!@#$% Posted February 3, 2011 Share Posted February 3, 2011 the descent into chaos has begun i can only hope the army will begin to make the pro-mubarak factions stand down. the muslim brotherhood is an illegal organization, i would not trust ANY estimate as to their numbers. christo, i posted that and a little while later things turned violent. i hope i didn't jinx it. /ha and walid, fuck you too. i agree with qawee, learn to read before you spout off. and i don't know why i'm even addressing this ridiculous question. but casek, it's an expression. not everything has to be taken in a completely literal way. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Decyferon Posted February 3, 2011 Share Posted February 3, 2011 just watching the news now, they are reporting it as the regime has obviously gathered up it's supporters to start the violence as everything else has failed, obviously the state deny it, but it does look like it is constantly kicking off and I don't think anything will stop the violence unless the army stands in or Mubarak leaves (which they are still saying shouldnt happen and that foreigners should stop interfering in their business). Crazy watching things like this go down edit - also they just reported that state television is broadcasting that there Israeli spies dressed as western journalists and the press is now all hiding out and being attacked and having equipment stolen. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LUGR Posted February 3, 2011 Share Posted February 3, 2011 Reminds me of what happened in Indonesia in 1998. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cunt sauce Posted February 3, 2011 Share Posted February 3, 2011 Robert Fisk: Obama Administration Has Been Gutless and Cowardly in Dealing with the Mubarak Regime The renowned Middle East journalist speaks from Cairo on the historic uprising and how President Obama has lost an opportunity to back a democratic movement in the Middle East. http://www.democracynow.org/2011/2/3/robert_fisk_obama_administration_has_been Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
!@#$% Posted February 3, 2011 Share Posted February 3, 2011 this is a decent article on the Muslim Brotherhood, and largely backs up what egyptian friends have had to say on the matter.. http://www.nytimes.com/2011/02/04/world/middleeast/04brotherhood.html?pagewanted=1&_r=1&hp The Brotherhood, founded in Egypt in 1928, is the oldest and largest Islamist movement in the world, with affiliates in nearly every Muslim country and adherents in Europe and the United States. Its size and diversity, and the decades-old legal ban that has kept it from genuine political power in Egypt, make it difficult to sum up simply. As the Roman Catholic Church encompasses leftist liberation theology and conservative anti-abortion advocacy, so the Brotherhood includes both practical reformers and firebrand ideologues. .... “The Brotherhood hates Al Qaeda and Al Qaeda hates the Brotherhood,” said Shadi Hamid, director of research at the Brookings Doha Center in Qatar. “So if we’re talking about counterterrorism, engaging with the Brotherhood will advance our interests in the region.”.... A milestone in the Brotherhood’s evolution in Egypt came in 1984, when its leaders decided to compete in parliamentary elections. Since then, it has been alternately tolerated and repressed in Egyptian politics, where most estimates of its actual support begin at 20 percent of the electorate. *and of course we'll remember that Egypt's population is about 90 million there are about 32 million registered voters, and anyone over 18 has to vote by law Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wearekilluminati Posted February 3, 2011 Share Posted February 3, 2011 ..............THIS IS A REVOLUTION AND THE EGYPTIAN PEOPLE KNOW THAT. THEY KNOW THERE HISTORY AND ARE FULLY AWARE OF THE POLITICAL PROCESS.............................FUCK WHAT YOU HEAR OR SEE.............THE EGYPTIAN PEOPLE KNOW WHAT THEY WANT, AND IT ISN'T MUBARACK OBAMA OR ANY WESTERN STYLE PRESIDENT////////////////////REVOLVE REVOLVE............................................... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lord_casek Posted February 3, 2011 Share Posted February 3, 2011 but casek, it's an expression. not everything has to be taken in a completely literal way. Right on. it was just weird seeing that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lord_casek Posted February 4, 2011 Share Posted February 4, 2011 diplomatic car runs over more than 20 people Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
christo-f Posted February 4, 2011 Share Posted February 4, 2011 Jumblat cautions Egyptian opposition against entering into a compromise http://www.nna-leb.gov.lb/detailse.php?cat=pole NNA - 3/2/2011 Progressive Socialist Party Head, Deputy Walid Jumblat cautioned the opposition in Egypt against entering into a compromise that might scatter all efforts and split ranks apart; the matter that does not conform with Egyptian people's aspirations and insistence for liberty. Jumblat's word's came in a statement commenting on Egyptian developments. He said "Egypt and its people deserve freedom and living in dignity after all these long years of oppression and deserve to be earning their priori rights". Jumblat met respectively on Thursday with Cypriot Ambassador to Lebanon Homer Mavromatis and French Ambassador Donie Pietton. On Wednesday, Joumblat met with Syrian Ambassador Ali Abdel Karim Ali, in presence of Caretaker Public Works Minister Ghazi Aridi. Talks touched on the current developments. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
christo-f Posted February 4, 2011 Share Posted February 4, 2011 Egypt: Senior figure says Muslim Brotherhood ready for sacrifices Text of report by Muslim Brotherhood website Ikhwanonline on 3 February [Report by Usamah Abd-al-Salam: "Dr Rashad al-Bayyumi says we are all the more willing to sacrifice our lives for the sake of saving Egypt."] Deputy of the MB General Guide, Dr Rashad al-Bayyumi, has said that the Egyptian regime is deriving its legitimacy from the US and Zionist cliques, which are seeking to fragment the Arab-Islamic World. He added that this regime will surely collapse. Al-Bayyumi pointed out that had the Egyptian regime possessed any feelings of goodwill for the people, their needs and demands, it would have immediately stepped down. In remarks he made at an intervention with the al-Quds space channel on the evening of 2 February 2011, he said that "we will persist in our attitude and we are all the more willing to sacrifice our lives and property to please God the Almighty, to achieve all the demands of the Egyptian people, and to safeguard the lives of the young people." He asserted that rallies should be held in strategic and carefully selected places that cannot be accessible to those who seek to kill or commit various acts of aggression. Al-Bayyumi pointed out that the demands of the national forces can be briefly summed up in deposing this autocratic regime which has brought about the decline of the country and the retreat of its conditions in all fields. He said that demands also include the establishment of a national government that would embrace all political leanings, particularly the young people who brought the revolution to a head. They also include the dissolution of the People's Assembly and the Shura Council, the amendment of the constitution and holding fair elections. He said that the People's revolution should be clean and peaceful. The revolution is entitled to be protected by the law and the constitution and should not upset any existing balance. He noted that the People's revolution was confronted with actions carried out by the security services wounding more than 500 persons. He pointed out that after President Mubarak made his speech on Saturday, 29 February 2011, several protests, spearheaded by thugs and men of the security services, were held, demanding that President Mubarak stay in power. The protesters, mounting horses and camels, headed to the al-Tahrir square carrying white weapons and firearms, seeking a showdown of force with the peaceful protesters in order to neutralize their protests. Al-Bayyumi said that the policies of the region are being decided by the Zionist-US scheme. He explained that the United States protects its allies so as to protect its own interests. However, when it realizes that these allies are falling, it lets them down. Needless to say, all the autocratic regimes will come to an end and their role will be finished. These autocratic regimes will end up in the garbage can of history. He said that it is the people are solely entitled to choose their president in accordance with their national interests. He also called for the continuation of the protests in support of the Egyptian people's revolution and their demands. Source: Ikhwanonline website, Cairo, in Arabic 3 Feb 11 Mon ME1 MEPol vp Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
christo-f Posted February 4, 2011 Share Posted February 4, 2011 Egypt: Referendum On Peace Treaty If Mubarak Ousted - MB Official February 3, 2011 1958 GMT Egypt will hold a referendum on the 1979 peace treaty with Israel if Egyptian President Hosni Mubarak is ousted, Muslim Brotherhood (MB) spokesman Essam el-Erian told Israel's Channel 10 TV, DPA reported Feb. 3. El-Erian said Israel had only its own crimes to fear, offering reassurances that the MB was nonviolent and non-extremist. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zig Posted February 4, 2011 Share Posted February 4, 2011 some videos i found on reddit... this one is just horrible,,, van runs over about 20+ protestors... disgusting. someone else getting run over... (why they are immediately picking this man up by his limbs... probably doing more severe damage to him... i have no idea...) protestor getting shot dead: more people getting run over... not as severe as the other one... looks like a military vehicle attempting to control the crowd somehow???? ...no idea. more cars running people over.. this is just disgusting to watch... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zig Posted February 4, 2011 Share Posted February 4, 2011 also, an article from the telegraph which i think relates to this political situation and the situation in egypt. these sort of revolutions/crisis could be on the rise worldwide... http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/globalbusiness/8296987/IMF-raises-spectre-of-civil-wars-as-global-inequalities-worsen.html IMF raises spectre of civil wars as global inequalities worsen The International Monetary Fund (IMF) has warned that "dangerous" imbalances have emerged that threaten to derail global recovery and stoke tensions that may ultimately set off civil wars in deeply unequal countries. Dominique Strauss-Kahn, the IMF's chief, said the economic rebound across the world is built on unstable foundations, with many rich nations still strapped in job slumps while the rising powers of China, India and Brazil already facing the threat of overheating. "It is not the recovery we wanted. It is a recovery beset by tensions and strain, which could even sow the seeds of the next crisis," he said. "Global unemployment remains at record highs, with widening income inequality adding to social strains," he said, citing turmoil in North Africa as a prelude to what may happen as 400m youths join the workforce over the next decade. "We could see rising social and political instability within nations – even war," he said. The IMF has published a paper entitled Inequality, Leverage and Crisis arguing that the extreme gap between rich and poor – with echoes of the US in the late 1920s – was an underlying cause of the Great Recession from 2008-2009. The paper, by the Fund's modelling unit, warned of "disastrous consequences" for the world economy unless workers regain their "bargaining power" against rentiers. It suggests radical changes to the tax system and debt relief for workers. Mr Strauss-Kahn said the toxic global imbalances that caused the financial crisis are re-emerging, naming China and Germany as the two arch-sinners that rely on export surpluses to power growth at the expense of the US and other deficit countries. visit the link for the entire article... ridiculous that this is a report coming from the IMF, who in my opinion are partly responsible for the inequalities... whatever. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
christo-f Posted February 4, 2011 Share Posted February 4, 2011 I think you should be looking more to the corrupt governments of these countries if you want to lay blame. Sure there are issues of support from other forces such as the US, the French and so on. But none of that would be possible if the dictators weren't available in the first place. People such as Milosovic, Nicolia Causcescu, Ahmedinajad, Mugabe, Than Shwe, Lukashenko, Idi Amin, Bashir Al-Assad, Mao Zedong, the Taliban, etc., etc. all existed without the support of the US/West, IMF, World Bank, etc. etc. Whilst I'm sure all of these entities do have cases to answer in many instances, they are far from the over-arching evil that they are made out to me. Corruption and greed are the fundamental problems that cause unrest like we are seeing in Tunisia, Egypt, Algeria, Yemen, Syria, Jordan, etc. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
christo-f Posted February 4, 2011 Share Posted February 4, 2011 Muslim Brotherhood: Israel Not Honoring Treaty http://www.israelnationalnews.com/News/Flash.aspx/203457 Reported: 09:12 AM - Feb/04/11 Spokesman Mohamed Morsy of Egypt's Muslim Brotherhood said Thursday evening that "Israel has not respected" the peace agreement with Egypt. Asked by the Cable News Network if the movement would honor the pact if it took power, Morsy said that parliament would discuss the matter. Earlier a senior Muslim Brotherhood leader said the Brotherhood would move for cancellation of the treaty. Morsy said, "We are not against the Jew. We are against Zionism." He said the movement is not connected to terror but made it clear that resistance by Land of Israel Arabs "is acceptable." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lord_casek Posted February 4, 2011 Share Posted February 4, 2011 Christo: What are your feelings on this turning really ugly pretty soon? Any off the head predictions? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
christo-f Posted February 4, 2011 Share Posted February 4, 2011 it's still only 17:30, not off my head yet... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zig Posted February 4, 2011 Share Posted February 4, 2011 Egypt: Preview of America in 2015 The rioting and looting currently taking place in Egypt is primarily a result of massive food inflation and shows what all major cities in the United States will likely look like come year 2015 due to the Federal Reserve's zero percent interest rates and quantitative easing to infinity. On December 16th, 2009, NIA named Time Magazine's 2009 'Person of the Year' Ben Bernanke our 'Villain of the Year', saying he created "unprecedented amounts of inflation in unprecedented ways" and "When it costs $20 for a gallon of milk in a few years, Americans will have nobody to thank more than Bernanke." What started out a few weeks ago as protests in Algeria with citizens chanting "Bring Us Sugar!" and five citizens being killed, quickly spread to civil unrest in Tunisia which saw 14 more civilian deaths, and has now spread to riots in Egypt where 300 Egyptian citizens have been killed. Food inflation in Egypt has reached 20% and citizens in the nation already spend about 40% of their monthly expenditures on food. Americans for decades have been blessed with cheap food, spending only 13% of their expenditures on food, but this is about to change. NIA was the first to predict the recent explosion in agricultural commodity prices in our October 30th, 2009, article entitled, "U.S. Inflation to Appear Next in Food and Agriculture", which said we have a "perfect storm for an explosion in agriculture prices". A couple of months later in 'NIA's Top 10 Predictions for 2010' we predicted "Major Food Shortages" and said, "Inventories of agricultural products are the lowest they have been in decades yet the prices of many agricultural commodities are down 70% to 80% from their all time highs adjusted for real inflation". Over the past year, agricultural commodities as a whole have outperformed almost every other type of asset, with silver being one of only a few other assets keeping pace with agriculture. (On December 11th, 2009, NIA declared silver the best investment for the next decade at $17.40 per ounce and it has so far risen 64% to its current price of $28.39 per ounce). The world is at the beginning stages of an all out inflationary panic. Wheat, which NIA previously called on 'NIAnswers' its favorite investment besides gold and silver, is now up to a new 30-month high of $8.63 per bushel and has doubled in price since June of last year. Algeria bought 800,000 tonnes of wheat this past week, bringing their total purchases for the month of January up to 1.8 million tonnes, which was quadruple expectations. Saudi Arabia is also beginning to stockpile their inventories of wheat. Rice futures have gained 8% during the past few days with Bangladesh and Indonesia placing extraordinary large orders. Indonesia's latest rice order was quadruple its normal allotment and Bangladesh plans to double rice purchases this year. Meanwhile, the U.S., which is the world's third largest exporter of rice, is expected to cut production by 25% in 2011. read the rest of the article here: http://inflation.us/egyptpreviewamerica.html Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
!@#$% Posted February 4, 2011 Share Posted February 4, 2011 I think you should be looking more to the corrupt governments of these countries if you want to lay blame. Sure there are issues of support from other forces such as the US, the French and so on. But none of that would be possible if the dictators weren't available in the first place. People such as Milosovic, Nicolia Causcescu, Ahmedinajad, Mugabe, Than Shwe, Lukashenko, Idi Amin, Bashir Al-Assad, Mao Zedong, the Taliban, etc., etc. all existed without the support of the US/West, IMF, World Bank, etc. etc. Whilst I'm sure all of these entities do have cases to answer in many instances, they are far from the over-arching evil that they are made out to me. Corruption and greed are the fundamental problems that cause unrest like we are seeing in Tunisia, Egypt, Algeria, Yemen, Syria, Jordan, etc. word. while there are conspiracies and the west has been oppressive not every single conflict and problem can be traced back to us, the west, or some shadow organization of the elite. i'd prolly add pol pot, argentina's dirty war and pinochet to the list too, seeing how violent and terrible their regimes were, and how many people who dissented were killed or disappeared http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grandmothers_of_the_Plaza_de_Mayo ...anxiously awaiting the developments of today and the weekend mubarak seems to be just digging in.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Qawee Posted February 4, 2011 Share Posted February 4, 2011 christo-f: although I agree with you that dictators can exist without the support of the United States, that $1.5bn in aid sure doesn't hurt in ensuring a government has shiny military hardware available to crush any opposition to it Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zig Posted February 4, 2011 Share Posted February 4, 2011 christo-f: although I agree with you that dictators can exist without the support of the United States, that $1.5bn in aid sure doesn't hurt in ensuring a government has shiny military hardware available to crush any opposition to it yea, that's pretty much what i was thinking... it's not necessarily blaming "the west" either, or a "shadow organization of the elite" how do you think dictators and terrorists get arms? who do they get funded by? who are they propped up by? not every political conflict can be traced back to a shadowy conspiracy theory, but the ramifications of corruption and inequality is behind the curtains of most of these recent crises. the elephant in the room can't be avoided, corruption has to be confronted and rooted out across the globe... that's MY opinion, not very many facts to back it up but i have been posting some rather interesting articles i thought.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cunt sauce Posted February 5, 2011 Share Posted February 5, 2011 http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2011/jan/28/egypt-police-brutality-torture-wikileaks US Embassy cable reveals : "Independent NGOs have criticized GOE-led efforts to provide human rights training for the police as ineffective and lacking political will. The GOE has not yet made a serious effort to transform the police from an instrument of regime power into a public service institution. We want to continue a USG-funded police training program (ref F), and to look for other ways to help the GOE address police brutality. End summary and comment. ------------ NGO contacts estimate there are literally hundreds of torture incidents every day in Cairo police stations alone." These were embassy cables dated in 2007 and 2008... How much did US give Egypt last year? Why is Hillary speaking out against violence now? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Noam Chomsky Posted February 5, 2011 Share Posted February 5, 2011 I wish england would react this way, so we could get that withered up old cunt out of power. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Noam Chomsky Posted February 5, 2011 Share Posted February 5, 2011 some videos i found on reddit... this one is just horrible,,, van runs over about 20+ protestors... disgusting. someone else getting run over... (why they are immediately picking this man up by his limbs... probably doing more severe damage to him... i have no idea...) protestor getting shot dead: more people getting run over... not as severe as the other one... looks like a military vehicle attempting to control the crowd somehow???? ...no idea. more cars running people over.. this is just disgusting to watch... Thanks for sharing this. This conflict is horrible.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KM4RT Posted February 5, 2011 Share Posted February 5, 2011 He cites his 2004 research: • Egypt's underground economy was the nation's biggest employer. The legal private sector employed 6.8 million people and the public sector employed 5.9 million, while 9.6 million people worked in the extralegal sector. • As far as real estate is concerned, 92% of Egyptians hold their property without normal legal title. • We estimated the value of all these extralegal businesses and property, rural as well as urban, to be $248 billion—30 times greater than the market value of the companies registered on the Cairo Stock Exchange and 55 times greater than the value of foreign direct investment in Egypt since Napoleon invaded—including the financing of the Suez Canal and the Aswan Dam. (Those same extralegal assets would be worth more than $400 billion in today's dollars.) From MarginalRevolution Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
christo-f Posted February 5, 2011 Share Posted February 5, 2011 christo-f: although I agree with you that dictators can exist without the support of the United States, that $1.5bn in aid sure doesn't hurt in ensuring a government has shiny military hardware available to crush any opposition to it Most of the 'crushing of opposition' doesn't come from the military in Egypt it comes from the police, intelligence and CSF. The military aid goes more towards balancing regional forces...., i.e. Iran. Case in point is that it is not the military that is attacking the anti-govt protestors in Tahrir square and raiding houses, attacking journos, etc. It's the police and CSF in civilian clothes. The local forces are run by Suleiman, the guy who was supposed to be Mubarak's replacement. Basically: Mubarak is old and dying. He wanted to put his son, Gamal in after him (using rigged elections, the same that have kept Hosni in power) NAsser, Sadat and Hosni all come from the military (pretty sure all are air force, the strongest of the three arms), Gamal has no military experience and the military told Hosni that they would not allow Gamal as PM Mubarak said that he would put Suleiman, his intel chief in power for a while to allow Gamal to gain experience. Suleiman is also old and sick and the military said no. Some dude in Tunisia self immolated and over threw the govt, momentum spread to Egypt and here we are now. Military wants Hosni to piss off, Suleiman is another Hosni. Suleiman controls intel, police and CSF, so the cops/intel/csf know if Suleiman goes their power patron is gone too. The police and CSF have had violent clashes with the military in the past. However the DefMin Tantawi is also a Hosni-ite and that limits him a little. That's pretty much where it stands at the moment, but the point being is that military aid in Egypt has minimal consequences for containing political opposition as that role belongs to internal security services. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
christo-f Posted February 5, 2011 Share Posted February 5, 2011 yea, that's pretty much what i was thinking... it's not necessarily blaming "the west" either, or a "shadow organization of the elite" how do you think dictators and terrorists get arms? who do they get funded by? who are they propped up by? not every political conflict can be traced back to a shadowy conspiracy theory, but the ramifications of corruption and inequality is behind the curtains of most of these recent crises. the elephant in the room can't be avoided, corruption has to be confronted and rooted out across the globe... that's MY opinion, not very many facts to back it up but i have been posting some rather interesting articles i thought.. Morally I agree, realistically I know that will never happen. I also agree with the cultural perspective on corruption. What we call corruption in the west is called guanxi in China and how their society has run for almost 4000 years. Without meaning it be rude or condescending, I think your world view, whilst kind hearted and well meaning, is a little naive and unrealistic. It's a jungle out there, bro and I can't see any reason why that would change. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
christo-f Posted February 5, 2011 Share Posted February 5, 2011 Wow, looks like he's going. Shit's on the move. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zig Posted February 5, 2011 Share Posted February 5, 2011 Morally I agree, realistically I know that will never happen. I also agree with the cultural perspective on corruption. What we call corruption in the west is called guanxi in China and how their society has run for almost 4000 years. Without meaning it be rude or condescending, I think your world view, whilst kind hearted and well meaning, is a little naive and unrealistic. It's a jungle out there, bro and I can't see any reason why that would change. well don't get me wrong, i definitely don't think that this world will ever be anything BUT a jungle. i don't expect humanity to all of a sudden become pure and innocent... i agree with the cultural perspective on what is or isn't corruption also, as someone mentioned, and my perspective as to what is or isn't corrupt could possibly be different from someone else just as well. we have rights as free individuals, as free human-beings... and we have laws that protect these rights. across the board i believe, and i think many other people around the globe believe, that the inequality and balance of the powers that be and the people... has come to a tipping point that is not in the favor of freedom and whatever it is you consider to be "equality". many are beginning to say enough is enough, as is apparent in this situation in Egypt. what i am saying is that this is only one aspect of a wider, more broad conflict that is occurring in our world and has been throughout our entire existence... a struggle that is constant and never ending, unfortunately. unless people begin to take a stand and confront that inequality, it will continue to worsen for not only nations dealing with obvious corruption such as dictators or tyrants, but also nations like America, the UK and so called "democratic" nations who claim to be "free". just like many of the articles i've posted in the past, and within this thread have stated... it could possibly lead to future crises that could be devastating to humanity. that is my world view, and i don't believe it's naive... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Decyferon Posted February 5, 2011 Share Posted February 5, 2011 http://uk.news.yahoo.com/5/20110205/twl-egypt-s-mubarak-quits-ruling-party-3fd0ae9.html Egyptian president Hosni Mubarak has resigned as the head of the country's ruling party, according to state TV. It also reports that the party's secretary-general Safwat el-Sharif and Gamal Mubarak, Mr Mubarak's son, have quit as a gesture to anti-government protesters. For 12 days they have been taking part in demonstrations in Cairo and other cities demanding that the embattled president steps down. The 82-year-old, who has been in power for 30 years, has ignored calls to give up the presidency and has previously insisted he intends to serve out the remaining seven months of his term. The popular uprising turned ugly earlier this week with violent street clashes between anti-government demonstrators and pro-Mubarak groups. Earlier, state television reported opposition leaders were meeting with vice-president Omar Suleiman to discuss various proposals that would end in the leader's departure. One option being considered by top officials would see Mr Mubarak remaining in office purely as a figurehead, with real power draining to the vice-presidency. The latest development may be a sign that steps towards such a compromise are being taken behind closed doors - but it is questionable how much weight it might carry with protesters. Many of those gathered in Cairo's Tahrir Square have told Sky News they will only be happy if Mr Mubarak gives up his leadership completely. Friday's "day of departure" saw more than 100,000 demonstrators gathering peacefully in the area. The military have been appealing for protesters to leave the area by Sunday and have put up barricades to prevent others from joining in. Army chiefs, who have been tolerant of the protests of recent days, are thought to be keen for some form of normality to return to the capital after banks and shops were forced to close for days. The upheaval of recent days is estimated to have cost hundreds of millions of pounds and state TV reported Mr Mubarak had held talks with key members of his cabinet about how to revive the economy. Exports from Egypt fell 6% in January due to the unrest, the government has said. Britons continue to flee the country, with a second Foreign Office-chartered flight taking off today from Cairo to London's Gatwick Airport with up to 165 passengers on board. The Foreign Office advises against all but essential travel to Cairo, Alexandria, Luxor and Suez. Earlier, US Secretary of State Hillary Clinton urged Middle East leaders to embrace democratic reforms in response to growing unrest in the region. She told an international security conference in Munich that there was a "perfect storm" which made democratic change a "strategic necessity". US president Barack Obama has called for a "transition period that begins now". He did not explicitly call for Mr Mubarak to step down immediately, but US officials said the administration has decided that Mr Mubarak needs to go soon if the crisis is to end peacefully. Dominic Asquith, British Ambassador to Cairo, said time must be given for talks between opposing groups. He told Sky News: "To get this orderly transition, you will need to yield space for the dialogue that is going on, and you need to be able give the space also to what the president himself, President Mubarak, has been saying about the legitimate demands of the protesters, about new steps for democracy, the peaceful transfer of power." :: Some 1,000 people gathered for a march to the Egyptian embassy in London on Saturday in a show of solidarity to the protesters. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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