Mojito Posted October 9, 2011 Share Posted October 9, 2011 I wonder how close to the mark this is? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KM4RT Posted October 9, 2011 Share Posted October 9, 2011 If you don't own or have shares in these private/public companies, why would you care about executive pay? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fist 666 Posted October 9, 2011 Share Posted October 9, 2011 its not a simple question of jealousy, its a question of a voice in our democracy. the wealthy can lobby for their laws on tax, environmental protection, worker pay, etc while the vast majority of us have virtually no voice. our system is greatly flawed and an imbalanced distribution of wealth allows them a greater voice, and thus great control in our democracy. individually its not such a big deal, but as a whole (read fortune 500 companies) they reflect the asymmetrical growth that has greatly affected the livelihoods of those living within our economy. the graph above your post shows the ratio of ceo pay to average worker pay 475:1. 30 years ago it was only about 40:1. here's a clearer picture. while cost of living has increased drastically over the last several decades the wages of the worker have not grown at a comparable rate (comparable to cost of living increase, obv not ceo income growth rate). money is power, and the 80-85% of us that hold only 7% of the wealth VS the 15-20% that hold over 90% of the wealth don't stand a chance of having our voice heard and having our interests watched by the people we elect... there are many complaints, thats mine. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
theprotester Posted October 9, 2011 Share Posted October 9, 2011 Work harder. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DPMS556 Posted October 9, 2011 Share Posted October 9, 2011 hahahhaha,,, these protesters need to be drag out into a corn field and a have thier throats cuts Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fist 666 Posted October 9, 2011 Share Posted October 9, 2011 go away troll. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fist 666 Posted October 9, 2011 Share Posted October 9, 2011 Work harder. work harder for what? a greater share of the 7%? the wealthy aren't going to give up any of what they have i've had a job since i was 14, i plan on having a job until i die, i'm not mad that i have to work, or work hard or have a shitty job. i can work hard all i want but i'll never be able to vote hard unless their is serious change. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
theprotester Posted October 9, 2011 Share Posted October 9, 2011 Why should they 'give it up'? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mercer Posted October 9, 2011 Share Posted October 9, 2011 I think there are too many people on soap boxes who have no understanding of basic economics or anything that resembles a feasible plan. Half that list of demands sounds more like a joke to me than anything but the important thing here is the fragmentation. Now that conservatives are fragmenting into tea party, libritarian, ect. the left must do so as well because the current 2 party system is a huge part of the problem IMO. Half of what I see being said in web videos isn't intelligent IMO but I haven't gone down myself to check this out. That said, I like how most of what they're saying has nothing to do with the traditional established liberal ideology, or the Democrats platform. For right now, all there are is complaints without solutions, but sometimes just acknowledging there is a huge problem is the first step. I don't know how this will end, but I at least like where it's going. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MURDERTRAIN Posted October 9, 2011 Share Posted October 9, 2011 haha now i want to see that video. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
theprotester Posted October 9, 2011 Share Posted October 9, 2011 Link to vid? Whilst I agree entirely that some horrible shit went down in regards to overlooking criminality on Wall St - how do you think the USD would be looking if the offenders were taken to the cleaners? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fist 666 Posted October 9, 2011 Share Posted October 9, 2011 Why should they 'give it up'? well, for a start a great portion of it is not theirs to begin with; see federal bail out. see trading mortgage backed securities. see credit default swaps. see collateralized debt obligation. wall street traded OUR assets for their profits, and we pay/ed for their losses. our children will keep paying for that money lost on known toxic assets. link to grayson clip: http://www.mediaite.com/tv/alan-grayson-gets-standing-ovation-while-bill-maher-panel-mocks-occupy-wall-street-hippies/ well, off to my local OCCUPY meeting. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
theprotester Posted October 9, 2011 Share Posted October 9, 2011 We had a 'stimulus package' in Australia as well, I am up to speed on the logistics of the American 'bail outs' - my biggest problem with the Occupy movement is that is seems to have no direction. If 'Wall St' pays back the entirety of the 'bail out' over a course of time - would that clean the slate? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KM4RT Posted October 10, 2011 Share Posted October 10, 2011 Fist......wealth is in no way guaranteed or protected. You can blame CDOs and other derivative financial products and their role in the gfc, along with a handful of wall st bankers. But what about the millions of ordinary American households that took on debt they couldn't afford? The whole crisis in 2008 actually has roots in the tech bubble of the 90s. That's how complex this whole economics thing is! Blaming wall st is useless, because they are a minor part of the problem. Why did people buy mcmansions they couldn't afford...a status thing, irrational psychological reasons. The point I'm trying to make is that these things need to be looked holistically, not picking on one component. CEO salaries have little to do with it Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KM4RT Posted October 10, 2011 Share Posted October 10, 2011 Work harder. This is a blunt point, but its true. You CAN move into a position of power, influence, and wealth. Governments and corporations are run by people. Ordinary people. Sure some inherit their positions, but they're in the minority. How do you think the Googles, Nikess, McDonalds of thr world come to exist? How do you think people come to influence public policy? Is it maybe because they work in local, state, federal government organisations. I'm not trying to sound like a dick here. But the freedom Americans treasure so much allows you to do all these things. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zig Posted October 10, 2011 Share Posted October 10, 2011 It's easy for you (generality, not specifically anyone) to sit back and judge these people's intelligence on the political issues they have grievances with when you're comfortable with the way things are to the point that you aren't doing anything yourself about it. Fact is, there is tons of shit wrong that needs to be brought the to forefront of the political conversation in this country and occupywallst is stirring shit up. Regardless of the beliefs most of these protesters have, which I personally am in disagreement with, I respect the fact that they are out there protesting and getting the ball rolling. I still have a bad feeling they will be manipulated and mislead into positions that are supported by the very forces they are attempting to fight against, but that's their own ignorance and naivety they will have to confront as well. http://www.washingtonsblog.com/2011/10/occupy-wall-street-and-occupy-the-fed-are-two-sides-of-the-same-coin.html Occupy Wall Street and Occupy the Fed Are Two Sides of the Same Coin The Occupy Wall Street protests are obviously targeting Wall Street, i.e. the giant banks. The Occupy the Fed protests – led by Alex Jones, the Oathkeepers and other conservatives – are targeting the Federal Reserve. * While some are trying to weaken these two movements through a divide-and-conquer strategy, the truth is that they are two sides of the same coin. Specifically, the corrupt, giant banks would never have gotten so big and powerful on their own. In a free market, the leaner banks with sounder business models would be growing, while the giants who made reckless speculative gambles would have gone bust. See this, this and this. It is the Federal Reserve, Treasury and Congress who have repeatedly bailed out the big banks, ensured they make money at taxpayer expense, exempted them from standard accounting practices and the criminal and fraud laws which govern the little guy, encouraged insane amounts of leverage, and enabled the too big to fail banks – through “moral hazard” – to become even more reckless. Indeed, the government made them big in the first place. As I noted in 2009: As MIT economics professor and former IMF chief economist Simon Johnson points out today, the official White House position is that: (1) The government created the mega-giants, and they are not the product of free market competition *** (3) Giant banks are good for the economy And given that the 12 Federal Reserve banks are private – see this, this and this – the giant banks have a huge amount of influence on what the Fed does. Indeed, the money-center banks in New York control the New York Fed, the most powerful Fed bank. Indeed, Jamie Dimon – the head of JP Morgan Chase – is a Director of the New York Fed. Any attempt by the left to say that the free market is all bad and the government is all good is naive and counter-productive. And any attempt by the right to say that we should leave the giant banks alone because that’s the free market are wrong. The Federal Reserve and the giant banks are part of a single malignant, symbiotic relationship. Conservatives and liberals should unite in breaking up both. * This is an over-simplification. In reality, many conservatives and people who would like to end the Fed are part of the Wall Street protests … and reining in the Fed is one of the central platforms of Occupy Wall Street. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
theprotester Posted October 10, 2011 Share Posted October 10, 2011 The list of demands has made our questioning of the movements intelligence warranted. Clear all world debt? Really? Open borders? What? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soup Posted October 10, 2011 Share Posted October 10, 2011 Where the fuck is #OccupyEconomicsLecture or maybe they're all hot dumb blondes. In which case #OccupyMyBed for some sexy occupation. Someone get the flyers out. Thx. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fist 666 Posted October 10, 2011 Share Posted October 10, 2011 triple post! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fist 666 Posted October 10, 2011 Share Posted October 10, 2011 triple post Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fist 666 Posted October 10, 2011 Share Posted October 10, 2011 triple! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
theprotester Posted October 10, 2011 Share Posted October 10, 2011 Inching towards a one world government? In this way, open boarders is not a problem for individuals, it is only a problem for states and how they provide services. What? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Citizen X Posted October 10, 2011 Share Posted October 10, 2011 Now that conservatives are fragmenting into tea party, libritarian, ect. the left must do so as well because the current 2 party system is a huge part of the problem IMO.[/img] I disagree, the Left has been characterized by fragmentation since time immemorial. What the Left needs to do is TRULY coalesce and settle on a core set of addressable issues. Fuck these chimerical 'hope and change' pledges... If the Left truly wants to assert itself in the next decade it's going to have to take the rhetoric of the Right and actually make it happen (i.e. fiscal responsability, less government intrusion in private life). Regulate the fuck out of business and banking, however. The Right is currently married to "job killing" whatevers and "class warfare". Essentially a deflection from their own failed policies and an attempt to rally the bourgeoise. Unfortunately, the Left has failed several times recently to succinctly highlight the obstructionist tactics of the Right. I fear they may have actually 'missed the bus' when they might have scored points that could have resounded until next November. I think it's because those in power who represent the Left are largely co-opted by the very demons they claim to be railing against. I think We (the People) should move both the Senate and the Congress into adjascent strip malls at the geographic center of Kansas. All members will have their heads shaved and forfeit all salary to the IRS. They can survive on their invesments and the many many perks and incentives provided by lobbiests. They can keep the health care but all meals will be provided by the local equivalent of Perkins or Denny's and/or any buffet under $8.99. I could go on, but you already know that... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
theprotester Posted October 10, 2011 Share Posted October 10, 2011 I think you guys are confused about what you want. You want individuals to be the ones that benefit? But if they benefit too much and earn too much money, they should then start to give it to the state? Or to other people? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
theprotester Posted October 10, 2011 Share Posted October 10, 2011 Fair call that you are not a part of the movement. Sounded like you were defending their demands. I don't understand how open borders could every possibly be a good thing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
theprotester Posted October 10, 2011 Share Posted October 10, 2011 Are you sure you're Australian? I don't agree with you, but enjoy the discussion. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
theprotester Posted October 10, 2011 Share Posted October 10, 2011 From your article; Illegal immigrants place no demands on welfare ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MOOGLE? Posted October 10, 2011 Share Posted October 10, 2011 ok wait... so... the protest and its demands mirrors well established political parties and uses this fact to prove a point? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fist 666 Posted October 10, 2011 Share Posted October 10, 2011 i'm confused, which political party mirrors the grievances of OCCUPY? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shai Posted October 10, 2011 Share Posted October 10, 2011 Well, today's the day. And it's raining. I'm doing what I do to get other people motivated to do something as well. Failing that, I just like to fuck shit up. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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