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Citizen X

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In saying that, however, the US doesn't want this shit in Egypt. They had a good little dictator in Mubarak who kept the Islamic forces in check and was a regional competitor to Iran. The regional balance was set as best it could be at the time and that has now been upset.

 

I don't see Iran's hand deep in this but if anyone is likely to benefit out of this it's Tehran.

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"I can not and will not accept to be dictated orders from outside, no matter what the source is," Mubarak said.

 

So, are you guys still believing that there is no western influence here?

 

no, i don't think so.

this is a tactic of his in fact, to divide the opposition

part of the reason there has been a great deal of popular support in egypt for this is that he has promised ALL this shit before, free and fair elections, stepping aside, and it has never happened. so the people of egypt don't believe his promises.

not to mention, no one in real power in the west has openly called for his resignation.

one of the major players in the egypt NDP party has however

 

i cannot emphasize this enough, if mubarak is overthrown we may have a much less friendly gov't in there. if anything, the west would want mubarak in power (just like you see in pakistan, where a harsh military regime is in place and he likes us, and we give him money to stay on our side and buy our weapons... but he doesn't have tremendous popularity inside pakistan, and i f the people of pakistan were to have a true democracy, it may be one very unfriendly to the west, and with nuclear power to boot)

 

this whole revolution smacks of the people of egypt tiring of western influence

we put mubarak there and have helped keep him there

a new, democratic govt will be a very unpredictable thing for us, and since egypt is considered a friend and ally, if anything, we'd keep him in place until another western friendly person was viable (and have you noticed, there is no clear leader emerging? could be very dangerous for western powers if they want to keep meddling in their affairs)

 

it literally makes no practical sense for us to want to overthrow mubarak after all the work we put into keeping him there.

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Full statement from Vice-President Suleiman: "In the name of God the merciful, the compassionate, citizens, during these very difficult circumstances Egypt is going through, President Hosni Mubarak has decided to step down from the office of president of the republic and has charged the high council of the armed forces to administer the affairs of the country. May God help everybody."

 

 

:heartbeat:

 

 

According to article 84 of the Egyptian constitution, if the president steps down, the speaker of the People's Assembly shall temporarily assume the presidency. Secondly, a new president shall be chosen within a maximum period of 60 days from the date of the vacancy of the presidential office. It is not clear if this will apply if the Higher Military Council is in charge of the nation's affairs.

 

 

"fed up with corrupt regimes, the people of egypt have forced the regime from power.. the center of cairo is now owned by the people of egypt... the next few days will be a test for the people of egypt.. will there be free and fair elections? who will come to power? but that is a question for tomorrow, for now, for the moment, the people have gotten what they've been demanding for three weeks..."

-BBC

 

egypt, i rejoice for you!

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More from Jon Leyne: "Around Cairo, drivers are honking their horns in celebration and guns are being fired into the air. The huge crowds are rejoicing. However, the army takeover looks very much like a coup. The constitution has been breached. Officially, the speaker of parliament should be taking over. Instead it is the army leadership. Egypt moves into a very uncertain future."

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Former Egyptian army General Samah Seif El Yazal tells the BBC: "There are two directions the Higher Military Council can go. The first is to ask the existing government to run the country for a transitional period of perhaps a year. The other option is for the military to run the country by committee. We are very anxious to hear from them about what they intend to do."

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from an interview on BBC with an egyptian demonstrator:

 

a people's revolution, NOT an islamic revolution..

yes, could happen in other middle eastern states.. iran could be next.

their mullahs tried to call egypt's revolution islamic, it is not, the muslim brotherhood will have a say in the government just like all the other parties that had been marginalized..

 

1649: A military source tells the Reuters news agency that Field Marshal Mohammed Hussein Tantawi, the defence minister and commander-in-chief of the armed forces, is the head of the Higher Military Council that has taken control in Egypt.

1645: The BBC's Lyse Doucet reports from midst of a jubilant crowd in Tahrir Square: "There are people here who have stood here for 18 days and have literally made history in their own country."

1644: Another leading opposition figure, Mohamed ElBaradei, tells the Associated Press: "This is the greatest day of my life." The Nobel laureate says Egypt has been "liberated after decades of repression" and that he expects a "beautiful" transition of power.

 

 

 

 

1652: Al-Arabiya reports that the Higher Military Council will sack the cabinet, suspend both houses of parliament and rule with the head of the Supreme Constitutional Court, the country's highest judicial body. A statement is expected later on Friday.

 

1651: Raafat tweets: "I never kissed so many people in my life #egypt #jan25"

 

1650: The BBC's Hamada Abu Qammar reports that many Palestinians in the Gaza Strip have been firing their guns into the air in celebration at the resignation of Mr Mubarak. The Islamist group Hamas, which control Gaza, has already proclaimed the announcement as the "beginning of the victory of the Egyptian Revolution".

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them, lebanon, algeria.. domino muthafucka!

could be a few places...

 

 

1759: Selma, a protester in Tahrir Square, tells the BBC World Service: "Everyone is hoping that Hosni Mubarak will be brought to court for the crimes committed against protestors over the past week."

 

1758: The head of the new high military council, Field Marshal Tantawi, has greeted crowds outside the presidential palace, according to AFP.

 

1757: AFP also reporting that the Swiss government has ordered a freeze on the assets of Hosni Mubarak and his entourage

 

YES

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HAHA i saw that too. Soo much for thinking you had a cool billion to chill on the rest of your days. Dude shouldn't have been so stubborn and could have bounced a couple of days ago to Saudi Arabia. Because he didn't address the people himself, I think he's probably under house arrest or at the very least has his movements limited.

 

keeping-it-real.jpg?w=479

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haha mubarak kept it so unreal.

 

 

i don't know wtf this means, but it's on BBC..

 

 

1825: President of the Islamic Republic of Iran Mahmoud Ahmadinejad tweets: "Youth of Iran! Anybody who promises not to protest will receive 1900 Microsoft Points."

 

 

this cannot be fucking forreal.

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1830: The military says it is preparing steps to fulfil the Egyptian people's legitimate aspirations.

 

1827: The Higher Council of the Egyptian Armed Forces is making another statement.

 

...anyone who wants to take a dump on this is too cynical to get it.

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1830: The military says it is preparing steps to fulfil the Egyptian people's legitimate aspirations.

 

1827: The Higher Council of the Egyptian Armed Forces is making another statement.

 

...anyone who wants to take a dump on this is too cynical to get it.

 

i'm not taking a dump on it or being cynical, i'm cautiously optimistic...

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1836: The military spokesman says: "Hosni Mubarak has decided to step down as president of the republic and to entrust the Higher Council of the Armed Forces to administer the affairs of the state. We are all aware of the magnitude of this issue and the seriousness of the demand of our great people to implement radical changes. The higher council is studying this issue with god's help in an effort to achieve the hopes of our great people."

 

 

1837: He adds: "The higher council will later issue another statement which will define the steps that will be followed. It stresses at the same time that there is no other way forward other than the legitimate one aspired to by the people."

 

 

1839: The military's statement concludes: "The higher council salutes President Hosni Mubarak for what he has given during his time, in war and peace, and his decision to put the interests of the country first. The higher council also salutes the martyrs who have sacrificed their lives to protect the freedom of their country."

 

 

cause for celebration: mubarak was overthrown

even MORE cause for celebration: when democracy takes over, really.

 

for now, i'd say they get it.

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1935: The BBC's Owen Bennett-Jones in Beirut says: "For over two weeks now many Lebanese people have been following closely the news from Egypt, and now Hosni Mubarak has gone there is a sense of pride that Arabs, with no need for help from outside powers, have forced democratic change by peaceful protest. At one bar in Beirut, in which a huge TV screen showed the pictures from Cairo, the management handed out free drinks to help the clientele celebrate the news. Many Lebanese are now wondering what happens next and they say they are hopeful that more authoritarian regimes in the Middle East will succumb to people power."

 

 

1933: People across the Arab World have also been reacting to the news of President Mubarak's resignation. In Tunisia, where people overthrew their own president last month, there was dancing in the streets, and car horns were blared in celebration. There was also jubilation across the Palestinian territories, where people sang the Egyptian national anthem. The Hamas movement, which controls the Gaza Strip, said it was the start of the Egyptian revolution. In Lebanon, the militant Hezbollah movement congratulated the Egyptian people on a great victory.

 

 

 

1939: The BBC's Rana Jawad in the Libyan capital, Tripoli, says: "It has been a long and surreal day for many here, who keenly watched events unfold in neighbouring Egypt on their television screens. But it was not on national news broadcasters that they relied on - Libyan state TV waited for almost an hour to mention the announcement on the ticker at the bottom of the screen. The reaction has mostly been one of excitement, but at times accompanied by a degree of bewilderment at the speed of the developments in Egypt, and caution over what is to come after. All this expressed in private or on social networking sites like Facebook. However the key message from the Libyan public is that they are proud of their neighbours. The Libyan leader, Muammar Gaddafi, has so far remained silent over developments in Egypt, so too have most officials here, though it is believed the majority are unhappy that two long-serving heads of state have been ousted by popular protests so far this year. Col Gaddafi has been in power for 41 years."

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America’s Strategic Repression of the ‘Arab Awakening’

North Africa and the Global Political Awakening, Part 2

http://www.globalresearch.ca/index.php?context=va&aid=23159

 

In Part 1 of this series, I analyzed the changing nature of the Arab world, in experiencing an uprising as a result of the ‘Global Political Awakening.’ Ultimately, I assessed that these could potentially be the birth pangs of a global revolution; however, the situation is more complicated than it appears on the surface.

 

While the uprisings spreading across the Arab world have surprised many observers, the same could not be said for the American foreign policy and strategic establishment. A popular backlash against American-supported dictatorships and repressive regimes has been anticipated for a number of years, with arch-hawk geopolitical strategist Zbigniew Brzezinski articulating a broad conception of a ‘Global Political Awakening’ taking place, in which the masses of the world (predominantly the educated, exploited and impoverished youth of the ‘Third World’) have become acutely aware of their subjugation, inequality, exploitation and oppression. This ‘Awakening’ is largely driven by the revolution in information, technology and communication, including radio, television, but most especially the Internet and social media. Brzezinski had accurately identified this ‘Awakening’ as the greatest threat to elite interests regionally, but also internationally, with America sitting on top of the global hierarchy.

 

This spurred on the development of an American strategy in the Arab world, modeled on similar strategies pursued in recent decades in other parts of the world, in promoting “democratization,” by developing close contacts with ‘civil society’ organizations, opposition leaders, media sources, and student organizations. The aim is not to promote an organic Arab democracy ‘of the people, and for the people,’ but rather to promote an evolutionary “democratization” in which the old despots of American strategic support are removed in favour of a neoliberal democratic system, in which the outward visible institutions of democracy are present (multi-party elections, private media, parliaments, constitutions, active civil society, etc); yet, the power-holders within that domestic political system remain subservient to U.S. economic and strategic interests, continuing to follow the dictates of the IMF and World Bank, supporting America’s military hegemony in the region, and “opening up” the Arab economies to be “integrated” into the world economy. Thus, “democratization” becomes an incredibly valuable strategy for maintaining hegemony; a modern re-hash of “Let them eat cake!” Give the people the ‘image’ of democracy and establish and maintain a co-dependent relationship with the new elite. Thus, democracy for the people becomes an exercise in futility, where people’s ‘participation’ becomes about voting between rival factions of elites, who all ultimately follow the orders of Washington.

 

This strategy also has its benefit for the maintenance of American power in the region. While dictators have their uses in geopolitical strategy, they can often become too independent of the imperial power and seek to determine the course of their country separate from U.S. interests, and are subsequently much more challenging to remove from power (i.e., Saddam Hussein). With a “democratized” system, changing ruling parties and leaders becomes much easier, by simply calling elections and supporting opposition parties. Bringing down a dictator is always a more precarious situation than “changing the guard” in a liberal democratic system.

 

 

earlier in this thread christo commented on the U.S's benefit from destabilizing the Middle East, this article here details why "democratization" is not necessarily "freedom" for the people of Egypt or other nations who are protesting and supposedly having successful revolutions. if anyone actually reads the article in full and would like to comment on it, i'd be interested to hear your take on what the article is describing. something hopefully well articulated and not just a simple dismissal would be appreciated.

 

The protesters must challenge not simply their despotic governments, but must ultimately remove American and Western control over their nations. They must also be very cautious of opposition groups and proposed leaders who are thrust to the front lines and into the government, as they are likely co-opted. The true new leaders should come from the people, and should earn their leadership, not simply be crowned as ‘leaders.’ The best possible short-to-medium-term scenario would be to see the emergence of Arab populist democracies, reflecting the trend seen across Latin America (although, not necessarily imposing the same ideologies). The trouble with this scenario is that it is also the most unlikely. If there is one thing that American power despises, it is populist democracy. Since the beginnings of the Cold War until present day, America has actively overthrown, orchestrated coups, imposed dictatorships, crushed, invaded and occupied, bombed and destabilized or implemented “democratic regime change” in populist democracies. Democratic governments that are accountable to the people and seek to help the poor and oppressed make themselves quick enemies of American power. Over the past 60 years, America has repressed or supported the repression of democracies, liberation struggles and attempts at autonomy all over the world: Iran in 1953, Guatemala in 1954, Haiti in 1959, the Congo in 1960, Ecuador in 1961, Algeria, Peru, the Dominican Republic, Cuba, Laos, Cambodia, Vietnam, Chile, Argentina, Afghanistan, Indonesia, South Africa, Palestine, Iraq, Venezuela, Lebanon, Yemen and on and on and on.

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In a few minutes we should know what the story is.

 

My money is on the military saying that Mubarak has stepped down.

 

Which having the military make that announcement is an indication that there has been a coup de tat.

 

Sorry, said minutes, meant hours. :)

 

That was the time and now it is done.

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I'd go as far as to say that it wasn't even a revolution, it was a military coup that utilised inertia and dissatisfaction. The people were just a means to an end.

 

The next permanent leader of Egypt will come from a military pedigree.

 

Well at this point I'd probably agree with you; unless Mubarak's party, the police forces, and probably some of the upper echelons of the military are purged, it will just be more of the same

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