State-mandated “Sexual Brainwashing” Begins in California Schools

[Realism]

it doesn't seem right to teach tolerance.

 

Really?

[Soup forgot his password]

i don't think morality is something that needs to be taught to our kids. i have no problem with homosexuality or lesbianism. but these sort of moral issues need to be addressed and formed on their own, through observations and life experiences and whatnot. your opinions and world view will form over the years on their own, there is no need for the school system to try to teach values to the children. we should be supporting free thinking in our schools.

 

the only thing the schools need to be teaching our children is the straight facts. like cunt_eastwood said. math, science, reading etc. i am not opposed to though, giving them philosophical questions to answer on their own. something to get them to think about the world around them. that imo is the way these kind of things need to done. by sitting down and really thinking over an issue.

 

It's a common error to confuse morals with ethics. Whats moral is not always what's ethical. It is ETHICAL to teach kids to respect each others differences and let bygones be bygones. That's what's being taught in our schools, and that's very different than what a church teaches—which are MORALS. It's ethical to not peek over your neighbors fence and mind your own fucking business. It's MORAL sometimes to be a nosy prick and shove your own agenda into peoples private lives. The constitution is ETHICAL. The constitution declares liberty and justice for all. Churchgoers sometimes forget this and does things that destroy the constitutional rights for gay people. When this happens it's ETHICAL to fuck over churchgoers who think they deserve constitutional rights more than others.

 

Here's something else to consider. The reason why people from poor areas are more unemployed than people from rich areas is because people from rich areas went to preschool. Preschool is where children get the most important lessons of their entire life. Preschool teaches how to deal with stress, how to not throw temper tantrums, how to play nice with others and how to share. You can learn math at any point in your life, but study after study shows that once a person gets older, teaching someone basic social skills and how not to be a violent antisocial prick is near-impossible.

 

The same goes for learning how to tolerate differences. Imagine a high school where the gay kid is treated like one of the guys. You think it's fair for that gay kid to be ridiculed his whole fucking life because the church didn't want kids to learn to respect homosexuals when they were in elementary school?

 

 

Also, what the fuck is a straight-fact? Is that some kind of entendre? Cant learn gay facts, only straight facts? I know for certain the history i learned wasn't factual at all. Schools should be about getting children ready for the workplace. That means learning to be happy, friendly, social, and tolerant. Everything else you just mentioned is of secondary importance in the workplace.

 

How about we take out the pledge of allegiance and spend those 30 seconds a day on tolerance? Why the fuck are kids still doing that reagan era cold-war salute to a blind hatred of russia?

[Soup forgot his password]

What I don't get here is this: 12oz is a bunch of misfits who decided to do something completely against mainstream america. NOTHING fucks over the status quo like being cool with other types of people, so why are you pushing back against gay rights and gay tolerance? Gay is the new black. Its no longer cool for a white guy to have a black friend. Its cool for a white guy to have a gay friend. And especially cool to have a black gay friend.

 

I'll add Vonnegut's quote here, “If you really want to hurt your parents, and you don't have the nerve to be gay, the least you can do is go into the arts. I'm not kidding. The arts are not a way to make a living. They are a very human way to make life more bearable.”

 

The gay struggle is something I would hope 12oz could empathize with.

[Fist 666]

it doesn't surprise me that people outside of mclovin have homophobic tendencies.

 

graff has such a machismo element to it that separates it from the typical thoughtful/aware art scene.

[Soup forgot his password]

I got into graffiti because I was always a drawer and the only other kids at my school who drew were writers. Anyone who got into graffiti for the machismo/graff groupies can eat a dick.

[Fist 666]

i don't disagree

[Bojangles]

8====D~~~

 

That's all I've got. Sorry!

[McLovin]

({})

[UPS!]

Who the fuck does graffiti to try to prove theyre a man?

And as far as graff groupies go, its like a consolation prize.

 

As far as this school shit goes, we can agree to disagree.

Let the students teach each other SOCIAL knowledge, and the state paid teachers to teach academic knowledge, which does in fact prepare you not only for the workplace, but real fucking life.

 

Maby you wont have to do some crazy ass trigonometry problem, but its good excersive for your noodle.

 

Again, not homophobic, arachaphobic, nothin with a -phobic on the end of it, all im saying is I dont want the state, or the church for that argument teaching my kids nothing about morals or ethics or how they should think.

[Soup forgot his password]

And how is teaching children about the existence of homosexuality not academic knowledge? There's a science behind it showing that homosexuality is genetically hardwired into children by the age of two. Similary, the ability to believe there is a man in the sky and you are able to speak to him, is a genetic trait as well. You can't stop homesexuality by teaching or not teaching it any more than you can stop right wingers from trying to talk to god by telling them things like "facts."

 

So no, it's not social knowledge. Maybe in greece man-love was some cool "in" thing to do, but no man in america fucks another man because they're trying to fit in to society. A homosexual man will, in fact, force himself upon a woman solely because of what you've so stupidly called "social knowledge." Not saying you're stupid, but the concept of "social knowledge" is fucking retarded in my book—Which i've aptly titled, "The Big Book of Stupid Things Other People Come up With, With No Basis In Reality. Whatsoever."

 

If homosexuality was "social knowledge" why are there male penguins fucking other male penguins in the ass? Were those penguins sexually brainwashed by Californian liberals? There are gay pandas fucking each other senseless right now as I'm typing this. Lionesses are dozing off in the sunbaked african sahara licking each others twats, but we don't teach that because the current curriculum in our so-called "religion-free zone" public educational system has been structured by right winged conservatives. In texas, public schools across the state teach children the importance of baptism—Not what baptism is, but how fucking important it is. And in California we teach marriage happens between a man and a woman, and that mormons in fucking Utah know whats best for society.

 

What I'm trying to say is, you have to look at why we haven't been teaching homosexuality in the public educational system already. Being gay is a fact of the animal kingdom, just like its a fact otters use rocks to open clams and sea urchins—So if we're devoted to teaching children "the facts" why isn't that included? As a western country, we derive most of our social values from greek society who was extremely pro-bono about gay sex, and yet we're not. SO what happened in the last 2000 years for us to keep everything else, but throw that part out? Jesus fucking Christ happened, and free speech/constitutional freedoms have been open to interpretation ever since.

 

Lets also not forget that in Britain, BLASPHEMING was against state law until last year. LAST YEAR no television show, no radio show, no theater group, book, or alternative media form was allowed to say anything bad about or satire the church. And keep in mind, Britain is also a place where it's common decency for politicians not to bring their religious beliefs into political discussions. THe united states on the other hand, is a bunch of religious christian wing nuts who won't vote for someone unless they praise the one and only holy savior and divine creator of the universe, Tony Bennett. And/or Jesus Christ.

[viperface]

I agree with everything, but this is not exactly true:

 

Lets also not forget that in Britain, BLASPHEMING was against state law until last year. LAST YEAR no television show, no radio show, no theater group, book, or alternative media form was allowed to say anything bad about or satire the church.

 

 

[Soup forgot his password]

Now you understand why Monty Python was so bad ass.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blasphemy_law_in_the_United_Kingdom

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jerry_Springer:_The_Opera

[Mr. Incognito]

im curious to know how many people who are FOR public schools teaching young kids this stuff actually have kids of their own. and for those that do, why would you prefer the public school to do YOUR job of teaching them wrong from right, acceptable from unacceptable and so on instead of teaching your child yourself, when you see fit? if you're that passionate or feel even the slightest bit for the cause, it only makes sense that you would do it yourself. sounds like some of you are leading by your own overly liberal example by passing off your job as a parent onto someone else.

 

for those who don't have kids, why don't you shut the fuck up and encourage actual parenting instead of having the public school system alleviate it for you?

[Soup forgot his password]

Listen to your logic. "If you're not a parent you have no say in the public education system." Explain to me why that makes sense to you and nobody else. Do you have kids? Explain to me why you DON'T want tolerance and the history of homosexuality taught in public schools. Because you think you'd do a better job of explaining homosexuality to your kids? Lets hear how that would go.

 

My mom's a 3rd grade teacher and if you think you can successfully encourage parents to preach tolerance to their children, you should try being a 3rd grade teacher too. NO PARENT wants to hear about how they should raise their child from anybody else and it's the children who suffer for it. MOST parents expect the teachers to do that. Especially in working-class areas where the parents are mostly absent from their child's life. They expect the teacher to be that kid's guardian/psychologist/tutor/babysitter, because the parents are just focused on putting food on the table.

[Mr. Incognito]

im not suggesting all people encourage tolerance to their children, that wasn't an aspect of my argument really. what i was doing was asking the question of WHY people like you who want it to be taught in the classroom wouldn't rather just teach it themselves. i don't see an added benefit to them learning about it at school rather than home from their parents, unless some of you think an elementary school teacher is just better at teaching your kids morality and ethics.....in which case i wouldn't consider you cut out to be a good parent

[Soup forgot his password]

Because they don't receive it at home. How many parents do you think right now are teaching children that gender roles in america/the world are fucked up and that their child should feel free to be whatever makes them happy?

[Mr. Incognito]

is that a serious question? because i don't know the answer to a question like that and neither do you. so that's a dumb question and an even weaker argument. i can tell you i would teach my kids tolerance and acceptance when i personally would see fit because i'd rather do it than some public school teacher. AND im a pretty conservative dude. i can't be the only one.

 

from the sounds of it, you would rather a school teacher tell your kids about it than yourself. that's more fucked up than parents teaching their kids to shun homosexuality in my opinion.

[Soup forgot his password]

You're right. Schools shouldn't teach kids it's okay to be gay. If there's something that I know then that's my duty as a parent to teach it to my kids. I'm pretty good at math, so lets not teach that to kids either. Every parent can read too, so we don't have to teach that either. Everyone knows about as much US history as taught in elementary school too. Actually I'm fairly certain MOST parents are as smart as 5th graders, so lets take the kids out of school altogether. Because if we don't teach all those things to our kids ourselves, then Mr. Incognito will think we're being fucked up.

 

.....

 

 

Are you getting what I'm saying here? Why do you want parents to teach their kids about homosexuality, but everything else a school teaches, which parents generally know too, is okay to be taught at schools? Why not teach tolerance at schools all day and let parents teach their kids reading and writing? Why are you so against specifically HOMOSEXUALITY in the cirriculum?

[Mr. Incognito]

how did i know you would try and compare the teaching of homosexuality/transgender whatever to reading, writing and math in school?

 

 

first off, im not against homosexuality specifically in a young child's school curriculum, im against any sexuality subject in a young child's school curriculum. second, my answer to your question i would think would be so obvious that even you would already know im going to say it. i don't believe sexuality is an academic subject that young kids should have to go through. someone in here already said that, and you tried to dispute it by saying there is scientific research that has shown kids as early as 2 years old to be gay. Sorry man, I don't buy that as a reason as to why it should be taught in school, at all. what is your opinion on someone like me who would rather educate their own kid on homosexuality, acceptance and right vs. wrong regarding the matter than a school teacher? is that somehow wrong?

 

 

also, it doesn't take a genius of a parent to help their elementary school level kid with any standard subject they are taught. come on man. i know you aren't an idiot judging from other posts you've made but that argument is pretty weak.

[Soup forgot his password]

im not against homosexuality specifically in a young child's school curriculum

 

So why are you arguing with me?

 

also, it doesn't take a genius of a parent to help their elementary school level kid with any standard subject they are taught. come on man. i know you aren't an idiot judging from other posts you've made but that argument is pretty weak.

 

You grew up in a decent suburb, didn't you? So did I, so I understand why you think a child's education should be limited to how much the parent is willing to participate.

 

what is your opinion on someone like me who would rather educate their own kid on homosexuality, acceptance and right vs. wrong regarding the matter than a school teacher? is that somehow wrong?

 

The mission statement on the public educational system is to provide the tools a child needs to be successful and positively contribute to society. If you want your child to go to public school in California, your child is going to receive an education on tolerance of people regardless of race, gender identity, or sexual preference. If you want your child to have nothing to do with homosexuality or homosexuals, I would recommend not living here. Perhaps you'd be better off in Texas, India, Afghanistan or any other place populated by conservative religious wing nuts. Not that you'll be farther away from homosexuals, but at least there they have the common decency to be closeted and miserable, or to move to California. That way you can tell yourself you're supportive of homosexuality, without actually having to interface with them.

[Soup forgot his password]

Im curious what you would teach your kid that would be so different than what a public school would teach. Let me give you a scenario and you tell me how you'd react:

Your ten year old son wants to go to school dressed like a girl, how do you react?

 

Your ten year old son has a sleepover at another boy's house. The next day you get a furious call from the boy's mother that your son kissed her boy on the lips. How do you handle the situation?

 

Word gets around at school about your ten year old son kissing another boy. They make fun of him at school. He comes home crying. How do you handle the situation? Also, what education do you give him at home?

 

At this point you're pretty certain that your son is gay, or at least he's exploring gender roles. Why are you grateful that homosexuality isn't being taught at schools?

[ERIZENO]

The fact that anyone against this keeps mentioning teaching 2-4 years old kids being taught any bit of sexuality didn't read the same article. It specifically framed how families come in all shapes and sizes a preschool level of understanding tolerance. Getting into the sexuality of it occurs parallel to the rest of sexual education in school.

 

This article was framed by someone with an agenda to make it sound horrible without room for difference of opinion, too much like the rest of overly religious dogma.

 

Its sad, I am not yet a parent ... will be soon enough. I don't want my kid to be taught lies to satisfy the prejudice of one group of people. Regardless if that is homophobia, or creationism. I would like my kid to see it all and make an educated decision for themselves.

[Mr. Incognito]

So why are you arguing with me?

 

 

 

You grew up in a decent suburb, didn't you? So did I, so I understand why you think a child's education should be limited to how much the parent is willing to participate.

 

 

 

The mission statement on the public educational system is to provide the tools a child needs to be successful and positively contribute to society. If you want your child to go to public school in California, your child is going to receive an education on tolerance of people regardless of race, gender identity, or sexual preference. If you want your child to have nothing to do with homosexuality or homosexuals, I would recommend not living here. Perhaps you'd be better off in Texas, India, Afghanistan or any other place populated by conservative religious wing nuts. Not that you'll be farther away from homosexuals, but at least there they have the common decency to be closeted and miserable, or to move to California. That way you can tell yourself you're supportive of homosexuality, without actually having to interface with them.

 

 

 

 

1. that took some keen "quoting" to completely take what i said out of context. read the whole sentence, smart ass.

 

2. i don't blame you for assuming anyone who doesn't live in a suburb would be too busy or too dumb to help their kid out with elementary level subjects. liberals like you always keep the bar low for those people. personally i don't agree. to answer your question, yes, i grew up in a suburb with a working class family.

 

3. we already both agree on being tolerant of anyone regardless of race/gender/sexuality apparently, but the argument is a matter of where the child learns the lessons. I live in NY dude, it's about second to California when it comes to being gay and liberal. im not a backwoods Texas bumpkin.

[Mr. Incognito]

Im curious what you would teach your kid that would be so different than what a public school would teach. Let me give you a scenario and you tell me how you'd react:

Your ten year old son wants to go to school dressed like a girl, how do you react?

 

Your ten year old son has a sleepover at another boy's house. The next day you get a furious call from the boy's mother that your son kissed her boy on the lips. How do you handle the situation?

 

Word gets around at school about your ten year old son kissing another boy. They make fun of him at school. He comes home crying. How do you handle the situation? Also, what education do you give him at home?

 

At this point you're pretty certain that your son is gay, or at least he's exploring gender roles. Why are you grateful that homosexuality isn't being taught at schools?

 

 

are you really suggesting those are the types of things/scenarios that should or would be included in a homosexual education for elementary school kids?

[Soup forgot his password]

If you read the article that this whole thread is based on you'd know that's EXACTLY what the education IS—To change the cultural attitude towards homosexuality and prevent future bullying in schools— But you didn't read that and instead lead your stupid fucking blind charge on something you don't understand like so many conservative dip shits before you. The difference between you and them is you're just smart enough not to say things like "blasphemy" or "fuck political correctness." And pepper in a whole lot of rhetoric about "family values" and "a parent knows best." But that doesn't make you any less of the right wing religious ilk that's blindly eroding the constitutional freedoms of everyone else.

 

Actually your rhetoric is confusing to me because you can't seem to make up your mind about where you want to stand: FOR not being labeled as a homophobe or AGAINST liberalism and political correctness. Figure out where you stand and get back to me because you can't have it both ways.

[Mr. Incognito]

i read the shit months ago the first day it was posted. i didn't re read it at all, all i did was ask a question to those who support it and you're the only one who responded. big deal br0

 

 

 

 

 

Actually your rhetoric is confusing to me because you can't seem to make up your mind about where you want to stand: FOR not being labeled as a homophobe or AGAINST liberalism and political correctness. Figure out where you stand and get back to me because you can't have it both ways.

 

 

ah yes, you probably also say you can't have conservative views without being religious too, right? as if it matters in the first place? i don't give a shit about political correctness and i don't give a shit about what you really feel the need to label me as. we can disagree on this forever, it's a matter of personal morality and i stand by the fact that kids in elementary/middle school are too young to understand any scientific analysis within a homosexuals mind, like you suggested before in regards to the academics of it.

 

 

im not even suggesting i would "home school" my kids on the topic of transgender/homosexual lifestyles, but it's more like i would teach them to be accepting of any/everyone. just like any parent should do...

[Soup forgot his password]

Edit: Im just gonna make this post simple. HERES WHAT THIS THREAD IS ABOUT, since you couldn't be bothered to read the second paragraph in the article:

 

Known as the Fair, Accurate, Inclusive, and Respectful (FAIR) Education Act, the law adds “lesbian, gay, bisexual, and transgender [LGBT] Americans” to the list of minority groups which schools are required to portray positively. It mandates that social-science “instructional materials” include “the role and contributions of … lesbian, gay, bisexual, and transgender Americans.” It prohibits teachers and school districts from “sponsor[ing] any activity that promotes a discriminatory bias on the basis of … sexual orientation.” It forbids state and local school boards from adopting any curriculum “reflecting adversely upon persons on the basis of … sexual orientation.” And since the required instruction is woven into regular social-science lessons, parents are given no warning that it will occur and no option to remove their children from class when such instruction is taking place.

 

If you have any more horse shit posts to make it better fucking be about the thread topic instead of the hypocritical unintelligible off-topic ramblings of a moron you just posted. Please, for your hypothetical bigoted children's sake, stop talking out of your ass.

Thanks.

 

Oh and http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christian_Right#Origins_of_the_Christian_right_in_the_United_States So I dunno, you tell me if you could be an atheist conservative. Or a black conservative. Or a gay conservative. Im thinking the answer is yes, but only if you want to be a gimmick with somebody else's hand up your ass.

[Realism]

im not suggesting all people encourage tolerance to their children, that wasn't an aspect of my argument really. what i was doing was asking the question of WHY people like you who want it to be taught in the classroom wouldn't rather just teach it themselves. i don't see an added benefit to them learning about it at school rather than home from their parents, unless some of you think an elementary school teacher is just better at teaching your kids morality and ethics.....in which case i wouldn't consider you cut out to be a good parent

 

I'm responding to this without reading further, so it may well have been covered, but I think it's a fair bet to say these parents will have teaching it at home covered. Reinforcement in school might be a factor of why they want it taught, but I'd say the overall reason is so the rest of the little shits with lazy and/or intolerant parents will get educated as well...

[Soup forgot his password]

yeah that's been covered. To which mr. incognito's replied "That's not what this thread is about."

then promptly admitted to not having any clue what this thread is about, because he has absolutely no recollection of the article this whole thread is about Then he went on to say it wasn't a big deal that he was unfamiliar with the discussion topic and continued to ramble on anyway.

 

 

When you think about it, this is all standard procedure for any right-wing religious nut: hear about something that has good moral christians up in arms, join the mob without having any clue what the fuss is about, shut down the thing they were so mad about but didn't have the brains to learn what it actually way, stomp on the constitutional rights of anyone who doesn't share their bigoted evangelist morality.

 

In mr. incognito's case, I can't tell if he's smart enough to try to hide his christian//protestant/conservative background or if he's so dumb he doesn't even realize he has one.

[Mr. Incognito]

you keep quoting me saying things i never even said, which makes me think you read/think what you want me to say rather than what i actually did. i went back and read the article last night, and it changed nothing in my opinion. it was no more enlightening to what the topic is "actually about"

 

it's pretty funny that you have me pegged as a hardcore conservative wing-nut christian, yet all i've been suggesting throughout my posts was a parent doing their best to teach their kid acceptance of everyone, and having a better affect at it than a public school teacher. yet that's bigoted? not one thing i said in any of my posts was bigoted. apparently you're just an overly sensitive bleeding heart, and that's fine, i really don't fucking care, but what's the point in me even arguing if you're only gonna put words in my mouth and take things completely out of context, while just writing it off as christian right wing rhetoric. haha i've never been to chuch in my life man...my conservative family and myself could give two shits about the bible