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Occupy Wall Street


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When you have financial institutions hiring quantum physicists and scientists and math wizards to come up with these complex financial products something is very wrong. The financial markets have been viewed as this wonderful creator of wealth, so most of the western world has neglected their manufacturing and other actual product creation markets in favour for these complex financial schemes. It is a house built on cards.

 

Really? You don't want math wizards working in financial institutions? Where would you have them work?

 

 

Anywho I assume the "house of cards" analogy is referring to subprime lending since that's the nearest example I can think of in banking. Here's the thing about a house of cards: when it falls it takes everything with it. Subprime lending in the end fucked over the people who invented the thing just as much as everyone else. Im not talking about the CEO's with golden parachutes. I'm talking about the actual inventors who stare at computers most of their lives, crunching numbers, trying to make their bosses happy.

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the inventors are starring at their computers creating these things because that iss what the ceos want them to do, maximise profit as much as possible with no thought to anything else.

 

I am not really that bothered with the whole occupy thing, all I think is thatthere should be much strict rules on financial transactions and tougher, better managed regulation of financial institutions.

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the inventors are starring at their computers creating these things because that iss what the ceos want them to do, maximise profit as much as possible with no thought to anything else.

 

You're either unionized or unemployed aren't you? I'm guessing the latter since you spelled maximize with an s. If you worked like normal people you'd know that the ONLY reason you have a job is to increase profits, not the other way around. If a company does well, you do well. If a company does NOT do well you do NOT do well.

 

I am not really that bothered with the whole occupy thing, all I think is thatthere should be much strict rules on financial transactions and tougher, better managed regulation of financial institutions.

 

Now you're still missing my earlier point. CEOS WANT TO INCREASE PROFITS. THEY DONT WANT BADDLY DESIGNED CDO'S. SUBPRIME MORTGAGES TURNED OUT TO BE A BADDLY DESIGNED CDO THAT HURT THE COMPANY, THEREFOR SUBPRIME MORTGAGES NO LONGER EXIST. THE RULES YOU WANT TO CREATE ARE ALREADY INHERENT IN THE CURRENT FINANCIAL SYSTEM.

 

And one more thing for you to think about. What you want is for the government to step in and control banks. They have that in china, and many economists blame china for the housing collapse in America. The chinese government can print all the money they want and did so to a tune of trillions of US dollars. Then they bought US debt and made it incredibly cheap for american banks to loan out money because of the chinese-caused inflation, which in turn caused the housing bubble, and the housing collapse. The reason why the economic crisis is seemingly over is because China has seemingly halted their inflation.

/oversimplification for TLDR purposes

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no I do have a job and I am not unionized thanks Soup, it is generally spelt with an S in the UK, maximise not maximize.

 

Profit isn't the only goal of business, if you maximise short term profits it generally has a negative impace on the longer term prospects of the company. You can cut employee benefits to improve profit (less productive less morale with the workers), you can cut training for workers (less outlay in training and increase in profits but not so good for long term prospects), you could outsource your production (increase in profits, sometimes drop in product quality thus hitting the brand reputation). To say that profit is the only reason for business does not show the whole picture unless you have no interest in your company actually having any longer term prospects.

 

Also people don't just work for profit, they also work for self improvement, society, a sense of commitment, obviously they wouldnt do it for free however they may earn less than they can in other professions due to their beliefs, the free market alwayts assumes that people solely work for profit.

 

 

It isn't all about the sub-prime mortgages. There are other things like short selling that have negative effects (I know some countries have now banned this practise too).

 

I do not ask for governments to control banks, I am not advocating for state run banks, I am saying the regulation of the financial markets should be stricter, with regulators that actually understand the market they are regulating (something we didn't have before).

 

Also those CEOs that gambled on the subprime markets had nothing to loose, even if it did go all pear shaped they would walk away with a golden handshake from the company and receive huge amounts of money from the company firing them. That is wrong. There is zero consequences for the companies or individuals involved. Not to mention the completely ass backwards way the credit rating agencies work but that is something different.

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And one more thing for you to think about. What you want is for the government to step in and control banks. They have that in china, and many economists blame china for the housing collapse in America. The chinese government can print all the money they want and did so to a tune of trillions of US dollars. Then they bought US debt and made it incredibly cheap for american banks to loan out money because of the chinese-caused inflation, which in turn caused the housing bubble, and the housing collapse. The reason why the economic crisis is seemingly over is because China has seemingly halted their inflation.

/oversimplification for TLDR purposes

 

Seriously?

 

Can you post any kind of link to support this? Or how it makes any sense? Who are these economists and where do they work?

 

Our "crisis" isn't over, who actually thinks this?

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I know I have dipped out for a little bit. i have been busy working and what not.

 

This post is bound to stir the pot, but I really have to wonder what you guys think about:

 

The derivatives market, occupy, and the free market (libertarianism)?

 

The current speculation market as it relates to the oil industry and the occupy movement?

 

No matter what I have heard about the "free market" and libertarianism, the occupy movement, and capitalism, I have not heard anything that seems to address the issues that derivatives and the speculation markets cause.

 

When it all comes down to the nuts and bolts of it all, these markets are the cause of numerous problems that are affecting America today, yet no one seems to be addressing them.

 

 

There is a long lasting occupy movement down the street from my work. I have talked to them and asked them about these issues, and it is like talking to grade school students about college issues. They just had no idea about what I was talking about.

 

What do you guys think about this?

 

I know a lot more about this than most of my friends, and you're right...when I start trying to explain it to them they either don't care or don't get it.

 

Just before OWS I was reading up on derivatives, credit default swaps, Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac, how Goldman Sachs/JP Morgan hired quantitative analysts who created the VaR...it's fascinating because all of this was designed and implemented more or less out in the open and hardly anyone tried to stop it.

 

I've recommended the following book before, it's easily the best account written about the 2008 collapse plus you don't need to have a degree in economics to understand it-

 

http://www.amazon.com/All-Devils-Are-Here-Financial/dp/1591843634

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Seriously?

 

Can you post any kind of link to support this? Or how it makes any sense? Who are these economists and where do they work?

 

Our "crisis" isn't over, who actually thinks this?

 

http://www.npr.org/blogs/money/2012/03/02/147826043/the-friday-podcast-chinas-giant-pool-of-money

 

And the housing crisis has been over. Housing prices are quick to fall, slow to rise. Just like gas prices are quick to rise slow to fall. The current economic turmoil is related to Greece lying about their deficit when they joined the EU.

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without capitalism would we not be speaking to each other right now on these computers? you should all be bowing down on your knees saying "thank you capitalism" three times fast while looking at yourself in the mirror .. <-- says my friend lol[/color]

 

The microchip, computer and internet would not have been made possible without massive tax subsidies to the pentagon, so therefore unless you are for state-socialism you cannot use the internet. Same logic, you flipping idiot.

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http://mises.org/daily/2211

 

The invention of such technology started as a military program. Just like planes, rockets, modern cars and motorcycles, text messages, the entire infrastructure of california booming into the 4th largest economy compared to every country in the world....all reactions by the US government to the first and second world war. But the government wasn't the motivator behind invention, it was the first application for those inventions, and what took that technology out of the military and into the hands of the consumer was the free market. America today is still the biggest manufacturer and innovator in the world.

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That couldn't be farther from the truth. As china becomes richer exporting goods from china becomes more expensive. Importing into china begins to look more lucrative. The Chinese people are becoming richer and can afford to buy higher quality foreign goods, so you'll see a much greater level of imports into china from other countries. Also you'll see more manufacturing jobs returning to America from overseas. Any country becoming richer is better for America. This is our game.

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Still. China is a very expensive place to live, despite the common thought that it's a 'cheap' place. $400 jeans are still the order of the day, and people would rather save than spend, it's cultural. They are changing the wage structure to try and increase domestic/internal spending - whilst it hasn't worked so far, if it does, it will change the landscape.

 

I certainly don't discount what you've linked me to.

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