Jump to content

Occupy Wall Street


ILOTSMYBRAIN

Recommended Posts

As I understood it early on (last September?) OWS was primarily about corporate greed and a little bit about confronting class issues.

 

The funny thing is that no one realized that tents and consensus based governance aren't the answer, at least in the short term. It's still early on yet but there's a lot of unlearning left if people really mean to live differently...it's easy to see here on 12 oz, since I'm a libertarian but I also know that I don't have to fuck people over to survive or live free...oh well, I guess I don't represent the stereotype.

 

So should we add polarization to that list? Seems like something worth discussion.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

This forum is supported by the 12ozProphet Shop, so go buy a shirt and help support!
This forum is brought to you by the 12ozProphet Shop.
This forum is brought to you by the 12oz Shop.
  • Replies 963
  • Created
  • Last Reply

Top Posters In This Topic

Top Posters In This Topic

Posted Images

AOD, you went there. You took a neat little discussion about the pros and cons of lobbying/corporate personhood and went all crossfire on crossfire. I get what you're trying to say "if we didnt have a government then there would be no congressmen to lobby to." But think for a second how abstract and hard that argument is to win compared to just weighing the pros and cons of lobbying. Think damnit, think!

 

Should we start a libertarian thread? Or is that what ron paul thread is? I feel like this is getting away from Occupy Wallstreet.

 

 

Frank I hope you see the irony in posting, "cool story bro" in response to me saying you're all about making posts that lack substance. God you're dumb.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

AOD, you went there. You took a neat little discussion about the pros and cons of lobbying/corporate personhood and went all crossfire on crossfire. I get what you're trying to say "if we didnt have a government then there would be no congressmen to lobby to." But think for a second how abstract and hard that argument is to win compared to just weighing the pros and cons of lobbying. Think damnit, think!

 

Should we start a libertarian thread? Or is that what ron paul thread is? I feel like this is getting away from Occupy Wallstreet.

 

 

Frank I hope you see the irony in posting, "cool story bro" in response to me saying you're all about making posts that lack substance. God you're dumb.

 

 

i have thought about it and that is why i have come to the conclusion that even if the federal government were reduced to constitutional boundaries, (not your characterization of having no govt) there is nothing to lobby.

thinking that a few more laws can eliminate any influence on the biggest most powerful coercive organization on earth that has the power to do anything is naive at best. if the corporations have all this power and control the government, how can you control the corporations with government?

 

sure i went crossfire on crossfire.

if we have people presenting opposing views in the ron paul thread, you are going to get opposing views in the OWS thread. if RP people are defending positions in that thread, you should be prepared to defend OWS type positions in this thread.

just sayin

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • 2 weeks later...

Stop bickering. Everyone knows the government maintains class divisions in society, duh. People who own tons of capital created the government to protect their property from jealous leeches (like the 99%). Haven't you fuckers ever read Adam Smith? He stated,

 

"as the necessity of civil government gradually grows up with the acquisition of valuable property, so the principal causes which naturally introduce subordination gradually grow up with the growth of that valuable property ... Wherever there is great property there is great inequality. For one very rich man there must be at least five hundred poor, and the affluence of the few supposes the indigence of the many. The affluence of the rich excites the indignation of the poor, who are often both driven by want, and prompted by envy, to invade his possessions ... The appropriation of herds and flocks which introduced an inequality of fortune was that which first gave rise to regular government. Till there be property there can be no government, the very end of which is to secure wealth, and to defend the rich from the poor."

 

 

 

In related news, Occupy protesters take a symbolic swipe at the bourgeoisie in San Francisco. An abandoned hotel gets occupied and a Bentley/Lamborghini dealership gets trashed! The anonymous communique reads:

 

 

http://www.indybay.org/newsitems/2012/01/22/18705350.php

 

January 20th - SF

 

The nerve of these rich motherfuckers is unbelievable. Their Lamborghini/Bentley dealership, sitting a block away from one of the highest concentrations of poverty and despair on the west coast, clearly demonstrates their contempt for us. Of course we smashed their fucking windows, just like we destroyed the property of wells fargo and bank of america: to challenge their arrogance is to teach them to fear us.

 

To everyone who shut down banks in the morning, to the building occupiers, to the rebels who threw bricks at the police when we tried to break their line; we all comprise the force that will soon strangle the social order that suffocates us, burying it once and for all.

 

[/Quote]

 

Those fucking bastards. LONG LIVE THE 1%. INDUSTRIAL MAGNATES AND BANKERS UNITE!!!!

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Saw this go down yesterday and read this today. Interesting times...

 

There's a demo happening in Oakland this weekend...if anyone locally is interested in attending I think things kick off around noon Saturday at the Plaza (14th and Broadway).

 

Now that I've taken a nice long break from everything I'm ready to get back into the mix. Let's see where things go.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

this[/url] today. Interesting times...

 

There's a demo happening in Oakland this weekend...if anyone locally is interested in attending I think things kick off around noon Saturday at the Plaza (14th and Broadway).

 

Now that I've taken a nice long break from everything I'm ready to get back into the mix. Let's see where things go.

 

Yo Shai, did you go to this?

 

 

 

From Bay of Rage:

 

Aiyup4GCAAAbSP6.png_large.png

 

An enormous banner reading “Occupy Oakland — Fuck the Police” was unfurled at the corner of 14th and Broadway, in preparation for the first of a weekly series of marches against the police and their repression against the Oakland Commune. From the hours of 7 to 9 pm on Saturday, January 7th, the crowd kept growing – notably different than many of the largely white, activist groups that have become so predominant in the Occupy movement. This had a completely different character: a rowdy, largely young group of people pissed off about the recent police repression. The police were taking this night more seriously than other demos – whether it was because the night was the 3rd anniversary of the Oscar Grant Rebellion or simply because they knew that the pigs’ current campaign of harassment and arrests was fostering a culture of resistance and anger against them. All evening there were unmarked SUVs full of Oakland police cruising around the downtown area, as well as sheriffs and motorcycle pigs hanging around the periphery of 14th and Broadway.

The energy built up with chants, heckling of the cops standing in lines across the street, and a ferocious freestyle session. Soon after 9, the group flooded into the street, heading south on Broadway. Banners declared “Better to die on your feet than live on your knees”, “Not gay as in happy, but queer as in fuck OPD” and “Police nowhere, liberation everywhere”. People donned masks as we neared the OPD headquarters, Wiley Manuel Courthouse and Glenn Dyer detention center on 7th St. Upon arrival, it was clear the pigs weren’t going to allow a fireworks show like the New Year’s Eve noise demo. Up to 50 pigs were stationed in one-deep lines, directly in front of their headquarters, with more pigs down Washington Street defending their vehicle lot, and others near Clay St. Judging by their arrangement, they were ready to surround and arrest us, to kettle the confrontational crowd. The mood was strange, quiet as we stood before the OPD’s fortress. The gap between the rage we wanted to unleash on the police and the reality of our suddenly indecisive crowd facing off a line of armed cops was unsettling. Our lack of confidence, of memory of overt collective resistance weighed heavy on us that moment. We milled in the street, someone shoved a shopping cart towards the cops. A few bottles were thrown. The hostility towards the police was too diffuse and they were too prepared in their defensive position for the immediate situation to escalate in a way that could benefit us.

 

Soon the decision was made to stay mobile, and we headed back to Broadway. The crowd took a left, and as we headed up the street several black-clad hooligans attacked two police cars that were stopped on the street, slashing their tires, and bottles were thrown at the pigs once more. At this point the divide in the crowd became evident — with OakFoSho who livestreams many Occupy Oakland demonstrations shouting “I wish I could catch the motherfuckers who are throwing shit on film”, and a few others decrying the bottle throwers. While militant tactics are not above critique (and there’s definitely much tactical learning and evolution to be done), threatening or filming people fighting back against the police is doing the pigs’ work for them.

 

ftpsign.jpg

 

Despite the unclear intentions of the group as a whole, some agitated for the march to turn towards the cop shop again, and ultimately it took a left on 9th Street and headed back to Washington. Strolling among the holiday-light bedazzled trees of the Oldtown commercial district, the chants of “Kill Pigs” and “A.C.A.B — all cops are bastards” lent a dissonant affect to the moment. Yuppies gawked from the upscale bars and restaurants as the active minority of a discontent populace streamed past them. We can only hope they enjoyed the sound of the Starbucks plate glass window shattering as much as we did. A few blocks down a Wells Fargo received an equally warm embrace. Shortly after that we passed a KTVU news van. It was swarmed by several people, some puncturing the tires, some scrawling a circle-A on the façade and others tearing the cables from the exposed switch board. This gesture should illuminate our relationship towards the media – they will never be our allies, we are not interested in pandering to them. This is war, and they are on the wrong side.

 

On this second approach, riot cops had formed a line blocking the way down Washington to the court. This was their technique in the early days of Occupy Oakland, when there was often almost no police presence at marches, until they approached 7th and Washington. But at this point we had more momentum than before, there was no way we would simply turn back. The “Fuck the Police” banner-carriers stepped up directly to the line, behind them a small bonfire was lit, and people let fly more bottles. But even though the energy had been high, there was no solid black bloc and those who were more confrontational were vulnerable to identification. Soon, the cops advanced, pushing the banner back and stomping out the fire. After they advanced, they began clearly pointing out and shining lights at those they wanted to target for arrest. Whether because of the fire or having sensed the tactical weakness of the group, the pigs suddenly charged.

 

ftpfire.jpg

 

It was a flurry of huge men moving faster than one would think possible. They clearly went after specific individuals, as well as those who were trampled or fell behind. They beat a few people badly with batons, and shot others with rubber bullets and bean bags that left a colored mark on clothing. The crowd was generally pushed north, and many escaped, but a group was kettled on 9th Street between Washington and Broadway. This kettle was eventually given a dispersal order and allowed to leave, although there was another police charge as people were walking north on Broadway. After this, the night ended uneventfully, though there were still cops posted up en masse at the North end of the plaza for some time. 6 people were arrested, 3 of whom were released without charges, and one of whom who is facing five felonies and one misdemeanor. Saturday night was a change of tactics for the OPD. In keeping with the intensifying direct repression of the Oakland Commune, this was the first time they had relied on snatching and kettling. Their sudden charges also seemed out of character, as though our stubborn resistance enraged or unnerved them. The OPD also tailed one person as they were leaving the march, and pulled them over to harass and search them.

 

The apparatus of the police is what holds us back from so many of our dreams. It is only logical that occupiers and other rebels have made a habit of marching between the plaza and the bastion of law and order: the former a hotbed of subversive conversation and anti-capitalist scheming, the latter the organizational center of a reactionary, murderous force and a node in the network of confinement and criminalization. By establishing a circulation between the radical social center of our city and the compound where the attack on that dangerous sociality is staged, the occupation has expanded on territorial battles that were already present in Oakland. In dead urban space, Occupy Oakland created a flourishing social space that was — is — antagonistic to the city’s control. While OPD asserts their sovereignty in East Oakland by murdering and beating people of color, in downtown they do it with tear gas and rubber bullets.

 

tumblr_lxh0ngegcx1r3qtlq.jpg

 

But while it is useful to encroach on the pigs’ territory as much as we can, there’s a danger of falling into an unthinking pattern. 7th and Washington isn’t the only place that crystallizes the relationship of power between us and the state — what we’re up against not only goes far beyond those buildings, it’s more than the police. It remains to be seen if these weekly marches will become something else entirely or fizzle out, but either way we need to think through our tactics and strategies. We cannot take on a fully armed counter-insurgency force directly. If we want to keep our commune alive in the streets and foster rebellion in the metropolis of the Bay Area, it will take some serious discipline and creativity. Our demonstrations must shift in form and content, and be able to adapt to contemporary circumstances. The time has already come to attack what represses us, seize what we need, and strike in unexpected ways. If we cannot provide for ourselves and create new forms of living in Oscar Grant Plaza, we will do it elsewhere. Now that we have tasted the joy of gathering defiantly in the open air and molding our own worlds, we can’t go back. In the words of some Spanish comrades, “the greatest violence would be returning to normality”. The police intend to enforce that normality. We, however, refuse to accept it, and wager instead on the rebels of Oakland.

 

Long live the Oakland Commune, freedom to our comrades and all prisoners!

 

Here is some footage of the January 7th demonstration

Link to comment
Share on other sites

And then there's this one from puget sound anarchists:

 

 

[note: I would reccommend that you visit the site for flicks, they have awesome fuckin' flicks of the @team with torches lined up against the police line]

 

On Saturday, January 14th, approximately one hundred people gathered at 23rd Avenue and Union in Seattle's Central District. This corner was once the site of a police substation that was attacked numerous times until it ceased operation in mid 2011. We fondly remembered the last anarchist demonstration that had left from this point in 2010, on the night of the verdict against Oscar Grant's murderer.

 

This march, however, was called for by members of Occupy Seattle demanding the resignation of SPD Chief John Diaz. Another call-out asked for anarchists to attend the march offering up a critique of police reform.

 

The anarchist presence was small at this demonstration, but the frustration caused by standing in the square and listening to people talk on the bullhorns of justice and reform for over an hour in the cold had our small group riled up. As the sun started to set and the temperature dropped into the 30s, we were elated to see the rally finally teeter from a platform calling for better-trained cops into shouts of 'get into the fucking

 

A banner was seen with the words: "Solidarity with Oakland (A) Fuck the Cops," and fliers were handed out calling attention to our friends who had participated in the January 7th 'Fuck OPD' march in Oakland. After Oakland cops were paint-bombed, cruiser windows mashed, a news van attacked and several small fires lit, one person was hit in the head by cops and booked on a number of charges. The arrestee's bail was initially set at $595,000, based on the claim that he had a quarter-stick of dynamite, and then lowered to $250,000 at arraignment.

 

Much like Amelia Nicol’s case in Denver, this move smacks of an attempt by the courts and the cops to neutralize the embers that have spewn from the Oakland Commune. But instead of relinquishing Oscar Grant Plaza and the momentum that has been building, weekly Saturday demonstrations are now taking place in Oakland against the OPD.

 

The same forces have tried to quell anti-police sentiment in Seattle, but an eerie memory of the Winter of 2011 was stirred. Days before the march, federal prosecutors announced that they would not charge Ian Birk, the former SPD cop who murdered John T. Williams on August 30, 2010. Four other people were murdered that same week by Washington cops -- many by ‘less lethal’ weapons like tasers -- and anarchists in the Puget Sound came with a scathing critique of police accountability and the justice system that maintains their social control. Though the mainstream media will never be an ally, this Seattle Times article departs from the rhetoric of last winter which sought to prop up the police story of probable cause in Birk's shooting:

 

"Williams’ shooting resulted in a public outrage and was pivotal in uniting community groups to demand accountability from the department. There had been earlier videotaped incidents — an officer slugging a teenage jaywalker, for instance — but none reverberated in the community like the patrol-car dash-cam video of Williams ambling across the intersection in front of Birk’s car, a pocket knife and board in his hands. Birk was seen crossing in front of the car toward Williams, his weapon drawn, and then a series of shots a few seconds later. Native American and civil rights groups protested the shooting. The department’s credibility was further damaged when it had to withdraw a statement made at the scene that Williams had 'advanced on the officer.'"

 

Now that the Department of Justice's investigation has concluded and found several cases of excessive force, the media wastes no time in chastising the SPD. In response, the city and police have already organized a community forum to discuss officer training and the City's Race and Social Justice initiative. It is important that this be revealed for exactly what it is: a public relations attempt to assuage the liberal public that frets over the myth of 'racial and social justice'. In 2011, we burnt many bridges but also found many friends.

 

----

 

Despite the rumor that cops would force us onto the sidewalk, agitated individuals pushed past those waiting for the cross signal and into the streets. The shivering mass of people followed and marched north up 23rd avenue chanting 'The revolution has begun / They say more cops! We say none!' and 'Cops and bankers, we don’t need em! / All we want is total freedom!'. Bikes and graffiti writers flanked the crowd and media scurried ahead of the banners, trying to take sensational photos of the lit flares and black masks. At a major intersection, a banner reading 'ACAB' backed with 'All your base are belong to no one! (A)' was hoisted above the street. The crowd cheered as it flapped in the cold and surged forward once more.

 

The march turned southwest onto Madison and trash cans, construction signs and dumpsters were rolled into the street. Unlike the anti-police demos of early 2011, many of the marchers around joined in, kicking over signs and carrying a couch into on-coming traffic lanes. Uniformed police were nowhere to be seen amongst the merriment, but Peace and Safety vultures from Occupy Seattle tried to push dumpsters back into the alleys, decrying the redecoration as 'distracting' from the issue of the police. Others threw fliers into the doors of the co-op and toppled potted trees outside a yuppie furniture store, and yes, even a newspaper box or two was thrown.

 

A shout rippled through the crowd as one person skateboarded past with a torch; several more were handed out in remembrance of those murdered by the police. While some torchbearers chanted 'Justice for Sean Bell, Justice for John T, Justice for Oscar' others yelled for 'vengeance.' The glow of fire hovered overhead as the march turned down Pine and finally to the police barricades surrounding the East Precinct. Traffic had been diverted for several blocks since 4 p.m., and firetrucks were stationed nearby.

 

Many people scattered off into the night, while others stayed and argued with the cops lining the barricades. No arrests or injuries were reported but perhaps more important is the giddy feeling that lingers. The first signs of snow in Seattle dominate the news today, but another demonstration has already been called for on Monday, January 16th, leaving the recently evicted Turritopsis Nutricula squat and joining the Seattle MLK march. To the friends we have made in Seattle and our comrades in the Oakland Commune, let's warm by the hearth of another fiery year.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

No, I wasn't there. I have some other stuff going on I'll discuss in another thread that's got me a little sidetracked at the moment.

 

I'm sure my friends were involved with that action but the Bay Rage idiots are almost as bad as the cops as far as advocating violence as a solution to what's wrong here. So fuck them.

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

No, I wasn't there. I have some other stuff going on I'll discuss in another thread that's got me a little sidetracked at the moment.

 

I'm sure my friends were involved with that action but the Bay Rage idiots are almost as bad as the cops as far as advocating violence as a solution to what's wrong here. So fuck them.

 

Not really the solution to the problems (I don't think there's going to be a silver bullet) more of a "tactic-building". The scarcity in our society is maintained by widespread violence, I'm not too sure there is going to be any way to change things without at least a minor element of violence.

 

I recommend, "Pacifism as Pathology" by Ward Churchill or "How Non-Violence Protects the State" by Peter Gelderloos. You can probably find em fo free on the interwebzzz such as a site like http://www.zine-library.info

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I'll just stick to what I've been doing and hope for the best, but thanks for the suggestions.

 

I don't live a 100% activist lifestyle so it's a little hard for me to buy into certain things. It's not that I'm against them in principle but I would rather figure out what I have to do on my own...like, if anyone comes after me physically I just deal with it. I don't need advice, just a lookout and short term memory loss.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Is it too much to ask for OccupyOrlando to get a couple articulate protesters who actually KNOW what they're talking about? I mean like someone who not only understands the problem, but also has legislative suggestions toward solutions.

 

Also, I think that this year I'm going to wire all my savings and income into an offshore bank account, have the money laundered and transferred back to me while placing all my debts on a seperate entity then disowning said entity and claiming that I have no affiliation with it, thus I have no affiliation with the debt.

If corporations are people too, why can't I play by the same economic rules that they can?

 

 

 

By the way, if you're unemployed, I heard that Romney makes like 300 g's for public speaking. If you make less than 300,000 a week, you're in the wrong business. I mean come on, how hard can it be when he gets paid for flip-flopping like sandals on the beach?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Interesting fact: we're at our highest GDP in history, yet still around 4-5 % above natural unemployment (meaning real unemployment is about 8.5%) Where are all the jobs? they're going to machines. The only real solution is to either move or to specialize in a different trade. We need to encourage people to go back to school, and all the conservatives want to offer tax breaks to the corporations who own the private interest that funds their campaigns and buys congressional votes. How the fuck is offering a tax break to someone who just replaced 300 workers with machines who work virtually for free going to incentivize them to hire more workers?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Don't look too hard at GDP for economic growth. GDP measures a lot of things but not how people are doing or if things are actually are selling. Among random things like estimated housing prices (which im not sure but could be severely inflated) It sums up the prices of things manufactured, as opposed to things sold.

 

And I'm not sure where you got your unemployment numbers but they're wrong. Reported unemployment is above 8.5% which doesn't include people who've given up entirely on looking for work.

 

http://www.npr.org/blogs/money/2011/12/01/143016866/unemployment-falls-to-8-6-percent

http://www.npr.org/blogs/thetwo-way/2011/12/02/143042965/unemployment-drops-to-8-6-percent-120-000-jobs-added

 

Everything else you said is about right. Blue collar work has been dying for the last 40 years. If you live in a blue collar town that once thrived from mining or factory work, you're going to need to have at least an AA from a city college to even get a job. That a huge leap in requirements from once not needing even a highschool education, social skills, anger management, or a 4th grade level of literacy.

 

Think about that: Twenty years ago you could own a house, a boat, a car, plenty of beer money, get into bar fights every night and not even know how to read. Now you need to know how to use a computer or understand CNC machines.

 

That's why occupy protests lack the command of language and a firm grasp of the situation, because they're the progeny of a dying breed.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Whew....managed to get out of that unscathed...

 

http://www.insidebayarea.com/oakland-tribune/ci_19843263

 

Occupy_Oakland.sJPG_800_450_0_95_1_50_50.sJPG?1327874291

 

OAKLAND -- Occupy Oakland protesters broke into City Hall, stole an American flag from the City Council chamber and set it on fire Saturday night, punctuating a wild day in which police deployed tear gas, arrested more than 400 marchers and dodged hurling objects.

 

Demonstrators spent the day trying to break into a convention center and temporarily occupying City Hall and a YMCA, all the while snaking around lines of riot-clad police periodically shooting bean bag projectiles, among other uses of nonlethal force.

 

Saturday marked the first major clashes between protesters and police since November and left three officers with minor injuries, as protesters threw bottles, metal pipes, rocks, spray cans and "improvised explosive devices," police said.

 

Late Saturday, paramedics wheeled a pregnant protester away from Frank H. Ogawa Plaza after witnesses said she was hit in the kidney by a police baton. She yelled: "Police did this to me!"

 

Oakland Mayor Jean Quan spoke moments after the City Hall invasion, saying the city would ask for "stay away" orders against many of the protesters who have repeatedly been arrested in Oakland.

 

"This particular faction of Occupy ... they're very violent and I'm going to be asking for a lot more mutual aid," Quan said, adding that the weekly marches prevent the city's police force from patrolling other parts of Oakland. "They are hurting the neighborhoods by continuing to do this on Saturday nights."

 

Oakland police had to ignore 200 lower priority calls for service Saturday night, more than the normal 60 because resources were tied up with the Occupy protests, Sgt. Christopher Bolton said.

 

The first large skirmish of the day took place on the front steps of the Oakland Museum of California. Police arrested 19 marchers during that confrontation.

 

Later, about 100 protesters were arrested after police ordered them to disperse at the YMCA on Broadway, police said.

 

The rest of the marchers headed to City Hall, broke into the building and left with at least two American flags, which were quickly burned. Police regained control of the building, arrested more and guarded the trashed lobby.

 

The events followed a week where Occupy Oakland organizers announced plans to take over a vacant building to create the movement's headquarters, with plans for a two-day party. Police and city officials vowed not to allow it.

 

In what has become a weekly march, about 250 protesters gathered around noon at Frank H. Ogawa Plaza for a rally. At 1:30 p.m., the group began marching with a crowd of about 450 protesters. Forty-five minutes later, some of the marchers entered the campus of Laney College, city officials said.

That was when police first fired tear gas, a witness said.

 

At 2:50 p.m., marchers began tearing down perimeter fences around the vacant Henry J. Kaiser Convention Center, city officials said. Police declared an unlawful assembly and fired more tear gas. Witnesses said police fired rubber bullets after protesters began hurling items at them.

 

Sixteen of the protesters were arrested in that confrontation at 10th and Oak streets, mostly for failure to disperse and assaulting a police officer. The three other arrests were scattered along the march route, a police source said.

 

The most seriously injured officer received a cut to his face that required stitches after a protester hit him with a bicycle. The other two injured officers received bruises, and one injured his hand, the police source said.

 

Police closed numerous streets around the convention center. Protesters vandalized three private vehicles, police said.

 

"Their intent is to commit vandalism and cause problems," interim police Chief Howard Jordan said of the protesters. "Their intent is not to be peaceful."

 

By 4 p.m., most of the Occupy crowd, which had grown to about 500, returned to Frank H. Ogawa Plaza. After regrouping, the marchers headed out again and congregated at the Oakland YMCA.

 

About 6:30 p.m., police ordered protesters to disperse and those who remained were arrested, with some hiding in the YMCA building. As police processed the 100 or so arrested protesters, the rest of the demonstrators headed to City Hall, where they broke into the lobby.

 

The police department received heavy criticism late last year for breaking up earlier protests, including from the mayor. Earlier this month, a court-appointed monitor submitted a report to a federal judge that included "serious concerns" about the department's handling of the Occupy protests.

 

Oakland police received mutual aid throughout the day from the Alameda County Sheriff's Office and city police, including Fremont, Hayward, Berkeley, Pleasanton, Union City and Newark.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Don't look too hard at GDP for economic growth. GDP measures a lot of things but not how people are doing or if things are actually are selling. Among random things like estimated housing prices (which im not sure but could be severely inflated) It sums up the prices of things manufactured, as opposed to things sold.

 

And I'm not sure where you got your unemployment numbers but they're wrong. Reported unemployment is above 8.5% which doesn't include people who've given up entirely on looking for work.

 

http://www.npr.org/blogs/money/2011/12/01/143016866/unemployment-falls-to-8-6-percent

http://www.npr.org/blogs/thetwo-way/2011/12/02/143042965/unemployment-drops-to-8-6-percent-120-000-jobs-added

 

Everything else you said is about right. Blue collar work has been dying for the last 40 years. If you live in a blue collar town that once thrived from mining or factory work, you're going to need to have at least an AA from a city college to even get a job. That a huge leap in requirements from once not needing even a highschool education, social skills, anger management, or a 4th grade level of literacy.

 

Think about that: Twenty years ago you could own a house, a boat, a car, plenty of beer money, get into bar fights every night and not even know how to read. Now you need to know how to use a computer or understand CNC machines.

 

That's why occupy protests lack the command of language and a firm grasp of the situation, because they're the progeny of a dying breed.

 

 

honestly some of the stuff in here about gdp i agree with.

 

on another angle, the gdp is also bs as it includes government spending in it.

 

also, shadow stats is saying unemployment, using the way unemployment USED to be calculated, before they manipulated it to reflect more favorable numbers for the government, its upwards of 19-23%.

that isnt growth, that is just redistributed income. governments dont spend, they waste. their projects are all economic black holes.

so if government is consuming 40% of the gdp, and it consumes 50% the next year, there is no growth, just waste. govt spending, borrowing and printing just means that private sector is shrinking.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Only just now?

 

I really hoped it would continue in the same spirit as Occupy wallstreet and assumed whenever there was a bottle thrown at a cop or a port shut down it was done with the best of intentions. Occupy Wallstreet was clever in selecting zucotti park because it was a legal grey area that they could use to create something new. When Occupy Oakland started squatting in people's houses because they figured nobody would mind because they were uninhabited, that in spirit is completely different.

 

Everything occupy wallstreet did was to gain popular support from everyone in america. Everything occupy oakland did was for a small elitist group of bluecollar workers and anarchists.

 

Since my family's lived there for over 150 years, Oakland is the closest ive come to a motherland. We like to rewrite history to include important civil rights movements in the 60's and 70's but exclude the largest population of pimps, hoes, and violent idealist extremists anywhere in the us around the same time. And once again Oakland has acted in selfish interest while flying the flag of civil disobedience. And once again im in total denial about it and think Oakland has a proud history and Occupy Oakland should be part of it.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Aside from the City Hall thing about 150% of the blame for Saturday can be placed on the cops. And the mayor.

 

This might put things in perspective-

 

http://newsone.com/nation/associatedpress3/oakland-police-face-federal-takeover-due-to-excessive-force/

 

Oakland Police Face Federal Takeover Due To Excessive Force

 

SAN FRANCISCO — Mayor Jean Quan vowed Wednesday to quickly reform the scandal-plagued Oakland Police Department after a frustrated judge threatened a federal takeover if it fails to quickly make good on changes agreed to nine years ago.

 

U.S. District Judge Thelton Henderson said he “remains in disbelief” that the department has failed to adopt the reforms.

 

Henderson’s frustration with the pace of improvements was evident throughout a scathing five-page ruling issued Tuesday.

 

“This department finds itself woefully behind its peers around the state and nation,” he wrote.

 

In his ruling, Henderson increased the oversight authority of a court-appointed monitor. Oakland Police Chief Howard Jordan must now consult with the monitor before making important department decisions such as promoting and disciplining officers and changing policing policy and tactics.

 

Henderson ordered court hearings if city officials disagreed with the monitor’s recommendations.

 

Quan and Jordan said a federal takeover wouldn’t be necessary because Oakland’s new leadership has made compliance with the settlement a priority.

 

“We believe that the expertise of the monitor, coupled with the new leadership in the Police Department and the city administrator’s (office) and my commitment to further incorporate the requirements of the negotiated settlement agreement into OPD’s culture, will move Oakland into compliance as quickly as possible,” Quan said in a prepared statement.

 

The mayor, police chief, city manager and city attorney have all been in their posts for less than two years.

 

“The Oakland Police Department belongs to the community,” Jordan said. “The path forward will be guided by an actionable plan.”

 

Henderson said he will consider proceedings to appoint a federal receiver to run the department if the monitor submits a report this summer showing little improvement.

 

The judge appointed a monitor in 2003 to ensure the city complied with terms of a $10.5 million settlement of a lawsuit filed by victims of a notorious group of police officers known as “The Riders.”

 

The group was accused of beating and framing suspects in the West Oakland area for years. One officer was acquitted at trial and criminal charges against two former officers were dismissed after two trials ended in hung juries. A fourth former officer remains a fugitive who disappeared after charged were filed in 2000.

 

The current monitor, Robert Warshaw, was appointed in 2010 and oversees the settlement with a staff of seven people.

 

The settlement included 51 specific reforms the department agreed to make within five years. Henderson noted Tuesday that he’s extended the compliance deadline by years to little effect.

 

“Defendants have achieved full compliance with just over half of those tasks and, worse yet, have fallen in and out of compliance on some tasks, thus indicating a lack of sustainability,” Henderson wrote. “The outstanding tasks are not minor formalities; instead, they are significant areas that go to the heart of any police department, including how internal affairs investigations are completed, how officers are supervised, and the use and reporting of force.”

 

The judge was responding to a monitor’s report submitted earlier this month that included “serious concerns” about the department’s handling of the so-called Occupy Oakland protests. The monitor told the judge that officers’ actions during the Occupy protests put even the small improvements made by the department in jeopardy.

 

“We were, in some instances, satisfied with the performance of the department; yet in others, we were thoroughly dismayed by what we observed,” Warshaw wrote. “I cannot overstate our concern that although progress on compliance has been slow, even those advancements may have been put in doubt in the face of these events.”

 

The monitor said the department’s response to the Occupy protests will help determine whether police are making progress.

 

The mayor and police chief announced in December they were hiring an independent investigator to evaluate claims police used excessive force and improper tactics responding to the protests, which included several uses of tear gas, rubber bullets and “flash-bang” grenades on protesters.

 

One protester was hospitalized after being hit in the head with a flash grenade. At least one officer was demoted from lieutenant to sergeant for failing to report a subordinate blacking out his name tag.

 

Warshaw promised the judge a more in-depth analysis of the Occupy protests when he submits his next report sometime in July. Henderson said the results of that report may prompt him to take the extremely rare step of placing the department in a federal receivership, stripping Oakland of control of its police.

 

Henderson took the same extraordinary step with the California Department of Corrections and Rehabilitation’s medical health care system. A receiver was appointed in 2006 to run the prison department’s health care system after Henderson said CDCR failed to comply with a settlement agreement to provide adequate care to inmates. The court-appointed receiver, J. Clark Kelso, remains in charge of the health care system.

 

The mayor conceded Oakland police were moving too slowly to reform the department. But Quan said she and the new leaders will move Oakland into compliance as quickly as possible.

 

However, as the court has explained time and time again, words and promises are not enough, Henderson said.

 

“Indeed, each time a previous new mayor or city administrator or chief of police has come on board, the court was reassured that the individual was strongly committed to reforming the Oakland Police Department, and that a change in administration and leadership was all that was necessary to push the city into full compliance,” the judge wrote.

 

------------------------

 

They're still processing people as of 11 pm tonight. Not booking, processing. As in just getting them placed in the jails.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Meanwhile people are being robbed, raped, murdered and kidnapped.

 

Fuck em, love what you guys are doing out there Shai.

You and the violent sector which many might frown upon, but I see simply as a response.

Its sad, but understandable why people have to sit by and watch police club and beat people but there gets to a point where some kind of karmatic life honor shit comes into play.

 

Here in Rva when the cops took down our version of this occupation movement alot of people got arrested and beat for no reason, but at one point when 3 male officers began beating a teenage girl the crowd finally had enough, charged the officers and one got laid the fuck out before retreating.

 

I hope this continues to grow, the social impact on the city I feel will show in time.

The war of the flea comrades, attrition at its best.

 

Good luck to all of those on the front line.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I see it as the worst thing they could've possibly done. Occupy garnered a whole lot more respect, media attention and community support by being nonviolent and understanding that community support is reciprocal. Without that reciprocity communication breaks down and Occupy no longer represents 99%, or even 20% of the population.

 

Occupy Wallstreet: Pointing fingers at bad leadership for the poor state of the economy, and focused on showing how the people are better off running the government.

 

Occupy Oakland: Selfishly motived, acting violently and inappropriately without any thought to the economy or unemployment, and simply capitalizing on liberal guilt for the lower class. Instead of pointing fingers at bad leaders they have proven not only that the people can't govern themselves but that they're antisocial, violent, and not surprisingly can't get a job. They've done just as much to validate Jean Quan's stance on Occupy as to invalidate her. Seriously who thinks breaking into city hall or people's "unused" private property looks bad for Jean Quan?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I did mention that it was the cops that turned Saturday into a shit show, right? Beyond that, some people reacted by getting pissed off and doing whatever they wanted....that's the double-edged sword of autonomous action.

 

Soup, for someone who's been around as long as you claim to be you really ought to know by now that the problems with Oakland are endemic and that people have been patient in waiting for some kind of action to be taken with regards to the police department and responsible redevelopment...but it's clearly not going to happen on its own.

 

And I'm not sure it will happen if people go out and march and break shit, but speaking as an occasional vandal sometimes that feels good.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

That's exactly the mentality I'm talking about. The cops forced us to throw bottles at their heads. The cops evicted us from the park so they forced us to break into people's property and claim it for our own. The cops raided the park and forced us to break into city hall and burn the american flag....

 

 

And i dont have any stories of my great grandparents being mistreated by Oakland PD. I have stories of my great grandparents "rolling bums" as teenagers and finding one dead. Or opening a laundromat and running a casino out of the back. Or having my grandma as a teenager coming home after highschool and serving drinks to gamblers who tried to molest her and her friends on a daily basis and great grandpa being totally cool with it.

 

Oakland has always been a rough-and-tumble town you make your money, do your time in and get the fuck out of when you can. From what I've seen Oakland PD isn't any worse than any other police department. They're crooked, and one time talked me out of reporting a guy beating my car with a pipe while I was in it because I wasn't 100% sure if I could pick him out of a lineup, but that's the kind of common practice cops do to fudge numbers and make it seem as if crime's lower than it is. No amount of attacking cops in Oakland's gonna change that. Jean Quan however is fucking crazy.

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.


×
×
  • Create New...