too far fetched. I'm not saying there isn't any truth to what he talks about but he is well known for such profound exaggeration and half truths

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I dont see why you should be forced to buy a private companies health insurance, they should just go the whole hog and tax you and provide free healthcare by the government.

 

If I had to pay for private healthcare I couldn't even if it was made law, doesn't mean I get paid more. They should take it out the hands of private business and just do it properly like here in the UK.

 

Absolutely. Until the government runs health care, forcing someone to pay for it is just another tax that is taking the money out of working people's pockets

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Absolutely. Until the government runs health care, forcing someone to pay for it is just another tax that is taking the money out of working people's pockets

 

well right now nobody is forced to pay anything or buy any insurance rather. under the new bill is a different story though. im still undecided, i don't know enough about healthcare in the first place to be honest

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I disagree with forcing people to give money to a private healthcare company, I hope the government forces these companies to remove all exclusions from their policies. No one should be refused anything because of existing conditions etc

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Right now everyone is paying for the people that do not pay when they go to emergency room, which cannot turn anyone away. Those costs are driving everyone elses costs higher.

 

 

This bill is just spreading out the pain.

 

 

BTW I am against all health insurance. I do not see what benefit they provide, except for earning money off of a basic human need.

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