christo-f Posted February 1, 2011 Share Posted February 1, 2011 Nobody grips the wheel. unchartered waters, my friends. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ILOTSMYBRAIN Posted February 1, 2011 Share Posted February 1, 2011 Stop being vague mother fucker, details sir, details. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
christo-f Posted February 1, 2011 Share Posted February 1, 2011 Mate, they actually are the details. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ILOTSMYBRAIN Posted February 1, 2011 Share Posted February 1, 2011 I guess I am as dumb as you thought I was. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Qawee Posted February 2, 2011 Share Posted February 2, 2011 Stop being vague mother fucker, details sir, details. There is no leadership of the revolt in Egypt right now, thus you don't know whats going to come of it. The people protesting aren't a monolithic bloc, you have people from all different political backgrounds, so after Mubarak is out, then you're going to have these different groups vying for power. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
christo-f Posted February 2, 2011 Share Posted February 2, 2011 That's what the Iranian revolution looked like before Khomeini walked in to Tehran in 79. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
!@#$% Posted February 2, 2011 Share Posted February 2, 2011 i'm not sure the iranian revolution was this peaceful. and the US president definitely was not clearly on the side of the protesters. just sayin, i think it's a bit of an oversimplification to say it's like something else. the egyptian people do not seem to overwhelmingly support an islamic govt either, there's plenty in favor of something secular. there has been a coalition formed out of the opposition as well, they were able to point to el baradei as speaker (not leader) and form a list of demands. ..i'm anxiously watching todays events unfold. could be the crux. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MAR Posted February 2, 2011 Share Posted February 2, 2011 the egyptian people do not seem to overwhelmingly support an islamic govt either, there's plenty in favor of something secular. This is key, but I'm not sure there is a strong enough opposing coalition to be able to keep the Muslim Brotherhood from taking over. Mubarak has said he's stepping down in September but I'm not sure that's going to calm the situation. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MayorMeanBeans Posted February 2, 2011 Share Posted February 2, 2011 Apparently Anderson Cooper got punched in the head a bunch of times.... at least the violence has accomplished some good. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
!@#$% Posted February 2, 2011 Share Posted February 2, 2011 haha damn menino, i think anderson is alright. you're funny though. anyone actually in touch with people in Tahrir square? i am getting updates about people needing medical supplies and a lost child. let me know and i'll repost in here if it'll actually reach someone. MAR, i can only hope that the muslim brotherhood supports democracy. i feel it's almost inevitable that they will emerge as the organized opposition. damn dictator states really know how to prevent succession and dissent. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zig Posted February 2, 2011 Share Posted February 2, 2011 Apparently Anderson Cooper got punched in the head a bunch of times.... at least the violence has accomplished some good. rofl Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ILOTSMYBRAIN Posted February 2, 2011 Share Posted February 2, 2011 There is no leadership of the revolt in Egypt right now, thus you don't know whats going to come of it. The people protesting aren't a monolithic bloc, you have people from all different political backgrounds, so after Mubarak is out, then you're going to have these different groups vying for power. Nah I got the jist of what he was saying, I just want more details, in situations like these I really appreciate Christo's indepth anaylsis. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lord_casek Posted February 2, 2011 Share Posted February 2, 2011 freedom for egypt insh'allah Aren't you an Atheist? I hear that the Muslim Brotherhood has no chance of taking over the country, which is good. Supposed to be about 150,000 in a country of 3 million. Apparently, the people don't want a Sharia Law government. They want a true democracy. At Christo regarding Iran: Didn't we (U.S.) put the Shah in Iran in '79? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lord_casek Posted February 3, 2011 Share Posted February 3, 2011 Mubarak concessions 'insufficient' http://english.aljazeera.net/news/middleeast/2011/02/20112272918301323.html Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Qawee Posted February 3, 2011 Share Posted February 3, 2011 Aren't you an Atheist? I hear that the Muslim Brotherhood has no chance of taking over the country, which is good. Supposed to be about 150,000 in a country of 3 million. Apparently, the people don't want a Sharia Law government. They want a true democracy. At Christo regarding Iran: Didn't we (U.S.) put the Shah in Iran in '79? The Shah who was a US ally was overthrown in 79 by a popular revolution which was co-opted by Ayatollah Khomeni's bloc Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Qawee Posted February 3, 2011 Share Posted February 3, 2011 I'm anxious to see whats going to come of this, regime thugs on horses and camels have been attacking protesters in Tahrir Square today as well as throwing molotov cocktails at the anti-Mubarak protesters. Unfortunately there doesn't seem to be any clear cut leadership or any sort of program put out other than "no Mubarak" so its kinda hard to go from there. In any case I think the time for peaceful demonstration against the regime has come and gone... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lord_casek Posted February 3, 2011 Share Posted February 3, 2011 The Shah who was a US ally was overthrown in 79 by a popular revolution which was co-opted by Ayatollah Khomeni's bloc Thanks for correcting me. It was the Shah who was placed in by the CIA (Kermit Roosevelt) in the 50's? Too many facts. Don't see how Christo keeps it all in his head. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lord_casek Posted February 3, 2011 Share Posted February 3, 2011 I'm anxious to see whats going to come of this, regime thugs on horses and camels have been attacking protesters in Tahrir Square today as well as throwing molotov cocktails at the anti-Mubarak protesters. Unfortunately there doesn't seem to be any clear cut leadership or any sort of program put out other than "no Mubarak" so its kinda hard to go from there. In any case I think the time for peaceful demonstration against the regime has come and gone... Is the army keeping their word to protect the people? Haven't kept up with it today. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Qawee Posted February 3, 2011 Share Posted February 3, 2011 Thanks for correcting me. It was the Shah who was placed in by the CIA (Kermit Roosevelt) in the 50's? Too many facts. Don't see how Christo keeps it all in his head. Yeah the Shah was put into power by the US, I believe after the democratically elected prime minister nationalized the oil industry. Is the army keeping their word to protect the people? Haven't kept up with it today. Negative, pro-Mubarak people have been attacking protesters with relative impunity (and beating up Anderson Cooper). Some government workers have said they were ordered to take part in pro-Mubarak rallies. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lord_casek Posted February 3, 2011 Share Posted February 3, 2011 Cooper deserved it. As for the Shah being put in, I seem to recall Kermit Roosevelt admitting to blowing up a few Mosques and distributing fliers pointing to the Prime Minister as supporting such actions. Something like that, anyway. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
christo-f Posted February 3, 2011 Share Posted February 3, 2011 i'm not sure the iranian revolution was this peaceful. and the US president definitely was not clearly on the side of the protesters. just sayin, i think it's a bit of an oversimplification to say it's like something else. the egyptian people do not seem to overwhelmingly support an islamic govt either, there's plenty in favor of something secular. there has been a coalition formed out of the opposition as well, they were able to point to el baradei as speaker (not leader) and form a list of demands. ..i'm anxiously watching todays events unfold. could be the crux. I'm not sure I'd call the situation in Egypt peaceful, nor am I confident that it isn't going to get more unstable. A large amount of the more public push for the over-throw of the Shah in 79 were not Islamists either. They were liberals, communists, intellectuals etc. that were used by the Islamists behind the scenes who then came in and took the spoils with Khomeini up front. El Baradei doesn't have real support from the MB and if he is out front if/when Mubarak leaves he will be quickly replaced. I'm not saying that there is anyone behind the scenes in this like the Ayatollahs were in IRan, just that there are a whole bunch of social forces cobbled together in a move to over-throw a govt and there is a long history of Islamic movements in Egypt. That much is similar to Iran and everyone involved with 79 in and out of the country got a pretty rude shock when Iran didn't turn out the way they thought it would. Due to the nature of the unrest and what so far looks very much like a freewheeling movement that no one really has a handle on, there is the possibility that the results may be somewhat similar to the Iranian revolution. My money is on the military being the ones with the most control over the outcome and they will be the ones to push Mub if he doesn't respond to the easing that they are trying with now. The we will see a serious purging of the non-military security forces and there stands the possibility for some brutality. Wish I got to punch Cooper as well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lord_casek Posted February 3, 2011 Share Posted February 3, 2011 Christo: Is there a Soros connection here? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Qawee Posted February 3, 2011 Share Posted February 3, 2011 If you wanted a look at what Egypt would be like under the Muslim Brotherhood, you can look no further than the Gaza strip, as I believe Hamas came out of that same movement, IE they aren't al Qaeda types, but more of "look out, here come the fun police!" Although I doubt the urban youth in Egypt who have been against Mubarak's police state would let the Brotherhood come in and tell them they couldn't drink Heinekens and listen to 50 cent any more. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lord_casek Posted February 3, 2011 Share Posted February 3, 2011 From what I gather, Egypt is 80 million strong with less than 150,000 MB's. They don't have much of a chance. /crosses fingers Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lord_casek Posted February 3, 2011 Share Posted February 3, 2011 What it's like in Egypt: An email from my mom 215 points by zefhous 13 hours ago | 46 comments I just received this email from my mom who has been visiting my sister in Cairo. Some background: My sister Noelle lives there and teaches at the American University of Cairo. She is married to John, an Egyptian man. My father is Lebanese and my parents lived in Lebanon during much of their civil war before I was born. Here's a lightly edited version of what she wrote: Dear Friends, There is still no internet here in Cairo as I write. The servers and the internet have been turned off, but I have decided to get my email ready so that I can send them when there is access again. The mobile phone system has been turned on again, according to Noelle who called hers from her land line. But it’s so busy that it’s almost impossible to call anyone yet, and the internet has not come on all of today. It will be interesting to see who has written to check that I am still alive, and yes, I am still alive. As I asked before, please pray for the poor people here. They live on almost nothing, and my heart goes out to the parents who have nothing to feed their children. The poverty and suffering is so difficult, and the rage of the people is true. The rich are getting richer, and the poor are so unable to find jobs and ways to care for their families. With my BA in Biblical Archaeology, I have been tempted to go to the National Museum of Cairo and stand guard with other Egyptian citizens, but what could I do with my cane as a weapon? We have seen photos of glass cabinets broken into and now empty in the museum, and it saddens me that a few foolish people would steal the gold and some of the amazing antiquities from the pharaoh’s times, an incredible treasure of Egypt. On Friday, Noelle’s husband and my son-in-law, John, with his friend, were out for many hours in the vast crowds, photographing, dodging water cannons but still very wet from them and suffering from all the tear gas in the air. He and his Belgian friend, David, a houseguest who is planning to move here, went out together to observe and report on the events. David, who left for Brussels, going to the airport on Saturday morning as soon as the curfew lifted at 7 AM, said that the gas was terrible and miserable. John wrote a news story for his Arabic newspaper which is both an online and in a printed paper. And he brought us home a tear gas canister so that we could see “the gifts that America sends to Egypt”. It was made on Kinsman Road in Jamestown, Pennsylvania, 16134. Manufactured in 2003, it is three years beyond its expiration date, but John said that it still worked very well. I rubbed my eye after I handled the canister, and I am regretting it now. It’s a few feet from me, but I can smell it from here. We are putting it into a clear plastic bag as a reminder of yesterday. Done. People and families of those who have been injured, over 1000, and killed, over 150, like the young woman hit in the head with a tear gas canister while she stood agreeing and shouting from a bridge that Mubarak must be deposed, need so much prayer and care. John and David gave their scarves to men who were bleeding, and they called us on the land line from the newspaper office to ask for first aid advice. People were helping each other, but only some went to hospitals. But there was a shortage of fire trucks to quell the fires or ambulances to help the wounded. Last night the citizens set up check points to search vehicles that were heading into areas where there were still riots. An ambulance that civilians searched had weapons and bullets in it going to the security forces. The people went crazy and took these weapons away from being supplied to the police who were going to use them on the people. Still, John said that people brought to the newspaper office both large and small bullets that had been removed from people or found on the street. So the police started out using rubber bullets which can wound and some times kill, and later used real bullets that can easily kill the citizens. People here usually do not have weapons. This is not true in Lebanon. Last week I saw a hand gun, a rifle, and a semi-automatic machine gun at a neighbor’s home. He was happy and proud of them and felt they helped him keep his family safe and protected. John describes the police here as being brutal and inhumane and the jails as frightening places where torture is common and terrible. Last night, the army was shooting multiple rounds into late in the evening, and I woke up this morning to that sound. With the curfew, people are protecting their own property, which is a good use of their time, since the police are not in evidence, and they have taken responsibility for chasing them off the streets. Some friends came over, I made a soup, and we prayed together for Egypt, and we watched TV for a while. Then we played RISK. We didn’t finish the game until 2 AM, and I, having won and lost the USA and won Europe, was the winner at RISK. How fun was that! Personally, on Friday, I hobbled three blocks to the vegetable and fruit market and bought some fresh produce. Red cabbage, dirty potatoes, small zucchini, sweet potatoes, red peppers, tomatoes, cucumbers, oranges and bananas. They usually wash their salad items in vinegar, but most of the vinegar had been taken by John and his friend to fight the worst effects of the tear-gas, so I boiled tomatoes to pop the skins off and peeled the other items. I found and bought a good fresh crunchy romaine lettuce, and I am going to find more vinegar today so we can eat a salad, I hope. I found a sweet little village farm lady on the side of the road with a basket of greens, so she sold me the lettuce and some green onions. She wanted 65 cents. I paid her $1 because I wouldn’t ask her for change! Usually you cannot find anything that was just picked that day, so this was a bonus for my having hobbled out to shop. [...] I will include a photo of the scene, but I am hoping to turn out an impressionist painting of the scene of Tahrir Square with tens of thousands of protestors in it in front of a huge government building at night. The largest protestant church in Egypt, Kassar Debara, is hidden behind it. Of Egypt’s 80 million people, 10% are Christians. Some Muslims have been guarding Coptic churches while Christians pray, and on Friday, Christians were guarding the mosques while Muslims prayed. [...] Hearing the gun shots late into the night (as the army is firing into the air to keep looters away) has reminded me of the war years Georges and I spent with André and Noelle in Lebanon. We always slept in the most hidden bedroom, and we kept the children with us so they wouldn’t be afraid. One evening, our apartment parking area near the stairs had a car that blew up because someone had wired a bomb to it. We had been at a party playing RISK, and we were fifteen minutes late getting André home for his bed time. We heard the loud blast of the car bomb as we were leaving, but only knew it was our building when we arrived home and all the doors had been shattered open. If we had been on time, we and our ears would have been finished. Georges spent the whole night with his drill and common sense repairing people’s doors so they could lock themselves in their apartments. John's mother and brother, Nadia and David, are staying with us for several days now that the other David has gone home. It's too far to come for a visit during the curfew and then to go home by the subway, over an hour away. David, an architect, has a terrible and painful sickness, familial mediterranean fever. Different ethnic groups have this, Armenians, Jews, and Egyptians. What a difficult and painful sickness it is. The mothers get to share a bedroom. You can read about it on Wikipedia, but, of course, I cannot. I don't have access to the internet. Another teacher also stayed with us last night to understand the news and watch some TV stations here. Now that we finally have had the internet turned back on, I shall look forward to reading your emails! I am flying out on Friday or Saturday, depending on when Lufthansa finds a space for me. [...] I am asking God to help me find a way to the airport. Gas stations have been rather closed. I hope to see and talk with many friends next week! Please pray for the helpless and hopeless in Egypt. http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=2170560 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
christo-f Posted February 3, 2011 Share Posted February 3, 2011 From what I gather, Egypt is 80 million strong with less than 150,000 MB's. They don't have much of a chance. /crosses fingers Membership numbers are not necessarily a measure of support. I'm sure if you measure the actual members of the conservatives and Labor parties in the UK you would find a similar ratio of the population however they still get enough support to form government. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MAR Posted February 3, 2011 Share Posted February 3, 2011 There are already Shiria laws in Egypt. Its not a matter of democracy or not at this point, its a matter of organization. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lord_casek Posted February 3, 2011 Share Posted February 3, 2011 Sharia law in Egypt applies only in personal status issues - such as marriage, divorce, inheritance, and custody of children. Otherwise the legal system is entirely a secular one, on the model of the French legal system. Egypt incorporates Islamic law into its constitution by making Islam the official religion of the country and Islamic jurisprudence the principal source of legislation. Sharia courts and judges, qadis, are run and licensed by the Egyptian Ministry of Justice, not by mosques. Islamists in Egypt are pressing for Sharia law to be applied in all areas of the legal system. A non-religious Supreme Court operates above the Sharia personal status courts and the secular criminal courts. Religious minorities in Egypt are governed under separate personal status laws and courts. Coptic Christians in Egypt marry under Christian law, and foreigners marry under the laws of their countries of origin. http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/7235357.stm I did not know this until I just looked it up. Makes sense and it's pretty logical. I wouldn't live in a country with Sharia law as it doesn't agree with my beliefs. To each his own. I hope the people make the right choices. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Walid Jumblat Posted February 3, 2011 Share Posted February 3, 2011 Um, helllooooo, Lebanon, government collapse, STL, Hezbollah taking over the country, me being forced by Syria to vote for Mikati instead of Hariri??!! Goddamn you people have short attention spans. Egypt has a little bit of poo poo in the town square and everyone forgets about Lebanon. Fuck you guys, man. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Qawee Posted February 3, 2011 Share Posted February 3, 2011 Hey look at the title of the thread, guy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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